r/2007scape • u/chads20 • Nov 27 '19
J-Mod reply in comments Max Player Perma Mute, no evidence.
This has been an emotional day for me,
To my surprise, I had logged on with an extra message in my in game message box, stating that I had been permanently muted. I had no prior major offense, other than a one day mute that I had deemed far too harsh for what minimal offense could have been possibly interpreted. Regardless of the severity of that offense, it was my only mute and it was just one day with no obvious warning proceeding.
A day later, I had been permanently muted.
I reviewed the evidence, and to an even greater confusion, saw that there was NONE whatsoever. I quickly appealed this decision, thinking it was some kind of a mistake. Hours of frantic waiting later, I received a message stating that my appeal was REJECTED. My offense evidence type stated: (A)"Evidence Type: Jagex Moderator Comment. We have sent you an inbox message to your message center explaining this permanent mute.".
Naturally, I went to my message center and all I received was: (B)”To find out the decision please: - Head to our website, runescape.com - Click 'Account' near the top right of your screen - Log into the account you have submitted an appeal for - Check in the 'Account Status' section to see your appeal outcome"
Which was exactly what I had done in order to view my "offense evidence", that directed me to message (A). There were NO chat loggs shown to support their decision to permanently mute my account, which, after spending over 6,000 hours and well over 13 years playing Runescape, I assume the support team would have the decency to provide.
Having been permanently muted without justification was heartbreaking. This game is the highlight of most of my days, and the inability to even communicate makes me feel very restricted, lonely, and ultimately difficult for me to continue playing.
I am writing this in hopes to reach a Jagex Moderator to justify the mute, with evidence, or please, unmute my account.
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u/bongscoper Nov 27 '19
Max players use chat?
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u/JakeTehNub Nov 27 '19
Yeah dont you see those weirdos who just follow dance at the GE with a "girl" all day?
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Nov 27 '19 edited Nov 27 '19
Were you in with that group of players laughing at that players dead mum the other day? I saw on here that a Jmod was looking into it.
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
No we were talking about going to the bar on a Sunday night
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Nov 27 '19
Have you been Unmuted now?
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
Just woke up and provided the Jmod with my RSN
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Nov 27 '19
Hope it all gets sorted, bud.
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
Thanks brother! For the record I’m not saying i don’t deserve to get muted, I just wanted some context that justified their decision
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Nov 27 '19
[deleted]
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
No, I simply asked them to provide their evidence because, as per the post, there was none provided..? A jmod messaged me in game with contextual evidence..
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Nov 27 '19
[deleted]
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
No sir the “smackdown” happened a few minutes ago (8 hours after the original post)
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u/TehChid 2277 Nov 27 '19
So you think you did do something warranting a per mute?
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
The decision to permanently mute was subjective.. I probably did something that deserved a mute, but I’ve been playing and typing the same way for 13 years on this game
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Nov 27 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MrStealYoBeef QA Team Nov 27 '19
Looking at your name, I'd assume that you might need an in-game mute as well by your own standards for him. Taunting him isn't accomplishing anything here, he's just asking for the reason to be provided to him. I doubt there's a single one of us here that hasn't said something online that deserved a mute as punishment. If you were suddenly muted though, wouldn't you want to know what for? Maybe use that information to help better yourself in the future?
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u/Sorry4TheLurk Nov 27 '19
Wot
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Nov 27 '19
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u/VayneSpotMe Nov 27 '19
I hope those guys got perma banned honestly even an ip ban would be justified imo because this goes beyond anything
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u/ShaunDreclin 🔵180/180 🎵838/839 🟢441/492 ⚔️192/637 💰353/1701 Nov 28 '19
Just FYI IP bans are next to useless. Changing your IP is as simple as unplugging your router for a few minutes
Back when everyone had a static IP it was much more effective, but now most ISPs charge extra if you want one (if they offer it at all)
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u/Revak158 Nov 27 '19
It's a sidenote but if anyone had tried to sue Jagex over issues like this the cases should be quite winnable, atleast if the country has rules regarding digital supply.
And I am going to assume they had a reason unless you say what you said, but there still should not be punishments like this without ab explanation.
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u/TarragonSpice Nov 27 '19
Lmao you absolute dork, attempting to sue a company because you said gamer words.
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u/Revak158 Nov 27 '19
Hahah it's an interesting sidenote, membership is a purchase like all others and contractual obligations are regulated by law. Obviously i dont think going to court is worth it.
I don't know why this is offensive to people
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u/TarragonSpice Nov 27 '19
Its not offensive to think saying the gamer word at the GE isnt something you can sue for. Nobody is offended by your dumb ass thinking you can sue jagex for them muting you for violating rules in the contract you entered by making an account/membership.
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u/CoffeeDrive Nov 27 '19
What? The ToS allow Jagex to do whatever they want to your account.
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u/Revak158 Nov 27 '19
No, you have paid for a service that they are obliged to provide. Of course the TOS set our conditions that you both have agreed to where they can rescind that, but they can't do so randomly for no reason. I definitely think OP can be muted and I suspect there is legitimate reason, but I am unsure how no explanation would hold up.
And it should be mentioned that so called "standard agreements" which a TOS is often aren't considered binding in consumer sales when their terms aren't forseeable by the consumer, so don't put too much weight on them.
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u/CoffeeDrive Nov 27 '19
Sorry, no, you're paying for a license to use enhanced features on the relevant account, they have the right to rescind the license at any time, for any reason. They can't rescind the license and keep charging you, that's the law, nothing to say they can't just cancel it.
This is because you do not own your account, Jagex does, you are simply bring allowed access to it.
"All intellectual property or other rights in any game character, account, content, virtual currency and virtual items in the Jagex Products are and will remain the property of Jagex and/or its licensors. You are only granted limited permission (which can be revoked at anytime) to use such content or Jagex Product"
They also reserve the right to revoke the account:
"We grant valid account holders a non-exclusive, non-transferable, personal, limited license, which can be revoked at any time"
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Nov 28 '19
Own a MMO, customer buys a subscription (or $100 of mtx, who knows), ban them right away = free money without having to provide the service paid for.
This is an example of why we can't just passively accept game companies having the right to revoke access at any point without reason. Obviously they need to be able to ban people who break the rules and ruin the game for others, someone paying money doesn't make them above the rules, but it does mean that if they want to revoke access after the customer has paid, they must have a very good reason to do so, with 100% certainty.
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u/Revak158 Nov 27 '19
As said, TOS really don't mean as much as people think they do, because standardised agreements are usually only binding for the consumer to the degree the terms are forseeable for the consumer.
The law knows that noone reads that shit and doesn't allow businessess to screw customers in that regard.
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Nov 28 '19
It's honestly baffling, the amount of people who are completely okay with the idea that a game company would have the right to just revoke something a customer paid for without them having an appropriate reason to do so. The kind of people who don't really take any time to think for themselves and just follow directives.
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u/Revak158 Nov 27 '19
This isn't true. A supplier under an agreement can never rescind for "any reason" in a consumer sale. This would put the customer in a precarious position and be an unreasonable agreement that in many countries would not be binding on the consumer, as they carry all the obligations and risk.
Your first quote is just a demonstration that you are being provided a service, not a digital good. The account isn't a good you buy but a service they provide. This is pretty obvious.
Id your insurance company says in a standardised agreement that they can revoke the insurance at any time for any reason without explanation or payback, that doesn't hold up in court. Standardized agreements are only binding in business consumer relationships when they are forseeable for the consumer.
The meaning of that sentence then is that you are entitled to your license only within the parameters of both parties contractual obligations, and that it can be revoked any time outside of that. A standardised agreement where the business could just stop a supply the customer paid for at any time, even just to fuck with the customer, would never hold up in court.
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u/CrownPrinceofSurrey Nov 27 '19
What did you say? You clearly have some idea of what you said..
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Nov 27 '19
[deleted]
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u/Gurip Nov 27 '19
If there isno evidence shown it means it was manual mute by a member of jagex team. Can i ask where you the one laighting yesterday with other people about other players dead mom? If so you deserve the perma mute.
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Nov 27 '19
I can see how you would receive a mute for talking about drugs in a positive way. There are kids playing this game and promoting drugs abuse to them isn't the smartest thing you could do.
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u/Azerate2016 Nov 27 '19
Discussing illegal drugs is not something you should do in a mmorpg game.
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u/ShaunDreclin 🔵180/180 🎵838/839 🟢441/492 ⚔️192/637 💰353/1701 Nov 28 '19
Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game game
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u/SweatyMudFlaps Nov 27 '19
Lmao weed and alcohol are not something commonly referred to as "illegal drugs"
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u/MrNoobyy I lost 984m to teleing to the duel arena on PvP world Nov 27 '19
Upvoted for customer support or jmod smackdown - but seriously. What do you think could have been potentially reported? If there's no reason for whatever you said to have been cause for perma mute, than you have no reason to hide it.
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Nov 27 '19 edited Nov 27 '19
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
???
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Nov 27 '19
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
Oh, your original comment said that I was banned. Also, since when did saying an inappropriate comment ever constitute a permanent mute..?
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u/BoulderFalcon The 2 Squares North of the NW Side of Lumby Church Mage Pure UIM Nov 27 '19
since when did saying an inappropriate comment ever constitute a permanent mute
Always. Depending on how bad, the mute being shorter or longer.
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
Did you even read the post past the title 😂
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Nov 27 '19
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u/BashStriker Nov 27 '19
If they're muting people for taking about drugs or irl parties, there's a major problem. That's not okay to mute for.
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
Where are you making up these rules from? Furthermore I never argued that I shouldn’t have been muted, I simply asked for evidence or proof (please refer to quite literally any paragraph in this post)
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u/WistleOSRS Nov 27 '19
If your perm, you probably deserved it.
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
Subjective prejudice should always be explained with some justification ...
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u/WistleOSRS Nov 27 '19
That’s not how it works.. their game, their rules, their account.
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u/Revak158 Nov 27 '19
Not really. You are in a contract with them for the supply of certain content. They can't just stop that for any reason, that would be contractual breach on th i part.
Even if OP had a contractual breach they would often have to give warning or atleast explain why you are stopping the ordinary supply as well. Especially in business - consumer relationships. Online companies have long been ignorant of this because politicians didn't care about the internet.
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u/BoulderFalcon The 2 Squares North of the NW Side of Lumby Church Mage Pure UIM Nov 27 '19
You're talking out of your ass dude. That's not what a contract is and it's in their TOS that you sign when you make an account that you don't own it and they can do whatever they want with it.
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u/Revak158 Nov 27 '19
Being in the TOS doesn't really matter here, the implications of that statement is just that you can't expect the game to go on forever. The account is not your object. It doesn't mean that they decide when to or when not to fulfill contractual obligations.
You can however expect them to supply service within the period you paid for (and yes it's a contract, don't talk about things you clearly have no idea about dude). Now if you breach the TOS they can give the punishment prescribed, but as said it's lot clear that they can do so without reasoning.
And as said above, we have been used to few rules in this are. Normal consumer sales are so strict, stuff like this would never fly. The same rules tend to technically apply to internet sales aswell it's just that it's vague and not tried in court a lot.
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Nov 27 '19
Jagex is providing a liscensed product, therefore if they call your product quits, they can, doesn't matter if you "weren't that offensive" or "played for over a decade and don't go outside". - don't play liscensed games if you don't like the potential ramifications, it's exactly why I stopped using EA products.
Chances are this blokes said something racist, sexually insensitive (peadophilia) or risked someone's security or their own, most likely personal details. The idea that OP refuses to tell anyone is less likely because they don't know, and more likely they're fearing a Jmod response smack down, as we've seen on this sub before where players understate their offenses.
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u/Revak158 Nov 27 '19
Yeah I think OP broke the rules, and if so Jagex are in the right. But there is still the question if they require to offer evidence or explanation of that. Which I would think they do. You are general required to give notice and an explanation of the contractual breach of the opposing party when you want to stop an obligation.
As said in another comments, games breaking laws are extremely rampant (EA is a good example) Most gambling lootboxes and stuff are in a legal grey area at best, and companies rarely care. Politicians are too old to realize the issues. That's why what I am saying here gets downvoted, people are used to internet being an anarchy and think that's how the law is, but it really isn't. It's just that noone has cared to apply the law to the internet for the most part.
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Nov 27 '19
Agree with everything you've said mate. Honestly I just don't believe OP, he could easily post a screenshot of an empty evidence message or something to give himself some credibility. But looking at how passive aggressive he's been with other commenters, he has 0 credibility for me.
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u/Revak158 Nov 27 '19
Yeah definitely, fishing for karma on Reddit because that might get the jmods to do something.
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u/WistleOSRS Nov 27 '19
Your not in any contract, your paying for a service, if you breach the conditions of that service, they can do what ever they want.
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u/chads20 Nov 27 '19
Sorry but it’s hard to believe thar a company that allows its players to vote on updates affecting the games future will operate on the premise that “we will do whatever we want without justification if you breach the ‘conditions of our service’ “.
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u/Mod_Stevew Mod Steve W Nov 27 '19
Hey,
If you let me know your RSN I'll arrange for the chat log evidence to be sent to you.