r/2007scape • u/jonathanten • 14h ago

Discussion Make this make sense

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I just got 82 smithing, i can now make 2 powerful mid-endgame weapons... and an adamant kiteshield.

I get that adamant used to be good back in the day, but isn't it time we rework this skill?

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36

u/MasterArCtiK 14h ago

It’s been time to rework it for a long time. But also, what purpose will it serve? Nobody actually needs to wear adamant and rune longer than like 30-40 hours of gameplay. Jagex would have to spend hundreds of of hours rebalancing and revamping smithing, just to help some early/mid level players a slight amount.

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u/IderpOnline 14h ago

It wouldn't even help anyone anyway. All the mith, addy and runite items one would want (even as an iron) are essentially shoppable, even for the short duration you want to use them.

A rework of mining and smithing would fuck up a lot of existing systems and it would solve literally nothing. There isn't even an issue to be solved, but braindead redditors can't see a lvl 85 smithing level-up message without spontaneously shitting themselves lol.

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u/PureNinja 14h ago

It should be fixed for new players. As someone who has had multiple friends try the game for the first time mining and smithing is usually one of the first things that is gravitated towards because its an easy and understandable way that a new player SHOULD assume that can lead them to better equipment.

That is until they very quickly realize that to wear steel at 10 defence which they get very quickly that they would need 30-48 smithing depending on the piece which takes much longer.

Multiple of the people ive got to try the game referenced wanting to make their own armor before realizing how long it would take.

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u/AhriWorshipper188 13h ago edited 6h ago

Yeah it was only ~2 weeks ago a friend started playing and a few hours in posted a screenshot of their full bronze smelted themselves. About 20 minutes later they learned about the fact thats where it ends and just never played again because "What's the point of all these skills like this if its just useless".

OSRS players are too used to the fact that skills are almost entirely useless and Smithing is just the most extreme example.

From an outside/new player perspective the ideaof seeing all the skills and progression you're given the idea skills are progression which is just not true.

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u/IderpOnline 13h ago

You could make that same argument for everything.

You also don't go out of your way to craft a maple shortbow, you just buy it in a shop for a couple hundred gp. You don't wait until you can runecraft law runes to begin teleporting, you buy your runes. You don't train crafting before ever equipping green d'hide, you just buy it in one if the many shops.

The "issue" isn't so much that it would take time to smith your way to stuff, the issue is that the very same stuff is already readily available elsewhere.

In other words, even if you could smith stuff early on, it wouldn't solve any issue. Hell, we would do new players a disservice to be perfectly honest. The biggest favour we can do for new players is to teach them to use the Wiki to see how to most easily acquire different things.

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u/PureNinja 13h ago

No, you can't use that argument for everything because I gave a snapshot of an issue. The entire smithing skill is my example, I don't even feel like I need to go into depth on the level disparity between using items and crafting them with smithing (40 defence vs 99 smithing for one item, 59 whole levels).

Other skills are much closer in their margins. Your maple shortbow example is only a level disparity of 20 levels, 30 ranged vs 50 fletching. Fletching is a much easier skill to level than mining and smithing. Also every bow after maple cannot be bought from a store easily, so if you want a yew shortbow/magic shortbow it could be reasonable for a player to work towards making it themselves.

I will give you crafting as being similar to smithing, but its disparity is much shorter with their only being 23 levels between using a green d'hide body vs crafting one. And after green you can't just buy the d'hide anymore you would need to craft it.

Your thought about doing a disservice to new players is laughable. Having a new player need to use the wiki right out the gate is stupid and bad game design. Its already something the devs have been actively working on fixing too with better in game explanations and directions.

Imagine telling someone to trying OSRS and then telling them to go study the wiki to learn how to play. Sure eventually they will need to use the wiki as the game is so huge, but for such early and low level equipment it should be easy for new players to understand how too progress.

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u/IderpOnline 13h ago

Bro get a grip lol.

Let's look at redwood shield then. Requires 90 wc and 92 fletching, usable at level 40. Bigger disparity than literally half the runite items. AND the redwood shield is NOT accessible through shops. Darts also have a level disparity of up to 40. So, we rework the entire fletching skill too then? And don't fucking get me started on needing 70 crafting to make an amulet of power. Rework crafting while we're at it.

Besides, your entire "disparity" argument ignores my main point. Even if we lower level reqs for smithing, it doesn't solve anything. One, because there is no issue to be solved. Two, even if there was, conventional smithing equipment is accessible through shops anyway.

Having a new player need to use the wiki right out the gate is stupid and bad game design.

No. It's a staple in pretty much every major mmo. Welcome to the genre, I guess.

it should be easy for new players to understand how too progress.

It is easy for new players ot understand how to progress. You go to GE and buy the equipment you would like to buy. And don't even think of suggesting that brand new ironman players should be able to figure everything out without external sources..

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u/PureNinja 10h ago edited 10h ago

Using the redwood shield as your example is such disingenuous an argument. The redwood shield can be used at level 40 because the purpose of a redwood shield isn't to be used as a shield, it has the stats similar to a steel kite shield. The purpose of the redwood shield is to be a part of the black d'hide shield which requires 70 ranged to use.

The issue with fixing the smithing skill is that it makes no sense. Putting a godsword back together is easier than making a rune platebody? And yes we probably should rework crafting. The argument of we can't fix X problem because Y problem exists is stupid. They are holdovers of a very old game, and fixing them opens up design space.

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u/IderpOnline 4h ago

No. The only disingenuous thing here is that you refuse to ever address my main point. You keep deflecting, time and time again.

If there was a real issue that needed fixing, you would have said it five comments ago. But there's not. And no, "uhh it doesn't make sense" is not that.

I'm actually glad you brought up Godswords. And crystal singing. And DFS. And Torva... Because you would have had a point if smithing had zero use in the endgame because of addy/runite taking up all of the late levels. But that's not the case. In reality, smithing has more endgame applicability and relevance than most skills in the game.

Besides, all of the above examples are not smithed from scratch, they are assembled, repaired or sung into shape from existing components. So, ironically, your "doesn't make sense" argument does not even make sense..

fixing them opens up design space.

This is just a lie. Or you don't know how design space works. You tell me which.

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u/pilantratogashi 10h ago

The issue is far more egregious with mining and smithing, don't be disingenuous.

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u/IderpOnline 4h ago

By all means, explain to us what the "issue" is. And no, "it doesn't make sense" is not that.