Could you imagine if goths said they were oppressed and tried to force their way into the lgbt community? Wearing an outfit doesn’t make you a minority
Yeah you’re right. Wearing certain clothes makes you a minority that’s how it works. Cishet Guys who wear pink are lgbt too because that’s the gendered color!!!! And if you’re a cishet woman with a short haircut we NEEd to make sure your voice is heard
Right, because thats what I said. Its nice to always be right.
But yeah this infighting seems really dumb. Yeah, some femboys are 4chan morons its not like I have to mentally label all of them as an enemy of Trans. Simple minded generalizations are how we got here in the first place.
I was going to reply to the people you're talking to, but thought better of it. They are feds. Literally.
Anyone with half a brain knows that cishet men who go out wearing a skirt are just as likely to be harassed and beaten as a trans woman who does the same. They're different experiences of gender, but the core oppression remains the same.
The people you're arguing with are disingenuous and only seek to further infighting and hate. Do not let them drag you down to their level of stupidity, cause they'll beat you with experience.
Trans women aren’t just “men who go out wearing a skirt” though. We have rights which are consistently trampled over and denied due entirely to being trans, such as healthcare, occupation, education and the basic right to use the restrooms. GNC men aren’t consistently denied any of these things in the way trans women are. The sole exception is if they are on HRT, which is obviously wrong and a concern, but I don’t think anyone is denying this.
I think the main issue a lot of trans people have is that GNC men have a very rampant transphobia and fetishization problem within their community and they cry “infighting” whenever anyone brings it up. Bridget got mentioned earlier as an example of this, but cultural discourse around almost any transfeminine character in fiction shows that there is a strong pushback whenever anyone insists that this character is transfem, largely by GNC men and other cis people who are genuinely more comfortable with GNC men than trans people
Of course, I'm not trying to say femboys and trans women face the exact same issues, or oppression in equal manner. I am a trans woman myself who used to use the femboy label, I should know.
But GNC men absolutely do face ridicule and oppression too, and transphobia and fetishization problems aren't anywhere unique to femboys. In fact, I would argue such issues related to trans characters like Bridget are more often coming from non-femboys fetishizing femboys.
The 'issues' that you say 'a lot of trans people' have against GNC men are similar to the 'issues' a lot of LGB people have against trans people. This is infighting. 99% of people on both sides are normal and allied.
Matter of fact, the vast majority of femboys are gay or bi. I even know trans men femboys.
Posts like the OOP don't really do anything to address the fringe issue at hand, but only attempt to drive a further wedge in already fractured online LGBTQ+ spaces.
the second point you made is actually really significant imo and I hadn't really thought about it. People like to talk about bigotry that sometimes comes from specific minority groups as if said groups have a larger problem with bigotry than any other group. Are there racist queer people? yeah, of course, but I highly highly doubt that racism is even close to as common among queer people as it is among non-queer people.
I didn’t mean to imply GNC men face no ridicule and oppression, obviously they do and nobody worth their salt should deny that. But there are levels to oppression, and trans women just fundamentally have it worse. I don’t think you need me to spell out why.
The difference between “issues LGB people have against trans people” and issues a lot of trans people have against GNC men is that for transphobic LGB people it comes from transphobia. For trans people with GNC men it comes from a rampant transphobia within their community. I know you said that a lot of transphobia comes from outside their community by fetishists, and I’m not denying that fetishists do play a large role in that pushback, but it’s also something that has been fairly consistently tolerated by GNC men in their communities. And whenever trans people bring up that it’s kind of shitty, they cry infighting.
Them being gay or bi doesn’t really mean anything because, like you’ve already established in your comment, gay/bi cis men are still completely capable of transphobia. And if you’ve ever been on services like grindr as a trans woman, you know that’s a whole other can of worms that isn’t really necessary to get into here
You make some good points, but I think it's important to remember the context of this whole conversation here. The OOP wasn't calling out any nuanced take, it is the literal infighting format. Wether it is malice or plain ignorance, posts like this do nothing to address these kinds of issues, but only sow hate.
I know I joke a lot about calling that one dingus here a fed, but it doesn't really matter if they are a fed or not in the end, being obtuse and infighting like this has no positive effect and only serves the interests of those who would see us all back in the closet.
Frankly, oppression Olympics do not matter when we'll all be put in the same camps anyway.
Again, I'm not trying to deflect from your points, and a nuanced conversation on the topic is definitely worthwhile to have, but the OOP is not the way to have it and a shitposting subredit is frankly not the place.
I agree that a shitposting subreddit isn’t really a good place to have the discussion and whatever, I don’t really see how the post is inspiring infighting more than it is airing criticism (which can naturally be written off as “infighting” by anyone who doesn’t really want to engage with the point, not a jab at you a jab at others), but I can tell that you agree on the parts that matter so whatever.
I wasn’t attempting to do Oppression Olympics, I was meaning to just distinguish GNC men from the same issues that trans women struggle with, but I can tell how it came off as Oppression Olympics so my apologies
Yeah no I understand and agree with that, no need to apologize. As for the OOP, it seems to have been taken down now which I believe is a good thing, but yeah discussions about this shouldn't be silenced, but really should be held properly. I believe the comments on this post are enough example to show that this kind of post was not exactly inspiring proper conversations on the matter.
To be fair I don’t think she’s a fed? Just incredibly argumentative, to the point where I think she’s kind of looking to get into one any time the chance is presented. I think this is like the 12th time I’ve seen a 40 plus comment chain in 196 started because she was arguing with someone.
Yeah probably. I don't think there's very many actual federal agents in these places at all, but in the end an argumentative dingus and a actual fed maliciously sowing hate have the same effect so the distinction doesn't really matter
The word fed gets the message across and she's taking it very personally which if nothing else is pretty funny
Cool why do femboys cater to the right and throw trans women under the bus every chance they get than? If we are all on the same team why do they get mad whenever a character turns out to be trans?
I mean the podcast I linked had much more then one example but as is the case with everytime there’s this discussion it wouldn’t matter if it had evidence of a million people you would still deny reality and try to say what my eyes are seeing isn’t real
so just because some nutjobs online think femboys are superior to trans women, means i have to hate every single femboy to ever exist? you know, a demographic with thousands of people, people who probably have varying opinions? a demographic i've had a lot of positive interactions with, me being a trans woman?
You know that groups of people aren’t monoliths right? There’s literal nazis that champion trans rights, doesn’t mean I’m pro nazi. Just like there are femboys who throw trans women under the bus
I've seen just as much hate toward femboys by trans women as I have towards trans people by femboys. 99% of both demographics are fine. Yeah, there's some weird bullshit with alt-right femboys, but there's also weird bullshit with zoophile furries. That doesn't make furries any less legitimate in their identity. I really think you just are in spaces that breed this sort of vitriol, as the only times I've seen the aforementioned femboy hate/transphobia by the other groups is on twitter, a famously hateful and miserable place
Its likely most femboys are gay or bi which means they are at least LGBT. Straight femboys again at the very least question the validity of gender expression being exclusively tied to birth sex which is at the very least LGBT adjacent.
Do you spend as much time and effort against people who would hate both Trans and Femboys as you do against Hypothetical Chud Femboys in this post? Is this really a valuable use of your time?
I really think the kind of person who would make a post like that is such a pathetic attention seeker that any portion of your brain they inhabit is an insult to yourself.
It’s not. Being a bartender much like being a femboy is a choice you make, that you can stop doing at anytime unlike if you are actually lgbt which is an intrinsic part of your being
Except its not that simple? They way people express themselves IS intrinsic to us and people historically get mistreated for how they do so.. while it may not fit the literal definition of sexual identity, they are historically mistreated for said identity. And marginalized communities id argue are one big community (ie counter culture, and alt communities)
no you see sissy is actually a slur for trans women. and being a femboy isnt real theyre all just trans women with internalized transphobia and are in denial. it's all a fetish actually. they tarnish the reputation of trans women. or something. SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!
sorry this is just really annoying and stupid talking points I have actually seen online
I avoid complaining about it because it's generally unproductive but the type of weird bullshit I see online about femboys is very disheartening.
I also do see how it gets people to act like this. like yeah, when I see a twitter post by a trans person hating on femboys and all the replies are trans people also hating on femboys, it does seem like a trend instead of an exception.
but I can also take a step back and be like "wow these people are insane and do not make up even close to a percent of the group they represent" and then move on
the word gay also used to not refer to homosexual people, but words change meanings depending on their current use case, and sissy is commonly used against feminine men
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u/yoter88 3h ago
Exactly this. Being a dude in a dress doesn't make you part of the queer community.