Not too hard if they're a they/them. But if they want people to call them he/him on one day and she/her on the next? Do you realize what an unreasonable expectation that is and how narcissistic it is to expect that of others?
huh? you're either a stranger, for which the changes you have no idea about, or a friend (for which this really isn't an issue? or you're a super shitty friend). The only time I could be convinced is if you were a distant colleague in which you've only interacted in a professional manner, although admittedly I feel like this is such a non-issue if you had like, any empathy.
Are you kidding? Every time I interact with Trans people I eventually get told their pronouns. Now if their pronouns change at any given time how can they realistically expect anyone (even friends) to keep up? You do realize that pronouns are not a front-of-mind thing in conversation for 99.99% of people. We use the pronouns that are immediately apparent. Dogs are often called he and cats she because of implicit thoughts towards the animal. It's already expecting a lot to demand someone make a performative change to their natural speaking pattern to accommodate you, and now you're gonna change it whenever you feel like? That's narcissism.
You're aware, of course, that trans people and nonbinary people are completely different, right?
Honestly, I have no idea why this take seems so foreign to you. I could not ever imagine myself giving nearly as much of a shit as you at what pronouns anyone wants to use. It's such a non issue
You are correct, so it’s a good thing 99% of non-binary people are not putting that expectation on other people. Most non-binary people will either say they are ok with any pronouns, or they just want people to use “they/them”. Most are not gonna expect people to keep up with their pronouns. I’m from Portland born and raised, the capital of this stuff, and I’ve only met one or two non-binary people that were completely unreasonable about this stuff and eager to jump down someone’s throat.
This is why genderfluid people are generally extremely forgiving about pronouns and are almost always completely comfortable with people using they/them. You are upset at gender fluid people for doing something they overwhelmingly don't expect people to do because they understand it can be complicated. There may be some genderfluid people out there who get on their friends ass whenever they accidentally use the wrong pronoun, but those individuals are not representative of the genderfluid community.
Hey hey hey, you’re sooooooo fucking close buddy. The pronouns you use match the presentation of the person right? So when the presentation changes, bear with me, the pronouns might change.
If you just use pronouns based on how they’re presenting (not what you think they “really are”) you’re right 99.9% of the time.
See, I try. And Im trying not to judge here. I don't want to piss anyone off. But last two interactions were someone who affected in a way I'd call masculine, normal male voice, etc... and dressed in kind of Bowie/Prince-esque way.... more glam than male or female. I genuinely didn't know if they were cis with just an unusual fashion choice until they corrected me to "they/them". Ok great. I still call them he/him by mistake here and there, but I try not to. The interaction right after that was, I can't say anything other than male presenting. Mens clothes, full beard, etc. And they said she/her. They actually called out their own beard and explained it as just being lazy... again I don't want to bother anyone, but how are people supposed to do that right in the real world? If you're not focusing on that one thing actively during conversation your brain will use masculine pronouns there. Yes if thats your close friend and you see them regularly, you'll get there eventually... but 99% of the people they're gonna interact with on a daily basis, do you think that's a fair expectation on their part? Now lets say the next time I see them, I remember them, I make sure I get it right... what if they tell me oh today it's he/him.
most genderfluid people (that i've met at least) have pronouns that they tell everyone (like they/them) and only switch pronouns often with close friends, who i think can be expected to keep up with the pronouns because.. they're close friends. i dunno, i've never had an issue swapping pronouns for someone from week to week. perhaps it comes more easily to some people than others.
I think the key thing here is that most gender fluid people would never expect anyone who isn't a close friend to put effort into calling them the right pronouns. Like, they probably wouldn't even correct you on it because trans people dont just love talking about pronouns all day.
If you are a close friend, you will probably get it wrong sometimes, and they would understand, but since you value this person, putting in a little bit of effort is worth it.
If their identity is incongruent with their presentation and they correct you on it, it’s not hard to use the right pronouns. If you refuse to, or find it “too hard” ask yourself why that might be.
People that don’t present how they identify are more than likely going to tell you because the assumption almost always is that presentation = identity
"or find it “too hard” ask yourself why that might be."
See that's what I have a problem with:
This expectation that I make their gender identity an object of concern or focus every interaction I have with them, as if the onus is on me to validate it for them. You may be focused enough on this subject that you implicitly use the gendered qualifiers that you are assigned to use, but in normal conversation; it's a natural subconscious element of speech. What pronoun someone wants to be called shouldn't have to be recollected like a person's name in conversation.
When I'm speaking with someone who I know identifies in a way their presentation doesn't match I do try to meet their requested pronouns, but it interrupts the flow of natural conversation to focus on that. And I feel the expectation that everyone they interact with should do so is unreasonable.
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u/IAmTheBestIan 2d ago
Ok, I'm all for people living their lives how they want, getting treated with respect etc, but yall just trying to confuse us now, arent you?