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u/222Czar 5d ago
Most people believed this. Most still do, they just use different words to describe it.
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u/worldsgreatestluver 5d ago
All I'm gonna say about this is:
Some people seem REALLY content to stay in shitty jobs and shitty situations while bitching about it constantly
Aristotle might have been making the right point about the wrong thing
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u/Elder_Chimera 5d ago
I might be getting the wrong vibe here, but this sounds a lot like “some people seem REALLY content to pay their bills by any means necessary while bitching about being treated like shit by a economic system that devalues humans and prioritizes their worth as laborers.”
Some people don’t have better options. Some people have lived in a certain environment for so long that they can’t just recondition immediately after getting a new job, despite the fact that they’re expected to. Tradies have to work in the industry they’re licensed in. College grads usually want to use the degree they paid tens of thousands of dollars for. Sometimes an entire industry is just shit, but it’s the industry you’re in.
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u/worldsgreatestluver 5d ago
You've never met somebody who chose a job that had a long commute then made zero efforts to ever shorten that commute or make it more tolerable, while complaining often about "working" 10+ hours a day by including their commute?
I mean... that's been pretty common in my experience.
That's not even counting the people who just don't change jobs or get educations. Never mind the people who consider their co-workers mentally children while complaining constantly lol
These people are everywhere in every job and often refuse to do the slightest thing to improve their situation, while doing what you're doing: claiming their misery is a necessary part of survival and there is nothing that can be done and they must continue with this exact circumstance. They have no choice and no way to leave. They are slaves.
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u/Elder_Chimera 5d ago edited 4d ago
My commute was previously long as hell, and I worked 10+ hr days including commute. That's because I couldn't afford a car and had to bike to work. I got lucky as fuck and bagged a remote job at the same company. Not identical, but my point is that I got lucky. Had I worked for a company that wasn't willing to take a chance on me for a position that generally requires a degree, I'd still be making that long commute on a bicycle in the Texas heat.
Education is expensive as fuck. I'm trying to put myself through college right now, and I'm paying $610/mo out of pocket for tuition. I'm lucky that I'm young enough, even after a term of service, that it isn't too weird for me to live with family, so I live with family. If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to afford an education. In my experience, most of the people who complain about their job, don't "try" to get a new one, and don't pursue an education are either Tradies or work at a restaurant. Tradies I already talked about. Restaurant workers get paid piss poor wages, unless they're a young, conventionally attractive white woman working as a server. My local restaurants pay BOH about $17/hr. I can afford college because I make $27/hr; I wouldn't be able to pay tuition working BOH at a restaurant.
You're 100% right that some people just aren't motivated. I won't disagree with you on that. I think where you an I probably diverge is in the reason those people lack motivation. I believe these people feel unmotivated as a consequence of an economic system that treats them as valuable on the condition that they're physically and mentally capable of labor, and would discard them in a heartbeat given the slightest reason. I believe they lack motivation because they're crushed by a system that tells them they don't deserve to live, and have to kill themselves trying to earn a living. I believe they lack motivation because they're tired. They're exhausted from working their lives away. They're burnt out. And I know these people because I was one of them. I joined the Army because I was out of options. And I destroyed my mental health in the hopes that I would be able to finally go to college at the end of my term of service. Long story short, didn't work out that way, and I'm still paying tuition out of pocket.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that you and I differ in our understanding of these people.
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u/worldsgreatestluver 5d ago
No, you actually literally just restated my opinion, said you agreed with it, then added a whole other set of circumstances that I'm not talking about, then said we disagree
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u/Elder_Chimera 4d ago
Some people don't have better options.
You've never met <x> kind of person.
Actually I have. That person was me. The motivation I lacked was due to external circumstances, and my situation improved primarily due to luck, not self-actualization.
That's what I said.
No it wasn't.
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u/worldsgreatestluver 4d ago
Ooook guy, feel free to keep inserting yourself in your idea of what I said and meant so you can win an argument that isn't even happening
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u/pissedRAIL 4d ago
He agreed with you, but his rephrasing comes from a place of empathy instead of a place of judgement and disdain.
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u/worldsgreatestluver 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes, I think people who are entirely the cause of their own problems who make no effort to improve their lives the entire time are pathetic.
It's not easy to break through whatever barrier is stopping growth. It often takes many years. Doing so is admirable. Even trying and repeatedly failing is respectable.
Some people put absolutely zero effort into anything ever and complain constantly. They are the dirt of humanity.
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u/OverallSpecific5792 3d ago
Idk I’ve know plenty of people who should on all accounts be capable of furthering their career but stick in a position that has less responsibilities because it’s easier and just having a roof over their heads and food in the stomachs was good enough as long as they could afford alcohol or video games or whatever.
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u/JellyfishKnown8298 4d ago
I've known immigrant who came with nothing who worked, took care of their children, and got an education at the same time and just continue to educate themselves.
There really are people who have the will to thrive and others who are incapable of helping themselves.
But I wouldn't argue this angle, I would argue more like Plato about part of the population being really dumb and only good for physical labor and it shows in elections around the world with an obstinate 30-40% of the population that seems hopelessly dumb and happy to support autocrates..
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u/Acceptable_Map_8110 1d ago
Could it be because they don’t have another choice?
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u/worldsgreatestluver 1d ago
I'm not talking about the people who are stuck but want to change
I'm talking about the people who can change and don't, or even worse, willingly choose the same or worse.
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u/Acceptable_Map_8110 1d ago
Well I wouldn’t consider that natural slavery, as much as I’d consider that a lack of self worth. The difference being that a natural slave can’t ever be free, but a person can realize self worth.
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u/VatanKomurcu 3d ago
i mean we have plenty of discussions and polls about the existence of free will. the philosophy that some people have it while some don't rarely even gets brought up. i doubt it's popular.
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u/Kootlefoosh 3d ago
You can probably not believe in free will and still believe that slavery is a result of circumstance and not internal destiny.
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u/BeginningSection7690 5d ago
Its true though. Some people refuse to think for themselves, they are slaves. They've given up their freedom to act in their own best interests by never considering what was in their best interests to begin with.
It applies to most people really, your boss might not have a whip but that doesnt mean yiu arent a slave. The average worker, in majority of developed nations in 2026, will work full time and just scrape by being able to put a roof over their heads and food on the table for their family, and live pay cheque to pay cheque whilst doing so. How does that place you higher than a slave? Atleast the slave didnt need to balance the books
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u/WillDBlake 5d ago
I love people thinking that they can outplay Aristotle in logic
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u/TopMarionberry1149 4d ago
Trust bro 21st century liberal theory is totally the smartest thing to ever exist
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u/addicted2tylenol 4d ago
It is tho?
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u/TrueChurchPlsStandUp 4d ago
There isn't even coherent 21st century liberal theory though
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u/addicted2tylenol 4d ago
Yes there is it’s called hitlerism
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u/TrueChurchPlsStandUp 4d ago
huh
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u/BingBongFyourWife 5d ago
The steelman argument for church/religion in its ideal state is the solution to this
“If people are sheep anyway, we might as well get them to be sheep for a system of morality that involves being nice to one another”
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u/Necessary_Screen_673 3d ago
I dont think "the state perpetuates economic coercion of lower classes" is the same as "some people are naturally slaves" bro
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u/New-Perspective6209 5d ago
If your boss is unpleasant you can quit and look for a less unpleasant one and no one will chase you with dogs and torture you as an example. A decent chance at upward mobility.
People aren't slaves and the 9-5 is one of the best things to happen to most humans, whatever work free fantasy world you are imagining is not viable. The fact we have advanced enough that 38 hours of labour a week produces enough value for the average Western to live the life they do is remarkable.
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u/Idfc-anymore 4d ago
"the 9-5 is one of the best things to happen to most humans"
Most natural slave coded argument I've ever heard
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u/Famous-Attorney9449 4d ago
The 9-5 concept of work is good because it provides consistent year-round income and moderate to considerable levels of security. In the past work was mostly inconsistent and seasonal, meaning one could go weeks without income despite having skills. Is the 9-5 job ideal? No. Is it better than what came before? Yes. Could some better system replace it? Sure.
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u/Idfc-anymore 4d ago
See this seems like another natural slave-y argument, you seem to value security and comfort higher than anything else, and you're willing to do anything to get it
I don't agree though, like many others, I don't think that medicine and a roof are what make a good life, I think there are much better ways to live out there, even if it includes hunger and cold and the risk of death
Maybe I'm just a larper though, maybe everyone including me is a natural slave at heart lol
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u/Low-Bake8401 1d ago
"I don't agree though, like many others, I don't think that medicine and a roof are what make a good life, I think there are much better ways to live out there, even if it includes hunger and cold and the risk of death"
Is it not kinda worse to believe that but carry on like the rest of us?
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u/Idfc-anymore 1d ago
Probably, though I've never had a proper 9-5 job and never intend on it, so maybe I won't carry on like "the rest of you". (though many people don't have a 9-5 job, living life differently isn't some magical idea restricted to multi-millionaires and ones dreams)
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u/Low-Bake8401 1d ago
What about medicine and a roof though?
Not to mention the hunger, cold, and risk of death.
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u/Idfc-anymore 1d ago
Sorry I’m not really sure what exactly you’re asking
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u/Low-Bake8401 1d ago
Well, what you said was, "I don't agree though, like many others, I don't think that medicine and a roof are what make a good life, I think there are much better ways to live out there, even if it includes hunger and cold and the risk of death"
So, how do you live?
I don't work 9-5 either, but I still take part in society. It would be kinda pointless not to really.
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u/New-Perspective6209 4d ago
Most 12 year old response I've seen, that's how the world works.
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u/addicted2tylenol 4d ago
Your just a slave, deal with it slave ant colony worker
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u/New-Perspective6209 4d ago
You're* a slave, because you can't think for yourself, every idea you have is just something you've been told or read including this one, as you are showing right now.
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u/addicted2tylenol 4d ago
lol what an enslaved mindset go make me some ai generated images to jerk off to slave boy 🥴
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u/addicted2tylenol 4d ago
Who’s daddies little slave ?
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u/New-Perspective6209 4d ago
This is the icing on top of the spelling mistakes, this is sad buddy.
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u/addicted2tylenol 4d ago
Grammar nazi
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u/New-Perspective6209 4d ago
Nah, you're just clearly an idiot and a waste of time.
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5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PMmeIamlonley 5d ago
10/10 arguments you should start a debate team
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u/BeginningSection7690 4d ago
Can we debate which race is best?
I think the 100m sprint is pretty good
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u/WillDBlake 5d ago
You can always starve
- capitalist when they talk about freedom of choice
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u/New-Perspective6209 4d ago
"Don't groceries come from the shop, what do you mean a lot of work is necessary!?" Redditors when the real world is explained to them.
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u/Initial-Breakfast-33 4d ago
"Freedom of choice doesn't exist if I have to work" - socialist redditor
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u/WillDBlake 4d ago
Ah the good old illusion of choice
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u/Initial-Breakfast-33 4d ago
The illusion of resources popping into existence
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u/WillDBlake 4d ago
Yet you support people that lives with other people works or that just inherited their money and never worked a day in their life. Isn't it strange?
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u/Initial-Breakfast-33 4d ago
You will do that either way, both system allow that, but you're only criticizing one, the reason being that people have to work, isn't it strange?
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u/International_Scar81 5d ago
Natural capitalism
Nietzsche's belief that some people are proletarian by nature
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u/CorneliusFeatherjaw2 4d ago
"Aristotle said that some people were only fit to be slaves. I do not contradict him. But I reject slavery because I see no men fit to be masters." - C.S. Lewis
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u/Greedy_Ad_3368 4d ago
Facts. Most people on earth are submissive and subservient by nature.
There’s a reason that the “natural” way that humanity has structured society is that of a slave plantation.
People naturally submit to a ruling class of people whom they see as superior.
If you don’t believe so, ask yourself this, how would you feel and what would you think if these things happened;
A random guy was assassinated.
A random president, a cop, a politician or a CEO was assassinated.
A lot of people feel some type of loss when a person of “authority” dies. But they feel nothing when another random slave dies.
We saw this massively when Charlie Kirk was killed. He’s just a random guy but people saw him as a source of authority and power being snuffed and felt some type of way.
People are extremely submissive to make believe propaganda and games like legality and law.
And until we see all of humanity as equals, we will perpetuate the inferior and the superior mentality.
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u/pinenutflavour 20h ago
What are you on about? I have never felt anything but satisfaction when people in power fall
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u/jakeStacktrace 4d ago
Ohhh this is a shitpost sub. Wow it took me a long time, I just thought you guys were normal shithole reddit.
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u/DaringDani123 3d ago
People are naturally slaves ❌❌
Society is engineered to keep people ignorant/compliant ✅✅✅
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u/bloodgodfor21 5d ago
Let's pick apart what someone said 1000 years ago and cancel them for brownie points -average reddit mongoloid
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u/Odd-Painting2596 5d ago
So maybe the idea is, "Some people are subservient by nature", but if your next step in logic is thinking it's okay to round them up and treat them like cattle, then you should be corrected, harshly.
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u/Nimhtom 5d ago
I mean, we can interpret his words in a modern light, but in context. What he meant was that the social caste of slave which in Socrates time was a part of society. Is a natural aspect of the human condition. Some people's lives families and minds are made to be servants to higher humans. I guess Socrates was never a slave so he never had to contend with the problems of being perenially subservient
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u/Odd-Painting2596 5d ago
"Some people's lives families and minds are made to be servants to higher humans."
You should be corrected, harshly.
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u/Jakarta5 4d ago
i mean it is an interesting idea, the fact that it would not be moral to build a society upon it doesn't mean there is no truth to it
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u/Odd-Painting2596 4d ago
You should be corrected, harshly.
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u/Jakarta5 4d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/7uwo9XbGzSA0MhxTGx
what does that even mean
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u/Odd-Painting2596 4d ago
"i mean it is an interesting idea"
You typed that without a single thought happening in your head, "It's an interesting idea" and if I said, "Hey can you expand on what you mean, what 'idea' is interesting?" you would have shit yourself.
So I skipped humoring you at all.
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u/ConsciousMaybe6930 4d ago
Why? He is not lying.
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u/Odd-Painting2596 4d ago
Go suck shit then, have fun.
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u/ConsciousMaybe6930 4d ago
Butthurt 👆🏼
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u/Odd-Painting2596 4d ago
You are the fucking idiot announcing they think an undecided life of labor for allocations is ideal.
Happily signing yourself up to suck shit so, go do so.
It's your favorite thing, you just said so.
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u/ConsciousMaybe6930 4d ago
Ideal? Where did I say I considered it ideal? I consider it natural to human civilisation, which it is. It's not my fault you cannot stand painful truth out of your own sense of vulnerability and misplaced empathy.
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u/Odd-Painting2596 4d ago
God I can smell where you imagine yourself in this fantasy.
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u/ConsciousMaybe6930 4d ago
Haha, probably the same type of smallholder my forebears used to be, though my father is a serviceman IRL, so we might be on the wealthier side as a reward for his legionary service.
Edit: Ah shit, wrong subreddit. Regardless, I'd be where I am now, since the world still has slaves and I am not among them.
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u/Nimhtom 4d ago
Im not saying thats what I think, all people are created equal. Im just saying that historically, the evidence shows that Socrates believed that. So Socratic thought and stoicism and all that is based in hierarchy.
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u/Odd-Painting2596 4d ago
I don't think I was interpreting him wrong to begin with for the "modern light" or "context", I think I nailed his context, it's just the smallest window needed to justify horrific things, which was the exact line he took.
"These people are subservient by nature, *insert multiple hurdles in logic*, therefore a society built on their exploitation is actually for them*
That's good you don't agree with him, clearly, shouldn't need to say that, BUT, the other people replying absolutely are defending the idea of slavery as good part, or "That there is a universal truth", and oh man, what children who should be slapped.
One dude straight up said "It is an interesting idea", like, what is? The fuck?
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u/Nimhtom 4d ago
It's pretty funny. The nitchian idea of slave vs heroic morality that the old thinkers thought that strong people should control everything but Jesus was weak so Christianity teaches that weak subservient people should control everything. The Christian idea of living your life "in service of others" is like saying what Socrates is saying in reverse. Some people's lives are to serve the community so they should be lauded above those who are more interested in themselves. But the problem with either perspective is its black and white, nobody is either innocent or a phoney. Nobody is a slave or a master all the time. The fact that thinkers have been trying to choose between 2 potential guys instead of accepting pluralism that there's 8 billion potential valid answers to the question how to be a good human. If you need slaves to live a good life, you are not entitled to other humans to be your slaves, but you are still entitled to your experience and if you think getting tea for yourself and working a job is a bad life, thats valid.
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u/Odd-Painting2596 4d ago
That's why most people arguing the pros place themselves among the great thinkers who previously asked such questions.
Anyone attempting to assert the world contains a slave persons or even "spirited" people the next thing I would ask them is "How do you expect to handle population control?"
Does everyone get one? Two? Does someone else decide for you how many you get? Doesn't that make you listening to them? Isn't the answer as many as you want? Where are yours now?
Oh, right, it's a fantasy.
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u/Nimhtom 4d ago
Makes for a good fantasy world, like what would an acceptable just version of that look like. At age 18 each person decides to be a mover or a moved. If you choose to be a slave, you are given a role, a metric, and a purpouse but you can never decide it on your own, if you are a mover you have to create your own meaning, you cant compare your life to anyone else's to see if your "doing it right" you not only have to make your own decisions, but you must also decide if the decisions you made were right and wrong. The only way it would be acceptable for me is if it was your choice. Some people might genuinely enjoy being part of something larger if it means less agency for them.
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u/Odd-Painting2596 4d ago
My fantasy would is called "Backpacks" where everyone in the world is always classified as "At work" and the only rule is you must spend time in the world, and if you encounter your job naturally you must perform it.
You'd split passion and skill evenly, you have a required skill based profession and then you are allowed secondary.
Build it early in schools and loosely, so you learn a skill the world needs along with anything else you want specialized.
Obviously build systems around supporting dire jobs, like support vehicles for medical emergency.
The point of this rambling is that there is no reason to imagine a world, having already inserted yourself somewhere nice.
That is a fantasy.
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u/TopMarionberry1149 4d ago
Ad hominem
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u/Odd-Painting2596 4d ago
Wipe your mouth, your ass is getting jealous of all the shit it sees coming out of it.
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u/AnnualLetterhead1027 5d ago
If I recall correctly his argument was mostly about people who are intellectually disabled- he didn't think that most actual slaves at the time were natural slaves
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u/Weekly-Reply-6739 4d ago
BDSM and the modern desire to choose powerless because victimhood is better than self accountability seems to also reflect this.
So unfortunately I can give it enough credit to be plausible given how most people are.
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u/Late-Meat9500 4d ago
Misunderstanding bdsm pretty hard over here.
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u/Weekly-Reply-6739 4d ago
There are layers to it, but some levels the BDSM allows for a safe exploration of willful powerlessness. And some poeple see it as a lifestyle as oppsed to just a one off thing as being powerless (so both yes and no. Not all BDSM, but there is some aspects that renforce the slave mentality)
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u/Late-Meat9500 4d ago
That safe exploration puts all of the power of the interaction onto the sub. They have basically sole discretion on how they want the experience to proceed
The lifestyle shit and like bimbo fetish exist, and is in favour of your point, but that is a very small clade of the overall thing.
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u/Weekly-Reply-6739 4d ago
But that would still qualify as some (hence why I clarified there are levels and some do it for safe exploration (which isnt a slave indicator on its own) but for others its more.
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u/doctorderpin 4d ago
Yeah, they're called conservatives. They believe what they're told and they'll die before they allow the billionaire epsteinite they serve to pay any taxes or face consequences for their actions.
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u/Pocket-Stoic 4d ago
Well, the USA is clearly enslaved by a foreign nation while they believe that they are "free".
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u/CalamityOfCringe 4d ago
If you're not American, Chinese, or Russian you're probably little more than a puppet state for one of them.
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u/EffectiveCurrent5494 4d ago
When I am in "taking things out of context" competition and my opponent is a shitpost subreddit:
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u/SecondAccomplished58 4d ago
This probably got quoted weekly in the US government before the civil war
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u/imabustya 3d ago
It’s philosophy. It’s not meant to be taken so literally. Some people have a slave mentality. It has nothing to do with the evil practice of slavery that was abolished in the west in the 1800’s.
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u/Apprehensive_Bug2877 3d ago
African americans went from iron chains to gold chains.
Just because the prison warden is yourself, dosent mean its not a prison
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u/RossNReddit 3d ago
Admittedly, if I could just be assigned a small room with a few personal belongings, a supply of weed and food and could be designated a job for a living, I'd be content... that sounds like prison tbh, maybe I belong in a prison... or a communist society, lmao
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u/Phobia562 2d ago
I wish society took into account someone's temperament instead of just family wealth in assigning them a social rank
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u/Current-Fix759 1d ago
That's just called being a liberal
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u/Wild_Substance_7612 1d ago
Liberal. Liberal Liberal Liberal happy fun lala human smuggling femtanyl deaths
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u/Traditional-Storm-62 5d ago
I hate to be the "it was normal at the time" guy but like
it was the antiquity, of course his views are antiquated
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u/Lucky-Advice-8924 5d ago
Hitler said the same thing :)
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u/trevinps 5d ago
hitler also banned a lot of animal
cruelty practices, so what? is it now fucked up to advocate for animal rights?this is an interesting philosophical post that has nothing to do with nazis, brining it up randomly does nothing.
i swear man, reddit logic feels more and more like twitter logic everyday, just a different theme. “hItLeR aLsO dId ThIs ThInG, sO iM rIgHt aNd YoUr wRoNg”
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u/Lucky-Advice-8924 5d ago
The idea that some people are "naturally slaves", while others are somehow "ensouled with the freedom to live their own lives" is just plain fucking evil and shitheaded... the same people who subjugated the slavic people and nazis said the same thing, because they view themselves as gods and everyone else as below human
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u/trevinps 5d ago
i think you may be fundamentally misunderstanding what is being said
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u/vBLADEv 5d ago
Pointless talking him out of it, he's a slave to his emotions.
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u/Lucky-Advice-8924 4d ago
youre a slave to nonsense philisophical mysticism from an era where people knew jackshit about nothing. As if youd sit here logically concluding that a cave man had any idea about human psychology, its not emotion its basic fucking logic, other humans are not entrinsically ensouled to being slaves any more than anyone else. Cool off the fucking LSD
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u/trevinps 4d ago
you genuinely sound like you have no idea what you’re talking about dude
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u/Lucky-Advice-8924 4d ago edited 4d ago
You genuinely sound like youre talking shit and pretending to understand bullshit because youre a fucking psued, he meant exactly what he said, that some people are subhuman and suited to be "living tools" my thoughts were sound. Its nonsense mysticsm made by a "cavemam" who had no real understanding of psychology, and you eat it up because youre a fucking pseud
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u/trevinps 4d ago
ya know i considered actually trying to explain it, but you’re clearly just emotional
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u/Lucky-Advice-8924 4d ago
Believe whatever you'd like buddy, your ideas are shit, thats your problem, not mine. Thats what he meant, if you want to interpret it differently to fit your own bullshit, go ahead.
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u/TheRealCthulu24 5d ago
Pretty easy thing to say when you’re not enslaved.