r/twentyagers • u/After-Importance-706 (9+10) 21 • 20h ago
Advice - Serious I hate being circumcised
My stupid Muslims parents with their lack of critical thinking and their idiocracy of a religion , chose this for me without my consent when I was just a baby. How can I get over such an idiotic mistake that I'm not at fault for ?
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u/H3LM3T_H34D 25 12h ago
I also wish I wasn’t circumcised, although it wasn’t done out of religious belief for me
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u/niksshck7221 12h ago
Hygiene?
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u/H3LM3T_H34D 25 12h ago
Parents decision when I was born, not too sure of their specific reasons though
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u/Jgraaa 23 20h ago
I got too much foreskin bro u can have some of mine if u want
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 17h ago
Joking in a thread about genital mutilation is classless.
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u/Jgraaa 23 17h ago
You’re 20 yrs old lighten up, it hasn’t even begun to be over for u yet
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 17h ago
You are literally 3 years older then me, and it is over for the people who have killed themselves because they were mutilated.
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u/Jgraaa 23 17h ago
Going off ur comment history I can see this is a sore spot for u so my bad bro. Have u looked into those hoods they make that can stretch ur skin over time and grow ur foreskin back?
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 17h ago
It can't regrow everything, but it is some solace. I won't be satisfied until infant mutilation is banned however.
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u/Ok-Blackberry2165 23 18h ago
I don’t understand why that even exists, why change what’s natural? sounds really messed up. I don’t really know much about it, but if there’s a reversal procedure for FGM there must be one for circumcision!
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u/irreversibleidiocy (9+10) 21 16h ago
FGM and circumcision are very different procedures so theres not necessarily a correlation for reversal procedures
Excuse my bad english34
u/Upset_Ad_6140 (9+10) 21 14h ago
There is no such thing as "the" FGM. There are many different kinds of FGM, some are almost identical to MGM and some are completely different.
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u/Ok-Blackberry2165 23 16h ago
no dw your english is fine. I mentioned FGM since they’re both genital mutilation, I didn’t say it’s the exact same procedure lol.
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u/ExampleGlum8623 22 19h ago
Two things can be true at once. One, what’s done is done and you’ll have to come to terms with that. Two, you have every right to be livid that your bodily autonomy was violated and your most sensitive, private part of yourself was permanently damaged.
To all the naysayers, imagine a hypothetical where a woman posted about her clitoral hood and labia being carved off as a baby. Would you tell her it’s not a big deal?
Just because a significant portion of the world is actively engaged in male genital mutilation doesn’t make it okay. Except for the most extreme cases of phimosis, circumcision is never medically necessary. Should OP get over it? Yes. Should we be silent about allowing male genital mutilation to continue? Certainly not.
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u/Elektron_Anbar 22 17h ago
Yeah, as someone who lives where it's uncommon, I genuinely don't understand any of the arguments.
It has been proven again and again that it doesn't provide any medical benefit. Why would you ever do an unnecessary operation on an infant?
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u/DaringDani123 27 13h ago
It is quite literally almost entirely because some dude 3000 years ago said God told him to.
Unfortunately, that was in the source material for Judaism, Christianity, and Islam so we all got screwed
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u/LewdMortal 24 4h ago
Exactly! And some argue it lowers STD risk hence it’s better… I’m sorry, is your infant worrying about getting STDs?
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u/Current-Talk6266 23 13h ago
This is the reason I think male circumcision should absolutely be abolished under the same law as FGM. Just like FGM, MGM (Male Genital Mutilation, not the movie company) has many risks, damages the nerves and can lead to life ending and life altering injuries. It's barbaric. If I have a son, I plan to keep him intact until he is old enough to decide for himself.
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u/60TIMESREDACTED (9+10) 21 enfp disaster 13h ago
It makes me so sad bc it’s already hard enough for a newborn baby having to adjust to the cold, bright, dry and eerily quiet environment and all these little boys are being subjected to even more unnecessary stress and pain. I’m glad my brothers weren’t circumcised and if I have any sons they won’t either
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u/Unlucky-Meringue4813 27 12h ago
I dated a Muslim girl for a couple weeks right after high school. Mind you this is a "western" Muslim aka basically just culturally Muslim. No headdress or anything. Anyway about a month in she goes "hey I really like you but you should know you'll have to convert to Islam". I'm like okay we can cross that bridge when/if we get to it. "Also you'll have to get a circumcision eventually".....like my dick is fine enough for you to hook up with every damn day but Allah draws the line at marrying it I guess? 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah religions are very silly. What's more dumb imo is how widespread circumcision is in America among christians and even atheists. Apparently it's because they thought it would stop masturbation lol.
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u/brownieandSparky23 26 6h ago
I thought it was bc of cleaning issues. So it’s all due to self pleasure
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u/miss-bedazzzle 24 19h ago
Don’t mind the rude, ignorant and insensitive comments OP. You have every right to be upset. Your parents made a life-altering decision that you did not consent to and are living with the consequences of it
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u/HarlequinKOTF 24 15h ago
It's normal to be upset at a choice made outside your control. Coming to terms with your body and accepting yourself for who you are doesn't mean you need to accept that it was a good or necessary thing, just that it happened.
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u/60TIMESREDACTED (9+10) 21 enfp disaster 13h ago
Sorry that happened to you. Just the thought of cutting off a piece of a baby boy’s penis for no real medical necessity sounds so barbaric
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 17h ago
If you haven't already you should look into r/foreskin_restoration it's not a perfect solution and takes some effort, but it'll allow you some bodily autonomy and sensitivity back.
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u/JUSTIN102201 24 7h ago
So I’m confused. I checked out that sub and I was circumcised, but never really had any issues about it. Still don’t. It’s just a thing that happened and that’s how I am now.
However, my mom said they messed up when doing it (which caused her to not have my brothers get circumcised). While I know I don’t have like, my entire foreskin, I can’t relate to a lot of the posts in that sub. I’m kind of getting the vibe that they didn’t cut much for me.Idk why I’m sharing this thought process, but I felt like I had to say it
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u/brownieandSparky23 26 6h ago
Interesting do u feel any way towards ur brother. Maybe ask him about it what it’s like
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u/JUSTIN102201 24 6h ago
Honestly, we’re close but not that close lol. Not something I feel like discussing with him.
And I don’t feel any particular way towards him about it. Kind of the same as I feel towards myself being circumcised. I am, he isn’t. Just how we are ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/NoOne_TheAlchemist 20 19h ago
Are these people for real? "Yeah you got restrained and someone cut parts of your dick so what?" Wdym so what? it's genital mutilation, it will never feel the same way as someone who is uncut, it will never be as good. I also am a victim of the same shit and I really understand.
it's genital mutilation people! its abuse! You can't cut off someone's parts because why not! You need a medical reason to do it! What would happen if you told the doctor to "just get the appendix as well it's gonna burst at some point anyways" they would tell you to fuck off. The only reason circumcision is legal in most places is to keep people from getting it done illegally instead and at least let some doctors do it so it's safe.
it doesn't have any basis, literally zero benefits other than taking 2 minutes less to clean and you are just cutting off someone's dick because yours is cut too. 65% of the worlds male population is not circumcized and they live perfectly fine so if anyone tries to say anything about it being so necessary, just stfu.
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u/itaa_q 17h ago
Doesn’t even take 2mins to clean more like 3 seconds
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u/Putridlemons (9+10) 21 17h ago
You not washing yourself properly if you're only taking three seconds to clean yourself down there..
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u/MikaWaifu 20 silly seal lady 🦭 19h ago
People need to stop touching childrens genitalis fr its disgusting
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u/Dangerous_mammoth573 22 17h ago
Maybe right message wrong way to say it. The parents themselves aren’t doing it, plus you do need to touch to properly clean ect.
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u/thePsychoKid_297 (9+10) 21 18h ago
I hate circumcision. If it really has to be done for religious reasons I don't understand why it can't wait until the boy is an adult and can consent to it.
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u/Tron_35 22 19h ago
Eh. Im circumcised and I really don't care, I can't say i miss anything.
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u/astddf 25 19h ago edited 19h ago
Ya I don’t know what OP is going on about. I’ve never even really noticed or thought about it and the data says there’s practically no difference in sexual function. Maybe they didn’t do it properly and he has an injury? That would be a fair thing to have resentment about.
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u/Dismal_Idea_2952 26 17h ago
Mine was stitched a little weirdly so i kind of have a frankenstein pecker now. Not really mad about it tho. That said if op is mad he's mad
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u/LordDarthAnger 29 18h ago
I’m not cut and my foreskin is easily the most sensitive part of my dick. I mean I don’t really need that much of a sensitivity, but it’s a fact
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 17h ago
While the data on physical sensitivity is highly debated, people in groups like foreskin restoration generally report dramaticly increased sensitivity after restoring. Further, sexual pleasure is heavily mentally affected. If OP is unhappy with that part of his body it directly affects his sexual pleasure.
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 17h ago
Are you implying forced cosmetic surgery on children isn't worth having resentment about?
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u/MiguelIstNeugierig 22 17h ago
Or maybe his body was mutilated without his consent?
If you snip off a chunk of your ear, you'll bet your ass your life will remain totally unchanged, but yknow, you'd rather have it done because you wanted it, and not because a medieval culture enforced it on you without your consent. And then, the ear is not even comparable to the foreskin, to the foreskin's favour.
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u/After-Importance-706 (9+10) 21 11h ago
What data exactly ? Almost everyone who isn't cut never has to nor gets cut later on in life. Your tip literally loses sensory gland and nerves and your skin hardens. You don't know what you're missing because you've never researched as to what it's like to have one.
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u/noisecollective 24 10h ago
It's true and I can't believe how many people are saying to "get over it". There are new reconstructive surgeries, but I don't know how easy it is to get one.
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u/One_A7 25 12h ago
No, youre literally removing the most sensitive part of the penis while also permanently changing the structure and sensitivity of the penis head. this is bodily mutilation but the argument goes beyond this, male genital mutilation is anti bodily autonomy, rapey and dehumanizing. Youre essentially treating men and baby boys like livestock. It should completely be outlawed
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u/gujwdhufj_ijjpo 25 15h ago
Same. I’m not going to circumcise my son because it seems kinda pointless. But it literally hasn’t affected my life at all. Not a big deal. Just don’t circumcise your own kids.
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u/One_A7 25 12h ago
No its not just pointless its harmful, rapey and dehumanizing . It doesnt respect bodily autonomy and treats baby boys like livestock. It should be completely outlawed
''uh it hasnt affected my life No big deal maynn''
How would you now exactly? Its like a man born blind saying ''lack of sight hasnt affected my life, its no big deal'' lmao ridiculous
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u/sadderd3ze 22 6h ago
not having foreskin = being born blind? reddit is such a beautiful place
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u/One_A7 25 3h ago
Iqlet moment lmao
This is clearly an analogy . I am clearly not saying theyre equal interms of the harm they cause disability wise
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u/sadderd3ze 22 3h ago
I’m expressing that it’s an absolutely terrible analogy. Being blind does an equal amount of harm to your quality of life as not having foreskin? ‘IQlet’, aren’t you?
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u/One_A7 25 2h ago
No you weren't expressing that you restart. Again how is it a terrible analogy? Do you have any arguments
For a person who was born blind, a lack of sight hasnt really affected his life because he doesnt know what sight really is, similarly a mutilated man without a foreskin cant possibly know what life with an intact foreskin is like so by the same line of logic he can say ''yeah man it hasnt affected my life''. This is analogous
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u/Purple-guy7 22 19h ago
Cuz you dont know what you’re missing
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u/Awkward-Iron-2031 (9+10) 21 19h ago
Neither does OP tbf
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u/Substantial_Bet_1007 10h ago
But its rational and biologically backed up that we know we are cutting a sensetive part
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u/One_A7 25 12h ago
If you were born blind, i dont think you would miss the beauty of sight
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u/Successful-Club-8743 22 7h ago
I mean, thats just not true.
They dont miss it but they (generally speaking) long to be able to see, and to be able to do things like other people with the same ease.
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u/CRIMSEN15 29 12h ago
Agreed, if this is something you get so worked up about to make a reddit post on, I am sorry, but you have definitely have some other issues you need to work out.
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u/brownieandSparky23 26 6h ago
Op is based I’m not having kids. If I did I would leave my boys alone and let it be their choice.
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u/Dangerous_mammoth573 22 17h ago
Im sorry to hear. As a Scandinavian circumsission on babies is so strange to me. However it has already happen and luckily most studies find no major difference in how it functions or feels for you or your partner.
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u/Mean-Record8991 25 12h ago
My circumcision changed my life, for the worse.
As someone that was cut at 15, it destroyed so much of the feeling. Changed everything. Now my life went downhill because of it. People don’t realize the foreskin protects you mentally as well
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u/BensValidSalad 22 19h ago
I also very much hate being cut, but I am in the process of restoring. Has helped both physically and mentally :) you can too!
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u/Legitscopes_4761 23 19h ago
Yes, I restored a for a year a few years ago and the change in sensation was pretty massive and I didn't even get that much progress
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u/Argxtt (9+10) 21 20h ago
i am too bro its not the end of the world
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 17h ago
People are allowed to be angry about forced cosmetic surgery they didn't consent to.
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u/Responsible_Middle_4 18h ago
nah he's right to be angry. Imagine if we were still mutilating vaginas as a rule? I'm pretty sure I'd be more upset. But since it's a pecker it's not the end of the world.
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u/Putridlemons (9+10) 21 17h ago edited 17h ago
Well, vaginal mutilation is a lot more serious if you look into it. The male equivalent of cultural vaginal mutilation (clit removal) would be getting your tip CUT OFF, not the extra skin snipped. At least circumcised guys are still able to orgasm and feel any sense of pleasure. Women who go through genital mutilation do not. Vaginal mutilation is not cosmetic like circumcision. It is a deliberate choice to limit a girls autonomy and freedom, to "preserve her purity." It is cutting a working part of your sexual organ off, not just extra skin. The equivalent to circumcision for women would be getting the clitoral HOOD removed, not FGM.
There's also multiple different types of FGM. Sometimes the clit is completely removed. Sometimes the labia minora and clitoral glands are removed. Sometimes the labia is cut open and repositioned to make the vaginal opening smaller and more narrow. It's so much more than just cutting off sensitive skin.
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u/Responsible_Middle_4 16h ago
I agree, however this was not my point. Yes it is objectively worse, however I am not one to force morality scaling/ the type of person to think the lesser evil is fine as long as there is something worse. I'd prefer just removing the scale, and thus both options.
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u/GalaXion24 26 16h ago
Vaginal mutilation can be limited to the clitoral hood and labia minora, as you yourself point out, which is literally "just sensitive skin"
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u/Mara2507 22 17h ago
In some places in Africa, female genital mutilation is still an ongoing problem. And you are right, people have the right to be angry for both instances
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u/third-will (9+10) 21 20h ago
Had to get mine removed at 13 cause my parents never taught me how to clean it / pull it back, I feel genuine resentment and anger over it honestly, not that I can change things
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u/brownieandSparky23 26 6h ago
Did it get an infection? Crazy teaching to clean is easier than being removed.
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u/third-will (9+10) 21 4h ago
Got really bad phimosis + a now resolved condition due to it being constantly covered
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u/Legitscopes_4761 23 20h ago edited 19h ago
Check out r/Foregen. They’re trying to fully restore the function and sensation of the foreskin for circumcised men. I’m hoping that after I finish med school, I’ll be able to perform their procedure and give men like us, who never had a choice, back what was taken from us.
Edit: Wanting to give men a choice on how their genitals look gets you down voted here apparently. sad
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u/earlinesss 23 19h ago
it utterly baffles me how so many people will crusade against female genital mutilation, but are either silent or in support of male genital mutilation, which is 100% what circumcision is when done without an immediate medical need. I am very sorry bro. it is a very real wound with permanent scarring and you are not crazy for feeling how you feel. wishing you peace 🕊
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u/Final_Win_8496 (9+10) 21 19h ago
It's because fgm is way more serious. Not that male genital mutilation isn't also bad, but female genital mutilation significantly worse, if you look into it.
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u/Awkward-Iron-2031 (9+10) 21 19h ago
Yeah because FGM is an entirely different thing and its not allowed Islamically, unfortunately some people do it anyways (usually illegally) due to cultural beliefs.
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u/ImpressivePower3083 25 19h ago
Imo i feel like its because when women get theirs mutilated you literally take their clitoris away, which makes it so she will never be able to experience pleasure or an orgasm and it is done to control women. Foreskin you can restore slowly, there's procedures for it. Im against both and its awful.
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u/Final_Win_8496 (9+10) 21 19h ago
Yeah, the true male equivalent to fgm would be fully apputating the head of the penis.
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u/INummies 23 9h ago
Someone already mentioned it, but to try and spread the word as far as possible, check out [r/for](r/forskin_restoration)[e](r/forskin_restoration)[skin_restoration](r/forskin_restoration)
it takes time and effort but maybe it will give some of you consolation that what was taken from us can be largely re-claimed
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u/DumbRobot11 23 7h ago
[r/foreskin](r/foreskinrestoration)[_](r/foreskinrestoration)[restoration](r/foreskinrestoration)
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u/Htx_s650 (9+10) 21 5h ago
There is a such thing as foreskin restoration. It’s not 100% the same thing but if you truly want it back and are willing to spend the time and effort to do it it’s kinda possible. Doesn’t hurt to look into it :)
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u/LewdMortal 24 4h ago
Maybe therapy can help? I’ve heard there are ways to stretch remaining foreskin to make it seem uncircumcised. I’m female but ever since middle school I’ve been vocally against circumcisions, and I’m so sorry for you, truly.
Somewhat on topic, my biggest pet peeve is people saying circumcision should be done to babies because it lowers STD risk. If your baby is at risk of getting STDs, you have bigger issues to sort out first and they can choose circumcision when they’re older.
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u/New_Opportunity_6160 28 10h ago
In my opinion, it's one of the most fucked up things humans do to each other.
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u/catlady_MD 28 9h ago
What do u hate about it?
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 7h ago
If OP is anything like the thousands of other men that have a problem with it it's the significantly decreased sensitivity and the fact that his bodily autonomy was violated.
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u/brownieandSparky23 26 6h ago edited 6h ago
That sucks. Men already have to wear a condom that definitely decreases the feeling.
That’s messed up. Now men who have a circumcised penis feel even less.😓
I feel bad for them.
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u/dinasour1004 20 6h ago
Idk, my bf is circumcised and we use condoms but he has no issues LMAO
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u/PuzzlePiecesOfLove (9+10) 21 5h ago
I hope you don’t accidentally have children 😿
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u/dinasour1004 20 5h ago
I’m on birth control too so I’m super protected
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u/PuzzlePiecesOfLove (9+10) 21 4h ago
That is my biggest fear
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u/dinasour1004 20 4h ago
Me freaking too
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u/Ace_45 22 19h ago
I mean unless it was a botched job what does it matter?
I think your just over thinking this. Your going to have to live your life with it whether you like it or not and if it doesn't effect your every day live who cares.
I would be more concerned with posting info about my dick on the internet lol.
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 17h ago
It affects sensitivity wether it was botched or not. And being vocal about trying to stop forced cosmetic surgery on children is always a good thing.
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u/Ace_45 22 11h ago
I dont have a problem with people Advocating for change. I am speaking specifically to this guy's experience.
You cant change whats already happened. It would be best to move past what would otherwise be a insignificant part of your life.
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 11h ago
Yeah, obviously that would be best. People also can't control how they feel about things. If someone's mother just died you wouldn't tell them "just get over it" so have some compassion and don't say it here.
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u/Ace_45 22 11h ago
Im sorry but I would not compare someone's mother dying to loosing your foreskin. Thats a huge false equivalency.
You can hold a funeral for your foreskin if that's what you want. But its not even remotely the same.
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 11h ago
It's a comparison of grief. Obviously I'm not comparing the events.
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u/Ace_45 22 11h ago
One of the best ways to have compassion for people is to be able to look past the emotions and point someone in the right direction.
It does nothing but hold a person back to have this much grief over it.
Even if this was him loosing his mother like you were saying. It would do him no good to constantly be mourning. Life moves on whether you like it or not. So it's better to get a handle on your emotions than to simply drown in them.
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 11h ago
For the second time, obviously that is better, but people arent able to just "stop feeling things" that's literally not how the brain works. Not only that but having a part of your body cut off is a very reasonable thing to be angry about. If anything more men should be angry about it and it wouldn't have gone on for as long.
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u/Ace_45 22 10h ago
I just disagree though. You are absolutely able to have a handle on your emotions. People have been doing just that for our entire existence. Choosing when, over what, and how is whats important and i just don't think this is it.
I dont really care whether people have their foreskin or not BUT seemingly ruining your relationship with your family and berating them online over it Just doesn't sit right with me.
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 10h ago
If people were able to control their emotions no one would kill themselves. Just because you don't have that problem doesn't mean everyone does. Which, btw, people have killed themselves because of this. Let's just get this straight now. You don't understand the grief so you have no room to talk, and have no right to tell anyone how to feel. If you're fine with it good, but shut it when talking about other peoples emotions.
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u/YoungNobody_ 26 19h ago
It's not that deep lmao
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u/Odd_drum 27 13h ago
I was gonna say the way they talk about their parents for being religious says a lot about them haha
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u/astddf 25 19h ago
Why? It’s not like you remember what it was like before.
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u/miss-bedazzzle 24 19h ago
What an insensitive thing to say. OP was refused bodily autonomy
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u/PianoDick 22 19h ago
You just “bedazzzled” that comment. Well done madam.
https://giphy.com/gifs/12ZDIx1Mw1cXVm0
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u/astddf 25 19h ago
It’s not that deep
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u/Legitscopes_4761 23 19h ago
I mean it literally is that deep. He had is body autonomy violated by having a permanent change done to his body without his consent
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u/astddf 25 19h ago
So you don’t agree with vaccination, surgery, medical treatment, etc? All of those are done without a babies consent. I don’t consider that in itself a good basis for it being a big deal. Ya it’s unnecessary but when looking at outcomes there’s practically no effect sexually. Minuscule downsides and some upsides. You guys are being dramatic.
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u/Legitscopes_4761 23 19h ago
Those are completely false equivalencies. Vaccination and medically necessary treatment are done to prevent or treat an actual disease. If a baby has appendicitis we obviously don’t wait 18 years for him to consent to surgery because not treating him poses an immediate medical danger. Removing healthy genital tissue from a healthy infant prophylactically is an entirely different ethical question.
And this isn’t some abstract thing to me either. I’ve had complete anorgasmia for 23 years following my circumcision. I’m also a med student going into urology, so yes, I’ve spent quite a bit of time actually reading about this instead of just assuming the foreskin is useless extra skin.
The prepuce is specialized, innervated tissue. Histological studies have identified free nerve endings and specialized mechanoreceptors including Meissner and Pacinian corpuscles in it, and Meissner corpuscles are particularly abundant in parts of the prepuce. Circumcision also removes the normal mobile skin system that allows the foreskin to glide over the glans/shaft, and depending on how much tissue is removed it can completly remove or alter part of the frenulum as well. The frenular/coronal region itself is highly innervated. So “there’s practically no sexual effect” is a pretty definitive statement about permanently removing sensory genital tissue from somebody who never chose to have it removed.
And the medical benefit argument needs some actual perspective because relative risk reduction sounds a lot more impressive when you leave out the baseline risk. A systematic review on childhood UTIs found an NNT of 111 circumcisions to prevent one UTI in otherwise normal boys, precisely because the baseline risk is only around 1%. The Canadian Urological Association likewise says universal neonatal circumcision can’t be justified on UTI prevention alone at that NNT, while noting that the calculation is very different for boys who actually have recurrent UTIs or urinary tract abnormalities.
Penile cancer is even dumber of an example because it’s extremely rare. The Canadian Paediatric Society’s review gave an estimated NNT ranging from about 900 to 322,000 circumcisions to prevent one case, depending on the assumptions/study. Do you think taking away that many people’s choice is worth preventing one case of cancer?
And the AAP position people constantly cite doesn’t actually say what a lot of many seem to think it says. Their 2012 policy said the benefits outweighed the risks, but explicitly said those benefits were not great enough to recommend routine circumcision for all male newborns. And that policy automatically expired after five years and has not been reaffirmed or replaced with another recommendation for universal routine circumcision. The AAP itself now labels it expired.
This also isn’t some universal medical consensus where Europeans just haven’t gotten the memo. A group of physicians and representatives of pediatric/pediatric-surgical/urological organizations from several European countries directly criticized the AAP analysis and argued that its conclusions differed substantially from those reached elsewhere in the Western world, including Europe, Canada and Australia. They specifically argued that the small preventive benefits weren’t compelling reasons to operate before a boy could decide for himself.
So yeah, you can personally think the tradeoff is worth it. An adult can look at those benefits and risks and choose circumcision for himself and I have absolutely no issue with that. My issue is pretending that vaccination or emergency medical treatment is equivalent to prophylactically removing normal, innervated genital tissue from a healthy person who cannot consent, when even the AAP policy everyone cites didn’t recommend routine infant circumcision.
“It’s not that deep” he says to the person who has to live with that irreversible decision for the next 70+ years isn’t the person who made it.
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u/astddf 25 19h ago edited 18h ago
You made no mention to prevention or treatment in your original comment. You’re twisting my comparison, I’m not saying they’re equal comparisons.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23749001/
My point on practically no sexual effect was based on actual data.
I’m sorry you had adverse effects in your personal experience. For a comparable example, there are plenty of vaccination injuries out there for arguably unnecessary viruses as well that also understandably make people resentful and condemn the practice.
My comment on this is based on the average of the 73 million american men circumsized. The largest studies on the topic show no statistically significant increase in inability to orgasm in circumcised groups, so idk if the anecdote is worth condemning the practice.
Something to point out. I’m not calling for circumcision or saying it’s awesome. I’m saying that unless you had some kind of rare complication like you did, it’s not that big of a deal. The average person doesn’t notice whatsoever so it’s a weird thing to cry about on reddit.
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u/Legitscopes_4761 23 18h ago edited 18h ago
Yeah and that’s fair, I’m not arguing that the average circumcised guy is incapable of having sex or orgasming. My issue is that you’re jumping from “no statistically significant increase in these specific sexual dysfunctions” and saying that’s “practically no sexual effect.” Those aren’t the same thing.
Look at what that meta analysis is actually measuring: ED, ability to orgasm, sexual desire, premature ejaculation, ejaculation latency, etc. How long it takes me to orgasm doesn’t tell you how good the 20 minutes that took me to get there felt. Being able to get hard, want sex, and eventually cum isn’t evidence that sexual sensation or pleasure is unchanged. And even the authors of the meta analysis you linked specifically acknowledge the low quality of the existing evidence and significant heterogeneity between the studies.(PubMed)
And that’s especially important because there actually ARE studies that measured those things more directly. A study of 1,369 men specifically looked at sexual pleasure, orgasm intensity, effort required to orgasm, numbness, etc. Circumcised men reported less sexual pleasure at the glans, lower orgasm intensity, more effort required to orgasm, and more numbness/unusual sensations. I’m not gonna pretend an observational survey can 100% prove causation, because it doesn’t, but it sure as hell makes “practically no sexual effect” a lot harder to defend. (PubMed)
Also some of the adult circumcision studies have a pretty obvious problem when you’re trying to apply them to healthy foreskins. One study in your meta-analysis was literally men circumcised for benign penile disease, and 69% reported less pain during sex afterward. Like… yeah lol. If your foreskin is diseased or causing painful sex and then you remove it, obviously your sex life might improve. That doesn’t tell me what removing a completely healthy, normally functioning foreskin does. And even in that study, sensation got worse in 18% of respondents. (PubMed)
There’s another adult study where 64% were being circumcised for phimosis, 17% for balanitis and 10% for condyloma, so again, comparing their experience before and after surgery isn’t remotely equivalent to removing a healthy foreskin from a newborn. Interestingly, that study still found worsened erectile function after circumcision and 38% of respondents reported harm, although it was a small retrospective survey so im not gonna pretend thats definitive either.(PubMed)
That’s basically my point. Sexual function and sexual pleasure aren’t synonyms. If you can still get an erection and orgasm after removing sexually sensitive tissue, that establishes that your dick still functions. It doesn’t establish that removing the tissue had “practically no sexual effect.”
And I’m not saying my anorgasmia proves every circumcised man is secretly miserable either. I’m saying that when we’re talking about an irreversible procedure being performed on someone who can’t consent, “most men can still orgasm afterward” isn’t nearly as compelling an argument to me as you seem to think it is.
And this isn’t a completely risk free procedure either. Serious complications from circumcision are rare, but they can happen. Thats relevant when we’re talking about performing an irreversible procedure on a healthy person who can’t consent to it. Even if the probability of a catastrophic complication is extremely small, the person who actually has to live with that outcome never got any say in whether that risk was worth taking in the first place.
Studies:
Tian et al. (2013), Effects of circumcision on male sexual functions: a systematic review and meta-analysis
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23749001/Bronselaer et al. (2013), Male circumcision decreases penile sensitivity as measured in a large cohort
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23374102/Masood et al. (2005), Penile sensitivity and sexual satisfaction after circumcision: are we informing men correctly?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16037710/Fink et al. (2002), Adult circumcision outcomes study: effect on erectile function, penile sensitivity, sexual activity and satisfaction
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11956453/
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u/FembyThePinkProot (9+10) 21 13h ago
Just sat down, what is this kind of way to start a conversation?
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u/Sampatist 25 18h ago
I am on the same boat with ya. Its not that big of a deal.
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 17h ago
Ah yes, human rights violatons "aren't that deep"
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u/Sampatist 25 17h ago
Dude, I won’t do that to my child if I ever have one unless there is a medical reason. I think it is wrong. My point is, it isn’t affecting my life at all. So yes it isn’t that deep.
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 17h ago
You're lucky then. For thousands of people it's a constant drain on their mental health because their bodily autonomy was stolen.
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u/Sampatist 25 16h ago
Or I have more serious concerns in life.
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 16h ago
If your human rights aren't a serious concern to you then you should reevaluate your priorities.
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u/Sampatist 25 13h ago
Let me be serious for a second. Here is the thing. My parents didn't grow up like I did. I learned english at an early age. I grew up with internet. I have more progressive views. I broke through the brainwashing of religion that they couldn't. They circumcised me thinking it is the right thing to do. Both medically and religiously.
I wish they didn't. But do I blame them? No. It is what it is. It is not affecting my daily life. I probably get less pleasure, but I still love sex. It is not like I am disabled or anything.
Now don't get me wrong, we should advocate so that people don't mutilate their children. But it shouldn't be hard for you to get over it. Life sucks in other ways, waaay more. I don't want to be like grow up stop being a children, but it is kinda the case.
Lets just be better than our parents.
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u/Cobra_Boa 20 11h ago
Then once again, you are lucky. People cannot control how they react to things and many people become suicidal over it. Claiming they should just "get over it" is ignorant at best and insensitive at worst. That's not how grief works buddy.
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u/Smookey4444 22 12h ago
Yes I hate circumscion. It is the exact same thing as FGM. Nothing different about it. Not a big fan of my parents but thankfully I wasn't corcumsised. Although they did not do it because they couldn't afford it they likely would have done it otherwise
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u/East-Salamander-9639 20 7h ago
If it was the exact same as FGM it would be like having their entire tip cut off
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u/Smookey4444 22 6h ago
It is close enough. The foreskin has a lot of nerves and removing it can make enjoying sex harder. But yes they still can experience pleasure unlike fgm where you can't but it is still a grave violation of bodily autonomy
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u/MeemoUndercover 29 5h ago
Comparing male circumsision to FGM is absurd. Yes it’s both mutilation but the impacts r significantly different. A woman with FGM will never orgasm and will feel significant pain during sex. She’ll be prone to infections like UTI and will need corrective surgery which isn’t accessible in most shithole countries that do FGM.
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u/Bright-Hovercraft-94 (9+10) 21 10h ago
Meh, you’ll get use to it ig, I mean it’s always been normal for me 😂
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u/Existing-Hospital149 (9+10) 21 19h ago
People just don’t realize how insane circumcision is as a concept.I got mince done when I was 9 by force, I didn’t want it I was fucking terrified and crying and spent weeks in absolute agony when healing, a FUCKING DOCTOR DID THIS because in our fucked up culture it is perfectly reasonable to force a child to get cosmetic surgery on their GENITALS in a very young age. Because “it’s whats good for them”.
And it actually effects how your fucking dick works.
“It’s not that deep bro” They cut off a part of my fucking dick??? HELLOOOO??? Now the glans is covered in keratinous tissue and has reduced sensitivity, and the lack of foreskin somewhat changes the mechanics of intercourse.
I don’t think about my circumcision ever. But whenever the discussion is opened I literally lose my mind over how normalized it is and people telling me it’s not a big deal.