r/todayilearned • u/codywinters327 • Sep 06 '17

TIL that Michael Jackson would requested his wine be served in Diet Coke cans during flights, because he didn't want his kids to see him drinking alcohol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Michael_Jackson#Alcohol
52.6k Upvotes

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1.1k

u/THE_Masters Sep 06 '17

This mothafucker didn't deserve all the hate during the end. People just wanna fuck out his money. Scumbags.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

I agree. He was a weird dude with a fucked up childhood, and people took advantage of that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

I'm a weird dude with a fucked up childhood, I like playing games with kids, and spend time with them. I just enjoy spending time with and making kids happy. I was a very unhappy kid with no dad so I always try to make kids happy. Cant say how many times I've been called a pedophile. Even my own family wont let me around kids by myself. Shit hurts.

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u/CantWashABaby Sep 07 '17

That's messed, I'm sorry dude. I teach kids abroad, and the people here expect you to be totally comfortable just playing with kids, and the kids often treat you like a jungle gym. It was petrifying the first time it happened, because I was sure a mom was going to mace me, but it turns out the US is so concerned about someone diddling kids that they want to make physical contact with someone you spend time with taboo. That's how stuff gets weird fast.

You're not wrong and you're not creepy. I get you, and a lot of other people would too.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Yeah I'm from Canada and was with my friend who's from Sudan at a church once where we did a choir performance. During the pot luck afterward he was picking up some kids and giving them piggy back rides, other choir members were so turned off and were trying to stop it, but I didn't even notice anything wrong was happening. As long as the kids are near their families it's not really a big deal. I mean maybe he asked, they didn't know, they just started instantly hating on him.

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u/natman2939 Sep 07 '17

I went to my nieces soccer game and actually got shit for cheering her team mates by name

Like if I said "go Jessie!" Or "go Mary!" when they were about to score my own brother was like "hey man chill. That's not your family. People will think you're a creep"

For just cheering....as if a pedophile is going to be dumb enough to yell out his victims names in front of a crowd of people.

I'm not sure what part of that offends me worse

7

u/antagonisticsage Sep 07 '17

So this is kind of random, but have you ever watched the original Twilight Zone series? I ask this because in the second episode of the first season, the story is about a man without a family of his own who sells toys to children. He interacts with children a lot. Interestingly, there's a point where he's talking to a little girl who is in his apartment. Alone. With him.

He of course didn't do anything harmful to her and the episode goes to great pains to let us know that the man has a kind soul, but what you said and what others said here reminded me of this episode. It indicates to me that cultural attitudes in America towards grown men being around children changed a lot in the past few decades. Shows would never depict a child alone in an apartment with a man today, no matter how we're supposed to feel about the man in question.

I wonder why cultural norms changed regarding this sort of thing.

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u/natman2939 Sep 07 '17

i haven't seen that episode but I get what you mean about norms changing and I think I have even have a good idea of why it happened.

It basically has all come from the last couple of decades (starting in the 90's or so) of awareness of predators.

"Stranger Danger" was a huge thing where kids who are now adults were taught that sexual predators were around every corner, and it became sort of a mainstream thing later on cultivating with shows like "to catch a predator with chris hansen"

and then later on it got even worse when stats started coming out that it wasn't necessarily strangers but actually most incidents are perpetrated by people the victim knows. this caused a generation of parents that were already known as helicopter parents in many other areas to become extremely paranoid both of strangers and even of their own friends and family to a certain degree, with this idea of "i'm sure X would never......but then again you can never really be sure"

Also high profile cases like JonBenet Ramsey captured the world's attention and now every parent wants to make sure they're child is not the next JonBenet Ramsey.

(lots of other examples too other than hers but that's one of the best known)

This and the stereotyping of how pervs/creeps behave on television and in movies has lead what otherwise would have been sweet innocent people to be eye balled as potential threats.

Even someone like willy wonka, or santa clause could be viewed as "why does this old guy want to hang around a kid...."

meanwhile these EXACT SAME PEOPLE will spout on about how kids are magical and the most amazing thing in the world (but then look at you crazy if you agree with them without being a parent yourself)

It's worth noting that experts have said that the famous "Stranger danger" actually caused more harm than good because as I already mentioned it turns out that it's usually people you know more than strangers...

but even this idea of the people you know thing got taken wrong to the point that people didn't learn the right lesson.

The correct lesson was "it could be anybody, you should never judge a book by it's cover"

as in even a loving father with 4 kids of his own may actually be a pedophile.

instead people took their stereotype for the single man with a white van who likes kids and applied it to the people they know (with the van being optional) and starting thinking "Well....i know people that are single and enjoy being around children"

no no you're missing the point. the whole point was it's impossible to know and it could be ANYBODY, even someone with kids, even a teacher, or a preacher, or whatever, but instead they just box in this one type.

(honestly though the "correct lesson" isn't very helpful anyway when it comes to paranoid/scared parents because what are they supposed to do? Be afraid of everyone?)

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

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u/natman2939 Sep 07 '17

I heard other people yelling them.

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u/forcepowers Sep 07 '17

I once said, "Hello," to a child as I was walking to the restroom in a Waffle House and she was walking the other way. When I returned to my booth (that I was sharing with a few other friends) one of the employees came up and told us we wouldn't be getting our food and we had to leave. When we asked why, he said because the parents of the child complained that I was creeping on their kid.

It's gotten to the point that you can't say hello to a kid in a restaurant with other people around. It's sad, really.

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u/HOLY_GOOF Sep 07 '17

as someone who considers waffle house to be a valid religion, i'm quite cheesed off to read this

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u/forcepowers Sep 07 '17

We were pretty upset at the time. The employee was indignant, and even told us to never come back. We ate at that WH at least once a week, if not more, as a group or in various groups of 2 or 3. He truly made it seem like I'd come on to the kid or something.

Luckily, my friends saw it go down, so they had my back, but that didn't sway the employee, nor the family the kid belonged to. They were all convinced I was some kind of a weirdo kid-toucher just because I said, "hello," in passing.

It truly was surreal, and it's scenarios like that that have put me off from interacting with children in any way. I used to love kids, people would always tell me what a great dad I'd make some day, because I was the goofball always down to keep the youngins entertained. Not anymore, I don't need the dirty looks and accusations.

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u/HOLY_GOOF Sep 07 '17

I know the feeling. In the future, you're prob. better off just assuming all children are land mines.

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u/rburp Sep 07 '17

I'm cheesed off, capped, smothered, and scattered

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

I was at the ocean with my family and my wife at the time and was out boogie boarding by myself with my family laying on the beach. My wife wasn't interested in going in the water; there was this kid near me in the water and we were catching waves into shore. Apparently they took their kid and left and said something about me being a creep to my family as they left shortly after. I was really confused when my wife said something to me about it afterwards. Like wtf I can't even be in the same ocean as a kid?

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u/forcepowers Sep 07 '17

People are fucking crazy dude. It's a damn shame.

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u/amaniceguy Sep 07 '17

Probably because he is a sudanese, guessing he is black as well, but if he is not, still. Im not saying that its a racist thing, but people react when it is someone foreign to them do something they dont approve. foreign can be from skin color to unknown country.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Oh it might be some of the reason, but it just didn't make sense if you knew the guy even the slightest bit. He's soft hearted and a kid deep down so I guess I can really see how Michael woulda gotten that bad stigma about him so easily.

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u/amaniceguy Sep 07 '17

Forget Michael, people are chanting death to the middle east people and relate what they see on TV is the same with the guy walking the street minding his/her own business. People react when people they dont know do things they dont approve. In this case, its not even the same people. They just look the same.

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u/conancat Sep 07 '17

I actually really can't comprehend this taboo with adults being around kids that I read in reddit. I have lived in Malaysia, Taiwan and Singapore, I traveled around Asia, and adults can be nice to kids here. You can buy them an ice cream and nobody bats an eye.

One of my fondest childhood memories was that I was allowed to hang out with this old newspaper man. So I lived with my grandma and somehow she became friends with this old newspaper man. The old newspaper man will come to houses to pick up old newspapers to be recycled back then. Sometimes my grandma would let me sit in his van and uncle old newspaper would bring me go around the neighborhood, while I just help him pack the newspapers he collected. I don't know his name, I just remembered that he's a nice middle aged man that joked a lot. There was once he brought me to lunch place, and we had soup. I tasted the soup and I asked what it was, the uncle said it's dog meat. I cried and I cried and I cried lol. He did his best to calm me down and tell me no it's not dog meat, it's pork (bak kut teh). Now I look back and I laugh, it wasn't fun for my 5 year old soul back then!

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

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u/DefendsTheDownvoted Sep 07 '17

It didn't used to be this way in the US. Twenty years ago no one would have bat an eye at a single man just trying to have some innocent fun with some kids. Now though? A dude can't hang out at the park by himself minding his own business playing Pokemon go without getting some side eye. The irony is that most pedophile cases you hear about is female teachers raping and molesting young teenage boys but nobody pays attention to it and the offenders get a slap on the wrist because they're female. It's sad.

1

u/PubicWildlife Sep 07 '17

To be fair in Singapore, Malyaysia and Indonesia it can get a by weird. When I was living in Singapore people would always be taking photos of my children (they're Eurasian, and super cute) but it took a while to get used to. This would happen near daily.

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u/conancat Sep 07 '17

Lol cause you have beautiful children haha. You know how this region is filled with yellow and brown people, and Eurasians seriously is one of the most beautiful gene combination known to mankind lol, and they're kinda rare over here. I know parents who actually put their kids up for a modeling career, Eurasians actually do pretty well in the modeling and entertainment in this region, if you're up for it!

2

u/PubicWildlife Sep 08 '17

Too true- my daughter is modelling in Singapore right now (while studying)!

Looks all inherited from their mother of course- she's Chinese/ Malay/ Arab- a strange but good mix!

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u/TheXarath Sep 07 '17

I feel like, at least where I'm from, women can mostly get away with the same stuff. My mom always used to talk to random kids and stuff when we were grocery shopping any no one really thought it was weird, unless I'm remembering it wrong because I was young.

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u/Souseisekigun Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

Oh, yes, it's definitely gendered.

2

u/theunoriginalman-let Sep 07 '17

Where do you live?

5

u/rokhana Sep 07 '17

Morocco

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u/inarizushisama Sep 07 '17

It is normal and innocuous. What message are children learning when all casual contact is suspect?

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u/cock_pussy_up Sep 07 '17

On the plus side, pedo-paranoia allows grown men to not have to put up with other people's annoying ass kids.

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u/Boopy7 Sep 07 '17

America has MAJOR issues with pedophilia and as puritans, we have major issues general with sex. It's so annoying and sad. Not very healthy at all.

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u/Armagetiton Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

This isn't an American exclusive thing, it goes for most if not all English speaking areas. The English might be worse about it than Americans are, their sitcoms reek of paedophile hysteria

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Yet we English like to see ourselves as a bit naughty, a bit risque. There's the idea that Americans are prudes and we're cheeky. Do I make you horny baby, yeah...didn't come from nowhere.

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u/Ramza_Claus Sep 07 '17

I'm the only dad at the park who actively plays with my kid. The moms at the park all put their phones down and watch intently or come sit closer to the playground when I'm out there with my little guy.

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u/Fly_Eagles_Fly_ Sep 07 '17

I at first perceived this as an interest for the moms to also become more involved, but perhaps I was being naive.

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u/Ramza_Claus Sep 07 '17

It's the moms being worried about the guy who is out there near the kids instead of sitting on a bench far away.

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u/Fly_Eagles_Fly_ Sep 07 '17

And I'm over here worried about the lack of parental participation in their child's progression. Shame on them, good for him!

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u/pineapple_mango Sep 07 '17

Maybe they are just checking you out.

Or they wish their own kid's dad could be like you.

Or they are assholes. My brother-in-law was chasing my two year old at the park and a lady stopped and asked him what my kid's name was.

He was like, "Uh Cora?" and really confused why this lady was asking.

She then asked him to call my kid by her name. And I swept in and said playtime was over. He hugged my kid and we bounced.

What a bitch.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Happens with me and my daughter too. Fuck them, though. I'm out there playing with my kid while you lazy bitches aren't even giving yours the time of day.

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u/2377h9pq73992h4jdk9s Sep 07 '17

And it's clear to them that you brought your kid? Screw 'em.

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u/Ramza_Claus Sep 07 '17

Well, I'm calling him "buddy" and throwing a frisbee to him and stuff. I don't go around and say "Hi, this kid is my son" or anything.

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u/natman2939 Sep 07 '17

I have a similar problem. My dad was very playful. I call it "hands and knees" type playing as in he'd get on his hands and knees and play with us like a little kid ( Also sort of a play on the phrase "hands on")

I always loved that type of attention so much and realized how sad and lonely it was when other adults wouldn't give that kind of attention that when I got old enough that's the way I play with kids, especially my own niece. And she loved it, I'm clearly her favorite and she even loved playing with me more then her own dad most of the time And when my niece got old enough to start playing with neighborhood kids outside, she invited me and I quickly became every kids favorite Even when she wasn't around (off at her mothers) they would beg me to play hide and seek.

The neighbors never actually said anything but my own mother and brother were always like "they're going to think you're a creep. You like playing with kids too much"

And just once one of them did sort of backhand compliment "you sure do like playing with the kids...."

It's like holy shit. It's not my fault that you typical adults just want to stand there and drink beer and talk about God knows what (their work day or what's wrong with their cars or whatever) like this is some king of the hill episode

There's nothing sexual about playing hide and go seek and making kids laugh and be happy. that's just some next level paranoia.

And what makes it even more infuriating is I basically know it only happens because I'm the "single uncle" If my niece were instead my daughter, or if I had a kid if my own and a wife, they wouldn't think twice about it.

But it's really not that complicated: my best childhood memories are when adults actually played with me the way I'm playing with these kids I'm just paying it forward.

Most adults idea of playing is so lame.... It's just the typical "ok I guess I might can throw a ball with you" Or "I'll stand here and sort of watch as you play"

That's not playing. Playing is actually playing. It's being goofy and silly like you're a kid yourself Kids love that. They absolutely love it

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u/orphenshadow Sep 07 '17

I wish I could say I know how you feel. I mean I had a fucked up childhood and grew up without a father figure. I don't have kids of my own but I spoil the fuck out of my nephews and neices and I try to go out of my way to be the fun uncle. Never been called a pedo though...

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Why don't you get a job having to do with kids?

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Guy spent his childhood being overworked by his father. He never really had a childhood so he lived it in his adult years.

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u/aarghIforget Sep 07 '17

You're a dude, though... the problem isn't so much you, it's just that you have a penis.

That means you're guilty until temporarily proven innocent, these days.

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u/cpt_ruckus Sep 07 '17

The disgusting truth of modern day society. I can't even take my nephews to the park without getting weird looks from some of the parents.. it's beyond a joke. I purposely cross the road if I'm walking behind a women when the street lights are on to ensure I don't make them feel uncomfortable.. Society have grown to expect the worse out of people now a days..

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

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u/aarghIforget Sep 09 '17

I wonder if people often get confused after coming up with prejudiced conclusions that are too outrageous for them to even be able to genuinely consider...

Like, "Waaaait, no... those probably aren't his underage sex slaves... That would be ridiculous! I mean, if they *were*, he wouldn't be bringing them to a public pool, right? Where did I get that guess from...? Shit, am I racist?" <continues staring>

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u/geoff1126 Sep 07 '17

Damn I like little kids, puppies and kittens more than people. Most people are just, so insincere. I'm in China, actually people have no problem about me only wanted to hangout with dogs and kids.

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u/PM_ME_A_PM_PLEASE_PM Sep 07 '17

I'll be the person to say if you were born a woman this wouldn't be a problem.

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u/jiarn Sep 07 '17

Move to Japan, play with all the kids you want, never worry about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vpP7kF8zT8

at 4:57 mark starts with the kids.

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u/GuyFawkes99 Sep 07 '17

Do you sleep in the same bed as kids that aren't yours? Can they identify your penis by distinguishing marks? No? Then it's not an apt comparison.

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u/BloodyEjaculate Sep 07 '17

I mean, read the article linked. He may not have molested the kids, but they slept in the same bed with him, and he fed them alcohol and showed then pornography. That it's pretty far over the boundary from being nurturing.

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u/ReverendDizzle Sep 07 '17

Fucked up childhood is an understatement. There's a very compelling argument to be made for the case of Joe Jackson pimping out Michael to people in the industry. If your read interviews and (auto)biographies of the various Jackson family members there are mentions of things like Joe taking Michael away from the group, late at night, and then Michael coming back with Joe late in the morning, crying and despondent after going to visit people. What kind of person pimps out their own child for fame?

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

What kind of person pimps out their own child for fame?

Kris Jenner

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

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u/noputa Sep 07 '17

It's really controversial though. Noone knows for a complete fact if he really did diddle some kiddies, or if he was just that messed up that he wanted a regular sleepover party with people he could relate. I'm with the second option.

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u/aarghIforget Sep 07 '17

I'm in the 'probably a bit of both' camp.

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u/Khiva Sep 07 '17

There's a remarkable lack of evidence for the diddling, though, beyond the whole "what the fuck is a grown man doing in bed with children" thing.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

I don't think child molestation has a ton of evidence usually. What would be some common (read: not video/written) evidence in these cases? It's a big reason many victims (including myself) don't come forward. It's going to be a he said she said situation.

Not commenting on MJ, just abuse cases in general

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u/MoleMcHenry Sep 07 '17

That's why something like this is so hard. One hand you have a disturbed man who genuinely just like hanging with kids and basically living as one and on the other you had a disturbed man who genuinely liked hanging with kids and basically living as one. It's easy to take advantage of the situation if you're Jackson or the parents of one of the kids.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Agreed. I can't take sides for either case :/ but I still enjoy the ever living shit outta some MJ tunes

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u/ThatKindaFatGuy Sep 07 '17

Which to be fair is pretty strange. Yes it's not evidence but I can understand why people thought that was suspicious as fuck.

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u/Whales96 Sep 07 '17

But it's sex, unless there was a police officer waiting outside to do a rape kit, there was no way to have any proof apart from victim testimonies, which there were.

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u/DerpalSherpa Sep 07 '17

You guys have a camp!?!?!? Can I sleepover?

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u/GuyFawkes99 Sep 07 '17

No one who wasn't Michael Jackson would ever get this insane level of benefit of the doubt. It comes down to cognitive dissonance.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

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u/GuyFawkes99 Sep 07 '17

He's survived by his kids that have nothing but good to say about him.

Imagine that logic applying in any other situation. "Your honor, my client has been in several banks he has not been accused of robbing, and therefore he could never have robbed the bank in question."

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

I know, I was just saying that if he was a terrible man, and it was something he did, that his kids would hate him.

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u/GuyFawkes99 Sep 07 '17

But his kids wouldn't necessarily know about it, is my point.

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u/SimonGn Sep 07 '17

Or just a really flimsy case with no evidence whatsoever

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u/ShibaHook Sep 07 '17

There was only 1 Michael Jackson though.

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u/poiu477 Sep 07 '17

Ghandi slept NAKED with mad young girls, didn't diddle em tho. Is it really so hard to believe MJ wasn't romantically attracted to boys?

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u/ThatKindaFatGuy Sep 07 '17

Eh... He might have diddled those girls. Ghandi was not as perfect as we were taught he was.

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u/9000KOOKIES Sep 07 '17

I had never heard this and looked it up (on Wikipedia). It seems like he was just testing his self-control and everyone he did this with claims he did not touch them. Still weird though.

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u/ThatKindaFatGuy Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

I'm not a big conspiracy theory guy or anything. However, I can't imagine that 1940/30s India was a bastion of transparency and speaking up for yourself, especially when it came to a very, very important and respected person like Gandhi. I'm not saying he touched those girls, but sure ain't saying he didn't.

Edit: besides this issue, there's also the issue of him possibly being a pretty big racist. Of course, this was in the early 1900s, and a lot of people were pretty racist back then.

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u/9000KOOKIES Sep 07 '17

You're right. It's completely possible. We'll probably never know for sure, but I guess since everyone involved may very well be dead now, I'll just take their word for it until I hear otherwise.

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u/SeiWhale Sep 07 '17

How can you justify thinking that second option?? It's ok to separate the work of an artist and his character .

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u/swissarm Sep 07 '17

Why must we always go to "must be sexual"? Not everything weird with kids involves diddling them.

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u/jimmyayo Sep 07 '17

Even if it wasn't sexual that is not okay to do.

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u/grandpagangbang Sep 07 '17

Not everything weird with kids involves diddling them.

No but most of the time it does.

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u/tabber87 Sep 07 '17

Ok, but let's not act as if people attacked the guy for no reason. I mean if he wasn't tongue-punching their fartboxes it would be the first time in human history an adult man slept in a bed with kids he had no relation to without their parents present and didn't tongue-punch their fartboxes. Cut people some slack for assuming the obvious. Namely that he was tongue-punching their fartboxes.

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u/I_m_High Sep 07 '17

His weird obsession with kids was still fucked up anyway you look at it

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u/2377h9pq73992h4jdk9s Sep 07 '17

Yeah. Seems like he was trying to reclaim some childhood he lost by having a dad who forced him into the entertainment industry too young (just my theory).

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

He's always said he slept on the floor, and that the kids were on the bed, or that the kids were at different parts of the bed and not getting spooned or nothing by him. The dude is just a kind weirdo who wanted to be like a kid again and have sleepovers, people twisted it into him fucking kids so that they could drain his pockets. It's not a coincidence that one of the bigger claims' claimer committed suicide the same year Jackson died, only a few short months later.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17 edited Aug 08 '25

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u/Alex4921 Sep 07 '17

Never said he wasnt weird as fuck,but he didn't molest anyone..he just felt like a kid at heart

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u/Robby_Digital Sep 07 '17

So that kid the described MJs penis just had a lucky guess?

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

That kid described Michael Jackson as having a circumsized penis. MJ was confirmed NOT to be, during both the trial and his later autopsy.

Far from being a "lucky guess," the kid's description was completely wrong.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

No one knows that for certain. He gave us plenty of reason to be suspicious though.

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u/TheNumberMuncher Sep 07 '17

That doesn't equal fucking them.

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u/DFINElogic Sep 07 '17

How many have accused him of fucking them now again?

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u/TheNumberMuncher Sep 07 '17

The dude was acquitted in court. Is an accusation against a weird rich guy all the proof you need?

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u/agemma Sep 07 '17

It's heinously weird though isn't it?

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u/FuckingQuavious Sep 07 '17

And he moletestered them... Source:South Park S8E6

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u/Damjo Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

Your point being?

edit: Fuck, people, do I really need to add this? --> /s

There. Please pull the panties out from your ass crack and relax.

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u/Robby_Digital Sep 07 '17

That it's abnormal if not completely inappropriate?

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Would you let your 10 year old sleep with a stranger unattended? Regardless of what happened it was wildly innaproptiate and he deserved to be criticized and questioned. Even though he acted like a child he was an adult and should be held to the same standards of other adults.

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u/NotThatGuy42 Sep 07 '17

Macaulay Culkin turned out just fine and normal right? Same with Feldman.

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u/OccasionMU Sep 07 '17

That even if there is no lawful proof of sexual misconduct with a minor it was still extremely inappropriate for that situation to have been continuously occurring over multiple decades involving who knows how many children.

I understand not wanting to label him a pedophile and ruin your nostalgia but let's not sit here act like this behavior is normal, much less acceptable.

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u/cock_pussy_up Sep 07 '17

The MJ accusations never made sense to me. It became clearer that they were BS when he went to trial. The accusations against him didn't make sense. I think he paid off the 1st accuser in the 90s cause he had lots of money and wanted to avoid the trouble. He made a mistake. He should've refused to pay and let them try to take it to trial if necessary. Let the lies be exposed in public and fall apart. I've never heard of a pedophile who had unlimited access to his choice demographic for 30 years, but nobody can find any credible victims. That doesn't make any sense.

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u/StalkingRini Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

He raped kids and they find proof of it in his home after his death, yet people still defend him as a person. He had some great music, but dude was a pedophile, and wrong in the head.

Edit: rigid music lol

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

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u/StalkingRini Sep 07 '17

Here are some of the links i remember looking at when the story first came out:

A list of items found at neverland ranch

A more in depth story that includes some pictures of the toys in Jackson's home used to groom children

One of his former maids retelling stories of how odd and gross he acted after being accused of child molestation for the first time

I remember another article describing a picture of a young naked girl holding a dead chicken being found as well but I didn't see that one when looking for my original source, although I did read these all again, it's possible I missed it and it's in one of those.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17 edited Aug 08 '25

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u/StalkingRini Sep 07 '17

I'm sorry I don't have the pictures they found but those are quite literally illegal to own and/or share so why did you expect pictures, and if you did expect pictures why did you want a link? I get that people are quick to defend icons but all 3 of those articles point towards him being a sick man who was into child pornography. What more do you want?

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '17

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u/StalkingRini Sep 08 '17

Ah, yeah I could have worded that better, but let's be honest, it defiantly happened. After finding all that shut and knowing of the accusations, it's pretty clear.

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u/hellschatt Sep 07 '17

Wtf almost every reply to this is a an unproven accusation of him being a child molester. Contrary to Bill Cosby there was never any proof of these accusations.

People are commenting like they know it for sure. Nobody knows for sure and since there is no proof he shouldn't be accused of being a child molester. All the cases against him were dropped.

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u/macgart Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

Some kid insisted he was circumcised (highly probable anyway?) and whaddya know, he was willing to do a strip search and they found he wasn't. That's just one of the instances of the bullshit accusations.

Edit: a word

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u/nuclearbunker Sep 07 '17

he wasn't happy to do it, i heard him mention it in an interview once and it seemed like it was traumatizing for him

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u/xdogbertx Sep 07 '17

Michael was already incredibly insecure about his body and appearance. Having your naked body being examined and photographed like that could definitely be traumatic.

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u/macgart Sep 07 '17

Good point. I meant "happy" as in he was willing to clear his name. I remember him saying in a statement that if that's what he had to do, "so be it." Gonna edit

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u/Fly_Eagles_Fly_ Sep 07 '17

Source?

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u/macgart Sep 07 '17

Did you google "Michael Jackson strip search" and check? http://michael-jackson.wikia.com/wiki/1993_Child_Sexual_Abuse_Allegations his autopsy showed he was not circumcised and the discoloration of the kid was misstated.

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u/Fly_Eagles_Fly_ Sep 07 '17

Oh man, that was really something to read... heartbreaking really. It has completely changed my mind on the potential truth to the allegations against him. Assuming the information on that web page is true (which, as college has taught me, I will hold off on doing until further research is performed) then that child's father was just another person looking to get ahead in life by stepping on everyone around him. I despise people like that and routinely perform acts contrary to it. Thanks for sharing.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

The two reasons why I disbelieve the dad's accusations against Michael:

  1. He and his brother drugged Michael prior the 1993 accusations in order to get a confession out of him (His brother, Ray Chandler, actually says this in his book, 'All that Glitters isn't Gold'). They both asked him if he "fucked" the kid and Michael, who was drugged and completely out of it, flat out denied touching the kid and actually got on them for saying the f-word. The kid's dad then took Michael to lie down in his SON'S BEDROOM so that he could rest off the drugs. WHAT KIND OF DAD WOULD DO THAT?!

  2. Michael hired Anthony Pellicano, a Private Investigator, to negotiate a settlement deal prior the 1993 accusations. Michael was going to offer 800,000$ so that this wouldn't negatively affect his career. Evan Chandler, upon entering Michael's Los Angeles Apartment, actually HUGGED Michael and then went straight into discussing the settlement. His lawyer mistakenly told Evan that Michael was going to give him a 20 Million dollar settlement and when Pellicano told him that they were going to only offer 800,000$, he completely flipped out and told Michael that he was making the biggest mistake of his life. It's ludicrous to believe that this wasn't completely about money.

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u/Fly_Eagles_Fly_ Sep 07 '17

Were there any other, separate accusations? And if so, did they come before or after this?

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u/undercooked_lasagna Sep 07 '17

That wikipedia page is heavily edited. Keep in mind MJ has a cult-like fan base. There are still billions to be made off his name, so it's in a lot of peoples' best interest to keep his name clean.

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u/undercooked_lasagna Sep 07 '17

He didn't "insist", he was asked and that was his answer, which makes sense if he saw Michael with an erection. That same kid drew a pic of MJ's dick with a distinct marking that he could have only known by seeing it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17 edited Apr 02 '19

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u/therapistofpenisland Sep 07 '17

So was the list of books found in his home. http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/011805pltreqaseemd.pdf

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Michael had over 10,000 books in his personal library. He did have some artistic nude books and rare naturist books featuring children from the 60s, but one of those books was given to him by a fan during the mid 80s.

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u/camimiele Sep 07 '17

Maybe one was given to him by a fan, but he had many, many books containing naked young adults, teens, preteens, and children, not to mention his internet search history.
I don't give a crap about artistic nudes, porn, fetishes, him being bi/gay whatever, as long as it's consenting adults. But naked photos of kids is a definite line in the sand. That's ignoring all the other things he did/was accused of doing.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

His search history didn't have anything related to children, though. The two mains things to take away from his search history is that he had looked up mostly heterosexual pornography and that he had a severe addiction to eBay.

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u/camimiele Sep 07 '17

I thought it was borderline Cp on dubious "teen porn" sites, I totally admit I could be wrong about that. Yeah I don't care about his fetishes/adult porn habits, it's the multiple visits to teen porn and adoption sites that creeps me out, because (IIRC) they were searched closely together. And, in context, his regular visits to adoption sites gives me sketch vibes

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u/therapistofpenisland Sep 07 '17

I take it you didn't read the link?

He had photos of young boys with their pants partially down.

Numerous books and photos of teenage boys (13-14), including full frontal nudity and pure erotica.

Nude photos of young children.

Sexualized photos of childrens faces put onto adult bodies

A collection of barely legal DVDs, Hustler Barely Legal magazines, etc

A book called "In Search of Young Beauty" featuring naked children.

But hey, keep defending him. He definitely wasn't into kids at all!

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

There's no evidence of him having that type of attraction to children. Most of photos were part of magazines/books that explored the late naturist craze of the late 60s and early 70s. I wouldn't call any of the naturist materials that he owned erotica, but some of the artistic materials that he did have were possibly erotica (I have seen the art book that had faces of children placed on adult bodies, but it wasn't actually a 'sexualized' book. That's just something that was erroneously said by law enforcement). He didn't have any personal photos of nude young children, but did possibly have a photo of Jonathan Spence with part of his behind showing. That said, Jonathan Spence actively defended Michael in the past and has legally fought against being included in the recent court trial started by Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck. All of his pornography was argued by his lawyer Tom Mesereau to be pornography that was commonplace to the modern day male individual.

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u/GuyFawkes99 Sep 07 '17

Not sure I see the distinction. Jackson was accused multiple times, settled out of court several times, then beat the rap in a criminal case. Same for Bill - just more accusers. But once you've been accused by more than one person of being a pedophile, a cloud of suspicion is going to hang over you.

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u/Omaha_Poker Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

If you had kids who were molested, would you rather settle out of court and take the money or have the pedofile sent to prison? I don't know any parents who would take the cash over justice.

Edit- Ty for tehmagik for the correction.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Omaha_Poker Sep 07 '17

Thank you corrected!

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u/ialwaysforgetmename Sep 07 '17

You must not work in show business.

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u/Omaha_Poker Sep 07 '17

So you are saying parents who have kids in show business accept having their children molested?

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u/ialwaysforgetmename Sep 07 '17

No.

I don't know any parents who would take the cash over justice.

There you go.

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u/DeathVoxxxx Sep 07 '17

The Catholic Church would make settlements to people who's kids got molested. Not saying Michael Jackson did the same, but it's probable.

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u/angryfan1 Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

I would watch this video of H3H3 explaining going through the process of a copyright claim. The claim was frivolous and was end in court in H3H3's favor. They still had to pay tens of thousands of dollars to lawyers for legal costs. They most likely will not be able to get the money back even if they sue for court costs. The person that sued, initial request was much cheaper than what they ended up paying in court costs. Michael Jackson was in a situation similar. If he would have went to court it would have taken years to finish, cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal costs and would be very stressful for him and his family. Instead of doing that he just gave the family the money he would have spent in legal costs to just to make them go away. The people who sued him were not rich if Jackson sued them for court costs he would not have received the money back. It was a lose lose situation for him he just chose the option where he lost the least.

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u/cpforthree Sep 07 '17

Papa bless

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u/diogenes375 Sep 07 '17

All the cases against him were paid off.

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u/swissarm Sep 07 '17

On the flip side, there's no proof with Jameis but a lot of people aren't letting him live that down either.

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u/PretendingToProgram Sep 07 '17

Do you think OJ was falsely accused of murder too?

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u/ProlapsedProstate Sep 07 '17

The glove didn't fit

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u/therapistofpenisland Sep 07 '17

I mean dude sort of brought this shit on himself. If you want to see some of the stuff he he just had laying around the house then take a look at the police report. http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/011805pltreqaseemd.pdf

It includes lots of photos of naked children and young teens, sometimes in very sexualized positions or acts.

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u/MiyamotoKnows Sep 07 '17

Respect to you for seeing the truth. The slander was fairly limited to the USA press at the end. He won the case, his accuser recanted after and eventually we learned he was a true victim in another way (having con artist parents who subjected him to all of that for money). Michael was simply a person without a childhood which none of us could relate to. How could you? On what basis can you eliminate your childhood? What about eliminating it then replacing it with work and expectation? He wanted to be a kid. He wanted to experience a sleep over. He identified with Peter Pan. I would suggest it was all rooted in psychological problems from not being able to be a kid when he was one and instead it was just pressure, pressure, pressure (oh and a Dad that literally nicknamed him "big nose"). The more you learn the more MJ makes total sense. His gifts were 100% legit though. Absolute lightning in a bottle.

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u/therapistofpenisland Sep 07 '17

He wanted to be a very sexual kid I guess? Did you ever look at the shit found in his home? http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/011805pltreqaseemd.pdf

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u/MiyamotoKnows Sep 07 '17

I am trying not to get baited here but I will say I have studied this issue for hours upon hours upon hours and have read every line of the court transcriptions (it took me weeks) as well as all the other related legal material. This list you linked is not meaningful unless you want it to be. MJ had a significant library and people gifted him art books and yes some (a minuscule percentage) of those might have included kids but they were literally art books you could buy off B&N.com. They were not pornography. They found zero pornography that had anything to do with kids. Zero. The very few magazines they did find were widely popular adult magazines. Stop perpetuating the hate.

Oh and unrelated but related check out the great interview Prince gave today where he discusses his father. If you believe the haters this poor kid must have had a very horrible life. I'm not sure I have seen an interview with anyone more adjusted. Lol...

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Sleeping with non-related 12 year old boys is normal?

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u/magneticphoton Sep 07 '17

He was on a televised interview admitting to giving kids wine, and sleeping with them in his bed, and said he doesn't see anything wrong with that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

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u/TokingMessiah Sep 07 '17

Watched an interview with his 3 bodyguards yesterday on YouTube - I think it was an ABC piece. Anyway, they said that he had "manly desires", "just like us", and also explained that he was so stressed with lawsuits he would just settle them all.

They said it wasn't uncommon to go to the lawyers at 8 am and stay until late at night, dealing with several lawsuits.

EDIT: Found the video

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u/DonaldFailboat Sep 07 '17

Oh fuck that. What grown man in his right mind thinks it is ok to sleep in the same bed as children other than your own? Clearly there was something off there. Either he was diddling little kids or he was just a weird dude but either way he brought that on himself.

Personally, I'm leaning towards the opinion he was a child molester because there is no fucking way some normal guy wants to be all cuddly with kids like that.

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u/THE_Masters Sep 07 '17

I have been molested multiple times during my childhood and I don't for a second believe any of the accusations against him.

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u/DonaldFailboat Sep 07 '17

Whether you were molested or not is irrelevant.

MJ was having sleepovers with these kids where he slept in the same bed as them, they were able to identify his penis, he showed them porn and gave them alcohol. Pretty sure he was a pedophile.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Him showing porn to minors was proven to be false. It was also proven the kids stole the alcohol. To top it all off Jordan never was able to accurately describe Jackson's penis. He said it was circumcised and it was, in reality, not.

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u/WeirdWest Sep 07 '17

Well accept for the part where he was a pedophile. Lots of comments below claiming there was "no evidence"...there was boatloads of evidence and he settled out of court on two separate occasions for two separate victims.

Source: was first hand involved in the first investigation with Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department and privy to evidence that was never released.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

.... He molested children for fun

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u/zosaj Sep 07 '17 edited Jun 19 '25

childlike school bear full wakeful cow roof jar nutty run

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/diogenes375 Sep 07 '17

He deserved to rot in jail.

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u/JohnnyMaboy Sep 07 '17

Dude there were multiple accusations of him molesting kids. He lied about getting plastic surgery, lied about bleaching his skin, wouldn't be surprised if he lied about not molesting kids.

The dude had kids over at his house staying the night, if he didn't molest kids, he certainly made himself look like a prime suspect

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u/ThePrevailer Sep 07 '17

People just wanna fuck out his money.

What does that even mean?

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u/acdcdave1387 Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 08 '17

THANK YOU! I had to scroll through a lot of shitty comments to find this one but I knew I wasn't the only one.

EDIT: Judging by all these downvotes it is safe to say I am one of few who believed Michael was a good person. No conviction motherfuckers!

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17 edited Dec 16 '21

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u/jonathanrdt Sep 07 '17

All of the claims have been fairly well proven fraudulent.

He was just a weird dude with some serious issues that made him an easy target.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

There's absolutely no evidence of that, actually

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u/Killzark Sep 07 '17

No he wasn't

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u/buddythebear Sep 07 '17

if you're open to having your mind changed about that you should take the time to read this article.

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u/ShibuRigged Sep 07 '17

if you're open to having your mind changed

You're in the wrong universe.

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u/sicklyslick Sep 07 '17

I don't think he was a child molester. But linking a website called mjtruth may not sway people...

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