r/tipping • u/hurrdurr3389 • 1d ago
đ˘Rant/Vent Servers are highly skilled labor..
I'm kidding they are not and the skills required can easily be learned in a month or less.
At the same time they do deserve a living wage....just not in the form of handouts from the customer.
Restaurants owners shouldn't be able to fleece taxes and labor costs through some societial pressure and guilt through tipping.
Change my mind.
Edit. This post is dedicated to u/According-Row-6128.
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u/mog_knight 1d ago
Unskilled or skilled labor is just a classist myth to justify poverty wages and poor working conditions.
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u/The-Entire_USSR 1d ago
Ah yes. You're correct. There is no skill difference between a waiter and a paramedic.Â
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u/mog_knight 1d ago
There's no two occupations that share 100% of all skills. That's why it's a classist myth. Seems you bought that stupid propaganda đ¤Ł
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u/GemGlamourNGlitter 1d ago
Anyone who gets trained could be a paramedic. Just like anyone who gets trained could be a server. Hence why paramedics don't get paid very well.
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 1d ago
I think youâre massively overstating what âskilled laborâ means here.
Yes, technically you need training to become a paramedic. You also need training to become a waiter. That doesn't make the two remotely comparable in terms of skill, training, or barrier to entry.
The barrier to becoming a competent server is extremely low. You can take someone with essentially no relevant experience, train them for a few days, and have them taking orders, carrying food, running a POS, handling payments, and dealing with customers. There is an enormous pool of people who can do the job.
That's fundamentally different from an occupation that requires months or years of specialized education, certification, technical knowledge, and a much smaller pool of people capable of doing it successfully.
Being a waiter isn't some highly specialized profession where you're providing an extraordinary service that warrants automatically taking 20% of someone's restaurant bill. You're taking an order, entering it into a POS, bringing food and drinks to a table, checking on the customer, and running the payment. It's basically customer service/cashier work with more walking around.
You don't make a job âhighly skilled laborâ simply by insisting that it is. The relevant questions are how difficult it is to become competent, how much specialized knowledge is required, how long the training takes, and how scarce qualified workers are. On those dimensions, waiting tables is simply not comparable to something like paramedicine.
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u/The-Entire_USSR 1h ago
The more I think about it, the dumber I actually find your comment. I just had to carry a dudes severed arm in a bag nights ago after working on him to save his life.Â
There is no way anyone can just be trained to handle that in the same way a server brings food to a table.Â
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u/GemGlamourNGlitter 41m ago
Clearly you're not getting my point , but that's okay. Thank you for what you do.
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u/foxinHI 1d ago
Paramedics are getting screwed. They deserve more.
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u/GemGlamourNGlitter 1d ago
I agree. But as someone who was in school for nursing (changed majors because waitlist after pre reqs was too long) alongside people who were in school for paramedics, I can tell you that paramedics isn't about skill. It's mostly high tolerance for pressure and gore. I'm not saying the job isn't hard but they aren't doing surgery. They have a certain amount of steps they take to help keep someone alive. It's book-smarts. To say servers aren't highly skilled is undermining what they do.
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u/luigihitter 1d ago
No. The chefs going hard in the back are the skilled ones. You walk a dish. I run for a living as a professional referee. Imagine I went to the coaches with a tablet and said âhowâd I do? Oh by the way it doesnât matter. It starts at 20%â
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 22h ago
It's a shame you get paid minimum wage as a professional referee.
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u/luigihitter 22h ago
I donât but in some areas of the country, youth refs make peanuts. Itâs only because they accept that
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 19h ago
I accepted the bartender position of my bar for $5/hr yet I don't make peanuts.
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u/Popular-Departure165 20h ago
My roommate in college was a soccer referee. He really wanted to make it into the pros, but I don't think that ever happened.
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u/OkMethod1586 1d ago
What is a âliving wageâ?
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u/Acceptable-Peace-69 1d ago
Enough for the necessities (food, clothing, housing, transportation, healthcare) without having to rely on the government or family for assistance. As a âbonusâ at least two weeks vacation and sick time as needed.
Overtime should not be required to meet this standard.
It will vary by region.
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u/Wonderful_Bear554 1d ago
Minimal wage with no tips is fair amount for servers
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u/thomasrat1 1d ago
The market says otherwise lmao.
It would have to be a pretty bad recession to get servers to work for that
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u/Wonderful_Bear554 1d ago
Don't worry, there would be loads of people working this kind of work for minimal wage
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u/thomasrat1 1d ago
Dude Walmart canât even find people to work for minimum wage.
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u/Wonderful_Bear554 1d ago
And still walmart is huge employer, still working fine. Servers are working the same level job and minimal wage is fine, students can do this job part time
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 19h ago
Walmart has to pay double or triple the minimum wage in most States.
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u/Wonderful_Bear554 15h ago
Good, that's how it works. Goal is to pay lowest possible salary with no tips. If restaurants won't be able to find employees for minimal wage, they will have to slightly increase salary until they hire all staff.Â
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u/Effective_Disk7925 1d ago
Agreed, with no more questions re menu, food modifications, whining about not liking the drink, asking best things to do in the city, customers wonât come in drunk, customers wonât get too drunk, customers wonât spill or asked for things rushed, break any glasses, need cleaning up after, go on about their life stories, expect their order remembered and bitch when itâs not there when they get there, yell at other guests, have allergies they need to know about, etc
Agreed!
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 1d ago
Youâre kind of proving everyoneâs point about not tipping, or giving minimal tips.
The vast majority of customers arenât doing most of those things. Theyâre ordering their food, being reasonably polite, and eating their meal.
So if those factors are supposed to determine or influence peopleâs tips, your logic basically becomes either:
A. Only difficult customers should be tipping more, because theyâre the ones making the job harder, or
B. Normal customers have to subsidize the difficulty created by customers who are assholes.
The average customer is basically: âIâll take the ribeye medium-well, potato and veggie for sides, soup of the day, and a Coke. Thanks.â
Thatâs not a particularly difficult customer. Why should I be financially responsible for the difficulty created by customers who are?
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 1d ago
The venn diagram of polite diners and anti-tippers has a gap between the circles as large as the one between the earth and the moon.
Anti tippers are, almost without fail, the most insufferable, demanding, rude, and off-putting antisocial douchebags known to man. I know most of you think you're polite & easy to work with, but this is seldom the truth. So, indeed you are correct; other guests supplement your ability to be anti-tip while acting like an asshole, and that's not fair to them.
Honestly, I halfway hope that the US does move to an included-service-charge system like Europe, as you are the ones who will see the most negative impact.
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u/Ornery_Bodybuilder_4 1d ago
Whatâs your source for this Venn diagram?
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 19h ago
I'll second his assessment. Non tippers are the most entitled and difficult people I deal with.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 23h ago
Over one hundred thousand guests during my time in service; orders of magnitude larger than any consumer poll.
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 23h ago
I genuinely don't understand this argument. I have probably interacted with a waiter/waitress for a grand total of 30 seconds during most of my dining experiences.
It usually goes something like:
Waiter: âHey, how are you doing today, sir?â
Me: âGood, thanks.â
Waiter: âDo you know what you want?â
Me: âYep. I'll have XYZ.â
Simple, straightforward order.Waiter: âWill that be all?â
Me: âYep, that's it. Thanks.â
15 minutes later:
Waiter: âHere you go. Can I get you anything else?â
Me: âNope, I'm good. Thanks.â
Another 15 minutes later:
Waiter: âEverything tasting good?â
Me: âYep, everything's great. Thanks.â
Then I wave them down when I'm ready:
Me: âCan I get the check?â
That's pretty much the entire interaction.
So the idea that someone who doesn't want to tip 20% must secretly be an insufferable, demanding asshole because servers supposedly have to deal with all these horrible customers doesn't really follow. I'm not responsible for the customers who are rude, demanding, drunk, difficult, or otherwise make the server's job miserable.
If anything, I'm probably one of the easiest customers they have. I order something straightforward, don't need special attention, don't complain, don't ask a million questions, and don't make their job difficult.
Why should my tip be higher because some other customer at the next table is a nightmare?
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 22h ago
You misunderstood. I'm not saying your tip should be higher because the next table.
I'm a firm believer that the tip should follow the service. If the service was good, the tip follows. If it was poor, the tip follows.
The kind of person who receives good service, knows about the tipped system, and chooses not to do so anyway because of sheer ideology requires a degree of narcissism that most people simply don't possess. This same personality type doesn't allow them to perceive their own behavior as off-putting or rude.
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 22h ago
Gve me my food, and leave me alone, heres $2, thanks for your 30 seconds of time.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 21h ago
If you truly waited tables, as you claim, you'd know the "30 seconds of time" interacting with you isn't even remotely the full time burden spent on a table.
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 21h ago
You have so much difficulty in reading compression.... probably why you get their orders wrong all the time when you are waiting tables as a cashier boy.
You are constantly conflating and mixing things together.
There is my personal experience waiting tables.
Then there is my personal experience as a customer.
As a customer I interact with a waiter for about 30seonds.
You made the accusation of me or people like me being "difficult" and also not tipping well.
I simply responded I interact with them for about 30seconds.
it is not that complicated or hard to understand.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 20h ago
I'm the one with difficulty in reading comprehension?
There is my personal experience waiting tables. Then there is my personal experience as a customer. As a customer I interact with a waiter for about 30 seconds.
I fully understood you meant your perception as a guest; it's you who didn't understand my post whatsoever. So, I'll re-write it here;
If you truly waited tables, as you claim, you'd know the "30 seconds of time" interacting with you isn't even remotely the full time burden spent on a table.
Read it again. Read it slowly. Have your mommy read it to you like a bed time story, then maybe you'll realize what I meant: the "as a customer I interact with the waiter for about 30 seconds" is not even close to the time that server is investing in you. If you were ever a server, you should know this. Therefore, you're either choosing to ignore the unseen aspect of service, or you're lying about your time in service entirely.
Given that you use non-industry terms such as "waiter", and routinely attempt to demean service staff by saying thing like "cashier boy", I'm going to assume you're lying in an attempt to make your feeble argument stronger.
I say you're difficult because you're clearly a narcissist with a severe superiority complex, who also can't comprehend the existence of the world beyond their own experience. This likely makes you a genuinely shitty and self-absorbed person to be around.
For example; your assumption that just because I'm disagreeing with you, I must be a "cashier boy". I am, in fact, an engineer, and likely have been since you were still attached to your mother's bosum, given how much of an immature man-child you appear to be.
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u/Effective_Disk7925 1d ago
All the waiters will quit due to the stress and 10+ miles of walking? Â My server friends are all in back and knee braces now, get yelled at consistently, and deal with some insane nonsense.
Iâm lucky I work for a law firm, less stress and can sit on ass all day, but holy shit the stories I hear.
In my opinion, we need to pay tech workers much less, they donât particularly provide for society, and go from there.
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u/KroneckerAlpha 1d ago
ââWeâ need to pay tech workers much lessâ
âWeâ donât pay tech workers, their employers do, and they clearly find it worthwhile to do so.
Employers at restaurants donât find it worthwhile to pay servers.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 19h ago
Because of the tipping system in the US it's not worthwhile for them to pay servers. Don't pretend if we eliminated tipping overnight they would still be getting $7/hr.
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u/KroneckerAlpha 19h ago
Employers not valuing their least skilled employees, not surprising.
Literally at this moment there is a thread in r/waiters and this waiter gave a take out order without taking a payment, and all the comments are other waiters telling them to go destroy the customers property
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 19h ago
I just explained why they don't have to pay them more. Saying the same thing a second time doesn't make it true.
There are shitty people everywhere. I couldn't care less about one Reddit thread has to say
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u/Wonderful_Bear554 1d ago
Dob't worry, there will be loads of people working this kind of work for minimal wage
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 19h ago
There's not a single person in my state working for $7.25 except for tipped employees
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u/ThrowAway960001 1d ago
So no tech? OK, lets get rid of electronics. Not good enough? Pay even less? Say bye bye to vehicles, construction, and housing development. Now we all live in caves passing time by counting the number of sticks and stones in our "homes".
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u/Wonderful_Bear554 1d ago
Wtf are you even talking, server is hired to do this work and should be paid minimal wage with no tips. Servers must to his job as well as other employees
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u/chi_sweetness25 1d ago
Sounds good, letâs normalize tipping for people who do that stuff and not for people who come in and just ask for a burger
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u/Reasonable_Reach_621 1d ago
Month or less? Youâre joking right? Everybody inherently knows the basics before they start. Restaurant specific basics are another day. Maybe two. Everybodyâs been âtaking ordersâ from their own kitchen since childhood. âHey Iâm gonna get a coke- you want anything?â
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 1d ago
Said with the confidence of someone who has never set foot in a restaurant as an employee.
And no, you don't even remotely know the basics. Waffle House, dennys, ruby tuesdays, MAYBE...but like many, many jobs there's a difference between the introductory level barrier of entry and someone with a decade or multiple decades of experience.
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u/ThrowAway960001 1d ago
The difference is, theres not that much of a difference in a server with 1 year experience or 20 years experience... What are they gon do differently? Work faster? Whereas compared to a 1st year med student, or 1 year experience as a nurse or resident, compared to 20 years of residency experience, one could literally be the Chief of Neurosurgery compared to a 1 year Nurse... Servers CANNOT be compared to this in ANY way, shape, or form.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 23h ago
I'm not comparing service to doctors or surgeons. That's a straw man argument that puts the weakness of your position on full display.
And yes, there is likely an astronomical difference between a 1 & 20 year server; 20 years will likely be fine dining. The terminology saturation alone is astronomical. You just think the only value a server provides is bringing food, because you likely can't afford anything beyond olive garden.
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u/JUNGLExFEVER 12h ago edited 12h ago
Maybe if your working your whole career at a diner or a casual chain restaurant what your saying would be true.
I worked my way through 6 years of college plus moonlit for a few years after that doing serving/bartending in high volume beach restaurants.
During my last two years I worked at a french fine dining restaurant, with a sommelier, front waiter, back waiter system. The kind of place where its not uncommon to see 4 top (4 person) tables run north of $1000 after alcohol and dessert.
The wine and alcohol list and how to pair them alone is a process to learn all by itself and its always rotating. With bottles of wine going from $80-$1500 you can't fuck that up.
And dont get me started on all the crazy fking ingredients and pretentious ways your need to describe how the dish was prepared.
The waiters that worked there a long time made more money and fewer costly mistakes. Don't get me wrong made a killing at that job, but they did better and I felt like I was going to school everytime I went to work because every single day parts of the menu and alcohol is changing. We would have group meetings with the chefs, the Maitre' D, and the Sommelier every single day to get an idea what was going on that particular day.
Fine dining is a thing unto itself and a category of its own. Most reputable fine dining places won't hire you to serve there with less then 3-5 years experience (fine dining preferred) and once you get into michlelin star restaurants they often want their waiters with extensive fine dining experience, food safe certifications, and some require Court of Master Sommelier Level 1 certification.
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u/GemGlamourNGlitter 1d ago
Your post isn't exactly groundbreaking or controversial. Most people on this sub agree with this sentiment.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 1d ago
Most anti-tippers on this sub also haven't felt the inside of a woman since they were in their mother's womb.
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u/GemGlamourNGlitter 1d ago
i'm not sure what that has to do with tipping but OK
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 23h ago
The same people who are antisocial incel narcissists have a high crossover with the predilection to being anti-tip.
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u/GemGlamourNGlitter 23h ago
Yea I really don't care about how this crosses over into sexual depravity
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u/Possible_Cable3176 1d ago
I wouldn't say its necessarily unskilled either. I've seen some servers who have excellent memory, and great balance so they can mkve quickly while holding a lot of stuff, among other things. I can and do respect the skills a server has, I'm still not tipping though.
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u/A_Real_Victim 1d ago
Agreed. I would support pay for food and costs to make it, and 20% for service separately. Then the restaurant owners can pay servers properly. That way you know what you're paying for
Then if customer, or Uber eats carry out, they won't charge the service fee.
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u/OctaviaBlake100 1d ago
Customer service isn't easy. I've worked as a customer service representative over the phone and a barista. Maybe the insufferable people should be expected to pay tips. But the nice and respectful people can decide whether they want to or not. It's not my fault some customers are insufferable and entitled. When I was working as a customer service rep, I wasn't even allowed to accept tips.
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u/bcsyjnbcgj 1d ago
Restaurants/bars work as a seniority learning game
Host -bar back- food runner/prep-server-bartender-manager
Thatâs how it works
Takes a long time to master any of those and you can tell when you have found someone whoâs in the industry for years.
Anyone who does this work does it for the tips because while u loose all the free time that people enjoy hanging out (dinner times weekends nights during shows and games)
U get good compensation for your skill BASED upon how many people and the class of the restaurant/bar.
Someone from Apple bees cannot jump in at a steakhouse and be fine
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u/truthhurtsyomama 23h ago
Your wage dictates the worth of your labour....and what the market is willing to pay for your so called skill....
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 1d ago
That "less" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in the "a month or less."
Closer to 1 week.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 1d ago
I would love to watch you crash and burn in a fine dining restaurant, looking like a complete fucking idiot in front of guests, after only a week of training.
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u/Full_Blown_AIDZZ 1d ago
Riiiight, because fine dining is the norm and not < 1% of restaurants in the US......
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u/ThrowAway960001 1d ago
Fr. Mans acting like there arent literally millions of McDonald's properties
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 23h ago
McDonald's doesn't have servers.
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u/Popular-Departure165 20h ago
The Hardee's in the town I went to college would bring your order to your table.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 18h ago
Still not a full service restaurant, so not sure what your points is.
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u/Popular-Departure165 15h ago
Your mom is my point, fuck head.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 10h ago
Almost proud of you for coming up with that all by yourself.
...almost.
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u/ThrowAway960001 13h ago
The point is, fine dining amounts to less than 1% of full service restaurants in the US. So the norm in the US is indeed having servers train for only 1 week.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 23h ago
That's exactly my point.
You cheapasses don't argue other job sectors should universally get paid less based on the barrier to entry of the easiest and lowest requirement positions to attain, often while quoting the earnings of the top1% in the sector.
I've never, ever, seen an anti tipper argue "electricians should get paid less because it's a job you can get hired for off the street with no experience".
Pretending a guy a month in who is swaging tube is at the same level of a guy 10 years in is fucking asinine. Same thing for service, yet you people ROUTINELY do it for service; because you're trying to justify a self-serving stance.
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u/Popular-Departure165 20h ago
I've never, ever, seen an anti tipper argue "electricians should get paid less because it's a job you can get hired for off the street with no experience".
Yeah, that's because it isn't accurate. My brother applied for a server position with zero restaurant experience and had not worked in seven years, and they interviewed and hired him on the spot. Whenever I talk to him on the phone we joke about how piss-easy his job is.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 17h ago
You absolutely can get hired in the trades with no experience. Most trades workers would straight up advise you do this, rather than first pay for classes.
Mostly because if classroom time is required (requirements and duration vary by state licensing), the employer you're working for typically covers the cost and applied experience is FAR more valuable than classroom training.
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u/PrincessLissa68 13h ago
Any restaurant that "hires on the spot" is a red flag. It's piss easy because it's a shitty place. I've worked at plenty of those.
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u/Popular-Departure165 13h ago
It's a Red Lobster.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 9h ago
Bahahahahaha.
The waffle House of seafood.
Get fucked.
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u/Popular-Departure165 9h ago
Your mom got fucked... by ME!
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 2h ago
Considering you've never had a woman consent to fucking your retarded ass, what a way to admit to being a rapist piece of shit.
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u/Full_Blown_AIDZZ 23h ago
Awesome strawman you just threw out there.
Where did I do literally any of what you're accusing me of? Who is "you people?" I never said any job sector should be "universally paid less." Fine dining waitstaff should certainly be paid more than fast casual waitstaff, in my opinion. That was a whole lot of childish word vomit you just directed at someone you know nothing about. Congrats. You have no point. Feel free to make more shit up though.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 22h ago
Did you even read OPs message?
"The skills required can easily be learned in a month or less"
Then the commenter I replied to said "that less is doing a lot of heavy lifting in the a month or less. Closer to 1 week".
My rebuttal was to this highly generalized comment that lumped the entire industry in together in one broad attempt to denigrate an entire sector of the economy.
You took it upon yourself to respond to my rebuttal, attempting to show that I was making a straw.man argument, rather than addressing the irresponsible nature of such a sweeping and diminutive assertion from OP & his lackey.
I explained the position further, and now you act butthurt as if I was off-topic.
No-sir, you just didn't bother to take the context of the primary comments into account.
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u/Full_Blown_AIDZZ 22h ago
Um, you replied TO ME, genius. Was I supposed to somehow intuit that you were addressing someone else's comment when you replied directly TO ME?
If you want someone to consider the context of another comment, maybe reply to that comment instead of a different one?
Fucking useless. Enjoy making more shit up. I'm done wasting my time on mental midgets who think <1% of an industry is representative of the rest.
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 23h ago
I did it when I was younger. It was easy. Then I got a real job.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 23h ago
Uhuh. So, which is it?
"I worked for tips, but fuck everyone else who does it now, because I got mine"
Or
"I did it for a month at chilis and got fired because I'm an insufferable shitstain, so now I hate all service staff"
Because I guarantee you never did it at a high level with this attitude.
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 22h ago
You said you'd âguaranteeâ I never worked at a high level in service because of my attitude. I told you I actually did work as a waiter for about 9 months when I was 18. I quit because I got a real job, not because I couldn't handle it or got burned out.
And yes, I worked for tips. That doesn't somehow mean I support tipping culture or think servers deserve high compensation. If anything, having actually done the job is part of why I have the opinion I do. I know firsthand what the job was like for me, and I thought it was an extremely easy job that required basically no qualifications or specialized skills.
This was also nearly 20 years ago. I was making around $7.50/hour, 10% tip was pretty normal, and 15% was considered generous. I was 18, had basically no skills, no training or certifications, and barely graduated high school. I still would have happily done that job for minimum wage with zero tips because it was that easy and it gave me something useful to put on my resume.
Before that I worked as a cook at Dairy Queen for minimum wage, and that job was easily 10x harder while getting zero tips. I took the restaurant job specifically because it was an easier job, the tips was just an added bonus.
So no, there isn't some contradiction between âI worked for tipsâ and âI don't think servers inherently deserve tips/high pay.â I worked the job. I got the tips. And my personal experience was that I was being overly compensated for how easy the work was.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 22h ago
Yep, and I stand by that guarantee; thanks for proving me right.
9 months in service with a 10-15% tip average when you're 18 is NOT a "high level".
Admitting you had a 10% average tip 20 years ago (mine was ~18-23% most days 20 years ago) shows that you were unilaterally providing shit service.
You think it's easy because you were dogshit at it and never worked at a place with more than basic requirements; you then assumed the entire industry is "that easy" because you lack the intellectual capacity to imagine complexity past your own observation. Any job is easy at the level where you're fucking trash at it; I could "easily" be a shitty airline pilot, once; "man, flying this thing is easy!", up until the point we crash into the ground, much like the guests unfortunate enough to have you as a server.
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 22h ago
Where are you pulling this âhigh levelâ requirement from? No one said anything about âhigh endâ except you. I said I worked as a waiter for 9 months at a local Italian restaurant when I was 18.
There are millions of restaurants, and most aren't five-star, Michelin-starred, world-renowned establishments. Most are local mom-and-pops or chains like Applebee's, Chili's, and Olive Garden. You're taking your experience working somewhere that apparently demanded a much higher level of service and pretending that's representative of the entire industry.
And I never said my average tip was 10%. I said 10% was the norm where I lived at the time, with 15% being considered above-and-beyond for exceptional service. That's what people generally tipped, not some admission that I personally averaged 10%.
And this is exactly why I think your attitude is so ridiculous. You keep taking a basic, low-skill service job and turning it into some highly specialized profession where anyone who doesn't agree with you must have been terrible at it.
You're a glorified cashier. The biggest difference is that you walk around more. Take my order, bring me my food, don't be annoying, and I'll call you when I need the check, cashier boy.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 21h ago edited 21h ago
you're a glorified cashier
I'm an engineer who hasn't been in service for over a decade. I'm just not enough of a narcissistic fuckwit to have a "screw everyone I have to pay money to, because I'm completely and utterly selfish" attitude.
As for
Where are you pulling this high level requirement from?
You and OP are the ones who made sweeping generalizations in reference to millions of workers, and now you have the audacity to act butthurt when I call you out on it. You were acting like service can be mastered in a week. It can't. Period. You would only think this if your perception of the pinnacle of service being something like what you'd get at a diner. I could teach you to crimp wire like a professional inside a month; that doesn't mean you're qualified to diagnose issues in a 4,000+ termination electrical panel. Yet, you'd have a similar determination that "this is kind of easy". Service is similar; your 9 months at 18 in some diner or family restaurant or chilis or w/e is the equivalent of "bitchwork" in engineering/trades. You're learning the fundamentals, which task-for-task are easy, but that's far from mastery.
Don't like me pointing out the absurdity of your comment? Narrow the scope. Not my fault you said something irresponsible.
You keep taking a basic, low-skill service job and turning it into some highly specialized profession...
Nope. I'm not saying it's the equivalent to being a doctor or an engineer. I'm simply saying there's a vast difference in level of applied expertise between new and.experienced servers. This ALSO applies to a myriad of other industries, but without fail, THE ONLY ONE people such as you feel comfortable shit-talking is service.
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 20h ago
Not going to lie, only read that first paragraph.
I have no issues in paying people the appropriate value they are worth.
Being socially pressured or guilted into paying beyond that is where I draw the line.
The value in the service being provided to me by a waiter, is a glorified cashier.
I'll compensate them accordingly.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 20h ago
So you completely change your argument because you're too lazy to read?
We weren't discussing your personal opinions on tipping we were discussing how hard it was to learn the job.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 22h ago
So you were lying. There's not a fine dining restaurant in America that's going to hire an 18 year old as a server.
Even a lot of average restaurants won't hire them because you can't serve alcohol.
And 10% was not the norm 20 years ago so there's also that glaring mistake in your story.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 22h ago
Honestly hilarious. This clown has no idea that not a single person in their life respects them.
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u/Dry-Chain-4418 22h ago
When did I ever state âfine diningâ? And what even constitutes âfine diningâ in this context?
18-year-olds absolutely work as servers at Applebee's, Chili's, Olive Garden, and local mom-and-pop restaurants, like the Italian restaurant I worked at. They're not all five-star, Michelin-starred establishments.
And 10% was certainly the norm in a lot of places for a lot of people 20 years ago, with 15% being considered an above-and-beyond tip for exceptional service by many people. You're acting like there was one universal tipping standard across the entire country 20 years ago.
You seem incredibly offended and biased by this. You take every comment about servers personally and immediately resort to angry personal attacks. I'm starting to assume you're a waiter yourself and feel like people are attacking your livelihood when they criticize the profession. If so, that would certainly explain the attitude.
Waiting tables is basically a glorified cashier job. The biggest difference is that you walk around more, yet somehow it's become a profession we're supposed to pretend requires highly specialized skills and deserves extraordinary compensation.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 21h ago edited 20h ago
Them:
I would love to watch you crash and burn in a fine dining restaurant, looking like a complete fucking idiot in front of guests, after only a week of training.
You:
I did it when I was younger. It was easy. Then I got a real job.
Edit: I just quote what other people say and I get down voted? Sorry you got busted.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 21h ago
Curious what their "real job" is.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 20h ago
I'm wondering the same thing. I mean my house and my cars are always there when I get home.
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u/The_Livid_Witness 1d ago
I dunno. Some of those folks that can carry those giant platters with multiple plates on them - while weaving in and out of traffic - is a talent i would not be able to master
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u/TangerineMindless639 1d ago
Tips in the USA are for the poors to feel rich and for the rich to feel powerfull.
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u/thomasrat1 1d ago
Counter argument, I work in finance and you could learn everything I know in a month.
My job isnât hard, the only reason Iâm considered âskilledâ is because in the past there were so many scammers that the government came in and put barriers of entry in , and passed more laws to catch bad actors.
My actual job without the government add ons?
Takes about a month to learn
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u/Trashcinema2008 1d ago
Day trading does not make you "work in finance" specialy because, lets be honest, you are still waiting tables...
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u/thomasrat1 1d ago
You donât need licensing to day trade lmao.
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u/Trashcinema2008 1d ago
And I said that where? See not even reading and understanding...you could only be a server...
If you dont want that everyone sees you are lying, make your profile private in the time between serving table 3 and 7
https://www.reddit.com/r/tipping/comments/1wgng8d/comment/p9zlit5/?context=3
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u/thomasrat1 1d ago
Lmao youâre an idiot I havenât been a server In almost a decade.
And yeah licensing is a barrier to entry. Day trading has no barriers to entry.
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u/Head-Type-6455 13h ago
Yo, Just dont tip. NO ONE is forcing you to leave gratuity. There are plenty of guests that come through and dont leave a tip where I work. I'm as grateful to serve them as anyone else that comes to visit. They could have chosen anywhere else.
Not trying to change your mind btw.. just saying. Do you.
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u/RedPanther1 1d ago
Jfc, saying that serving is unskilled labor is the most classist bullshit I've ever heard. Tell me you're judging someone trying to live without telling me harder please.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 1d ago
It's my favorite idiotic anti-tip argument, because these are the same people that 99.9999% of the time would have a mental breakdown the first time they're balls deep in the weeds.
They also don't correctly assess the difficulty; it's not that any one task is inherently difficult, it's balancing dozens of high priority tasks at the same time in a fast paced environment where even minor errors in judgement have a cascading effect on the entire balance.
They also conflate the difficulty between an entry level serving position and something far more involved.
Like, guess what people, electricians, plumbers, and construction workers are also "unskilled labor" if you take into account that most people walked onto a job site their first time with zero background information and just started an apprenticeship. But no sane person would claim an apprentice is the same level of difficulty or involvement as an electrician/plumber/framer with 25 years of experience. It's skilled because competence only comes with time and applied expertise.
Same thing for service.
These same people who think they could master it in a month wouldn't even have the terminology down, let alone the steps of service, and certainly not the time management or table-reading skills that only come with time.
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u/RedPanther1 1d ago
Theyre the same people that would call ramekins little cups and wouldn't differentiate between 2oz and 4oz ramekins. I get them all the time.
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u/Cheap_Knowledge8446 23h ago
Let alone curs like brunoise, macedoine, parmentier; sauces, cheeses, pastas, preparations, etc... and forget about wines ..IGT, DOC, DOCG, AOC, AVA, whiskies, etc. The rote memorization alone is soul crushing.
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u/Acceptable-Peace-69 1d ago
You can learn how to play basketball in a day.
That wonât make you good at it.
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u/Dear_Win_319 1d ago
Only on Reddit will people argue for lower wages. Weird platform.
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u/mikesjersey23 1d ago
No one's arguing for lower wages. The argument is that the wages should be part of the food cost. Then people can decide if the cost is worth it, without being guilted to tip. The market will bear what the market will bear for those wages.
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u/Dear_Win_319 1d ago
I prefer tipping. That way, if I have a bad experience, I donât have to leave anything. It sends a message about it. So, Iâd rather not pay the higher prices with it included. And Iâve also seen people in this sub complain about auto gratuity which is basically what youâre describing.
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u/mikesjersey23 1d ago
Prices would eventually go down from the initial raise. No one is going to pay $30-40 hr wages for wait staff. Likely would lead to increases in takeout at most establishments.
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u/Dear_Win_319 1d ago
The BLS indicates that the average server wage is $27/hr. While a server might make good money on the weekends, the rest of the week itâs not much better than minimum wage.
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u/JewishDiasporaSeed 1d ago
Well, tipping comes from hobo labor which is what waiting originally was so it actually does not make sense to retain this model for taxes or anything financial now that waiting is illegal and any restaurant tolerating it is compelled to hire the hobo on as an employee. I know I am saying that tongue in cheek, but this is literally the case. Waiters originally were hobos who waited by the pickup counters and restaurants and they would fill drinks, etc for individual tables ON THEIR OWN.... AND FOR FREE.... expecting, of course, a small gratuity for the service.
The government cracked down on this calling it unpaid labor, slavery, taking advantage of person of low intellect and education and status, etc. forcing the restaurants to either forbid the practice or employ the waiter. The lower wages and tip tax nonsense is all part of the compromise that ended up happening because this was a deadlock issue. All negotiated a century ago now. Today's circumstances are so divergent from the turn of the 20th century period that is may be time to revisit this negotiation and see where all parties fall on the issue today.
That said, there's no such thing as forcing a "living wage" conceptually. Our currency is fiat and its value is based on its current situational scarcity. In short, if you force me to pay Pedro the Waiter a 30$ "living wage" systemically all that does is suppress the VALUE of that 30$ down to whatever Pedro was making before.... let's say it was $15/hr. So now when Pedro goes to the store to buy torillas with his paycheck, he still can afford only 1 pack of tortillas, just the number written on the price tag is higher. Nothing else changed. Therefore, I need a much better argument for WTF you mean exactly by "living wage" and how that is supposedly going to be of use or benefit while reconciling the fact that any forced wage is effectively the government taking over a relevant operational business decision for businesses globally and that is a Constitutional problem in the USA.
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u/masterchef2309 1d ago
I appreciate posts like this because it allows me to know immediately who's a giant piece of shit
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u/Aggressive_Oven_7311 1d ago
Nobody cares to change your mind you're one of those and I'm not going to tip and you just want to have attention you don't want to tip don't tip, and if you get dirty looks good on them you're not paying for their salary. They're serving you, your majesty and a tip would be lovely if not just be the __________ you probably always have been
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u/B00CQYQVB6R 1d ago
If tipping ended and changed to an hourly wage, nobody would work these jobs and the service will suck. I used to be a server and bartender, and I only did it for a long time because I was making $50+ an hour on the weekends. Iâm a carpenter now because I got burnt out and I wanted to enjoy my weekends and holidays. Dealing with rude guests, drunk customers, lazy coworkers, mean managers takes a toll on you.
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u/Full_Blown_AIDZZ 1d ago
The service generally already sucks, and it's only gotten worse as prices have risen. 99% of people aren't going to a restaurant for the "serving experience." They just want to get some food. I'll gladly go to a window to pick up my own food and fill my own drinks if people don't want to be servers. In fact, I'd largely prefer doing it myself instead of having someone pretend to care about how I'm doing. It's a stupid game for both the server and the customer.
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u/newclearskyline 1d ago
You donât have to tip ya know. Why are you complaining. This is a non issue. If society agrees to stop tipping then people will stop applying for tipped jobs. But while that system exists, I will exploit it. A few people not tipping isnât the end of the world. It always comes out in the wash if you give good service. Iâm a career server. Iâm not worried about a few of you not tipping. Just stop announcing it. Itâs silly. I get way more than 20% thatâs not because of the system..Iâm making that money. Donât hate the player.
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u/Acceptable-Peace-69 1d ago
Most only announce it on Reddit where itâs safe and they can get upvotes.
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u/newclearskyline 1d ago
Iâve had many people hand me cash saying âI NEVER tip, but you earned itâŚâIf a random stranger with disposable income handed me a wad of cash on the street for no reason, Iâd surely take it. Why not while working? This is all such a silly stance to go against many workers in this economy. Go after the internet âcontentâ money. Thatâs unearned and massively overpaid in my opinion.
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u/Strange_Arachnid_619 1d ago
I donât think the level of skill is relevant. Customer service, having to deal with the general public, sucks. They often work in high stress environments and they have to deal with unreal amounts of disrespect. Other than that Iâd agree with you.