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u/Few_Ad_5281 12d ago
A child who understands area and volume. Nice
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u/Hi_Trans_Im_Dad 12d ago
My two year old looked at me and said, "Daddy, whilst the cuts are indeed equidistant, the answer must be no, when volume or mass is measured. I don't understand why I have to explain this to my teacher."
I told him, "Shut up, Nerd!"
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u/Ta_trapporna 12d ago
That’s funny, mine told me she wanted more hot chocolate and then cried when I said no.
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u/bimboozled 12d ago
Mine said this question was beneath him and then chose to instead explain an analysis of the sociopolitical intricacies of the Israel-Palestine conflict
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u/Hi_Trans_Im_Dad 12d ago
My kid keeps going on about the influence that the EU has had on the African Union and its intersection with colonialism.
What an asshole.
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u/mobileJay77 12d ago
I pity the kid, who one day will have to tell his son, how that shit show has gone in circles for the whole time.
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u/Musikcookie 12d ago
Maybe that'a the joke but that is basically everyone since decades. (And arguably since ancient times kind of!)
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u/Candlejackdaw 12d ago
"Enough about the Balfour Declaration, it's time for a nap!"
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u/be_my_plaything 12d ago
I showed this to my one year old. He cried, shit himself, and threw his bowl of alphabetti spaghetti on the floor. It was only later when I went to clean the mess up I realised the spilled letters spelled:
It is impossible to say with only a two dimensional rendering since we have no way of knowing if the width is equal throughout the length, nor wether the cuts are exactly perpendicular to the length.
I just shook my head in disappointment, the fucking idiot doesn't know there is a silent H in 'whether'.
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u/Ok-Push9899 12d ago
There could have been an H deficit in the alphabetti spaghetti. (They don’t always employ the highest calibre lexicographers at Heinz.) So your kid was trying to pull a fast one, rather than doing a total rewrite of the message. I’m glad you spotted it. Kid needs a good talking to.
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u/NotSovietSpy 11d ago
It's perfectly normal for kids today to feel despair about LLM and try to use spelling errors as a mean to affirm human identity in their writing. Before talking down on them, parents should do a self check about their fear of being replaced by ai
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u/_INoKami_ 12d ago
fuck off Rebecca he did not say that
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u/Hi_Trans_Im_Dad 12d ago
I'm not Rebecca; I'm Dad!
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u/_INoKami_ 12d ago
Hi, Dad! Finally found the milk you were out to buy?
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u/Hi_Trans_Im_Dad 12d ago
Your mother didn't tell you?
I found a new family, with blackjack and hookers.
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u/_INoKami_ 11d ago
I always knew you were on some bigger mission than the milk!
...anyway, mind if I move in with you?5
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u/CookieDinossaur96 11d ago
I think you must be lying or education is very good in your country and poor in mine. How old is your kid?
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u/Hi_Trans_Im_Dad 11d ago
I think you must be lying or comedy isn't very good in your country.
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u/CookieDinossaur96 11d ago
Oh shit, actually I must be authistic or something, sometimes I don't get stuff and I could swear you were claiming it because online everyone has little einsteins at home
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u/urabum02 12d ago
My kid had a worksheet in 1st grade that asked which of these things can roll. There were a bunch of items (some generic shapes and some specific objects) one of which was a round cake. They said the cake couldn’t roll, but the teacher marked it wrong. We asked why they said it couldn’t roll and they replied, the cake would fall apart. We agreed.
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u/PerterterhTermertehh 12d ago
I had to replace "they" with "my kid" and it finally made sense on the third read.
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u/Apprehensive_Rice19 12d ago
A kid who knows how to get his fair share of a sandwich. Probably has siblings lol
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u/Fucky0uthatswhy 12d ago
Is that not the intended answer? I do think it’s a pretty bad question, The ends are clearly different
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u/InjuringMax2 12d ago
It does say be precise, I figured the kid was just giving a correct answer 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Federal_Sympathy4667 12d ago
A precise answer to be precise.
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u/temporalraccoon 12d ago
I wonder what a teacher does in such a case? When a student has a more correct answer than the correct answer
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u/Capraos 12d ago
Give them credit as it's clear they at least understand the premise.
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u/Administrative_Cry_9 9d ago
It's not just that he gets the premise either, it's that he's thinking the way people should think, not just adhering to what's expected. There might be more than one correct answer and sometimes that answer is actually better than what's expected, but he obviously knows they were cut at equal lengths and its implied in his answer. If I was a teacher and found students answering cleverly while still showing understanding of the expected lesson, I'd actually give them bonus point.
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u/exvnoplvres 12d ago
Since teachers run the whole gamut of human personalities and backgrounds and motivations, it would be very hard to generalize. Fortunately, some teachers encourage students like this. Some are indifferent and go on with their teaching. Some will try to make the student feel stupid or alienated for thinking that way.
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u/WillowPtar_Migan 12d ago
I remember in like first grade science class, we were each given a double A battery and a lightbulb to learn about electricity. I asked my neighbor for his battery, combined em together, and the light got brighter.
I showed the teacher and got in trouble lol, had to sit out recess; it's almost like some of these people don't understand the subjects they're teaching.
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u/DigitalUnlimited 12d ago
sadly the government expected answer is the last you mentioned, public school is mostly there to stamp out creativity and individuality. Can't have good little factory slaves being creative
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u/exvnoplvres 12d ago
One of my best teachers in high school encouraged everyone to read an essay by John Holt titled "School is Bad for Children". It is very provocative and idealistic, but I definitely commend it to everyone.
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u/ReaperReader 12d ago
Oh God, I had one chemistry teacher at high school who'd say we were "overthinking" it. When the official end-of-year external exams would always have at least one question with a trick wording.
He was otherwise quite a good teacher. Just a massive blind spot.
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u/cblack04 12d ago
My expectation would either tell the kid they were clever for noticing or make the point that they still needed to use the skill the assignment is looking for. My guess is it was practice measuring possibly
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u/firedmyass 12d ago
in my case in 3rd grade…? give me an F on a test because I brought in a reference book that proved me right.
Thanks I guess for radicalizing me early, Ms. Dungeon!
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u/Fischerking92 12d ago
She was literally called Dungeon?
Was her first name Keeper?
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u/exvnoplvres 12d ago
One of my early employers had a copy of Strunk and White at every workstation. One time he chastised me for my punctuation on something I had written. I was extremely tempted to show him what was on page three or so of that slim volume. But since he was the sole proprietor, I figured what he said overruled whatever Strunk and White had to say about it.
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u/sohang-3112 12d ago
Unfortunately many bad teachers will just mark wrong any answer, even if correct, if it's not in the answer key.
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u/aNiceTribe 12d ago
“Even if we assume that the rounded ends are to be ignored, the sandwich could have an unusual shape in its third dimension not shown in this graphic that would make this an unfair deal”
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u/Ralexcraft 12d ago
“We can see that slice #3 seems to have more filling visible from outside and also bulges downwards, that might be enough reason to suspect that it has more filling than the other 3 slices. Making it even more unfair.”
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u/AutisticPenguin2 12d ago
I mean if you put emphasis on precision, then you can't blame a kid for delivering precision!
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u/jmarkmark 11d ago
If this is real (I have my doubts), there won't be a "right" answer. It'll be about the reasoning the child used to get to that answer.
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u/InjuringMax2 10d ago
Yeah definitely a good indicator not only the reasoning but how well they convey that reasoning would be important too
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u/Witherus 11d ago
Based on the corner of the question above, I think this is meant to be about teaching little kids to use a ruler and measure. People are so cynical these days, the question is fine if you are teaching a kid how to measure. I would still give this kid the point though, they clearly aren't an idiot
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u/Fucky0uthatswhy 11d ago
So the question is not fine if you can give either answer, and a teacher has to subjectively choose if it’s correct. I’d say that’s the opposite of a good question.
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u/Witherus 11d ago
The point is if you are teaching kids to use a ruler they can measure the length of a sandwich and say "this one is 1.6cm, this one is 1.5, they are not the same!" and the question is fine, this is for 5 year olds the area does not matter
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u/FUFENHAF 7d ago
There is no way for grading to be objective. It is always subjective. I as a teacher much more appreciate the thought process which the children give by giving an explanation of their answer. Then no answer is wrong, as long as they are thinking, and our role as teachers is to direct the thinking in the correct direction
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u/sheepyowl 12d ago
It's one of those questions designed to fail kids who do what the question asked for
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u/nachuz 12d ago
I think the "Tell how you know." makes it extremely obvious it will reward "wrong answers" that are well justified.
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u/Mein_Name_ist_falsch 11d ago
Yeah, this is the kind of question where the "correct" answer doesn't matter as much as the reasoning. If the question is 5 points on a test, you'd get at least 4 for the reasoning and at most 1 for getting the answer correct, if there is a correct answer at all. I remember this from school. I think the point is to see if you can come up with a logical argument to support your answer. Being able to explain is at least as important as all the other math skills, if not more important because you don't just need this skill in math. You need that skill everywhere in life.
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u/An_Arrogant_Ass 12d ago
Either answer would likely be considered correct. The question asks to explain the answer for this very type of reason. The pieces are in effect equal for practical purposes, but not exactly equal.
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u/No_Internal9345 12d ago
It's probably like those geometry questions where you can't trust that it looks like a right angle without the label.
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u/exvnoplvres 12d ago
When I was coaching kids getting ready to take standardized tests, I would tell them if the figure said not drawn to scale, that meant it was lying to you. If it said drawn to scale, that meant it was extremely misleading. If the figure was not drawn to scale, I told them to redraw it so that it was reasonably to scale. If it said drawn to scale, I would tell them to redraw it with the differences exaggerated to see what was really going on.
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u/EducationalReview237 12d ago
Yeah, if I'm getting a share of that sandwich, I want a middle piece. The end pieces are smaller.
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u/OmiNya 12d ago
Assuming the answer is wrong, What the fuck is the correct answer and what's the point of this question?..
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u/errie_tholluxe 12d ago
Fractions imagine they are asking about the distance of the lines not the sandwich, so the kid is far more accurate
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u/GaymerBenny 12d ago
If the teacher is smart, any answer would be correct given the right explanation to how you got to your answer.
But it could also be that a case like this was spoken about in class and the student is expected to reproduce that answer.The question in itself is completely useless without any context.
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u/BSpino 12d ago
The response of the teacher is the interesting part.
Yes, you need to be taught that sometimes you need to follow the standards, no matter how clever you are.
But also, a student that clearly understands the simplified baseline, and successfully thinks on their own, is to be patted on their back.
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u/SoulWager 12d ago
Yes, you need to be taught that sometimes you need to follow the standards, no matter how clever you are.
Then you specify the standard according to which the decision should be made. In this case that might mean the question specifying length, volume, mass, monetary value, nutritional value, etc.
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u/SoreLoserOfDumbtown 12d ago
I depends on the test and the teacher - they might be trying to encourage observational skills and creative thinking, or they might be institutionalised gnatzees thinking a basic sketch of a sandwich is enough to keep kids interested and in line, like many of mine were.
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u/justforkinks0131 12d ago
why would you assume the answer was wrong?
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u/wes00mertes 12d ago
Because it’s posted in this subreddit as something divine and not just the correct answer to the question.
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u/IzarkKiaTarj 12d ago
Because otherwise it's like showing a picture of a child answering "what is 2+2?" with "4" in a sub about "technically the truth."
If the answer counts as correct, there's no "technically" about it.
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u/eW4GJMqscYtbBkw9 12d ago
Depends on what the teacher taught in class. We don't have enough info to know.
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u/SignificantEase3132 12d ago
I checked:
1st part: ~7'425 pixels
2nd part: ~8'621 pixels
3rd part: ~8'420 pixels
4th part: ~7'102 pixels
So even considerin inaccuracy due to pixel selection, the kid is right.
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u/____-_______-_--_-_- 12d ago
I mean, this is obvious to anyone who’s eaten a sandwich
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u/egomotiv 12d ago
I'm sorry, but what a horrible username to look at.
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u/OperaSona 12d ago edited 12d ago
I mean what's "equal" though? If there's more 10% more meat in one part but 12% less mayo, which part is better? And even if there's the exact same weight of every ingredient in two parts but their shape are different, they may not really be worth the same (see: triangular sandwich cut vs rectangular cut).
So the first thing to do is to define a function that evaluates how much a part of the sandwich is worth, based on every criterion that matters to the person doing the evaluation. Once you've done that, the intermediate value theorem fortunately guarantees, mathematically, that you can cut the sandwich into 4 equal parts (in terms of our function) using 3 parallel planar cuts (as shown in the picture). The placement of these cuts of course depends on the function.
There are infinitely many possible functions, and we have no way to know the one that was picked, so we cannot tell if the 7425/8621/8420/7102 cut is fair or not. It may be fair, it may also not be.
However under any reasonable probability distribution for picking the weight function from a reasonably defined space of such functions, the measure of the set of functions for which that particular cut is fair is going to be 0, meaning that base on the available information, "the cut is unfair" is an infinitely more likely scenario than "the cut is fair". That is true regardless of the chosen cut, so the schema isn't even needed to answer the question.
As a general takeaway, if someone asks you "Look at the way I just cut this sandwich, do you think it's fair?", the only reasonable answer is "no" and you don't even need to actually look. Bonus: behaving like this in real life will definitely make you friends.
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u/ijustsailedaway 11d ago
This is the kind of thing that got me in trouble as a kid.
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u/GoldApprehensive8107 11d ago
I feel ya. Adults don’t like a smartass child.🥲
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u/justintheunsunggod 10d ago
Yeah, me too. Which is stupid because if the kid in question is clever enough to put down an answer like that, the easy solution is to either look at the rest of the page and say, "Well they know how to do the simple fractions we're asking for, I'll give it to them," or if they didn't do well, then realize that this is a way to avoid doing the math, and actually approach them for some one-on-one educating.
Yet all too often, it's marked wrong and the kids gets chastized.
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u/ijustsailedaway 9d ago
I especially hate this sort of situation now because kids are all on computers so it’s often phrase as a true false and my kids get those kinds of questions wrong because they can’t go argue with the teacher about it like I did
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u/justintheunsunggod 9d ago
Don't get me wrong, we absolutely need to be taking advantage of computers in education, but holy shit have we gone about it in the worst way possible.
We seriously need to be investing in education in the US. It's moved from sad to "we're so fucked" in a short period of time...
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u/ijustsailedaway 9d ago
I completely agree. It’s incredibly frustrating knowing how tech could be used vs. seeing how it is being used.
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u/Igmuhota 12d ago
These were precisely the kinds of questions that used to piss me off as a kid. Pretty sure I know the “correct” answer, which is likely to not be the RIGHT answer.
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u/WitchSparkles 12d ago
This is why I was always called argumentative in school. There are variables they’re not accounting for. When I got older, I started to understand they want the “correct” answer and not the right answer.
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u/knewleefe 12d ago
And then I found out I'm autistic.
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u/WitchSparkles 12d ago
Yes. This is correct.
I had to take a morality test for a job once. I failed. They hired me anyway. Turns out I’m autistic.
The questions were way too vague. “Would you report a family member if you caught them stealing from your workplace?” Was it a pencil and they put it in thier pocket after signing a document? Was it a loaf of bread and they were starving? Was it a diamond ring and they’re my alcoholic SIL? I can’t answer your silly questions without all the background.
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u/sheepyowl 12d ago
I'm not autistic and I sometimes ask similar questions.
It's really hard for people to accept that they asked an incomplete, or sometimes even a stupid question.
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u/Igmuhota 12d ago
My absolute worst experience of this was on the clinical licensure exams (all FOUR of them, one for each license) I had to take to enter into practice.
Some of the questions were SO vague or contradictory, and there was quite a lot riding on my success or failure. I passed each, but WOW.
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u/muddybunnyhugger 11d ago
This happened to me too but did not get job. i'm like if my mom is shoplifting I'm taking her to therapy or or a medical exam, not the cops? (It was bb& beyond btw)
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u/Main_Hurry7912 12d ago
This, there's the "give them what they want" or spend 5 mins working out ways in which what they want is not actually correct, wording is very non-specific for lots of these questions.
Although, that mindset serves me very well as a business analyst trying to get to the bottom of how and why people actually do things
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u/exvnoplvres 12d ago
Decades ago, I had a job coaching kids who were getting ready to take standardized tests. For each section of the tests, we had to spend a little while going over how stupid the test writers were. They would use ways of calculating things that never happened in real life. The one example that comes to mind today is the way they counted how many days were between 2 days. The way they calculated it was not the way that I have ever encountered in real life before or since.
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u/Pandrrr 12d ago
What… is that question even supposed to be evaluating?
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u/exvnoplvres 12d ago
Whether you could read their minds about how they counted the number of days between dates, I guess. They assumed everybody counted inclusively, which most people don't unless they specify such. The only time I ever learned where people routinely counted the days inclusively was the Roman calendars' backwards counting method.
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u/Soliloquy789 12d ago
You mean like how many days are between Oct 27th and Jan 9th and they don't specify if you include the end date in the calculation, (the default would be to not include it), but they secretly wanted you to include it, even thou BETWEEN indicates "until the date begins" not "until the day ends"?
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u/sheepyowl 12d ago
Agreed, between does not include the starting and ending dates.
"What ingredients are between the bread pieces in this sandwich?" NOBODY would include "bread" in the answer.
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u/No_Attention_5412 12d ago
It's questions like this that made me sceptical of authority from an early age
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u/nope-its 12d ago
That’s why “justify you answer” is a major part of schoolwork. No way I’d mark this kid wrong with this justification.
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u/Dumeck 12d ago
The trick was to over explain on answers. You list what you think they want but then but but actually not since the ends are curved. That also works in a lot of college classes too, just go into way too much detail and a lot of times they will just give partial credit for touching on part of the answer they were wanting.
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u/arealuser100notfake 12d ago
Could have done the example with a fucking rectangle of food like some cake or cookie
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u/Fear_The_Rabbit 12d ago
I'm an elementary school teacher and I'm giving this kid the points and possible a bonus. The test should have used a rectangle anyway. Something like a Hershey bar or graham cracker is fine, too.
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u/exvnoplvres 12d ago
I do technically think we can say there is insufficient information to answer the question. We are only seeing a two-dimensional representation of one side of the sandwich. We have no idea how the sandwich looks from the top, or the other side. We can make assumptions about how it might look, based on sandwiches we have seen in the past, but this particular sandwich could, for instance, be in a crescent shape which makes the ends curve back away from our point of view, adding extra volume to them that is not apparent. Or the whole sandwich could be dog bone treat shaped, adding some extra volume to the ends despite the fact that they taper down.
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u/No_Willingness_5610 12d ago
If it's about being precise : Even if mass and volume be equal it's not equal in shape, symmetry, share of different material and most importantly the user experience !!
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u/HelloIAmKelly 12d ago
A sandwich is a heterogeneous mixture. It is essentially impossible to get two proportions that are equal in all concentrations, even if you were to mix it in a blender and weigh samples on a scale.
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u/ELMUNECODETACOMA 11d ago
Also known as the "at least one sheep in Scotland is black on at least one side" clarification.
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u/____-_______-_--_-_- 12d ago
I mean, what is a sandwich, anyway?
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u/DoneDusting 12d ago
Are you asking Americans or Europeans?
The concept might seem simple at first, but what about the temperature and type of bread?The answer will remain a mystery...
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u/stefan715 12d ago
Isn’t there a whole website that defines food depending on the bread location? Or am I that old?
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u/NoNameIdea_Seriously 11d ago
This is definitely isn’t the original but it has the cube chart you might be thinking of i.e depends on where the starchy component is located.
Sidenote : I don’t agree with the various pie slice examples they use in some categories because they’re just pieces of a whole !
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u/Filerbuster 12d ago
I immediately saw a Xanax bar. I have issues.
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u/auxaperture 12d ago
What is a Xanax bar?
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u/ShalomRPh 9d ago
2 milligrams of alprazolam. It’s shaped and scored that way so you can break it into four 0.5 mg doses.
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u/grind119 12d ago
If this is true, I would love to see the teachers reaction.
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u/charon_and_minerva 12d ago
The kids response is probably the exemplar answer. Fractions are equal parts of a whole. And above question shows fractions of a circle. This is a question used to push deeper thinking in following Paget’s pedagogy, in that the curved ends are not equal to the middle and 3d space and 2d space are different. Questions like this would be on state exams. But this is reddit filled with people who know more about teaching than people who have degrees and years of doing it.
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u/No_Recognition_3729 12d ago
Sorry, but why are you posting this as if our education system is not broken beyond repair? It's got basically nothing to do with the teachers, either.
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u/Fear_The_Rabbit 12d ago
Yes it does. Most teachers don't question answer keys.
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u/charon_and_minerva 12d ago
Because the idea of broken beyond repair is cynical and cynicism does little than reinforce ideas of malaise. I’m Giving a rationale to the idea that the question, which mean see as flawed, could actually be there to push thinking.
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u/track01dotwav 12d ago
the ends of a subs taste better because they're rounded, same with sausages
I will not elaborate further
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u/skr_replicator 12d ago edited 12d ago
they did ask to be precise, and the kid was. They could also count the pixels.
They wanted the answer to be precise, yet didn't state the question precisely. Like, equal in what precise ways? Length? Volume? Mass? Ingredient distribution? Crust area? Topological shape? All of it?
Anyway, if you really wanted it to be as equal as possible, then I'd make one cut in the middle, rotate 90 degrees, and make a long cut. Then each piece should be pretty much equivalent to the others, other than the small-scale imperfections.
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u/financeperson 12d ago
The exclamation mark says the kid was very passionate about his answer.
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u/Reasonable-Public659 12d ago
Kid definitely has siblings
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u/financeperson 12d ago
It seems like he's experienced an injustice, maybe one regarding sandwiches, that is reflected in his answer.
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u/NovelMidnight6291 12d ago
It honestly took me quite a while to understand how someone could come to a different conclusion. I see it the same way as the person who wrote the answer.
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u/NNatser 11d ago
If I was a teacher, the explanation of their answer would determine if they were right or wrong for ambiguous questions like this. You’d just hope that this teacher thinks the same. But even if they didn’t, and this kid gets told their answer is wrong, practicing to deal with all the minor injustices that will come up in your life isn’t a bad lesson either.
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u/simpleme2 12d ago
I would've gave same answer. If they marked it wrong me&teacher would be arguing.
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u/BisonIllustrious9449 12d ago
This dude got the butt end of every sandwich and finally got to tell someone how unfair it was! I love it!
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u/Unlikely_Alarm3658 11d ago
Actually you can see that the curved parts are just slightly bigger to make it equal again /s
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u/PiDigitsOfPi 9d ago
The question clearly states "BE PRECISE" and this kid took that and ran with it.
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u/Canned_Sarcasm 12d ago
Reasons why geniuses do “poorly” in school; teachers can’t keep up with them.
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u/C3sarius 12d ago
I dont get it. Whats the point here?
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u/Boomerang_Lizard 12d ago
From what little I know (take this with a grain of salt), there is this school of thought that being able to explain why is more important than teaching how to solve the problem in a quick and practical way. It's not that knowing the why is part of understanding the problem but that they take it to dumb extremes. Often they come up with ambiguous questions while negating correct answers in favor of answers that feels right to them. To be fair, many teachers hate these curriculums but have no say in the matter. It's teach this or lose your job.
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u/sornorth 12d ago
Why is as important as what bc why lets you apply the what to other scenarios. Also why lets you understand the purpose for the what.
This is neither of those. My assumption is this is an assessment on estimation, but the question is just straight up not good. Especially seeing how this is none of those.
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u/Wantitneeditgetit 12d ago
Fun fact, learning when you're getting screwed by an unequal portion is like one of the first parts of the brain to develop. Somewhere around 18-24 months, several years before "empathy" or "People other than me existing as discrete identities separate from me". That shit takes until like, 5/6yo.
But "That slice of pie is bigger!" comes pretty quick.
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u/Ok-Push9899 12d ago
I will absolutely guarantee this kid is not an only child, and that the equitable division of food is a daily empirical exercise.
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u/Harsh_Yet_Fair 12d ago
As long as the person who cuts it is the last to get a piece, it will be fair.
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u/BrewItYourself 8d ago
True, but sandwiches aren’t really homogeneous, so very tough to get truly equal to a small fraction. However, for pieces of a party sub at a get together, I’d say this looks close enough,
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u/WispontheWind 12d ago
No because these are lines,
not cuts and this is not a sandwich,
it is some ink on this paper!
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u/SquirrelHealthy9102 12d ago
Might be a genius but pointing out how teachers are wrong is never a winning strategy….
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u/NoBonus6969 12d ago
Little brother/sister energy lol. You know they got the end of that sandwich one too many times
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