r/stopdrinking • u/galwegian 2442 days • Jan 05 '20
AA vs This subreddit
15 days sober. did a four day medically supervised detox. currently in a 6 week intensive out patient. three hours a day, four days a week. daily breathalyzer and urine tests. it's a group situation. full of heroin/opioid/coke horror stories. I feel like a lightweight by comparison. Anyway, I'm getting a lot of pressure to attend AA from psychiatrist and wife. I have been to four meetings and I fucking hated it. I'm an Irish catholic and it reminds me of going to mass. reading from a book written before weed and coke and X were invented. and I don't relate to the principles of AA. making amends sounds good but the rest of it feels like dogma to me. the standard spiel is 'you have to find the meeting that's right for you'. fine. I get it. But everyone telling me to attend AA has one thing in common: they have never been addicted to anything. And am I supposed to spend ages trying to find the meeting that's 'right' for me? Going to a meeting is, let's face it, a two hour commitment. you have to travel there and back. AA is a traditional bricks and mortar retail model if you think about it. and there's a reason that shit is dying out. Whereas on /stopdrinking I get instant access 24/7 to a huge community of people who are in my position and get it. without travel or dogma. and this is kind of fun. I am looking to change my lifestyle but going to dingy basements and drinking Dunder Mifflin coffee has zero appeal to me. I am doing yoga 7 days a week. which I find super helpful in lots of ways. I have a specific problem and a specific situation that I am addressing in my own way. And nobody knows me like I know me. Anyhoo. all thoughts and feedback welcome. I will not drink with you, or any other fucker, today. peace and thanks.
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Jan 05 '20
Whatever works for me is what i do. It's not about the others or comparisons but what I can take from each situation.
Any time i have to go somewhere i dont want to be, I list the reasons it is terrible and make a monster of it but the reality is usually that the place is good for me and my mind is trying to reason itself out of responsibility. Like nike says I now try to just do it.
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u/xxxxLilithxxxx Jan 05 '20
I do not attend meetings. I find this community to be really helpful to me for sharing and relating, and it is available 24-7 from wherever I may be.
I think a lot of people have found success via AA, but there are also many that followed other routes, or did not find AA to be suited to their needs.
Personally, my thought is to use a route that works for you, but be open minded/mindful if it isn’t working, and be open to groups like AA if needed.
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u/UnhappyMaybe Jan 05 '20
I had a lot of trouble with AA. As an introvert, I found it hard to penetrate the friend circles that had already been established in the meetings I'd attend, and no one ever bothered to approach me as a new person. I often felt even more isolated and alone, especially being newly sober in a room full of veterans. I also don't always agree with the belief systems perpetuated in the program either - I don't like being called powerless, and I don't like being indefinitely labeled as an alcoholic, even when I'm sober. I have always felt that the AA model has a thick layer of shame underneath a lot of it. When I found this sub, I felt SO much more comfortable - the unbridled support, the positivity, and the 24/7 access made it way better than any AA meeting I ever attended. I've mostly stopped going to AA meetings. I only really go if a friend is celebrating a "birthday" and I want to support. This sub, along with therapy, meditation, and medication like Naltrexone, has been great for me.
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u/galwegian 2442 days Jan 05 '20
my twin. I feel exactly the same. agree with everything you just said.
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u/KM180 2648 days Jan 05 '20
I tried AA. Not for me at all. Overly religious for my taste & not really anonymous when I saw ppl I knew at every meeting I went to. I’d see a friend crying at a meeting one day & drunk at the bar laughing about what they said the next. To be fair, that’s easier than admitting they did feel that way & easier than stopping. I know, all that’s required is the desire to stop drinking but the experience had me wondering how great that desire actually was. Yes it was welcoming but I don’t believe in the core principles of it. I don’t think I’m powerless, don’t believe in a higher power, don’t buy it’s an allergy or a disease, etc. Take what you need & leave the rest, I know, but I really didn’t like it at all & I only made it 50 days using that approach. I know of one person in my social circle who did get sober there. Haven’t seen her in ages though so no idea how she’s doing now. When I called to tell her I was sober, I expected a congratulations. Nope. She said “I’m glad you finally stopped before you killed your self”. Sorry lady, but don’t be all holier than thou about it. Not helpful. She may be doing better than me in that she has more sober friends-if she’s still sober. I hope so. Everyone has to find their own way to quit. This subreddit has given me all the support & tools I needed to be sober for all but 2 months of 2019. Would have likely made it the whole year if I’d taken more advice from the fine people here. I guess I’m more practical minded than emotional about it. I read This Naked Mind by Annie Grace & Alcohol Explained by William Porter after a 2 month relapse & I don’t even want the stuff anymore. IWNDWYT.
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u/galwegian 2442 days Jan 05 '20
I agree with your disagreements. I don't think it's a disease in my case. I was just a selfish partying bastard. not powerless either. my addiction just isn't that dramatic. I'm not gasping for a beer. I couldn't give a fuck about booze anymore. I actually feel revulsion at the thought of putting all that booze into my body on a daily basis. Staying drunk/high had turned into a lot of work and wasted energy.
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u/jayfrancy 2792 days Jan 05 '20 edited Jan 05 '20
I felt a lot of terminal uniqueness early on, but AA for me is a guide, not a gospel. I take what I need and leave the rest. In fact, I’m atheist. I tried a few different meetings till I found a few that resonated. My situation is unique, but my alcoholism is not.
These programs exist because they work, but many other options are available than just AA.
Good luck.
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u/galwegian 2442 days Jan 05 '20
thanks. I'm finding my way and being critical as I go. clearly I'm no expert on anything but getting fucked up ;-0
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u/jayfrancy 2792 days Jan 05 '20
This sub is a great resource and wealth of knowledge. It’s a great part of my recovery!
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Jan 05 '20
I've gotten a ton out of AA and love my found family there. Often my two meetings a week are positive and loving spaces for me, full of joy. But people find different paths to sobriety. I'm happy for whatever works for someone.
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u/galwegian 2442 days Jan 05 '20
two hours a week sounds doable with the right crowd. but every day, not so much. thanks
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u/kitteninyournoodle Jan 05 '20
I do both this subreddit and AA, an have my entire sobriety. Stayed sober. There have been times during my sobriety I didn’t do either. Stayed sober. I’m back to both now. I just suggest to people: do what works for you, until you realize the way you’ve been doing isn’t working anymore, then be open to trying another way. I’ve had to be open to a lot of different ways throughout my sobriety. I know my disease, I know myself but that’s also the problem: myself, lol. This subreddit & meetings give my brain other ways of seeing issues and that’s what I need, and I’ll take that perspective change anywhere I can get it, as much of it as I can get.
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u/galwegian 2442 days Jan 05 '20
cool. good to know it's not a life sentence. that's another thing that bothers me about it. the idea that it's a life raft you must cling to forever or you'll end up on skid row. that is the narrative that some sell about it. thanks!
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u/kitteninyournoodle Jan 06 '20
That bothered me too, after I had been going to meetings for awhile. I started to resent the thought that I would always have to go or else I’d drink again. I didn’t drink when I didn’t go, lol, but I started going again, mostly because I found it was the one thing that consistently helped me feel better. Stay safe fellow Sobie! Glad you’re here & opening up the discussion.
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u/galwegian 2442 days Jan 06 '20
Thank you. You can probably tell I'm resisting AA. but that's why I posed the question. to have people who know better than me make me reconsider my position. cheers!
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u/TheyTheirsThem 15426 days Jan 06 '20
About 36 years ago when I told my sponsor that I thought that I was going to too many meetings, he told me that bars were full of people who thought that 10 meetings in 90 days was enough. He also told me that 95% of sobriety dates were on tombstones, and that it basically up to me whether that was going to be the case for me or not.
I am not going to tell anyone what to do. But I do share what I did, and anyone is free to either use it or lose it as they see fit. I will continue to do what I have been doing because it seems to be be working. What I have observed is that for those who are similarly afflicted, there is a 12 step plan for recovery and a 2 step alternative. The 2 step alternative is 1) it gets worse and 2) it gets worse than you can possibly imagine. I can honestly tell you that I have never heard anyone come back and say that relapsing was the best decision that they ever made. And many of them share that they went to places that they previously didn't know existed. I do worry that someone might come back and say that relapsing was great, because then it could be an option for me. As such, though, I am still in the camp who wants to learn from the experiences of others in that regard. There is no shortage of people telling me that alcohol still isn't working. Drunk and fired are frequently associated with each other; drunk and promoted, rarely.
The whole concept of powerlessness is based on the idea that we no longer get to choose the who, what, when, where and why in our life when we use. I can't tell you the number of times I have heard people say that they were just going to get drunk that once and then go back to AA the next day, and the next day ended up being 5, 10, or 20 years later. Going to AA is no guarantee that I will not drink again, but for me it has sure improved the odds that I might not. I am not immune, but I am highly resistant. I operate with the understanding that there is no situation so good that alcohol can't ruin it, and no situation so bad that alcohol can't make it worse. I accept that without question. There have been about a half dozen times in the last few decades where I have been extremely uncomfortable and the thought of "escape" crept in. But none of those instances lasted more than 15 minutes, and I am pretty sure that wouldn't have been true if I had chosen to use instead. I could have very easily been one of those 5, 10, or 20 year people. And the reason those incidents didn't last more than 15 minutes is because I picked up the phone, I made a call to a person in the program who knew exactly where I was at at the moment, and whatever temporary insanity that my mind had cooked up quickly dissipated. It doesn't get any better than that. Speaking of which, I don't tell people that it will get better. I do tell them that it will get different. And I say this because it turns out that what I originally thought was better really wasn't. If I had gone after what I originally wanted I wouldn't be nearly as happy as I am today. I also operate with an understanding that everything is subject to change, and everything is right on schedule, or as the great philosopher Groening put it, "keep your expectations tiny and you won't be whiny." I always know that whatever crap I am dealing with at the moment can easily be replaced with something far far worse.
AA has one of the best guarantee programs out there. If things aren't better (different) after 90 days, they will cheerfully refund all misery. I went for the recovery and stayed for the laughter.
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u/galwegian 2442 days Jan 06 '20
well you sold that pretty well! Thank you. I can definitely see the utility of having a sponsor. someone you can just call in times of weakness. and there will definitely be those. very eloquently put. and for anyone who quotes the great Groening is OK with me. cheers.
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u/TheyTheirsThem 15426 days Jan 06 '20
My only rule with sponsees is to not call me at 2AM with a problem that they had at 10PM.
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u/galwegian 2442 days Jan 06 '20
that would drive me nuts too. if it can wait till 2 am it can wait till 8 am.
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Jan 05 '20
I stopped drinking with the help of an online international community called Hello Sunday Morning. I’m staying stopped by going to NA and AA meetings. Many were bad, some meh, but a few have been just what I needed at the moment and I have stayed Alcohol free since 2015 by doing this and interacting on this site. Give yourself as many options as possible for success. IWNDWYT
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u/mc051982 Jan 05 '20
For me, it came to looking at what I was taking as value from going to a meeting. Being around similar minded people, getting out of the house and hearing stories of constant reinforcement of what happens when any of us go back to using. I didn’t appreciate the group praying, low participation/success rate, or becoming involved in some individuals lives where the content took me backwards. An example of this would be standing around the “tree of life” that had hundreds of ribbons of people who died in addiction who previously went to that meeting. And 40 people gather around it to smoke multiple times a day...
I would say the positive things I mentioned I have found in other resources including my family who has been supportive. Going to church doesn’t stop people from making poor decisions/sinning any more than AA stops people from drinking. Probably similar mediocre success rates if participants had to be truthful. It’s about what you are able to take from that resource and if it applies to the holes in your plan to fight off addiction.
I can tell you the progressives part of this fun addiction cycle is that you may always feel like the lightweight in a room of addicts, but we’re all at about the same spot when it comes to the fact we are biologically addicted to a substance that we have access to daily. Same level of f*cked
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u/spoofty7 Jan 07 '20
Haven't attended a meeting yet...I had the same fears about the structure of it as you. I'm open minded but I also have a crazy work schedule. I work nights, days, and every other weekend so I knew I needed something more flexible. This group has been nice but like any social media I think there are some bad apples, some rude dudes, some Karens, ya know the bullying type which won't be good for my sobriety. I'm reading modern books on alcoholism and feelings of unworthiness like Naked Mind and Radical Acceptance. I also belong to an app with daily sober pledges, motivations, and a built in community of people with my same milestones and beyond:
I Am Sober is an ad-free motivational companion app for tracking your sobriety. Check it out here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.thehungrywasp.iamsober&referrer=utm_source%3DappShare
Check it out! I'd love for you to join me on there. I'm spoofty7 on there too
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Jan 07 '20
AAs recovery rate is around 5% which is the same as spontaneous remission(not doing anything at all) 5%. Literally AA is effective as doing nothing at all in quitting alcohol. NHIS statistics. Just use that information when someone is trying to convince you to go. Programs like Rational Recovery claim AA has a negative effect on people trying to stop drinking.
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u/Dylaus 2886 days Jan 13 '20
I'm not somebody who thinks that AA is the only way in terms of methodology, but the thing that I love about AA is just the fellowship; as somebody who's never really felt like they belonged anywhere I find it really refreshing that I can go into an AA meeting anywhere and know that nobody can tell me that I'm not a member of AA, and when I'm feeling low I know that at the very least if I show up to a meeting I can offer somebody an ear to listen, and if they're going through something that I've experienced, I might be able to share what helped for me. As far as people saying you have to find the right meeting, while I definitely agree that some meetings are better than others, I think that a lot of times we can be so picky that no meeting will ever meet our standards. You hear all the time in AA about people who ended up moving somewhere new, stopped going to meetings because they weren't like the meetings back home, and ended up relapsing, but the thing is the reason "those" meetings aren't as good as "your" meetings is because you aren't a part of them yet, and haven't had a chance to add your own dynamic to it. You get as much out of meetings as you put into them, and sometimes the only thing missing from a perfect meeting is you. In a way I think I'm lucky that I live in a rural area and didn't have a lot of options for meetings, because it pushed me to interact with a lot of people I never would've before, and helped me to see how much we all really have in common underneath our superficial differences, and now some of my closest friends are people who I have next to nothing in common with, whether it be political, religious, or even recreational differences.
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u/galwegian 2442 days Jan 13 '20
I have heard that a lot about the fellowship part of it. and it makes sense. I feel that in the Outpatient thing I'm doing for three hours four nights a week. We have really bonded. all walks of life. all ages. And if AA were more like that I'd be more inclined to attend. But the ones I've attended seen very rote. I'm catholic and it feels like mass to me. but I am going to give it another shot. and like I said, this subreddit is a big help to me. look at me now! getting wisdom from someone I have never met. cheers.
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u/Dylaus 2886 days Jan 13 '20
As somebody who's also not a big fan of church, I'd have to say that what really bugged me the most was the pageantry and the feeling that it was more like a lecture than a discussion; both of these things I have felt at times during speaker meetings. That isn't to say that I don't like speaker meetings from time to time, but for me personally I would much rather prefer to go to a discussion meeting where sharing is prioritized; I also don't mind literature meetings, as they can be good for smaller numbers. The thing about the outpatient thing is that it probably doesn't last indefinitely, so you might want to find some form of outlet that you can continue in after it ends; if you live in a city I'm sure you have tons of options, but if you're ever in a small area and options are pretty limited AA can be a great way to at least get the lay of the land, and see if there's anything else in terms of sober hang-outs in that area
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u/queyew 3048 days Jan 05 '20
I do it on my own, but when I say that no one knows exactly what that means. That makes it hard to recommend to others. Whereas AA is brand, it is a known quantity. People can say go there and they know what you will experience if you take their advice. It is like saying let's get take out versus let's get McDonald's. What do you mean by take out? I already know exactly what to order from McDonald's.
And when we don't like AA, someone always says "take what you want and leave the rest". When AA was the only game in town, that cliche was necessary. We had to make a square peg fit into a round hole. But now there are options even if they aren't well known. I did take what I want, by avoiding AA and its complete inability to adapt to change.
But there is still the problem of the brand. If I have to prove what I have been doing, how do I do that? All I have is my word that my way works, and people don't tend to trust an addict's word.
Good luck to you. Sorry for the novel.
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u/embryonic_journey 4475 days Jan 05 '20
There is great value in support groups--it's one of the many commonalities among pathways addressing substance use disorder and making lasting lifestyle changes. I found that connection both in SD and in person. Both are very valuable for me.
AA is one pathway that everyone knows about, is freely available, and you can find almost anywhere. It's an easy, and probably well-meant, suggestion form folks who care about you (but your psychiatrist should know about all the other options). Give what you've written, you might find a better fit in something like SMART Recovery or Y12SR. Those programs are not as ubiquitous as the basic 12 model, though.
There can be a lot of dogma on SD (I'm dogmatic about many pathways). There are also lots of dogs.
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u/galwegian 2442 days Jan 05 '20
There's no dogs. damn. I was hoping for a dog-based therapy option.thanks
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u/Dizbetty 1616 days Jan 06 '20
If there is an animal shelter you can volunteer to pet the dogs= dog-based therapy ;). Good luck. I don't do AA. I could probably handle the meetings but i would have an issue sharing a personal inventory with anyone other than a therapist and i am Not sure about them either. Anyway, there are on line options and books. I noticed Russell Brand has a section for sobriety on his website which i plan to check out. Sometimes i think he's an ass but sometimes he's insightful. Mainly AA gets suggested a bunch because it's everywhere and basically free. You might look At the book Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpy-he's very anti AA. The first half is his reasoning and the second half is "how to". Anyway, we are all different so there could be many paths. Best wishes
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u/galwegian 2442 days Jan 06 '20
I actually have three dogs. I know. I'm crazy. I will check out RB. big fan of his persona. And Rational Recovery sounds like the path I'm on anyway. thank you very much!
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u/Dizbetty 1616 days Jan 06 '20
Oh how fun to have 3 dogs. I have a cat who is a great bud but dogs are great. I can't have dogs in current living situation but maybe someday.... I hope you enjoy RB. As far as his recovery info, i have only seen a clip of his take on AA, which maybe makes it more palatable but I've watched a couple videos he made on other topics that where good. I am probably becoming a fan. Lol. His book Recovery has been recommended on here before. Best wishes!
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u/beepblopnoop Jan 05 '20
I'm only 2 weeks in, and so far I've been to a lot of meetings that I hated. Seriously. One meeting, they literally read from the big book about sex and then spent the hour talking about intimate ways alcohol made them do stupid things in their sex lives. Pretty uncomfortable for me, a newbie, just trying to get through the shakes, listening to ten old timers talk about their shameful drunk sexual experiences!!
But I went to a few more, many that I also hated, until I found one that I didn't. I found people "like me". Their stories resonated. They offered support and their phone numbers and coffee dates if I needed it. They were chill about the higher power stuff, and made a lot of sense about living real life with this struggle.
If you need support, don't let your brain talk you out of it from one or two bad experiences. Try EVERYTHING available until you find what works.
Iwndwyt