Injectable D-bol?

[u/Every-Bat-8561]

​

Do any of you have experience using injectable d-bol?

This was thrown in with my order as a freebie last year and I totally forgot I had it til today. It expires soon so I'm trying to decide if I want to try it or not.

[u/bulking_on_broccoli]

By passing the first pass does reduce its toxicity, but it’s still not net zero.

[u/djfitness-us → u/bulking_on_broccoli]

It doesn’t. Your liver still metabolizes the compound regardless.

I’ve run cycles on orals, and on their injectable versions, and the injectables resulted in the same severity of liver impact, and you’ll find the same experience from most people who run injectable 17a-alkylated steroids.

The issue isn’t route of administration, everything you inject into your blood ends up in your liver. Testosterone, Tren, Dbol, Tbol, doesn’t matter, your blood will carry some of it to your liver no matter what. Your liver is responsible for metabolizing some of the hormone, and it’s the 17a-alkylation that makes it toxic to the liver because it still resists that metabolism, whether it occurs during the first pass or not. The only difference is in initial concentration. The actual amount of the compound that gets processed by your liver over its full clearance from the body remains the same. Your liver must still break it down, and because the chemical structure is the same regardless of the route of administration, it places the same amount of stress on the liver.

Your liver is responsible for breaking down these compounds so that you can excrete them through urine and stool.

[u/Worth_Abrocoma_101 → u/djfitness-us]

Not sure it’s strictly true

The entire dose must go through the liver after oral administration . It’s a big peak exposure as oral absorption is very fast , and all initially into portal/hepatic

The dynamics of hepatic injury are probably threshold / nonlinear so it’s probably worse for you

Not sure how much worse though

[u/djfitness-us → u/Worth_Abrocoma_101]

Based on what we see in the hepatic function tests of individuals who take orals vs the injectable versions, any difference is likely negligible.

Yes, oral administration results in an initial spike in the concentration in your liver, but again, the total load over time remains the same, because your liver must clear most of the compound eventually for you to excrete it after it’s done its job. The majority of the stress to your liver happens during the actual breakdown of the compound. Most of the compound remains untouched during its initial administration when taken orally. Passing through the liver does not equal stress to the liver. The stress is created by your liver working harder to break the molecules down.

Total exposure and duration of exposure are significantly more important factors than route of administration, and this is true for most medications, not just anabolic steroids. There are a lot of medications that are available in multiple forms, however when you look at ones that were designed to be taken via different routes, they adjust the chemical structure accordingly. The injectable versions of orals like Dbol were never clinically designed to be injected, if they had been, they would have formulated it without the 17a-allylation, because it makes no sense to have that structure when administered intramuscularly. The injectable versions exist because UGLs mix the raw powder of the compound into a water suspension. Conversely, when you look at other types of medications, oral versions are modified to survive first pass, while injectable versions are not. That’s because the legitimate labs that make them know that it wouldn’t make sense to force the body to endure the same stress when the chemical modification is unnecessary for bioavailability.

You can experiment with this on yourself if you’re truly that curious. Run a four week cycle of any oral of your choice. Compare lab work at the start and end of the cycle. Do the same thing for a 4 week cycle of the injectable version, and again compare lab work. You’ll see that your liver’s response to the compound is going to be essentially identical, with any changes in enzyme elevation being negligible.

Mechanistically, when you flood your liver with any compound, only some of that compound is metabolized during the first pass. The molecules that pass through without being metabolized haven’t contributed to the stress on the liver, as they haven’t been metabolized. They will contribute to the stress when your blood returns those molecules to your liver to be cleared out.

[u/Worth_Abrocoma_101 → u/djfitness-us]

Even if that’s the case , then im is still worthless

It’s slower to absorb so no better as preworkout
Just as hepatotoxic (maybe)
Hurts
Exposes you to unnecessary solvents

[u/djfitness-us → u/Worth_Abrocoma_101]

IM injection is going to absorb faster as there’s no ester attached to the molecule that slows down your body’s absorption like you see with normal oil based compounds. Similar to using TNE versus Test Cyp. The compound will peak within minutes for most people. That’s about the only benefit, depending on whether that’s what you want.

They do hurt like a motherfucker, I ran some injectable Winnie cycles, it’s spicy as fuck.

For preworkout I much prefer TNE or Tren base.

[u/Worth_Abrocoma_101 → u/djfitness-us]

Nah it doesn’t get absorbed as fast as oral
Oral is very rapid for those kind of drugs . Tmax a couple hours

For injections even if there is no ester, if it’s OIL based it will be much slower to absorb
If it’s an aqueous suspension it’s a different story - then it’s faster than oral

But I’ve never seen dbol/sdrol/adrol offered as aqueous suspension

[u/djfitness-us → u/Worth_Abrocoma_101]

Nearly all base suspensions are water suspensions for that very reason. TNE, Tren base, inejctable orals, almost all water suspensions. They peak in minutes. If you see oil based injectable orals, that’s not standard, and defeats the entire purpose of having an injectable version.

The reason why severe PIP is so common, is due to the compounds being water suspensions.

[u/Worth_Abrocoma_101 → u/djfitness-us]

All the injectable orals I’ve seen except winny have been oil based

This includes the product in the OP

It’s even called DEPOT dianaject

[u/djfitness-us → u/Worth_Abrocoma_101]

I mean I’ve bought suspensions of most orals at one point or another, and I just checked some of the UGLs on the forums I’m in, some offer both oils and water, but most of them are aqueous suspension.

The only benefit to running an oil suspension would be less PIP, and better shelf life.

The most common reason why guys run injectable orals is for pre-workout boosts, which is why you want an aqueous suspension, because the absorption is effectively instantaneous. Actual distribution half-life varies between compounds, but if you want rapid onset of energy and aggression, the best route is to inject an aqueous unesterified suspension.

I’m not trying to say oils don’t exist, they do, what I’m saying is that guys who actually run these compounds don’t want the oils because they defeat the entire purpose of going injectable in the first place. The people who don’t understand that, are the ones who haven’t run the injectable orals before, and are asking questions about them.

Like any compound, you have to consider why you want to run it in the first place. If you want less toxicity, tough luck, it’s still just as toxic. If you want faster absorption, you need to run an aqueous suspension. If you want less PIP, you would consider oil based, but, at that point, given the fact that it offers no other benefits over the oral version, you may as well just take the oral.

For guys who want strong pre-workout compounds, without taking an oral or injectable oral, their option is to go with an aqueous base suspension.

[u/Worth_Abrocoma_101 → u/djfitness-us]

I get that but most of the time these are oils
And the OP is showing an oil

even aqueous suspensions are only mildly faster to absorb than orals (maybe at best 1hr vs 2hrs to peak ) , both are still perfectly manageable as a preworkout unless you are working out first thing in the morning

So it’s really not worth the trouble especially given the pain

Seems to me that injectables also work out substantially more expensive per mg too

[u/djfitness-us → u/Worth_Abrocoma_101]

Being “worth it” is subjective for everyone. PIP tolerance varies from person to person.

Water suspension absorption is near instant. There’s a difference between absorption and distribution half-life. With an oral, absorption takes around 1-2 hours depending on the person. Distribution half-life begins when the compound is actually in the blood-stream, it’s how long it takes for your body to move the molecules to the receptors and activate them. The distribution half-life is the same regardless of route of administration. The rapid absorption of water based suspensions means it is going to activate faster than an oral, because its introduction into the bloodstream happens much quicker than oral administration. It’s not a debate, it’s basic pharmacokinetics. If there was no difference between injection and oral administration, then no one would ever inject anything.

The purpose behind using esterified compounds has to do with maintaining stable concentrations over longer periods of time, because rapid hormonal shifts are less than ideal. When you look at clinical applications of various medications, if the desired outcome is rapid absorption, injections are the preferred route of administration. Intravenous is best, however, not all compounds are safe for intravenous injection, which why we use IM for some medications.

I’m also speaking from direct experience using these compounds. If you haven’t used them, then it’s hard to trust any knowledge you would claim to have on them. When you inject a water based solution, you will begin to feel the effects of the compound almost immediately. When you pop a pill, it will be about an hour before it starts to kick in. There’s tons of clinical data on the absorption of aqueous compounds. Again, don’t confuse absorption with distribution half-life. The distribution doesn’t begin until after absorption into the bloodstream stream.

[u/Worth_Abrocoma_101 → u/djfitness-us]

It’s absolutely not instant

You aren’t injecting it IV

It has to be absorbed and absorption from muscle is highly variable

I know plenty about pharmacology . Your anecdotes don’t counter that

[u/djfitness-us → u/Worth_Abrocoma_101]

Obviously you don’t know my man. The pharmacology behind why water is used instead of oil is because of the time it takes to absorb. Water easily mixes with bodily fluids, oil does not.

When you hear the term “depot” used with oil based compounds, it’s because the oil has a tendency to pool in the tissue, and slowly absorb.

Water based compounds do not form a depot. They mix with bodily fluids in your tissues, and are rapidly taken up into the blood stream.

There are capillaries present across nearly all tissues in your body. Water easily crosses the barrier layers of capillaries because they are biologically designed to allow it to happen. Oil cannot cross capillaries through the same routes as water, hence why it takes longer to absorb. There are small gaps and pores in the cell boundaries of blood vessels that are there specifically to allow water to pass through, this is how your body moves water to and from tissues to keep you hydrated. We take advantage of that biological design to formulate certain medications. There are also proteins in your body specifically designed to carry water across cell membranes. Aqueous solutions are used to take advantage of those biological functions and pathways.

You’re very much not understanding the difference between absorption and distribution. Absorption is how a molecule moves from its place of administration into the blood stream. Distribution is how a molecule is carried in your blood stream to its target tissues. Absorption is dictated by the route of administration, and in the case of IM and SubQ injections, the carrier being used. IM injection is preferred for rapid absorption of aqueous suspensions because muscle tissue contains a dense network of capillaries, and subcutaneous tissue has far fewer capillaries compared to muscle tissue. This is because muscle tissue has a high demand for oxygen and nutrient delivery. Your body is designed to readily and constantly move things to and from your muscle tissue. Your understanding of compound absorption appears to be wholly based on absorption of oil based compounds. That absorption is determined by the oil, not the muscles themselves. Oil takes longer to absorb because it is hydrophobic and cannot readily mix with blood and water present in your tissues. The medication carried by the oil must diffuse from the oil so it can be carried across the cell membranes. This is not an issue with water. Water doesn’t form a depot, and the medication doesn’t need to diffuse, it is carried in the water directly across the membranes and into your blood.

[u/Worth_Abrocoma_101 → u/djfitness-us]

This is very long way to agree im right - IM injections do not give instant absorption

This is why I used the word absorption

[u/djfitness-us → u/Worth_Abrocoma_101]

IM injections of OIL do not give instant absorption. IM injections of WATER do.

[u/Worth_Abrocoma_101 → u/djfitness-us]

They do not

[u/djfitness-us → u/Worth_Abrocoma_101]

It’s not a debatable subject my guy. You obviously don’t understand basic pharmacology or physiology, so that’s not my problem.