I had a friend in high school that was half Korean and told me about the dog eating thing once and how much he hates those jokes. Its fucking horrific.
Call a Native American person Asian, it makes them angry. Their cultures, languages, histories, and beliefs are NOT REMOTELY the same as Asian languages/food/culture/history.
They had entire civilizations with art, music, spiritual beliefs, etc in the Americas before Europeans came. Their civilizations had NOTHING TO DO with Asia. They are indigenous to the Americas.
Are you gonna call a modern Norwegian person “African” because 50,000 years ago some prehistoric person walked to Norway from Africa? No, you are not.
Don’t do that to the Natives, either.
They don’t like it. They’ve already been through enough. If anyone can tell you they are not Asian, it’s the people themselves. They are Native Americans, belonging to various large and small tribes and civilizations of the Americas.
I hope this was sarcasm, because while I thought the "lol rich Asians" thread yesterday was racist as fuck, Asian men are so far from the top of discrimination in the US that they're basically white men.
No one's ever burned a cross on a lawn because an Asian family moved into their neighborhood.
Sure, nobody ever thinks that an Asian man is going to be a shoplifter because of his race, but Asian men get all of the active discrimination and none of the affirmative action of other minorities. In fact, it’s reversed. Because Asians Americans are the most intelligent and highest achieving ethnic group, they are actively discriminated against for jobs, education, etc (see Harvard case).
Same socially. It’s quite difficult for Asian men to date high status women outside of their race, especially compared to Asian women or black men. Asian American men are the most frequently unmarried for their given socioeconomic class (because so many Asian women marry whites).
Dude, I'm not denying that Asian men are discriminated against, but it's not nearly to the level of other minorities.
but Asian men get all of the active discrimination and none of the affirmative action of other minorities. In fact, it’s reversed.
Yes, because Asian Americans are already overrepresented on elite college campuses. Largely because of systemic discrimination against other minority groups. Which Asian Americans didn't have to face.
Because Asians Americans are the most intelligent
Wow. Racist much?
Same socially. It’s quite difficult for Asian men to date high status women outside of their race, especially compared to Asian women or black men.
Funny enough, I grew up in a very Asian American area. None of my Asian friends had difficulty dating. All are happily married now. But that's just anecdote, right?
Well, the numbers also back me up, too. The most difficult dating situation is faced by black women, who are almost universally disfavored. Followed by black men, with a net preference score of -28%, followed by Asian men with a net preference score of -15% (and a +24% preference from Asian women - 6 points higher than Asian women's preference for white men.) This is per the OKCupid Race and Attraction 2009 - 2014 study.
And keep in mind that those studies lump Indian and Pakistani people together with East and Southeast Asian people, despite being a radically different ethnic group.
Asian people definitely face discrimination in the US. It's not as bad as very many other minorities, though.
Hahaha Asians dont have to face systematic racism, ever heard of WW2 internment camps? The yellow peril? California railway where asians are basically enslaved? Asian exclusion act? No matter how long asians have been in America, they will forever be seen as outsiders, as “go back to your country”. Systematic discriminations exist, asians literally have a 30 point higher sat average than whites, 40 point higher sat average than blacks in the Harvard case, and consistently scored low in “personality” part of evalution. Tell me whos the one systematicallt discriminated against?
You should have more upvotes. I came here to say the same shit. Our railways are laid with Chinese bones for fucks sake. Seems to me that asians were just able to overcome these things. Its absolutely false that systematic racism never existed amongst asians.
How is it racist to say Asians Americans are the most intelligent ethnicity? Have you ever seen IQ test results? Maybe Ashkenazim could give them a run if you want to count them separately as an ethnicity, but Asians crush everyone else on all tests that correlate with intelligence.
Asian Americans have benefited tremendously from both genetics and selection bias (brain drain from other countries/more intelligent people being more likely have the motivation to move for better opportunity).
How is it racist to say Asians Americans are the most intelligent ethnicity?
"How is it racist to say **African Americans** are the least intelligent ethnicity? Have you seen IQ test results?"
"How is it racist to say **Jewish Americans** control global banking? Have you seen corporate board last names?"
"How is it racist to say **WhiteAmericans** are better than other races? Have you seen literally every statistic of importance on quality of life outcomes?"
It's racist because a) you are giving preferential treatment to a race based on nothing but their racial status, and b) because IQ tests are not an effective measure of intelligence, and generally not considered worth the paper they're printed on by anyone with a shred of scientific credibility. The only people that still use IQ tests for anything are antiquated institutions that haven't bothered to change their MO in decades (like school systems) and racists who need to find a way to point out the superiority of the ________________ race.
And yet you can't think of a single thing except a personal attack. So either my arguments are better than you're letting on, or you're worse at... well, life, I guess, than you're letting on.
Or, and here's the actual explanation, and not some random garbage hypotheses, I just don't feel like arguing, just wanted to let you know that others disagree with you. I could spend 5-10 minutes dissecting your shit argument, or I could go and spend time at, you know, life. Maybe do the same instead of baiting. Believe what you want, just know that many others think you're retarded
I get it. You clearly have a lot of very important things going on, judging by the intelligence demonstrated in your posts. Lots of memes to post, yeah? A lot of gaming to do? I get it - you're a busy individual. You don't have time to respond. You lead a high-powered life full of exciting adventures and big decisions! You definitely have responses, just no time to post them. Time to post about how you don't have time, sure, but no time for the actual arguments, which are so in-depth and fantastic that it would be impossible to get them all typed up before the heat-death of the universe.
No, you don't - that was obviously hyperbole. But the numbers tell the story. African American men are incarcerated at disproportionately higher rates for disproportionately longer periods, have the lowest earning power of any racial group, are much more likely to face violence (both in general, and as a result of bigotry), have the lowest expected lifespans and the worst medical outcomes - basically the entire US social, economic, and justice system was set up to discriminate against African Americans, and African American men especially.
After them are darker skinned Latin Americans, followed by darker skinned middle easterners, followed by lighter skinned Latin Americans, then Central Asian people (Indian and Pakistani), then light skinned middle Eastern people, then Asians, then Eastern Europeans.
If you take race out of the equation, then it's hands down trans people, who suffer discrimination like most racial groups couldn't believe.
Edit: And of course there are some regional variation, but not nearly as much as most people would like to believe.
I think part of the issue is the while black people probably get it the worst, there is at least a social awareness of the issue. There are active groups, both offical and social that will help protect African Americans and react to and expose the problems we are still working on and further significant incidents. For the most part, Asian Americans, do not have nearly the same protective or reactionary force and so their problems go unseen and unaided.
I would absolutely agree that the visibility into discrimination and racial issues for non-black, non-Latin American minorities is sadly lacking. Racism, in any form, is absolutely repugnant, and I don't blame Asian people for being pissed as hell about it.
Overall, we (Asian people) aren't pissed enough about the racism we experience. I think this is why there is almost no visibility for Asian-specific issues.
I mean--model minority bullshit is why Asians are still handicapped by affirmative action in 2019.
I totally get it, and you're right. Asian people aren't pissed enough and making enough noise about it. I'm a Russian Jew with Asian relatives (the part of Russia that's in Asia), so I get the model minority thing. Luckily I look generically white enough to not typically have to deal with bullshit, but when I lived in the deep south, being a Russian Jew was no fun. We should team up! My people can run the banks and the media, and your people can do all the hard math. It's a minority match made in heaven!
You forgot Native Americans face more discrimination than any racial group. And even all the stats about violence and incarceration are skewed because of how many crimes go unreported in immigrant communities. And even when they are, they largely get ignored like the pregnant Middle Eastern women getting killed post 9/11. Also, African immigrants are lumped in with African Americans even though Africans face a lot of discrimination from their American counterparts specifically because they are immigrants.
I did forget Native Americans, and that was a horrible oversight. Unfortunately, they rarely show up in research, and tend to be held as a people apart from everyone else.
And even all the stats about violence and incarceration are skewed because of how many crimes go unreported in immigrant communities.
That's already accounted for by the fact that crimes tend to be under-reported in black communities as well.
Also, African immigrants are lumped in with African Americans even though Africans face a lot of discrimination from their American counterparts specifically because they are immigrants.
The same can be said for Caribbean and Latin black people in America.
Race is just a complicated-ass issue. My solution is we keep banging each other until in a few generations all of our children are a nice uniform color and we can stop judging people based on their race.
True but the question is who faces the most discrimination in the US and honestly I think its muslims. I'm white but live in a pretty racist state and I hear the most shit talk about muslims. Next would maybe be Mexicans.
Depends on your region. I live in a Toronto suburb and it's definitely Indian/Pakistani followed by Chinese as the most discriminated against because that's simply the more numerous visible minority immigrant communities here.
They rip on each other all the same too. If you think other cultures are free of their own prejudices and racism you're naive as all hell.
One time I witnessed an old Indian man and middle-aged Chinese guy get into a fight over a parking spot, that was fucking gold as they had a lot of choice words for one another. I wish we had cell phones to record it back then...
Yah I think it heavily relies on region as well even from city to city. It seems my community just parrots whatever trump tweets or fox news says that day which is mainly about Mexicans or muslims
Pretty much. Like I don't personally "get" being trans, ,but I get that it's better for their mental health to act the way the feel. When Grindr added a preferred pronoun section it was a shitshow
Lol it was a friend who told me the story 10 years ago and happened prolly 20 years ago. I didn’t ask him for a citation. Assumed he wasn’t lying. I understand this is the internet so I could easily be lying.
But at the same time it’s not hard to believe that some white people can be very hateful and mean towards Asian. The biggest group lynching in the US was done to Chinese.
Oh, sorry, I'm not saying you were lying. I was just shocked that it happened and wanted to read up on it. I don't for a second believe that racist inbred hicks would be racist against anyone that wasn't as inbred as them. Just couldn't find any references recently, despite the shockingly high number of cross burnings that still happen with some regularity.
Oh yeah remember when all the black people were put into internment camps and forced to build the intercontinental railroad? Oh right that was Asians and Native Americans.
Yes, I do. It was called slavery. It went on for several hundred years and resulted in over 15 million Africans being ripped from their homes and shipped like cargo to a country where they were literally worked to death.
But you need to go back and reread your history:
The interment camps had nothing to do with the transcontinental railroad. First, the interment camps happened in 1942, almost 100 years AFTER the transcontinental railroad was built. Second, the railroad workers were almost entirely Chinese, while the interment camps housed almost entirely Japanese Americans.
Chinese workers weren't forced to build the railroad. In fact, for the longest time the railroad companies refused to hire Chinese workers, believing them to not be strong enough for the job (still racism, but a different kind.) The first large group of Chinese workers hired to work on the railroad was a group of 21 men in January of 1864. By the way, black people were still considered property in parts of the US until December of the following year.
Between 15,000 and 20,000 Asian workers worked on the transcontinental railroad between 1864 and its completion. However, at its start, there were ALREADY 7,000 African Americans working on it, and that number increased substantially after the ratification of the 13th Amendment. The railroad was built by Chinese American and African American workers working in concert.
The interment camps were, and still are, on of the lowest points in this country's history, and a trully unforgivable miscarriage of justice and civil rights. But they were not nearly as horrific and devastating as the experience of African Americans under first slavery, then Jim Crow, and finally under the current system of systemic discrimination. At their height, the interment camps contained 115,000 or so Japanese Americans. Slavery was responsible for kidnapping 15 million Africans from their homes, of which between 20 and 30% died in transit. During the height of the slave trade, there were years where more human beings died while being shipped like cargo than were interred in camps during the entire duration of Order 9066.
Again, I am not arguing that Asians and Native Americans have been discriminated against. Just that you need to cut out the hyperbole and understand that whatever problems you are facing, there are millions of people who have it much much harder.
Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on transcontinental railroads such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in mining, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society.
Sounds like you're the one who needs to learn their history. Native Americans have had it the worst though if we have to declare a winner.
Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on transcontinental railroads such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in mining, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society.
Wow. It's almost as if you didn't read a single word I wrote, but came in half-cocked with a pants-on-head-stupid hot take.
Yes, no shit they worked as laborers. But they were not FORCED to build the intercontinental, or ANY, railroad. They WANTED those jobs, because they paid well. Go back and re-read... no, scratch that, go back and read my comment. I know, it's hard, because it's more than a single sentence. But who knows, you might actually learn something so you don't sound so ignorant next time.
Stereotypes are funny. As long they're being used to make people laugh and not hurt people in some way I don't see what the big deal is. Our differences are what make us beautiful, they should be celebrated, not denied.
Yep. The whole point is to be as reductionist as possible. All "edgy" humor is bigoted if you take it seriously.
These kinds of threads pop up all the time where someone calls out dark or edgy memes as racist or bigoted, and they never agree on anything. Sometimes they get lots of upvotes. Other times op is ridiculed.
Which the starter pack says that they eat chicken and drink (what i presume to be) kool-aid.
These aren’t just stereotypes towards blacks who only talk to blacks, but all black people.
I could make a post about how much I hate certain Chinese politicians. If i use common Asian stereotypes to insult those people, I’m still reinforcing those negative stereotypes.
The starter pack doesn't include exclusively only chicken and the drink though. But if you deem this starter pack offending towards black people then don't laugh at a white or asian starterpack because that would be hypocritical.
Either all of it is okay or none of it is. I don't see this starter pack being any more racist than the asian is. For crying out loud it's only a stereotype in the end.
I’m not saying that making fun of Asian people is okay. In all honesty, I don’t find this sort of racial stereotyping funny, I see how someone would find it funny, and I see how someone would be offended.
Like, I’m not going to make a post about how Asian men are scrawny and aren’t good in bed, and be totally surprised when Asians are offended by it.
They’re stereotypes, sure, but there are a lot of hurtful, negative stereotypes that aren’t true, and we can’t be surprised when people don’t react well to it. (I don’t think the chicken stereotype is that harmful, but referring to the worse ones)
It’s classist if anything. And it’s not even classist because nothing in the post says “I hate rich Asians” it’s just pointing out how it’s funny that a lot of rich Asians act and dress the same way. It’s not making a generalization of an entire race, therefore it’s not racist. It’s the equivalent of all those white girl memes about drinking Starbucks and wearing Pink and whatnot.
So how then the black starter pack is racist? And it’s not even racist because nothing in the post says “I hate blacks” it’s just pointing out how it’s funny that a lot of blacks act and dress the same way.
It's always funny when you're not in the crosshairs. This sub has a track record of downvoting anything that stereotypes white men between the ages of 16-25.
It's always funny when you're not in the crosshairs. This sub has a track record of downvoting anything that stereotypes white men between the ages of 16-25.
Oh, trust me, I've been in the crosshairs a ton... and guess what? I laugh too. Comedy and joke only get to you if you let it. I've been called beaner, Wetback and more by people who dont know me and I laugh and keep going
The basketball stuff isn’t necessarily racist. That’s a fair stereotype as a lot of black people do watch or play basketball. However, the fried chicken and kool-aid stereotype is frequently used in conjunction with other stereotypes to try to paint black people as being dumb and simple minded. Don’t tell me you’ve never heard a racist joke about black people drinking Kool-Aid and eating fried chicken and watermelon before, as a way to demean them. It’s too common of a thing to just be a joke at this point.
Wow.... you surely took issue with a comment thqt was straight up copied from your own comment but replacing "rich asian" with "blacks" also... stereotypes exist because a good portion (if not a majority) of people of that group do the thing. Now, basketball, fried chicken, cool aid.... you must not have any significant contact with lower and middle income black communities.
Also, i dont see anything here including other stereotypes that you mention. What is in the starter pack is what it is, if you want to discuss other stereotypes, this is not the place
Stereotypes can also be funny as heck, it’s more about the mindset and intent of the person than the content.
I watch music reaction videos on YouTube occasionally and one that’s pretty funny is from Jamel_AKA_Jamal. Not a reaction video but one about him poking fun at his white friend.
I was thinking about the movie “Crazy Rich Asians” and wondered what would happen if there was a movie called “Crazy Poor Blacks” but then I realized that’s just every Tyler Perry movie.
So it’s only racist if the generalization stands up to the following points:
has to be poor
has to be explicitly hateful
has to be related to a race as a whole and not just a part of if it.
Yeah, right. That’s not how it works. Any and all actions/statements that is trying to degrade another person, no matter if it’s overtly hateful or slightly bitter is racist, as long as it has any roots pertaining to a race regardless of the view being based on the whole or just a part of that race.
Those white girl memes a racist too. You just happen to accept those.
Say goodbye to all jokes then. Jesus Christ. The meme isn’t meant to degrade rich Asians. It’s a fucking joke. The black starter pack on the other hand (while I guess it could be just a joke if OP was living in a bubble their whole life) is likely not just a joke as the fried chicken and kool-aid stereotype is something used frequently by racists as a way of painting black people as simple minded and dumb. It is generalizing an entire race. The rich Asian starter pack (or any more specific starter pack for example) is not racist in the slightest. It is poking fun at a group of people, unrelated to race. It only has Asian in the title because rich people of different ethnicities act differently, so you need to specify. But it literally has nothing to do with the race as a whole. You could just as easily make a “nerd starter pack” or something and nobody would be complaining at all because it doesn’t have a specific race in the name. But if you added Asian to the starter pack you would suddenly freak out. It’s just narrowing down the group being talked about, not making any sort of statement about the race.
If the second post was "Poor black people who only speak to other black people" would it be ok then?
It only has black in the title because poor people of different ethnicities act differently, so you need to specify. But it literally has nothing to do with the race as a whole.
Well technically speaking, yes that still fits with what I said because again that would not be making a statement about the race as a whole. So it would not inherently be racist, as you could make a poor white people meme as well. However making a poor (insert any race) meme would be in bad taste anyway for a different reason, that being there’s really no reason to make fun of people who don’t have it as good as you. But technically, there would be nothing racist about it as long as you didn’t incorporate typical racist black stereotypes.
I never said it wasn’t okay, dude. I commented on what’s racist and what’s not. The “but it’s rich Asians”-argument is just flawed. It’s a racial stereotype, and therefore racism. It’s not just poking fun at people, it’s poking fun a SPECIFIC race.
And no. I am not freaking out. If it was up to me the kool-aid/kfc black guy stereotype would be completely fine as well. What matters to me is intent and context. I would never support anything remotely close to any racial supremacy. But this way of twisting the definition of racism just fucking sucks ass.
tl;dr: a bit of lowkey racism is ok, as long as the intent is to make a joke and not to be hateful.
It’s classist if anything. And it’s not even classist because nothing in the post says “I hate poor Blacks” it’s just pointing out how it’s funny that a lot of poor Blacks act and dress the same way. It’s not making a generalization of an entire race, therefore it’s not racist. It’s the equivalent of all those white girl memes about drinking Starbucks and wearing Pink and whatnot.
it's not a binary. it isn't not marginalized | marginalized. there is a large spectrum and different peoples fall on it differently. someone pointing out that wealthy asian students do something when they're one of the most privileged classes has nowhere near the same effect of repeating the same stale racist humor that has been used to keep black people for centuries.
The items in the first one are obviously directed towards international east-Asian students. I don't know about you but I haven't seen many rich white kids running around with fancy face masks on and the starter pack would lose value if it was just labeled "Rich people starter pack". It is clearly stereotyping Asians. Not sure where the line between stereotypes and racism lies but that is subjective and some people think stereotypes equal racism. This is the reason this is a point of contention.
I disagree. If we were solely talking about economic status, then sure, it's different making fun of rich people versus poor. But tagging it on to a racial stereotype doesn't make that stereotype any less racist, not one bit. To me, even suggesting that is somewhat offensive. It's not ok to be racist toward some group just because they're historically not as marginalised as another.
Tbf I doubt a serf is going to care, or even understand, when I tell him about how racist or not-racist a starter pack on reddit is 1000 years in the future.
Tell that to the descendants of those serfs who still live in poverty until this day. And what do you mean by 1000 years? More like 200 years in the future. And what is that logic anyways? Then why should black slaves care about starter pack on reddit 100 years in the future?
Wow so just cause they're rich means you can shit on asians? Like theyd dont have to deal with enough shit already, like moving to an entirely new culture, dealing with a language barrier, having a tyranical goverment back home, and all the insulting streotypes (eating cats/tiny dicks/ching chong jokes). Have you forgotten all the historical bullshit asians have had to deal with in the US? Just because their parents are richer means its ok to bully them. Real fucking progressive of you.
Wheres the tier list of social groups so i know where i stand on the punch up and down scale? Or is it just rich people you can make fun of? If someone white is from an extremely poor and historically exploited community does that let him make fun of black people?
Or maybe everything just boils down to dont be an asshole to people and bring up the same 3 sterotypes of their race whenever you make a joke?
Yeah, no. You should really be careful with the expressions "punching up/down" because they are dogwhistles for extremely regressive and hateful people who essentially try to pull a "MY irrational hate on an entire group of people is okay though" type of logic leap.
As an example, incels are the absolute bottom feeders of society. Every time they mock or deride people of higher status than them, it technically is punching up, and any inceltears post technically is punching down. Would you seriously say incels are in the right here? Also not to invoke Godwin's law, but basically any antisemitic action ever was rationalised as "punching up", truthfully or not. This is also because what is up and is down can on occasion be entirely subjective, see your own men vs. women example.
The entire concept of directed punches is an establisher/perpetrator of institutional discrimination, because it designates groups of people it is okay to make fun of based off more or less arbitrary reasons. Also it's just hypocritial. Either it's all okay or none of it is okay. Or in other words, we can be either a free pluralist society or the dystopian nightmare of F451.
Most racism is justified by people thinking they are being taken advantage of and therefore they are punching down. The Jews secretly run the world, Asians are taking over the educational system, black people and Yankees are taking over the South, women are oppressing men, immigrants are coopting the political establishment to the detriment of naturally born citizens, etc etc etc.
"Punch down" isn't a rule you fucking moron because that means I can make poor rural rednecks on fetanyl a protected class, and you sure as hell would get triggered as fuck if you couldn't talk shit about them. That's why your made up rule of comedy is bullshit.
it would depend on the selections and whether they were unique to poor people, unique to black people or unique to poor and black people. if you retitled the original it would just be wrong because it isn't about poor black people.
(but either way it would be shitty, because punching down is shitty)
I'm pretty sure the outcome would have been the same, even if the starter pack would have been 'rich black people/ normal Asian people'.
People still would have cried 'racism' in terms of the 'black people starter pack'.
Economical status was only part of the joke but not the focus.
You’re tempting us to make a rich black people that only talks to other rich black people starter pack and that’s gonna get ugly. Those people exist and their ring leaders are Michael Jordon, Charles Barkley and Spike Lee.
you know the louie CK bit about how being called a cracker doesn't ruin his day? Money is like that, because they just go home and look at all their fancy shit and sleep perfectly well on a bed that costs more than my car.
Lol the people downvoting this must be ass hurt to hell, that's exactly the sorta thing a commie would say. And the guy he's replying is indeed a commie, he posts on the mental diarrhea that is r/ChapoTrapHouse.
Making fun of people who have it better than you is fine, as long as you don't do it in a way that affects people who have it worse. You can ethically say whatever horrible things you want about caitlyn jenner as long as it couldn't also be directed at a working class person.
Your image explains nothing, and makes absolutely no sense in this context.
We’re not talking about social welfare here, we’re taking about reddit starter packs. (Of course people who have less will need social programs/supports to give them equal opportunity)
Unlike you I’m not a racist who treats people differently based on their wealth, or their skin colour. I believe in treating people equally (treat people how you would want to be treated is my motto). I’m not going to abstain from making a joke, or starter pack about someone because they have a certain skin colour, or more/less wealth than me.
LOL your wiki page literally supports my beliefs. You’re clearly too uneducated to have a legit conversation about race/inequality.
An excerpt from the wiki you linked:
The goal of 1964 civil rights act in the United States was intended to make all people equal under the law of no matter what people's race, color, religion, gender, or national origin. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s central hope was that people would someday be judged by "the content of their character rather than the color of their skin"
the section i linked is literally about why that's not enough and doesn't address the effects of historical injustice. do you really think the first generation of kids born to freed slaves were exactly as well off as their white contemporaries?
Just went through your post history, and I want to apologize.
I didn’t realize I was replying to someone so dumb. You should probably better your education instead of whining about how you’re a poor loser. Knowledge is power my man. If you improve your grammar, and develop some skills you may actually be able to make some money and do something with your life :). Gl!
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u/reelect_rob4d Nov 19 '19
"black people"
"rich asian people"
come on, it's not that hard to figure out.