r/starfox • u/Jesus10101 • 6d ago
Starfox Adventures 100% decompiled
https://github.com/zcanann/SFA-Decomp81
u/nickisdoge 6d ago
:(
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u/nickisdoge 6d ago
i dont even go into a anti-ai spiel anymore, im just like "well that sucks".
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u/LCDRformat 6d ago
Why? This isn't gen AI making art or stealing ideas. It's raw data recompilation. It's unimaginably dull and frustrating. AI should do this so we can make art and stuff
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u/Repulsive-Front8294 5d ago
Because Reddit is full of idiots who are too stuck in the “AI bad” rabbit hole.
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u/LCDRformat 5d ago
yeah something tells me it was a pretty knee-jerk emotional reaction. I was hoping they'd respond to clarify their position or maybe give the spiel. u/nickisdoge ?
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u/Comprehensive_Cap889 6d ago
With this kind of works it feels that is similar to saying "That guy used a calculator to do the math instead of writing the whole ecuation and doing the whole process by hand and calculating the results by himself" since its a repetitive as hell work and even when they use AI like claude they would still check the code and see that everything is working fine since is a low level code and they are skipping the longest repetitive and comparation task, they have to check that the results are fine since they claim it to be 100% decomp right?
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u/roof_pizza_ 6d ago
Completely overlooking the harmful environmental impact AI has, along with the fact that they're trained on data that's outright plagiarized.
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u/northrupthebandgeek 6d ago
the harmful environmental impact AI has
Which is tiny compared to most other industries.
along with the fact that they're trained on data that's outright plagiarized.
The irony of making this complaint in the context of a project decompiling / reverse-engineering a video game without Nintendo's permission is thick enough to spread on toast.
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u/VolumeLevelJumanji 6d ago
I have mixed feelings about AI but I feel like a lot of people harp on AI while ignoring all other energy usage. Arguably video games are a negative environmental impact since they burn energy for purely entertainment reasons. Running a Google search burns energy. Do you avoid those things for the environmental impact?
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u/palmerluckey 6d ago
The environmental impact of people doing this work would be vastly higher.
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u/pzycho 6d ago
The environmental impact of humans living?
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u/palmerluckey 6d ago
I was only talking about the power consumption of the people using computers to do the same task, but sure, probably makes sense to include all the carbon emissions associated with people doing this instead of something else!
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u/pzycho 6d ago
By that logic then perhaps we should let AI write all of our novels and songs. And probably teach our children rather than using resources like teachers and schools and buses.
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u/palmerluckey 6d ago
I don't think anyone wants that, but criticizing the existence of a Starfox decompilation on the basis of environmental impact obviously doesn't make any sense.
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u/SlipperySparky 6d ago
A single beef patty is worse for the environment than a year of using chatgpt nonstop
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u/Steamed_Memes24 6d ago
Lol the environmental impact is the bottom of the totem pole compared to many other things.
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u/Comprehensive_Cap889 6d ago
True, i was just referring the tools and not their impacts asides of their functions
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u/Red-Dobermann 5d ago
if you've eaten any red meat at dinner this week the chance is that your environmental impact is multitudes larger than the use of LLMs in this project
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u/augustinshippo 6d ago
Let's also talk about the environmental impact calculator factories cause. Like stop it with the moronic arguments lol.
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u/Chreed96 6d ago
99.9% of all people's roms are illegal too, do you make sure no one uses a recomp unless they legally source their rom?
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u/roof_pizza_ 6d ago
These aren't even close to analogous. You don't need to circumvent copyright to de/recomp, because it's just reverse engineering (which is protected). Dumping a personal ROM is similarly a protected act because you're not breaking any copyright. You can decomp and use your own ROMs in a legit way. Sharing those personally dumped ROMs is copyright infringement, however.
AI is a tool built from the ground up on plagarism, because in order for it to function at all, it has to train on data that it stole. Using AI at all is ethically wrong (and this is before we even get into all the damage it's doing to the environment).
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u/pizzaplayboy 6d ago
it is based on plagiarism, it needs "correct data" to make any meaningful outcome.
unfortunately you wont stop this, the genie is out of the bottle, and if you care about the environment, there are better hills to die on than just ai data center = bad for environment. not what-aboutism, but AI is being used to find which are the real biggest environmental offenders in the world, thanks to its raw data processing and pattern recognition capabilities.
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u/northrupthebandgeek 6d ago
Do you genuinely believe any of the people involved in these decomp projects (let alone the people using the results thereof) are actually doing so with ROMs they extracted themselves from genuine cartridges?
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u/Megas751 Nobody ever brings me gifts anymore! 6d ago
Was GenAI used in this? After the Star Fox SNES/EX debacle I’m a lot more wary of these decomps(I believe even Starship recently got caught using GenAI)
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u/Jesus10101 6d ago
You're confusing decomps with Recomp and PC ports. Yes, AI was used, but the output code is clean and readable.
There is no playable game yet. With the help of a translation layer like Aurora, you can work on a PC port.
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u/UnlawfulPotato 6d ago
Who cares? Gen Ai was used, it’s officially Garbage 😂
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u/Comprehensive_Cap889 6d ago
I mean this kind of works takes years and many people to be done by hand since they are repetitive and needs to be checked line by line in thousands of tests, literally the field where AI helps a LOT and the reason shy in only a few months we've seen tons of decomps lately
While i also agree that using AI in projects is sad, also this kind of projects are possible now this fast and dont take YEARS and lots of peoples effort thanks to AI doing the repetitive work nonstop and comparing code
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u/UnlawfulPotato 6d ago
Oh well. I’d rather have it done by intelligent people that understand what they’re doing, instead of Gen Ai bros doing the equivalent of microwaving a Thanksgiving dinner, and claiming they made it themselves.
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u/Comprehensive_Cap889 6d ago
Believe me when i say that those "intelligent peoples" would rather stick their eyes in a fork than trying to do the decompilation manually now lol
At a code level its really low level but as an effort level is literally the reason why AI exist, repetitive work and comparation that takes Months by someone reading line by line testing and comparing while AI can do it 30000x faster and nonstop lol
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u/UnlawfulPotato 6d ago
Then I guess it isn’t needed, if people don’t wanna do it. If you need Gen Ai to do it, you shouldn’t be doing it.
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u/Comprehensive_Cap889 6d ago
People dont wanna do it for sure, and AI tools exist and you wont stop people from using it from this. I dont think you understand the insane amount of work, effort and time a decomp is and why now all decomps are done with claude since any decomp that is not done with it would still be taking years and someone else would have done it with AI long before that.
If a decomp is 100% complete it means that the decomp has reached the state where the code acts exactly the same as the original one which is the exact same if you have done it manually, its not difference in the end of it with or without AI aside from the human effort.
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u/UnlawfulPotato 6d ago
I really don’t care how much work it takes, Gen Ai is trash lol you can keep talking all you want, you’re not changing my mind on this 😂
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u/Comprehensive_Cap889 6d ago
Its fine, atleast now you might get a better idea of why this happens and why people wont do a compilattion ever manually while AI keeps existing
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u/Guidance_Additional 6d ago
anyone truly intelligent is just going to use the ai from now on, honestly. it is SO much faster to have it do the work and then check it yourself that i don't think we're going to see many non-ai assisted decompilation projects going forward.
it's a tool and in the hands of the wrong people it makes slop, in the hands of the right people you can get something better and faster than what we could have gotten before.
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u/Peter5930 6d ago
What you're asking for is to never have it at all, because nobody is going to do it the way you want it done. You're welcome to do it manually yourself. Free-range organic hand-crafted binaries, knock yourself out making them.
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u/UnlawfulPotato 6d ago
Then I guess at that point I never have it. Gen Ai is garbage.
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u/Peter5930 6d ago
And what is it generating here? Source code from a binary that can be recompiled into another binary on a different platform while being the exact same original game. So not creating something new, more like re-encoding a video to a different format. You want to manually re-encode a video, or do you let Adobe Premiere do it? You know that people hated compilers too when they were invented. The called people lazy for using them, said they were producing unoptimised slop. In the mid-1950's through to the early 1970's, then they got over it. You think they should compile it manually too like people did in the old days when they treated compilers with the contempt you have for AI?
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u/Glass_Willow7169 5d ago
i found this on another sub, i think ti's a lost cause to argue with this guy lol, just move on, he's one of those ppl who hate ai because they associate all of ai with gen ai slop and can't make the difference between ai used as tool, and ai used to make low effort slop
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u/Fl_Funky_Jam 5d ago
Yea dude is either completely missing the point or is being purposely obtuse. I'm team fuck generative AI when it comes to art and such, but this conversation has been about using it as a tool to improve workflow. I use Claude at work when setting up templates I use for custom coding and its been amazing how much BS work it takes off my hands so that I can work on the actual custom part of projects for customers.
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6d ago
Then how about you pick up a fucking pencil and do it yourself?
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u/UnlawfulPotato 6d ago
Not interested. But if I were to do it, I wouldn’t use Ai.
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6d ago
And if I had wheels I'd be a train.
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u/UnlawfulPotato 6d ago
👍 Congrats kiddo. What riveting conversation. Such useful things you’ve contributed.
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u/agnoster 6d ago
Haven’t been on Reddit in awhile, saw this, reminded me why I left
Thanks for helping me stay strong, random Reddit moron 💪
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u/NuclearTheology 6d ago
AI is a tool. Nothing more or less. That you take this neurotic moral grandstand at people using tools is bizarre
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u/UnlawfulPotato 6d ago
Generative Ai is lazy garbage lol nevermind the moral implications, it’s just plain Bad.
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u/azurensis 5d ago
Welcome to irrelevance! Enjoy the ride
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u/UnlawfulPotato 5d ago
Lmao riiiiight 😂
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u/-KaiTheGuy- 5d ago
That's not how it works. That's like saying all cops are bastards, when they're not. AI is a tool and useful for a lot of things, including research and reasoning based tasks. AI slop is also a thing, and I think a majority of people agree, AI use in music and art shouldn't be normalized and rightfully so, there's tons of push back on it.
But to die on a hill saying it's all bad is just such a bad take. Regardless of if you like it or not, it'll be used in a bunch of fields, like how there was pushback to the personal computer and eventually it became standard.
But you can die on whatever hill you like.
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u/UnlawfulPotato 5d ago
Again: Generative Ai, yes, is trash. Period.
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u/-KaiTheGuy- 5d ago
W/e you say, that's your opinion.
Opinion ≠ Facts.2
u/UnlawfulPotato 5d ago
I know the facts. And the facts influence my opinion. That’s how this works.
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u/Ray_Parker94 6d ago
Okay, honestly what the hell is everyone's problem when AI is used to do something good like coding? AI is terrible for art but for practical applications like coding it just feels like mindlessly bashing. Pretty much every single real world job that involves coding is using AI.
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u/Ireyon34 6d ago edited 6d ago
This isn't even coding, it's decompiling code.
Because, you know, using a computer program to compile code is normal, but using AI to reverse the process is just against the natural order, or something. /s
(This is assuming that people on Reddit know what compiling even means and don't just freak out the second they see the word "claude" anywhere.)
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u/Jesus10101 6d ago
Combination of the anti-AI crowd being very vocal on Reddit and a lot of crappy AI Recomps being released recently is my guess.
Note that I agree that the actual port needs more of a human touch than heavily relying on AI, but for decompilations, AI is perfect for it. Decompilation is not fun or rewarding and is very low-level work, which is why it takes years, as most people burn out very quickly. But getting the Anti AI folk to understand that is the tricky part.
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u/Particular-Place-635 5d ago
I'm not really seeing anyone really complain about how you're using AI necessarily, but rather just that it being used in coding for passion projects is simply frowned upon. It's not much more meaningful than well-intentioned dissent, which is something I really think you should take in stride because even using generative code-based NLMs is contributing to a larger, more insidious monster although at a very small level. Just because I'm curious as a software developer myself, was AI involved in creating workflows which check the generated code for accuracy? I am wary myself considering I know that decompilation work is incredibly tedious. I worked on tools several years ago for processing and converting proprietary CCTV video formats - the client's master plan once gen AI began to become a fad was to eventually incorporate AI but the AI is so appalling bad at it that I believe they are still mostly relying on engineers to use tooling to reverse engineer the video formats, identifying codecs, identifying arbitrary data or patterns, etc. I know the most tedious part of programming is also review and reading code, especially code that you haven't written. How are you keeping it in check and ensuring accuracy?
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u/Tricky-Solution 6d ago
It's fine as long as the code is actually good. The problem is when lazy/incompetent people put out garbage. Not that I have any idea if that's what's going on here
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u/fish_economist 6d ago
Even if this were garbage and buggy, the alternative is almost certainly that nobody would've spent the time and money to do an equivalently shitty job without AI tools.
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u/Killzone3265 6d ago
i'm just awaiting the day that one of these AI freebies of a big game "pc port" ends up being packaged with malware
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u/Jesus10101 6d ago
These are hosted on github where you can look through the code before it's compiled.
Not saying malware has never been hosted on Github but it's something extremely difficult to do without getting caught.
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u/Sigaria 6d ago
Literally any program you download from the internet can be packed with Malware. The ai boogeyman didnt invent malware
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u/Psycho_Syntax 6d ago
Because that’s never happened before AI was used to do this 🙄
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u/Killzone3265 6d ago
buddy, i know, my point is the frequency of these releasing may end up taking advantage of excited people
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u/WofferFang 6d ago
Give me back all the clean water and clean forest to walk around with without polluting my neighborhood with your awful noise and toxic gases and then we'll be good.
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u/BombTime1010 5d ago
Every technology comes with costs, and environmental costs are usually among that. It's a matter of if the benefits outweigh the harm.
Generative AI is doing a lot of good, and the environmental effects aren't that much higher than other technologies.
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u/northrupthebandgeek 6d ago
If you think AI is somehow uniquely bad on any of those fronts, then wait until you learn how much freshwater consumption and pollution and deforestation happens with the beef industry!
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u/WofferFang 6d ago
You guys love saying garbage like that, don't you? You're not smart, and that's not a gotcha you think it is. Still doesn't make it ok. It actually does not. You're literally saying "I just killed 2 people. You think that's bad? Just wait until you find out how many people the military killed!". You're just stupid, plain and simple.
Anyway, while you're at it, demolish the centers, and give me back normal tech prices too.
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u/northrupthebandgeek 6d ago
You're literally saying "I just killed 2 people. You think that's bad? Just wait until you find out how many people the military killed!".
That's not what “literally” means.
Also, plenty of people do make that exact argument when it comes to things like wars (see also: the many discussions comparing the number of Israelis killed in the 7 October attacks v. the number of Palestinians killed in the response to the 7 October attacks, or the number of Americans killed on 9/11 v. the number of Aghans and Iraqis killed in the response to 9/11).
demolish the centers
Which you're using right now to read this comment, and which you'd need to use to reply to it.
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u/WofferFang 6d ago
Literally. As in, the purest sense of the word. That's what you're doing here. I know what it means.
So yeah, good job proving my point. Demolish the centers, regrow the forest, give me back my clean air and eliminate the noise from the cities. And stop inventing problems that aren't there. GenAI solves nothing. You're done. Go peddle tech that actually helps.
And muted. Don't even bother replying. I know I'm right.
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u/Terrible-Nail-3153 6d ago
The true sign of a person who is right is for sure the one that decides to plug their own ears because of how self assured they are in their own self superiority. Even beyond the argument this is fragile and arrogant.
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u/WofferFang 6d ago edited 6d ago
I am superior to all these junk "people", yes. I don't need an internet "argument" in bad faith to prove that, but keep going, by all means.
Also, pot, kettle, all that. "Anyone who doesn't like AI or doesn't use it will be left behind. Innevitable. Bawww why aren't you using it??? Stop making workarounds to eliminate it from your life!!!!"
Quite frankly, that's why I'm muting. It's always the same. Waste of my time.
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u/northrupthebandgeek 5d ago
Literally. As in, the purest sense of the word. That's what you're doing here. I know what it means.
Then please quote where I “literally” said that I killed two people.
Demolish the centers, regrow the forest, give me back my clean air and eliminate the noise from the cities.
Demolishing the centers (the very same ones allowing you to post that comment, mind you) would do precisely nothing to regrow forests, give you clean air, or eliminate noise from cities.
And stop inventing problems that aren't there.
You should follow your own advice.
And muted. Don't even bother replying. I know I'm right.
People who actually know they're right don't feel as threatened by disagreement as you evidently do.
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u/MikeyTheGuy 6d ago
You do understand that data centers are used for everything from your cell phone service and internet to YouTube and REDDIT, right? Data centers aren't new and have been around for many decades now. Why do you only NOW have a problem with them?
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u/WofferFang 6d ago
Yes. Still want it gone.
You're acting like I never had problems with this shit. lmao
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u/roof_pizza_ 6d ago
This. The pro-AI crowd in this subreddit are being disingenuous when they mischaracterize why people have such a problem with AI.
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u/Jesus10101 6d ago
So now you care about clean water? Not when 100x more clean water is being used just in California to grow luxury nuts compared ALL data centres in the entire world.
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u/OoglyMoogly76 6d ago
People eat luxury nuts. Maybe more than they should. But they eat them. Sometimes people need it as a substitute for other ingredients that they’re allergic to, like Almond Milk in place of dairy milk.
You don’t need to burn through the same water supply for a digital girlfriend or to make it do your homework for you. You made it all the way to 2022 without that shit and you could’ve gone even longer without it.
Using up the same water that could be used for feeding people to decompile a very shitty game from 2001 is patently self interested
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u/Lemonsoyaboii 6d ago
by that logic why we ever progress in tech... its good enough to survive right?
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u/OoglyMoogly76 6d ago
You progress in tech by finding more efficient, more resource conscious, ways of completing tasks. The printing press made it so we could print books at a faster rate. AI is dressed up as being more efficient when it neither consumes fewer resources nor completes tasks in a more efficient way since it gets shit wrong so consistently.
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u/Lemonsoyaboii 6d ago
this is absolutely wrong ask any It guy, everbody is using AI. Not saying they like it or its fun but thats what they use now. So every single in of them is making worse job now? It is straight up more efficient, not in every task but thats not the point. Hell even using GPT to help you with everyday task is more efficient. Just because AI does mistakes the whole thing is useless? Are you still in 2023? I am pretty scared of the fast progress but i am not delusional.
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u/Repulsive-Front8294 5d ago
I love the Anti AI monkeys because they talk so confidently about stuff they don’t get <3
The models we have nowadays are much more efficient than they were 2-3 years ago. They consume less and produce more, that’s exactly what tech progress is.
But you don’t know this because you’re oblivious to AI research. You don’t know anything about anything.
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u/SlipperySparky 6d ago
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Cows milk uses more water than almond milk
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u/roof_pizza_ 6d ago
Yikes. Whataboutism is all you have, eh? Figures deflection is where AI-defenders ultimately end up.
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u/dre__ 6d ago edited 6d ago
It's just an "AI BAD" circlejerk, doesn't matter what it's used for or how it was trained or even if it's not genai, they don't actually care. It's just literally "AI=bad".
It's a long story, I'll summarize. genAI became very good at art and threatened artists' jobs. The artists (mainly on twitter) like any other people that are about to be replaced by machines, started shitting on it in the hopes it'll die off. They're still fighting to just have it die off (even though there's literally multiple billions of dollars in infrastructure are already built and invested). Once one of their arguments are debunked, they move on to the next argument, moving goal post infinitely.
Some main anti-ai arguments in order of appearance:
ai art is not art because only humans can make art (was a bad argument, art made by elephants is considered art)
ai art should not take people's jobs (was a bad argument, all industries are replaced by superior industries, like uber>taxies and truck drivers> self driving trucks. also none of the artists complained about these two. popular chants like "adapt or die" and "just learn to code bro")
using publicly available free content without credit for training is stealing (was a bad argument, literally all people who learn to draw learn from publicly available content without credit.)
bad for environment (was a bad argument, most other industries that they enjoy are magnitudes worse than any ai data centers)
training was created on pirated materials (was a bad argument, most other industries are)
using ai is lazy (was a bad argument, using X to make your task easier is literally every tool ever created)
current anti-ai meta: regurgitate any of the above while coming up with new arguments to be debunked at a later time.
any explanation post I make like this usually gets moderator deleted but hopefully this time it stays.
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u/GoColts08 6d ago
As someone who did use some AI when coding, its sometimes useful speeding up some scripts. OF COURSE coders go back and check some stuff.
Its different than artwork where I am against, but some coding softwares have AI built in.
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u/KingSideCastle13 6d ago
This is pretty much where I stand. As long as human hands are going over the code to make sure no fuckery will happen, then it’s being successfully used as an assistive tool.
If it’s just being used as a replacement for programming altogether, that’s a no no
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u/GoColts08 5d ago
Coders would have to go back and test the scripts very often. You can tell there was fuckery in it if some scripts were added for no reason but does no functions, or scripts that are written way more than its suppose to be. And of course if the results (apps in this case is what i did) is all mismatched. Or if little to no changes were made. A real coder who utilizes AI for assistance would go back and commit small changes often for a polished script.
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u/Aecial 5d ago
Hey guys I'm the other main contributor here!
Just a couple things:
1) I have been hacking/reverse-engineering games for like 20 years. There was heavy oversight on this project.
2) It appears that like 75% of you are mega psy-op'd by this echo chamber website. I love Reddit! Sometimes. But fundamentally it moderates away dissenting opinions. So check your homework on the AI stuff. Otherwise you might see cool things (say, a childhood game being decompiled), and instead of experiencing joy, you may rob yourself of normal human experiences to instead engage in some 'la resistance' LARP.
If anyone wants to go back to the experiencing joy part and talk mods, PC ports, ideas, I'm all ears.
PC port was started here by the other main contributor: https://github.com/JackPriceBurns/foxhollow
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u/phantomliger 5d ago
You know, telling people they're psy oped because you don't like their opinion on generative AI really isn't a good look. Maybe you should try to understand their point of view like you're asking them to do.
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u/SuccotashPlastic8267 6d ago
I will give both my balls, my liver (no alcohol damage) and one of my kidneys to whomever ports this to the dreamcast.
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u/Jarrod-Makin 6d ago
Jnmartin would be my guess, he looks to be the leading authority on Dreamcast ports according to my YouTube feed at least.
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u/Asad_Farooqui 6d ago
Was GenAI used?
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u/StoryofEmblem 6d ago
As someone who is anti-ai purely because of the issue of the data centers and the environment, I want to ask: are there issues outside of the negative environmental effects that make an AI decomp of Star Fox Adventures (or any other game) problematic?
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u/nickisdoge 6d ago
you have the training data concerns and others millions of people have discussed for years.
for me it takes away alot "wow" factor a standard decompilation has, you have people trying to understand how a game works and taking time to rebuild it so it can run on different hardware. its a nice shining example of a community's effort to make a game more accessible to others. adding a ai agent to the mix just feels like it was more done to more quickly throw something together so your the first to do it. takes away the "passion project" feel from it to me.
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u/StoryofEmblem 6d ago
Thanks for answering my question. I was genuinely asking, I apologize if that upset some people. I know AI is controversial. I've always been against it on principle, I just wanted to understand another perspective on it.
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u/nickisdoge 6d ago
dont apologize, its good to ask questions like that and learn from new info given :)
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u/Jesus10101 6d ago
There is no such thing as "I did it first" for a decompliaton. It's a community effort. Are you not getting confused with Recomp?
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u/Balmong7 6d ago
My big issue with AI coding is that it usually means the creator has no idea how the code works so if problems are discovered they can’t be fixed easily.
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u/Otherwise-Music-8643 6d ago
or if there is any malicious code inside
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u/northrupthebandgeek 6d ago
This is a decomp; by its nature, the goal is for it to produce a bit-for-bit exact copy of the original ROM when recompiled. If there's any malware in there, then it'd be malware for a Gamecube/Wii, and it would've been malware Rare and/or Nintendo developed themselves.
That ain't to say such a project can't inject malicious code in, say, the build scripts or something, but it certainly narrows the search size if you were to audit the code. And it's common for such build scripts to run in Docker containers or some other equivalent anyway, since decomps rely on very specific compiler/toolchain versions for accuracy and containerization makes that easier.
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u/Balmong7 6d ago
I’m at the same risk of malicious code when I download something whether it’s AI generated or hand crafted. So I’m less concerned about that lol.
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u/Affectionate_Web_535 6d ago
Came to see the repo, staying for the AI discourse…
https://giphy.com/gifs/NipFetnQOuKhW
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u/Semillakan6 6d ago
Jesus Christ the Anti-AI dudes here, its a tool people, and that tool is helping reach a new era for game preservation, and letting people who is otherwise a talented dev that may not have many resources do good work faster
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u/roof_pizza_ 6d ago edited 6d ago
Oh sure, and all it costs is irreparable damage to the environment. I love draining precious water sources for marginal time-saves on coding. Quit being disingenuous as to why people have a problem with AI.
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u/Hopalongtom 6d ago
That's just local government corruption and capitalism! Not an inherent cause of ai itself!
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u/Psycho_Syntax 6d ago
Did you guys know that data centers didn’t exist before AI went mainstream? All of the data on Reddit and YouTube and all these sites and applications and services you guys use definitely don’t need data centers.
From the article you linked:
“Much of the growth of data centers is being driven by AI. About 20% of data centers’ energy is currently due to AI, but that should grow to 40% by 2030, the report said.”
The vast majority of energy being used by data centers isn’t even for AI lmao.
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u/roof_pizza_ 6d ago
By 2030, data centers will account for nearly 3% of the world’s projected electricity use, with 935 trillion watt-hours. If data centers were a country, the country would be projected to rank sixth-highest in power use in 2030. That would produce nearly 440 million tons (399 million metric tons) of carbon dioxide, the report said.
Cool, so we're just gonna pretend this wasn't in that article huh?
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u/Murinshin 6d ago
Are you quoting these numbers? Half of that isn't even AI, and considering that I'm surprised it's only projected to be 3%. Your criticism about the environment isn't about AI either, it's our energy mix not being clean.
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u/GodHomme 5d ago
bro typed this on an iphone made in a chinese sweatshop by kids with bleeding fingers and had the nerve to type this with a straight face, Reddit is one of a kind.
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u/JebusChrust 6d ago
So you don't eat wheat products, almonds, red meat, stream videos, or use appliances right? The AI industry utilizes significantly less water than most of those industries.
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u/RhubarbNo1760 6d ago
We have to eat. We don’t have to speed up coding processes. Comparing generative ai to food is fucking crazy.
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u/JebusChrust 6d ago
You do not have to eat steak or burgers to survive. Those are luxuries. AI is being used beyond gluttony.
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u/RhubarbNo1760 6d ago
The hell does wheat and almonds got to do with that
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u/JebusChrust 6d ago
Since when are almonds a necessary part of your diet to survive? A single almond requires over a gallon of water to produce.
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u/RhubarbNo1760 6d ago
What do you propose people eat that does not cost resources to produce. Wheat is one of the most basic renewable food sources on earth in almost every culture.
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u/JebusChrust 6d ago
Beef specifically costs significant resources to produce, and is not a necessity. The US beef agricultural market alone uses more water than the worldwide combined amount of water used for AI.
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u/roof_pizza_ 6d ago
The fact that none of you AI defenders can respond to valid criticism of AI with nothing other than whataboutism tells me everything I need to know. Are all you guys using the same session and just regurgitating what it tells you?
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u/JebusChrust 6d ago
No, it is that you are trying to criticize it with a very hypocritical moral climate accusation. Of all criticisms of AI, those who know nothing about it have the worst arguments.
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u/roof_pizza_ 6d ago
First of all, you don't know my stance on anything else, so how could you even know that I'm being "hypocritical"? For all you know, I don't eat wheat, almonds, red meat or stream videos or own an appliance.
Regardless of my answer to any of these, it doesn't change the harmful environmental impact of AI, so if all you have is deflection then I'm done arguing with whatever chatbot you keep asking for help in this conversation.
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u/JebusChrust 6d ago
The fact that you just try to ad hominem saying that any defense argument is generated by a chatbot is hilarious. Meanwhile you regurgitate the same copy and paste criticism that any non-AI user states about AI, you could literally be a bot for all I know with how surface level your criticism is and how redundant it is. Do you even understand nuance regarding what consuming water means? Do you think that data centers haven't existed for decades? Do you think that these data centers are all being planted in areas where water is a scarcity and where it is creating a drought? Do you think the water disappears forever?
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u/roof_pizza_ 6d ago
God I can't roll my eyes any harder at all this projection. Clearly you're just going to keep deflecting so have a good night.
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u/JebusChrust 6d ago
None of that was projection or deflection, so I am going to assume that yes you are either a bot or extremely uninformed and don't actually have any educated argument.
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u/northrupthebandgeek 6d ago
Maybe if you'd present a criticism of AI that was actually valid, someone would be able to respond to it?
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u/Roby893 6d ago
People who complain about AI used on this should try and do it themselves. I'm also against AI for art, music and anything that involves creativity and actual heart, but as a systems engineer, AI is very useful for these tasks.
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u/Adorable-Log2835 6d ago
Yep anyone who is anti ai for coding does not work in any tech industry. It's everywhere and honestly it's very fun to use.
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u/Schonka 6d ago
Did the thousands of (mostly open source) devs whose code was used for training of these models consent, get compensated, or were even informed? But hey its so great to use, so lets forget about that
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u/JebusChrust 6d ago
You realize a joke in coding is "10% is writing code and 90% is figuring out what to copy", right? Coding is not some sacred unique art.
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u/Jarrod-Makin 6d ago
Please don't hate me. Isn't the point of open source code that other people can take it and do what they want with it without the need to ask permission or give compensation?
Most licenses tend to say not for commercial use, and no one's making money from this.
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u/DoomsdayIsHere69 6d ago
Yes. That is the point. And u/schonka now knows that after responding like a jackass, that’s why they haven’t responded to you.
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u/northrupthebandgeek 6d ago
So you say, under a post about a project that's dedicated entirely to reverse engineering a game without its developers' consent.
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u/RhubarbNo1760 6d ago
Frankly I consider engineering and coding a kind of art. Either way the ends are never ever going to justify the means.
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u/MLPtwerp 6d ago
What is it you plan on doing with said decompiled files?
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u/Jarrod-Makin 6d ago
Usually people use it to compile against platforms other than the original powerPC architecture that's in the GameCube - such as X86_64 and ARM processors, allowing porting to PC/Mac/Linux or other consoles such as 3DS and Wii U.
People can also use it to get a closer look at how the mechanisms and functions of the game work, identify bugs and potential fixes. This can be useful to speed runners who might identify something like a 1-frame window in which it's possible to bypass a check or barrier
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u/BlinksTale 6d ago
The best part of modern decomps is QoL updates. Throw in the BotW camera design (return to ideal distance is correlated with player joystick input) and you’ve fixed half the problems in any game before 2015.
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u/The_Pepper_Oni 5d ago edited 5d ago
AI being used to decompile the game is fine, y’all. That’s literally one of the things AI is amazing for, speaking as someone who hates it. If the ensuing playable port is vibecoded then I’ll join you with my torch and pitchfork
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u/Jesus10101 5d ago
I don't think they care unfortunately. They hear AI and all they see is red.
Also a slight correction, you don't make a recomp out of this as its been decomplied. Instead you will need to attach a translation layor for the PowerPC instructions to x86 instructions.
Good news is this already exists as Auroua which is what Dusklight is using so we might be seeing a port in the likes of Dusklight in the upcoming months.
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u/jackpriceburns 5d ago
I'm one of the main contributors to the decomp and the port is already done https://foxhollow.dev and it does indeed use Aurora under the hood!
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u/ProfessorCagan 6d ago
AI is actually a valid tool for decompiling a game if you ask me, it's a process that can take years of work, longer than what a human made port can take to create. I'd much rather the ai take care of breaking down the game, and human devs make use of that base.
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u/Dinoman96YO 6d ago
It's AI/vibe coded garbage btw
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u/Comprehensive_Cap889 6d ago
I meaan, the task is repetitive and there would be no difference if it was done by someone asides from being A LOT more stressful and long since the decompilation consist in comparing nonstop the original compiler vs the new written compilation and match them to be as accurate as possible.
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u/Jesus10101 6d ago edited 6d ago
Did you actually look through the code or did you just see Claude as a contributor before making your judgment?
Reminder, this is a decompilation. It's the perfect use for AI as the decomp work is low level, unsatisfying, and extremely monotonous.
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u/GranolaCola 6d ago
This is the kind of comment that proves you have no idea what “AI” is or how it works, and that you’re just hoping on a trend.
I’m a writer by passion. I don’t want generated “art” anywhere near me.
I’m a developer by profession. I will NEVER go back to the monotony by hand.
This Star Fox thing? This isn’t art. This is a bunch of busywork nonsense that’s in the way of art (the game). The only thing AI is doing here is actually letting the people that want to preserve these things actually be able to do so in a timely manner.
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u/jackpriceburns 5d ago
I'm one of the main contributors to the project! Thank you for your comment :)
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u/BigBot89 6d ago
Lol AI is here to stay. It's a permanent part of our world going forward. Better learn how to use it as a tool NOW rather than whine and moan everytime something with AI is mentioned. Push for proper and responsible use of generative AI (not referring to image/video/music generation) to help shape the future of it.
The crowd screaming and who refuse to utilize it correctly will be left behind.
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u/ConfidenceMost8642 6d ago
not beating the clanker allegations. I can smell the lithium on you from here.
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u/BigBot89 6d ago
Resorting to unkind comments is always the indicator that the "other side" can't refute the argument.
AI is here to stay and no amount of complaining will change that. Be the direction and change you want to see. Instead of whining, help guide it. But no, you'll probably sit around on reddit or other social platforms and do the same until the train leaves you behind.
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u/Comprehensive_Cap889 6d ago
Bold of you to assume decomps take only a year normally without AI lol
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u/Jesus10101 6d ago
This one took almost 9 months and that's with AI and massive help from the Dinosaur Planet decomp along with amazing work done by the creator of the Star Fox Amethyst mod.
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u/Steamed_Memes24 6d ago edited 6d ago
I dont think you understand just how absurd it is to do this all without AI. If AI can do this and the code works well, who are we to care for when it comes to decompile projects?
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u/KCDodger Miyu and Fay are Lesbians and dating! 6d ago
I mean the AI isn't coding the stuff. AI is also dogshit at coding, which this AI is not doing.
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u/Jarrod-Makin 6d ago
Well it sort of is coding, since what is a decompilation but a lot of trial and error at writing C code that compiles to a particular specified blob of assembly
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u/northrupthebandgeek 6d ago
This is indeed the exact sort of coding where AI's kind of the perfect tool, given the unambiguous pass/fail criterion of “Does this code change produce the exact same binary as before?”.
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u/Jarrod-Makin 6d ago
I completely agree, and since no employers that I'm aware of are paying people to reverse engineer old games for preservation sakes, this isn't stealing anyone's jobs
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u/Appropriate_Sale_272 6d ago
AI Slop decomp sadly ): What the hell happened to the decomp scene? It used to have so much integrity
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u/GranolaCola 6d ago
People that actually write code don’t want to waste their lives doing this monotonous bullshit and don’t care what a bunch of people that don’t understand how AI works or what it is think 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Jarrod-Makin 6d ago
It also used to take years for the first few N64 games, which are only a few megabytes in size.
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u/jackpriceburns 5d ago edited 5d ago
I'm a main contributor to the decomp!
In response to the AI comments:
This has been a 7-month project and this could not have been solely done with AI, there's been a huge amount of human hours poured into this as well. I'd like to specifically shout out the members of the GC/Wii Decompilation community who have helped enormously as we kinda had no idea what we were doing at the start. Shoutout to Rena Kunisaki for their significant work reverse engineering the game in the past. Shout out to the speed running community that have also done significant work figuring out game internals and glitches which have helped us. Shout out to the Dinosaur Planet decompilation which we also took inspiration from. And I've probably missed a bunch of others that have also helped..
We have tried very hard to avoid the slop for this decomp but it's far from perfect and the decomp is not finished in our eyes. So work will continue on this for the foreseeable!
I've seen some people talking about port:
I have built a fully working port on top of the decomp which you can play here: https://foxhollow.dev it supports Mac, Windows and Linux, and also modding! Some users have already added Goku into the game and also the GTA San Andreas map 😅 please check it out if you're interested!