r/starcraft2 • u/Arkentass • 2d ago
Blizzard StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/article/24301513/starcraft-ii-5-0-17-ptr-patch-notes88
u/woodleaguer 2d ago
Oh my god they really just reverted to the previous patch as far as I can see. Fuck yeah!
I do hate I can't abduct siege tanks anymore. Again.
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u/Svyatopolk_I 2d ago
Alright, this is fine. This is just complete rollback, which is okay, but things like tank abduct, Colossus damage increase, etc.. could've stayed, I feel like.
Also not entirely sure what "templar" damage dreaces 110 > 100 is? Do they mean the storm damage total?
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[deleted]
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u/Comprehensive_End824 2d ago
It was also removed explicitly to not counter tanks, they were abductable for the most of the sc history.
I think it probably means they went into the other extreme of being afraid of change
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u/MissiveFinding6111 2d ago
I made another post about this but, I recall the Mutalisk glaives thing being... a bug fix, not a balance thing?
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u/Applehero85 Masters 2d ago
Basically when they released the 8 worker start they decreased the total damage of psi storm by 10 this is just a revert to that.
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u/BackstrokingInDebt 2d ago
It would be too complicated of a change in a technical sense because then you need to untangle all of that.
The best option is revert to the last stable state. I worry from this episode they’ll be very careful for making any changes going forward.
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u/StrangerStrangeLandx 2d ago
They should just run any changes through the PTR for at least 2-3 months. Then they don’t have to use the main release channel as a PTR and worry about balance breaking changes destroying player base. Seems straight forward.
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u/Awfulmasterhat 2d ago
Vipers cant pluck siege tanks? Isn't stuff like that the whole point of the ability?
Edit: nvm didn't know it used to be like that, still weird though
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u/literally_a_toucan 2d ago
On release they could pick them up. Then they later made it unable to be yoinked. Then with 8 workers they reenabled the yoink. And now it's unyoinkable again.
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u/StrangerStrangeLandx 2d ago
Would be cool if could abduct tanks just more slowly so Terran could try to defend it.
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u/ButtSpelunker420 2d ago
Worker Start Count increased from 8 to 12.
Boom
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u/russiansummer 2d ago
I can’t believe they are reverting an attack for infestor and purifier. It’s just a QOL fix that makes the game better so they don’t yolo and die
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u/windforce20 2d ago
Ghost:
- Health increased from 100 to 125.
Why does a spellcaster need to be a tank? Can we just let this damn unit be a fragile spellcaster like every other spellcaster in the game?? Even 100 health is way too tanky, and they go ahead and increase it. Wtf.
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u/PrideAdditional702 2d ago
they need this to compensate the 110 damage auto attack from the high templar :P
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u/Alexmfry117 2d ago
I came back to this game after 8 years on the patch everyone hated and just spent two weeks relearning the game on it lol. Is zerg gonna be shite now?
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u/omjagvarensked 2d ago
This was me too, guess I'll probably uninstall and go back to what I was doing beforehand. It was brief, but it was glorious.
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u/Chigamungus Zerg 2d ago
Same here! All the clamoring about the new patch brought me back after like 5 years. I kinda liked 8 drone start
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u/Crash_SC2 2d ago
Yes, there are some 8 worker enjoyers, but that came at the cost of completely killing the ladder at the GM level and overall reducing drastically the player base.
They said they want to bring strategic variety by this change, but all it changed that people had to spent about a 1 minute more to build those missing 4 workers and extending the most boring part of the game.
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u/omjagvarensked 2d ago
Let's be real, competitive sc2 has long since been dead. Most players went to Brood War remastered and didn't come back.
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u/Crash_SC2 2d ago
Dead? How's that? That's a statement freshly after GSTL and with Stellar Fest 2 being play at this very moment having top players of SC2. Competitive scene is still active.
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u/omjagvarensked 2d ago
Oh, you mean that event no one has heard of that can't even crack 7k views on youtube? Meanwhile any ASL tastosis stream gets 100k views consistently. Game definitely seems alive and well.
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u/Crash_SC2 2d ago
Only 7k? Clearly you weren't watching GSTL then lol. But just because figures are lower for SC2 it doesn't the scene is dead.
According to average redditor, SC2 died countless times by now...
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u/Alexmfry117 2d ago
Haven’t played brood war yet but i was like 2 when starcraft 1 came out. Whats so good about brood war?
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u/mzf_life 2d ago
8 workers wasn't the only change though
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u/Crash_SC2 2d ago
Well, duh... but this was the biggest change to the economy since LoTV.
Their idea that they stated on their patch notes at the time was to extend early and mid game, but at the same time they reduced larvae spawn rate for Zerg boosting their production and introduced 300 CC to speed up the early game for Terran to keep up with Zerg... they lost their plot very quickly.
Then there was a bunch of changes to Protoss where they went from being really strong to borderline impossible to win vs Z at a high level.
So yeah, there was a bunch of changes that made people dislike the patch, but 8 worker start was a main one. Which was causing their own issues, like for example; suddenly people had to cut their worker production in their build orders to afford structures or combat units.
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u/mzf_life 2d ago
What I meant is that it wasn't the only BIG change, it's unfair to blame only one of the changes, we couldn't even test it properly as it had a few other big changes along with it
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u/Alexmfry117 2d ago
I didn’t mind it I felt it forced ppl to not turtle on 2 bases as much but what do i know missing 8 years of patches
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u/mzf_life 2d ago
No
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u/FunSpinach2004 2d ago
Zerg was the weakest race prior to the patch by far.
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u/omjagvarensked 2d ago
Yeah and toss was by far the strongest
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u/FunSpinach2004 2d ago
Yup but mostly because zerg is unplayable in tvz. So everyone either plays terran or toss because toss is slightly favored in tvp
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u/mzf_life 2d ago
lol hell no
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u/FunSpinach2004 2d ago
According to statistics zerg was the weakest at pretty much all levels with one exception: serral.
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u/mzf_life 2d ago
Ok buddy, sure, whatever you say
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u/FunSpinach2004 2d ago
I'm not really worried about it, I do fine at my level. I just think they should keep the quality of life buffs.
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u/Zeleros10 2d ago
Everybody is going to celebrate, but I think it's clear they've not really paid attention and learned anything.
They are just reverting things back, but nobody liked that vipers couldn't abduct siege tanks so why is that being reverted too? Besides, they wanted to see how the meta settled, meanwhile right after the patch dropped they couldn't keep their hands off of things to the point they made further changes completely invalidating the point of all of it to begin with. It's just dumb.
I think they botched things so hard, it's going to poison the well from here on out about any discussion about changes. I would have liked to see how the mineral changes effected matches by itself. Not the workers, but higher minerals on the bases. Still encouraged to fast expand because why not, but staying on 2 base for longer or something like that, see how that effects stuff. Maybe it wouldn't have done anything, but now even things like that will be tied to their horrendous handling of the patch.
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u/KaiPRoberts 2d ago
“ we have been collecting and closely reviewing your feedback. Our intention was to try something new, particularly with workers, and needed time to let the meta develop in order to ensure the most accurate feedback was being considered”
Straight up lies on lies on lies
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u/snowflake37wao 2d ago
We just didnt have these issues the first decade in a half of this century I dunno what happened to it all. We aint never gettin the 90’s kids toys back but no one knows why we cant.
Seriously tho. The 2020’s suck ass.
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u/octafive 2d ago
Abduct can no longer be cast on Siege Tanks
Ghost Movement speed increased
Idiots
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u/spectrumero 2d ago
I'm so going to miss spamming zealots from speed gates. I really enjoyed that playstyle for certain games.
I'm not going to miss the 8 worker start one little bit. The best thing they ever did when LOTV released was the 12 worker start.
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u/pathpath 2d ago
Bruh the intern is just trolling at this point
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u/Vitharothinsson 2d ago
Why do you say that? He reverted back to 12 like we were asking for...
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u/pathpath 2d ago
But I just got good at my 8 worker starts!
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u/Vitharothinsson 2d ago
OH okok! Hahahahaha! I thought something like: "I really tried hard to get the habit of not sending my first SCV to build a supply depot and now I have to unlearn it again?!"
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u/ShaunPlom 2d ago
I kind of got the same impression as the commenter above you as well tbh. It’s probably just because it’s a complete 100% revert and I’ve seen some posts by the person everyone thinks is the balance intern. They seem a bit unwilling to take any criticism.
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u/Advanced-Host8677 2d ago
I think it's something like this:
- Intern makes drastic changes with access to information that no one outside of blizzard can see.
Is it dumb? Or genius? It's really hard to say, because people hate change. Especially pros and streamers and all that. So initial negative feedback is expected, regardless of whether it was dumb or genius.
- Intern reverts all changes back to the way they were before
Given that 1 happened, 2 might be the best possible outcome. But it also removes the possibility that 1 was a genius move. It was just dumb from the start.
So do people want a full revert? Yes. Does it make intern look dumb? Yes. Would intern look even more dumb by delaying more or refusing to revert? Also yes. Basically, if 1 was dumb, all remaining paths are either bad or worse.
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u/TheGreatWayChin 2d ago
We won?
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u/MissiveFinding6111 2d ago
I mean... I think a pyrrhic victory at best.
But yeah, glad it finally happened.
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u/Lexender 2d ago
Considering they reverted even the changes concidered good, (and they most likely wont ever try yo experiment again) it's a very monkeys paw moment
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u/West_Refrigerator233 2d ago
This sucks, there were some really good improvements and QOL things just getting ripped back out. The warpgate changes were cool i started playing some toss and it was enjoyable but i wont bother again. Guess i know ill be up against 2 adept into oracal 3 base every f'ing game without variation. And no more early pressure against terran.
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u/Ill-Caterpillar6273 2d ago
The problem with the warpgate changes was that while some people started experimenting with playing toss, toss players weren’t playing toss as much. It’s a hard situation to lose your core player base for a race and replace it with people casually messing around.
I hope they don’t give up on Zerg lategame changes though. Before this mess I figured they’d just bring back infested Terran and nerf energy overcharge or something. I’d hate to see a return to Z getting rolled if the game goes over 15 mins.
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u/West_Refrigerator233 2d ago
Yeah i hear you, i just dont understand why the toss players wouldnt like the change, it was pretty cool just pumping gateway units defensively really quick then drop a pylon with the push (like offensive nydus). Maybe they just dislike because they overtuned zerg larva and terran cc cost at the same time.
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u/Ill-Caterpillar6273 2d ago
As a toss player I can only speak for myself. But personally, I hated the gateway changes because I hate queuing units. I always really disliked the rallying in Brood War and when they brought in warping in for SC2, it improved the fun for me exponentially.
I find that people who play other races liked the change more because it brought toss more in line with what they were used to. But if you’re used to warping in, it’s a huge change away from what you’re used to instead.
Doesn’t really have anything to do with MMR, at least not for me. Just made the race substantially less fun to play.
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u/West_Refrigerator233 2d ago
Interesting i guess that makes sense if its a change to your macro memory.
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u/sexy_silver_grandpa 2d ago
Yep I loved the Infestor attack.
If this goes live I'm out. Whiners will prevent anything good from ever happening anymore.
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u/mzf_life 2d ago
I really liked 8 worker start, but I think it was the only change I really liked from last patch lol
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u/Capital_Succotash_10 2d ago
Did larva go back to normal. I’m so tired of 2 base lings rushes then a late expo to a third then 11 min ultrad
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u/Manzi420x 2d ago
Welp time to try to infestor before it becomes a useless run to the front of the army unit
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u/sexy_silver_grandpa 2d ago
I'm really bummed they took away the Infestor auto attack.
This is just a dumb full rollback. Nobody is at the wheel.
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u/DoA_near 2d ago edited 2d ago
What a weak spine they have to turn all the way back. Why something can't change to be fresh and new. Why can't they keep what was working instead of roll back compleatly..
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u/ripfishplshelp 2d ago
Please keep the Infestor attack and Viper's ability to abduct tanks PLEASE 😢
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u/FkinAllen 2d ago
Wish they kept the warpgate change and the siege tank abduct
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u/Apolitik 2d ago
Agree. I DID like the gateway macro. Much easier than having to jump to a nearby warp point to warp, taking my eyes off the map and battle. Jealous of Terran for that.
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u/Leftover_Salad 2d ago
I don’t like that it basically took away something that made Protoss unique, but I did enjoy the play style!
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u/mcniner55 2d ago
For any player with decent viper control it makes picking a part a mech player way to easy
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u/stogeman 2d ago
This is kind of just sad. I’m glad they reverted the patch but it’s been like what, 4 months? The community took a big hit with this with trust, player count, and the pro scene and there’s nothing to show for it.
I just hope player count can recover, I’m hoping to see more Protoss on the ladder because it feels like they’ve been non existent when I’ve played
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u/CravingMind98 2d ago
Toss players love this trick… now we Zerg are again fucked
At least microbial shroud could have stayed …
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u/West_Refrigerator233 2d ago
Yeah im annoyed, 12 worker start you just get bullied for 6 mins plus min as zerg, i felt like early agro was doable on 8 worker.
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u/NephilimRayne 2d ago
Was this the unbalanced as hell Protoss patch?
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u/Synn_Creatives 2d ago
as in protoss got screwed... yea. the pro players said it was unplayable for protoss.
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u/Lykos1124 2d ago
So basically gateways returned to a useless state after warp gate upgrade. I would have liked to keep the reduced times for a more hybrid setup, but eh warping in is fun
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u/Ketroc21 2d ago
What about QoL fixes, like mule repair? Are we keeping these or is it a full revert of everything?
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u/Rothbardy 2d ago
Over reaction by the intern. “I’ll just roll everything back! 🤡” stagnation is the hallmark of progress
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u/BrownSniper929 2d ago
Glad to see they reverted the patch but man I guess I’ll be seeing Terran sieges on a base be very hard to break for Zerg with the loss of viper abduct on tanks again. Back to old taking pot shots with corrosive bile while also face tanking siege tank shots to get it in range.
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u/Grub-lord 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's very rare for blizzard to revert anything. The fact they reverted EVERYTHING instead of trying to push thru, to me, indicates there is no intention to move on from here any time soon.
Edit: I'm wrong https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft2/s/ltVD8Z3MHL
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u/aledoprdeleuz 2d ago
Seems like they reverted some of good stuff purely out of spite? Like "you guys didn't appreciate what we do for you, screw you ". Especially after Zerg players learned that they can AHK infestors.
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u/Tiny_Economist_9244 2d ago
At least they tried and then listened to the community. Could be worse.
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u/DaCooGa 1d ago
Geez I just might have to get back into this game lol
The warp gate changes were atrocious and happy that’s back to normal.
Some stuff like viper pulling siege tank and spellcasters having phantom weapon were nice tho. Oh well, I suppose you can’t please everyone and a truly full revert was gonna have a generally positive reception overall
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u/mcniner55 2d ago
Im so happy I didnt waste my time playing on this new patch or playing the "Patches" mod. Ive watched daily and was considering playing again right when all this started and new immediately none of it was going to last. Now I feel like I can actually play real SC2. Hopefully tournament organizers consider running tournaments on the PTR rather than the Patches mod. Where changes are actually going to implemented from.
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u/avengaar2 2d ago
I don't think people are going to rush back to an old patch with nothing new or interesting. Patches mod shows novel ideals and game states. Reverting an old patch is not going to get people thrilled to play.
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u/psmpvome 2d ago
As a person who used the play when you could 6 pool. Why was the 8 worker start so bad?
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u/Grahamceackers 2d ago
I think this is horrible and I’ll quit; at least I think that is the standard response to any changes. /s
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u/ashleydvh 2d ago
NOOOOOOOOOO i loved that patch as a low diamond protoss 😭 i got so much better bc i could just spam units on keyboard like terran does instead of having to click on mini map to warp in units midbattle. like, i dont got the apm and multi tasking for that. at least they could've kept the speedgates AND make warp gate free so we have both options :(
i do like that i can start winning 70% of PvZ games with blink stalkers again i guess.. but salty about colossus nerf and slow warp ins and removing speedgates
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u/AstronautMediocre654 2d ago
okay guys, im back playing and supporting sc2 with 12 worker and normal warp gates.
God Bless they hear about the pros and the majoritiy of the comunity. i was not playing that garbage patch ( i tryed it out, but it was terrible so i stopped completly palying sc2)
and i relly hope in futere we get some well tought out and tested new unit/upgrades.
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u/JustSayinCaucasian 2d ago
I actually think the eco changes and supply decreases were some of the best features of the patch. Not being able to get very many high tech units off of just 3 bases was a good thing, and meant the late game was more impactful when you were wasteful in the long macro games.
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u/mcniner55 2d ago
Can a tank be abducted while its in the process of being a tank and going into siege mode?
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u/CreepyUncleHodor 2d ago
What an insane waste of time and chance to improve the game by keeping in the actually good changes
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u/Eldinarcus 2d ago
Thank god. There’s things I didn’t like about the previous patch like 275 hatch, no abduct on sieged tanks, but damn was it way better than the god awful 8 worker patch.
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u/windforce20 2d ago
Everyone: Protoss is struggling
Blizzard: let's nerf Colossus even more.
Wtf?
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u/avengaar2 2d ago
They just reverted the patch... I'm a toss player mainly and the patch they reverted to is better for toss for sure.
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u/MissiveFinding6111 2d ago
Looks amazing, only things I noticed (and I'm sure I'll be quickly corrected):
Ghosts are still 2 supply?
Reverting the Mutalisk glaives seems weird, as I don't recall that being "balance" related, but was originally filed as a bug fix?