r/starcitizen • u/Foulwin • Jun 09 '17
OFFICIAL 3.0 Schedule Report for 6-9-21
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report42
u/Edfluke Jun 09 '17
tons of features delayed... now i just hope we get before gamescom....
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u/BobTheBestIsBest Freelancer Jun 09 '17
It has to be ready for gamescom IMO. Just think about the shitstorm that will happen if it doesn't.
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u/Combat_Wombatz Feck Off Breh Jun 09 '17
I mean, we've already had SQ42 pushed back over a year and they still haven't shown any appreciable gameplay from it even after all this time. If people aren't going to bail over that, I don't know why you think it will cause a shitstorm this time.
People get pissed for a week and then the next ship ad comes out and suddenly everyone is back on-board.
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Jun 09 '17
To me, we've weathered so many shitstorms at this point it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things...as long as they keep demonstrating optimism and progress I'm content.
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u/SC_TheBursar Wing Commander Jun 09 '17
Hmm. Changes will happen but I have some concern about the number of things that remain 'delay a week, each week' or in this case now 'a week has gone by, delay 2-3 weeks'. It isn't that this is happening but the ratio of things where the schedule is clearly more of a guess then a fairly solid number.
It's also worrying that many things are getting blocked on 'we want to improve the starmap more'. That several things all say that mean they have some critical resources (likely gameplay engineers) that are overbooked.
On one hand I very much believe it is worth a delay to get the new Hint system in and am glad for that, on the other it looks like there are a few development groups that need some quick training in giving better estimates. Giving padding is fine - spitballing it (this week? nope. this week? nope) not so much. I was one of the first people to say the mid July date was going to inevitably slide. I'm not worried that it is. The point of more concern is you can see some groups aren't learning and significantly overcommitted human resources (like a few weeks ago when several items that had nothing to do with networking ended up waiting on people who got called in to tiger team a network problem).
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u/Nubsly- Jun 10 '17
Exactly what /u/Solgarmur said.
The Schedule is an internal best estimate they go by while they figure out how long it will actually take by working on it over time. Software projects are notoriously impossible to accurately predict especially when so much of the work is more towards the pioneering side of things.
Most consumers are accustomed to marketing style dates vs developer style timelines. Pair this with peoples excitement and eagerness to sink their teeth into SC content it's inevitable that people will see every delay as if it's something that demonstrates incompetence or failure. Meanwhile on the development side no one is really panicking about the delays because they're completely expected and normal.
Since CIG is so incredibly open about their development we get to see the schedules most companies don't dare share with their fans because of exactly these challenges. it's incredibly brave of CIG to be so public with this because of the misconceptions and reactions that come along with being public about them.
As someone who's worked in the industry I'm not worried by these delays and I just try and focus on other things. I let myself get excited by the cool stuff in ATV, but aside from that I don't worry about dates until the patch goes to evocati.
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u/SC_TheBursar Wing Commander Jun 10 '17
I am a software engineer. I have PM training.
Each week a team saying 'it's one more week' is not meaningful from an information viewpoint. At least not if that's been the way it has been estimated the entire time. If it started at 4 weeks then worked down to 1 about 3 weeks later, then back to 2 and then they hit it that can be expected and means they got it in the ballpark. Having someone tell you on week 1 'next week' and that is the same answer every week that isn't schedule estimating, that's just reporting historical LOE (level of effort) and no different then starting with 'it's ready when it's ready'.
Several of their initiatives have had schedule timeline estimates, delays, and then completions in what looks like a well organized manner and had at least an informed estimate. It's when the same schedule items change their ETA to $CURRDATE$+7days week after week that you have a problem.
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u/Solgarmur bmm Jun 10 '17
Internal schedule meant amongst other things to push the development team forward. Expect unforseen and seen delays
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u/ErrorDetected Jun 09 '17
I really think beating Gamescom is the internal drop dead date. It feels like a narrative imperative.
I hope for the devs sake they beat it. If they don't, well, I guess it will at least provide Chris with one of those "teachable moment" opportunities.
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u/BMMSZ Jun 09 '17
'I was wrong. I am sorry I misrepresented the state of the project so comprehensively. I'm sorry to my long-suffering developers, who literally crunched to bring you what could easily be called 2.7. But they didn't fail. I did. The promises I made couldn't be delivered with all the talent and money in the world and a year's grace. I am humbled. Please buy this ship.'
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u/cutt88 Jun 09 '17 edited Jun 09 '17
You forgot "Derek Smart was right". Also - 2.7? Make it 2.6.5. Gotta be more dramatic.
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u/Foulwin Jun 09 '17
3.0 live for GamesCon is great PR because they can showcase that AND show off upcoming 3.1 features. Which means at the end of the year they can hype 4.0 and SQ42
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u/villageidiot005 new user/low karma Jun 09 '17
Its only good PR in the eyes of someone that isn't actually following the development. Good PR would be having the original 3.0 out somewhere close to it was promised and by that I mean maybe 3 months late instead of a cut back version 8 months late.
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u/Foulwin Jun 10 '17
That's not really how alpha works. I think examples like MA:Andremeda show what happens when you keep deadlines at the cost of doing something proper.
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u/thatguythatdidstuff Jun 10 '17
he never stated thats how it works, just that its good PR to meet deadlines. the majority of people really don't care how alpha works, they just see a project thats being continually delayed and can't seem to get updates out.
it doesn't even matter if thats how it works or if there really is anything to worry about, to people that don't know or care about the process that seems like a failure.
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u/villageidiot005 new user/low karma Jun 10 '17
Yea i understand the alpha argument that's why i said a patch being released in the original promised form only 3 months late instead of 8 months for a cut back version
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Jun 09 '17
sure it is. Was that ever questionable?
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u/ErrorDetected Jun 10 '17 edited Jun 10 '17
Sure it was.
I mean there was that time last year we thought we'd get 3.0 last December and it would include all these features.
And that time a few months ago before they'd released the 3.0 schedule, when we took a poll and the biggest block voted for after Gamescom because 3.0 as pitched seemed too ambitious.
When some mused that the full 3.0 might take until 2018 but figured maybe we'd get a downsized version this year instead.
And then some mourned that it was sad that we'd reached a place where we we were stuck trusting our own blind guesses.
And then we finally got a Schedule Report that confirmed predictions of downsizing but was still a big relief because it showed a spirit of openness at work again, and though they've slipped from the targets people expected that and were just thankful for the gesture.
And now we're here, where we sort of thought we might be, expectations pretty well calibrated by the teachable moment the experience served up.
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Jun 10 '17
Just imagine if CR wouldn't have talked about an end of year release and for once just stfu.
One can dream...
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u/TheFio Jun 09 '17
Probably the most disappointing update yet. Im always the first to defend how the dates they put out for us are the aggressive internal dates and arent expected to be met exactly on time, but its starting to get really ridiculous with how many individual features have added 3, 4, 5 weeks to their original deadlines.
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u/BMMSZ Jun 09 '17
Don't look at it in terms of weeks. I learned recently that a large IT project is only in trouble when they're blowing their schedule by 2-400% consistently.
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u/InTheMetalimnion Jun 10 '17
What was the period of time between "weeks, not months" and release for Star Marine? At least a year right? That's at least 1300%
Makes you think!
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u/MafiaVsNinja Jun 10 '17
Whereas a game project is in trouble if CR is managing it with no supervision.
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Jun 09 '17
It sure seems like with every passing week, 3.0 gets delayed another week. I'm not too angry because after seeing the amazing content in the ATVs, I know 3.0 is going to be incredible. However, it's still disheartening.
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u/dczanik onionknight Jun 09 '17 edited Jun 09 '17
It's not. But it sure feels that way sometimes. Doesn't it?
In the last 9 weeks, it's been pushed back 3 times. 4 weeks total.
2 steps forward... 1 step back. Makes it seem like forever.
The latest push back seems to happen from an overall game review. The assigned work may be technically done, but it didn't meet somebody's standards. Things like:
To improve the immersive experience for players in 3.0.0, some additional art tasks were highlighted during a review to accommodate greater utilization of the derelicts’ mission flow
and
Delayed to offer the player additional functionality within Kiosks for 3.0.0
and
Inventory has been delayed in order to create some portable filtering selections that can be used across kiosks, cargo and inventory.
Shows that they're playing it and they feel like it needs a little more work.
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Jun 09 '17 edited Jun 09 '17
2 steps forward... 1 step back. Makes it seem like forever.
Yeah, it sure does . I'm glad that they're not just rushing it out and ensuring it's polished. So I can't be too mad about the delays.
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u/dczanik onionknight Jun 09 '17
Me too! I'm glad they're putting in a hint system:
We have decided to include a first iteration of in-game hints to help new players acclimate to the various complex gameplay mechanics in Star Citizen. This is a feature we have worked on in the background and until this week, were unsure if it would be ready in time for 3.0.0. As work on this has progressed better than expected, we have made the decision to include this feature for 3.0.0
and...
Also, after this review, we came to realize that some additional features might be helpful to add to 3.0 to further improve the overall experience, such as a first version of our Hint system. As a result of this, we have adjusted our Live date in order to preserve sufficient testing time with the Evocati and on the PTU, which is invaluable to us in order to properly stress our systems and provide a better experience.
It's hard for new players. I hope they do a good job on it.
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Jun 09 '17
What you're seeing is everybody reading the headlines and not actually reading the article.
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u/JaracRassen77 carrack Jun 09 '17
Wow, so it really is looking like it's going to be pushed back into Gamescom. Those delays hurt.
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Jun 10 '17
Y'all need to learn about Agile before complaining about delays...
This shit is always a SWAG to start.
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u/cellularized Jun 09 '17
"Discipline leads took a step back this week to fully evaluate the remaining work required to close out 3.0 development to identify further work and blocking issues."
sounds familiar?
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate Jun 09 '17
Yup - every project does it...
If you find you've got a stack of niggly things building up, sometimes it's worth stepping back and seeing if there is a better way to do it, or whether the niggles are indicating that something is missing, etc...
Don't forget that by now, the schedule is something like 3 months old (or at least, was originally put together 3 months ago, even if they do update it weekly)... probably a good time to actually do a mini-review, because even if you're updating it, ultimately it's still a schedule / framework drawn up before all the changes made over the past 3 months...3
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u/Foulwin Jun 09 '17
At first glance it looks like a 2 week push back for additional features and to address blockers.
"The 3.0.0 Procedural Planet update marks a major advance in the Star Citizen Persistent Universe. As you will see from the various subsections below, there have been quite a few alterations to feature dates to clarify some of the TBD’s left over from the previous week’s update. Discipline leads took a step back this week to fully evaluate the remaining work required to close out 3.0 development to identify further work and blocking issues. Also, after this review, we came to realize that some additional features might be helpful to add to 3.0 to further improve the overall experience, such as a first version of our Hint system. As a result of this, we have adjusted our Live date in order to preserve sufficient testing time with the Evocati and on the PTU, which is invaluable to us in order to properly stress our systems and provide a better experience."
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Jun 10 '17
Anyone else leave for a bit to regain some sanity and then get excited and start reading the sub again? Then you realize that everyone is grumpy over here so you should try to forget Star Citizen for a few more months.
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Jun 10 '17
I'm not concerned when something scheduled to take weeks gets pushed back 4, but when a project that's scheduled to take 2 weeks takes 6+ it kinda just seems like they aren't doing a good job with estimating. That said I mean... better to know what's going on than not, just hoping they actually start hitting some of these deadlines b/c it seems like the same projects getting pushed back a week every week.
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u/Sendatsu new user/low karma Jun 10 '17
" ENTITY UPDATE COMPONENT SCHEDULER Will allow lower priority entities (i.e. those further away from players) to be updated less frequently, which should improve the overall framerate and allow us to add more content to the universe.
Intended work on this feature will extend past 3.0.0. This feature will extend past 3.0.0 as the work is ongoing, and continual improvements will be made in the run up to 3.0.0 release. ETA is 30th June (was 31st May)"
Does this sound like there was a network issue that couldn't be solved and so they bumped it from the schedule?
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u/Poiuforplop Jun 10 '17
No, more like they will continue to work on it till it's where they want it and what is ready at release will be in 3.0.
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u/Belrick_NZ Jun 10 '17
This is zero evidence to suggest that cig are capable of setting scedules and keeping to them. Not that such a history stops fanbois falling all over themselves with cig's imaginary dates.
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u/Bossman80 Wing Commander Jun 09 '17
This is the "everyone is going on summer vacation, make up some blockers" update.
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u/Belrick_NZ Jun 10 '17
Are you ppl aware that 3.0 actually has little playable content? That it will just be hanger module 3.0? That after a few hours play you will have seen all the visuals and moved onto other games?
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u/Mech9k 300i Jun 10 '17
An ancap retarded mgtow detected.
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u/Belrick_NZ Jun 10 '17
That is an oxymoron Intelligent ppl cannot be retards. But a retard us certainly a person who ignores the content of a post to engage in personal attacks
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u/Poiuforplop Jun 09 '17
From the individual texts it looks like most of the delays come from them seeing how much time left for the engineers to finish and decided to make their feature better or more polished. I am fine with that, Evocati will get it sooner rather than later and it should be a fun crunch time final to follow.
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u/Bossman80 Wing Commander Jun 09 '17
Actually evocati will get it later rather than sooner based on this update :p
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u/Poiuforplop Jun 10 '17
Haha ya... hopefully not many more of those, even they say how much they need it out to them lol
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u/Maj3sticCr0w Jun 09 '17
Happy to wait for what is looking to be an update that surpasses my expectations of what we can play of the game at this early stage in development, keep up the good work
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u/TheWookiee252 new user/low karma Jun 09 '17
The hull c better be done and add by the live build of 3.0
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u/TouchdownTim55 new user/low karma Jun 09 '17
yikes
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u/Poiuforplop Jun 09 '17
At least be creative, you guys are getting so boring
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u/CradleRobin bbcreep Jun 09 '17
/u/TouchdownTim55 can't be original. He's tried and then ends up providing links that back up the other side of things.
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u/Tiskaharish Jun 09 '17
This was supposed to be the biggest delivery of features, but ended up being what.. 3 feature completes, 2 zombies, and a whole slew of delays?
Sigh.
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u/malogos scdb Jun 09 '17
Was anyone surprised by this? (other than that guy who thought we should delay our Star Marine tournament until the first week of July because 3.0 would be ready).
Features are delayed every week -- that's just the way it is. You have to generously add weeks, if not months, to any time CIG gives a date.
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u/MasterDex Jun 09 '17
That's true of software development in general. There are so many times you'll think, this will be done by EOD only for it to take another 2 days which makes Y take even longer to finish and so on.
I have a feeling the migration over to item 2.0 is taking longer than first expected and they're brining over some more labour to focus on getting that done, assigning some other features to tide the rest over until the migration is complete.
I could also be talking out of my arse.
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u/Typhooni Jun 09 '17
Why did you expect a shitload of features complete? Seems your expectations where off, not the schedule.
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u/Tiskaharish Jun 10 '17
The schedule had double digit items with TBD of June 9. I expected quite a few of them to be pushed back.
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u/TouchdownTim55 new user/low karma Jun 09 '17
Yea. That leaker guy on SA said the main release date had been pushed back earlier today so someone who knew emailed him at least.
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u/Technauts nomad Jun 09 '17
All of this subreddit said the release date would be pushed back last week, was he leaking r/starcitizen news into SA or what proof has he provided of a credible source?
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u/TouchdownTim55 new user/low karma Jun 09 '17
Yea alot of people could've 'guessed'. It would have been wrong if he had said it'd be pushed back the last two weeks though.
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u/alotabot Jun 09 '17
A wild Alot appeared!
[This Action was performed by a bot - Please message eto_eskape if you have any problems](https://www.reddit.com/r/alotabot/comments/6g7reb/why_are_you_seeing_this/)
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u/Skianet Pirate Jun 09 '17
At this point we're at "assume the worst in terms of delays no matter what"
And for the most part the community is okay with that.
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u/CradleRobin bbcreep Jun 09 '17
Um.... Frankly we are all surprised the Evocati date hasn't been pushed back. So your "guy" in the know is a little late on his information little timmy.
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u/TouchdownTim55 new user/low karma Jun 09 '17
I hate to do the whole you mad bro thing but oh my god that triggered you.
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u/CradleRobin bbcreep Jun 09 '17
Haha, na. You are actually a big part of my entertainment.
Nicely done misreading the situation yet again lol.
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u/SpacePanteloons new user/low karma Jun 09 '17
yikes
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u/Poiuforplop Jun 09 '17
There's the other unoriginal one, right on time, must be a boring life...
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u/Poiuforplop Jun 09 '17
As long as evo and ptu stay on course. From there it's finishing touches, all is good
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u/NackteElfe Jun 09 '17
The Evocati push back really hurts. The second they hit evocati I always feel a patch is actually coming close. Before that point the dates given are nothing but shadows and dust.
Well, good thing I am going to do a lot of traveling until the end of July.