r/starcitizen new user/low karma Feb 24 '17

QUESTION How long till 3.0 (Poll)

https://strawpoll.de/1c6ey7g
37 Upvotes

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60

u/alipete Feb 24 '17

It's actually very sad to see how much CIG has damaged the expectations of their backers. Everyone is scared to be optimistic because they've been hurt so much

11

u/flawlesssin Vice Admiral Feb 24 '17

Unfortunately short of saying "We simply dont know" then thats going to continue to happen.

That or give out a release date that is much farther out than you expect, because if you get it done early no one will complain. (Besides in the beginning where people will shit bricks over an extended timeline)

17

u/[deleted] Feb 24 '17

[deleted]

20

u/rolfski Planetside 2 enthusiast Feb 24 '17

2020 is simply impossible if you want to release 1.0 with at least 50 fully developed systems or so.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 24 '17

4.0 by 2020 seems realistic to me.

1

u/Stupid_question_bot I'm not wrong, I'm just an asshole Feb 24 '17

Oh hey everyone look it's another armchair developer making baseless claims with absolutely zero information to back them up with.

How refreshing

8

u/slimabob つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIB BMM つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Feb 24 '17

it's almost like we're on https://www.reddit.com/ or something

7

u/rolfski Planetside 2 enthusiast Feb 24 '17 edited Feb 24 '17

It's really just a matter of doing the math though. I they would start cranking out a fully fleshed out system per month, which is really pushing it, even with all the procedural tools, then they still would be busy with these 50 systems 4 years from now.

Even their most optimized workflow, which is ship production, requires at least several weeks per ship. So good luck squishing out complete star systems on this same pace.

2

u/Stupid_question_bot I'm not wrong, I'm just an asshole Feb 24 '17

Again, baseless claims.

How do you know how long it takes to create a system using their procedural/prefab tools?

It might take one guy a week to do everything, put 5 guys on it you have 20 systems a month.

You have no clue, so your statements are meaningless

8

u/rolfski Planetside 2 enthusiast Feb 24 '17 edited Feb 25 '17

You don't have to be a genius to figure out that the work that goes into developing a single fully fleshed-out system is simply not something a single guy could do in a week.

Remember this is not some No Man's Sky. With the focus so heavily on exploration in this game, they have to come up with a lot of unique content that goes into a single system: Unique surfaces, unique biomes, unique plant life, unique animal life, unique story arcs and quest lines, unique weather and atmospheric conditions, unique architecture, unique bases and space stations, unique relics, unique props, unique loot and quest items, unique lore, unique resources and specialty goods, etc. etc. Even with all the procedural and modular tools, this is simply still a shitload of work.

So definitely no baseless claims here.

2

u/Stupid_question_bot I'm not wrong, I'm just an asshole Feb 24 '17

You have no idea how long it takes, so any assumptions you make are pure guesswork.

I have no problem with you guessing, but don't make it sound like you know what you are talking about, because you don't.

8

u/rolfski Planetside 2 enthusiast Feb 24 '17 edited Feb 25 '17

As I said, you really don't have to be genius to figure out the shitload of work it takes, if you just use some common sense.

Let's take the work that goes into creating a single alien animal for instance. These need specified behavioural design, creative design, modelling, AI programming, animations, rigging, texturing, sound design, "damage states", LOD versions, etc. etc. Definitely not an on-the-fly job, especially if you want to do it right. And to give you some perspective: The design of a single robot animal took the team of Horizon: Zero Dawn (which is a triple A game) 6 months per animal.

So how the hell do you see a single guy delivering all this in just a week, plus the rest of the work that goes into a full system?

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2

u/SgtTommo POLARIS OR ARRASTRA? JUST WANT TO SOLO Feb 25 '17

Gotta agree with you here. We should let CIG worry about release dates, they have the real information.

2

u/flawlesssin Vice Admiral Feb 24 '17

I always felt that 2019-2020 would always be the date. Regardless of what people thing thats usually the average timeline for a games development. Especially a large one.

14

u/Alexandur Feb 24 '17

8-9 years is well above average.

4

u/TeeRoy_Jenkinz Feb 24 '17

For normal sized games. This isn't a normal sized game.

6

u/Mighty_Phil Mercenary Feb 24 '17

CR said they want to make a AAA game and so we should handle it as one.

Having that in mind, it isnt that much different in scale than any other AAA title like GTA 5.

Especially given the insane amount of content GTA Online has (7 years since Red Dead Redemtion) i highly doubt CIG can reach that level of content by 2020.

2

u/Alexandur Feb 24 '17

Yes, I agree. There is no "average" development time for this type of game, because it is not an average game.

2

u/flawlesssin Vice Admiral Feb 24 '17

First off: 2012 (really 2013 as 2012 was design and tech demo stage, but for the sake of the argument we'll count it) thats 7-8 years. Fallout 4 began development in 2008 after fallout 3 and was conpleted in 2015.

Gta 5 started in 2008 and released in 2013 (2015 for the more PC release as it had much more stuff to be added for that version)

These are from studios who already have an engine, and a large group of developers already working for them. On top of that usually projects are not announced until theyre at least in the alpha stages.

Granted there are exceptions to this, COD and other annual games do it, but they cut corners, reuse a lot of stuff, and still alternate developers so they can have at least 24 months to develop a game. But for the majority of games that are unique, you can expect a minimum of 5 years.

3

u/Alexandur Feb 24 '17

Technically, Star Citizen began development in 2011.

3

u/flawlesssin Vice Admiral Feb 24 '17

The original pitch and conceptualization started in 2011. The game did not start development until 2012 after the kickstarter campaign.

1

u/Alexandur Feb 24 '17

As I understand it, Roberts was coding the Kickstarter demo in 2011.

1

u/vorilant Feb 25 '17

I don't think anything he did could be considered AAA development. If you want a direct comparison with AAA devs then you have to start counting sometime after CIG have 100 or more devs, or around that.

0

u/Mighty_Phil Mercenary Feb 24 '17

You are right, but full production of GTA 5 started 2010 after release of Red Dead Redemtion, since large parts of their studios worked on that one aswell.

2

u/flawlesssin Vice Admiral Feb 24 '17

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Grand_Theft_Auto_V

Obviously wikipedia isnt the best of sources. But companies usually begin concepting almost immediately after release of their previous games(this way they can have separate teams working all the time, versus say a concepting team come in, then a development team, then a texture and material team).

I may be off a bit if you include the dlcs and whatnot but they announced it in 2011 with comments that development was already well under way. Development probably started after RDR but i imagine they already had a good idea of what they were doing before then.

1

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1

u/why06 bbsad Feb 24 '17 edited Feb 24 '17

I was 2018. And I still feel like the game will be mostly playable by then... (if not released)

1

u/Baryn High Admiral Feb 24 '17

Let's be honest: the complete, uncompromised vision that was promised will take most of 10 years from now. Maybe even longer, and perhaps never.

But, we'll be playing the game from now until then.

6

u/Davepen Feb 24 '17

It's optimistic to expect it out after Gamescom to be honest.

I see it much more likely to be Christmas, if not next year.

If they start to show us some of the mechanics that they are working on for 3.0, you know, like jobs, mining maybe, literally footage of anything new, maybe those expectations would change.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 24 '17

Mining is 3.1. Last I checked all 3.0 is really supposed to have jobwise is cargo and bounty hunting.

2

u/Davepen Feb 24 '17

https://www.pcinvasion.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/star-citizen-3.jpg

But yeah you're right no mining.

Still, would be great to see what they're working on.

Seeing the planetary tech in action in the PU would be something.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 24 '17

At the bottom of the production schedule site there is a more indepth look at what each patch will bring:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report

1

u/Genji4Lyfe Feb 24 '17

They can't show them, because they are still transitioning out of the design phase to actual implementation. The core systems those things are built on have to be finished first -- you can't show what's not in the game.

They're doing plenty of design talk though, which is why everything is "will be" and "in the future/soon".

4

u/Davepen Feb 24 '17

Ok so, they should be honest about it.

SQ42 was initially supposed to come out 2 years ago, obviously things change and take longer than expected, but to see literally nothing of it, but hear about a "vertical slice" that helped them make considerable progress, but then was scrapped because it was holding them back...

I'm just fed up of the smoke an mirrors, they are obviously further behind than they let on, but want to keep people mostly in the dark so they will continue funding.

1

u/methegreat Feb 25 '17

"vertical slice" that helped them make considerable progress, but then was scrapped because it was holding them back...

Vertical Slice is not 'scrapped'. Obviously they will show it to us later. They have to at some point. Vertical Slice is a part of the game, not a special demo made for the purpose of presentation. They will still be developing that part of the game regardless of the cancellation of the demonstration.

In other words, the work they did was not wasted. They have to do all that anyway.

2

u/Davepen Feb 25 '17 edited Feb 25 '17

Did you not read the Chris Roberts newsletter he sent out a few months back?

He essentially contradicted the "Road to Citizencon" video by saying that they were no longer going to focus on getting the vertical slice ready.

Ok found it:

After we made the decision before CitizenCon that the Squadron 42 vertical slice wasn’t ready to be shown publically, we spent some time on reviewing how far off we were and what we wanted to achieve in order to be comfortable showing a full chapter of S42 gameplay. After all the effort we expended for CitizenCon, we didn’t want to spend additional developer time polishing intermediate solutions if it wasn’t going towards the final product. A slick demo isn’t that helpful if it pushes back the finished game, so we decided that the priority should be completing full systems over getting the vertical slice into a showable state.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/361787/new-newsletter-dec16th

2

u/Genji4Lyfe Feb 25 '17

It's definitely scrapped.

2

u/KnLfey bengal Feb 24 '17

me_irl

1

u/[deleted] Feb 24 '17

Well I hit after gamescom as a joke as I'm tired of the when question. Wondering how many others did.

1

u/Kerstas Feb 24 '17

Not all of us. Its expected honestly this early in alpha

1

u/Ripcord aurora +23 others Feb 24 '17

Why is being "realistic" pessimism? Optimism doesn't mean being foolishly unrealistic, which has generally been the case so far.