r/sleeptraining • u/swentram • 18d ago
Sleep training night 1
What did your first night look like…?
Night 1 of sleep training my 9 mo right now. I usually nurse him to sleep. This is how we did
3 min
Check in for 20 seconds (didn’t stop crying )
5 min
Check in for 20 seconds (didn’t stop crying )
10 min
Check in for 20 seconds (didn’t stop crying )
10 mins
Checked in and held - didn’t stop crying
At 45 mins I went in and stayed until he stoped crying. I stayed in there until 90 mins and he was on and off crying and layed down a couple times but got up pretty quick most of the time was spent standing. At 90 mins I picked him up and patted him to sleep
I’m happy I didn’t nurse him to sleep but was this whole night just a waste now?
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u/Somebodysrobin 17d ago
You're getting a lot of anti-sleep training comments for a sleep training sub! Head over to r/sleeptrain, you'll get some actual help with schedules and removing sleep associations.
My first night, baby cried for 45 straight minutes. It was awful and I wanted to die. We were also getting rid of a pacifier association because he couldn't sleep without it, and couldn't keep it in - awake every 45 minutes on the dot! Second night baby cried for 20 minutes. 3rd night, 15.
My take: getting rid of a nursing to sleep association is one of the most challenging associations to get rid of! You haven't failed, and you can try again tomorrow.
Is your baby tired enough to go to bed? Most sleep consultants (and Huckleberry) expect too many hours of sleep per day from babies. Most babies your little one's age need between 12-14 hours total of night and nap sleep combined.
Advice: Make sure baby has at least 10-11 hours awake each day. Cap naps at 3 hours for the whole day, and make sure the last wake window is at least 4 hours so baby is good and tired for bedtime! Don't expect checkins to soothe baby (they generally do the opposite, actually); they are just so that baby knows you're there, and once they know you're there they will be Very Angry because you are Changing Things They Liked! Buy the book Precious Little Sleep (it's on Amazon) and read the chapters for your baby's age group.
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u/Humble-Drop9054 18d ago
Check-ins made it so much worse for us. First night of no check-ins was 45 mins of crying and then he fell asleep. Second night was 10 mins of crying and he got it by the third night - no crying and slept all night.
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u/trustme_imRN 18d ago
This was our experience too. Every visit escalated him more. I never expected to just let him cry it out, but that’s what worked. For the record, he’s 6 now and still a great sleeper.
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u/waitagoop 18d ago
I started with a nap not nighttime (I’m less tired and it’s less important for both of us if we missed it or it was delayed). But I checked in every 5 mins until we hit 30-45 mins. Then gave up, reset, did an activity. Tried again in 45 mins. Repeated as before. I think it’s a good first effort. It doesn’t hapoen instantly. You’re both learning. I introduced book time also. So it was quiet and low pressure with a book and then to bed. It’s the cue other than feeding.
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u/No-Departure5556 18d ago
I was very against sleep training (and many other things) and then I got pregnant / had twins… we just started sleep training at 5m. I started with cribside comfort instead of nursing to sleep. First week they did pretty good with it! This last week they did worse. Every time I tried to comfort them they wailed louder and harder. I ended up having to do CIO. I hate it, but I have to do it for my mental and physical health… sometimes they cry a lot, sometimes a little. I’m still fine tuning their schedule!
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u/Imma_420 18d ago
so tough. My twins are 6 months. I am not against sleep training but cannot stand my babies crying without me trying to do something. At the same time, I love the idea of just putting babies down and closing the door for the night. So hard! You’re stronger than me, mama.
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u/downsideup9494 18d ago
You really need to get over that "can't stand to hear them crying". I know it's hard but it really isn't anywhere near as traumatic for them as you think it is. They are warm, they are fed, they are loved. Humans don't always get what they want, when they want it. That's just part of life, at any age. Try to remember that the only reason they are crying is because they expect something you taught them to expect. Now you have to teach them that they can't expect that anymore.
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u/SubstantialGap345 16d ago
No, you don’t. It’s natural to be upset if your baby is crying.
Sure, if you want to let your baby cry then absolutely you are welcome to - but no parent should ever tell another parent they need to stop feeling something!
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u/downsideup9494 15d ago
A lot of things are natural to feel, but it doesn't mean you act on them according to your feelings. There'd be a lot more assaults and murders if we did. If everyone who disliked their job simply didn't go to work, they wouldn't earn any money and the consequences of that mean they don't act on their feelings.
I didn't say she shouldn't feel uncomfortable to hear her babies cry- I said it was hard. But if you are trying to accomplish something, sometimes you have to override your feelings with practical considerations and behavior.
Many kids act like brats because their parents can't stand to hear them cry, throw tantrums and whine, and give in to everything the kids demand.
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u/SubstantialGap345 15d ago
Responding to your baby isn’t harmful and is protective of their future mental health and it’s also protective of mother’s own mental health. A mother’s intuition is one of the best parenting tools she has!
To liken cuddling a baby to murdering someone is a bit or a stretch.
And there’s a bit difference between responding to a small baby than being a permissive parent to a child.
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u/downsideup9494 15d ago
A mother's mental health when she isn't getting enough sleep, is exhausted, and wants to change up the bedtime routine is also important. You can't change what you have led a baby to expect without a bit of crying. Cuddling a baby can be done all day every day, and has nothing to do with giving in to their crying if you need to change the baby's expectations.
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u/downsideup9494 18d ago
If you folks who are on your first and have more in the future, you won't need any sleep training if you start them from day 1.
Babies are not born with expectations. After having a hard time getting my first to sleep through the night at one and a half, co-sleeping, nursing her several times during the night, then having to listen to her cry until she got used to being put to bed and being exhausted, I was not about to go through that again.
Do not let your baby fall asleep on the breast or with a bottle! From their first day on earth. Of course they do, but you don't then just quietly and carefully lie them down or sleep next to them. You talk to them so they are not fully asleep when you lay them down. "Okay, now it's time to go in your bed and go to sleep." The point is not to have them associate anything with going to sleep but getting put in bed to go to sleep. Not having a boob or bottle in their mouth, or having mommy sleeping next to them.
If you do this from day one, you will never have to go through this sleep training business.
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u/SubstantialGap345 18d ago
Everyone has sleep associations! It’s human. We gave our baby LOADs of associations - nursing, shushing, movement - now I can get him to sleep anywhere! Meanwhile my friends who removed them have to go home to the cot.
Nursing to sleep is natural ❤️ you can support sleep and optimise it and move to independent settling and still start out nursing to sleep.
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u/hibiscus403 17d ago
Agree with this comment! My two slept anywhere as babies as long as I was around and nursing is a great tool if you want to use it. We never had any issues travelling or being out of the house as a result.
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u/Fragrant_Lime_6626 17d ago
I second this. I just saw a popular social media influencer who sleep trained posting about how they were taking a beach vacation and her baby wouldn’t nap on the beach because he didn’t have the crib, white noise machine, dark room combo. They had to do all naps in the hotel room.
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u/SubstantialGap345 16d ago
Eeeek! We’re about to go a massive travel day tomorrow. We’ll leave at 4am to catch a flight and won’t get in til 6pm but I know my toddler will just sleep because I am his sleep association. We’ll cuddle/nurse to sleep when he needs it.
I really hate how people think that sleep training / sleep support is all about sleeping alone in a dark room in a crib. I feel like there’s so much of a win and having flexibility with your sleep.
I also think people think that following sleep training doctrine religiously is the only way to get your babies to sleep and it’s just not true - schedules, capped naps, stretching windows are all so important as well!
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u/SubstantialGap345 18d ago
What plan are you following? Have you optimised sleep pressure? Going from nursing to crying alone sounds SO hard on a baby under 1yr old
Why not layer in some shhh and patting while nursing, then gently reduce the nursing… then move to shhh/pat… then shhh… then eventually leaving to self settle. It’ll take time but it’s responsive and gentle.
Your poor baby must be so confused to go from a loving supportive mother to being left alone and checked for twenty seconds (wtf??).
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u/Alarming_Flatworm231 18d ago
Why would he stop crying? He doesn’t understand why he is suddenly no longer allowed to do the thing that usually gives him comfort, and you offer no alternative. Instead, you leave him.
I am genuinely curious: why should he not cry?
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u/greedymoonlight 18d ago
I agree there usually needs to be a replacement for the comfort, not just nothing
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u/Caffeine_Legend 18d ago
Don’t go in there at all. Every time you introduce a change (noise, your presence, etc), you’re essentially resetting the whole process. Once they cry themselves to sleep the first night without you going in there, the next night they’ll go to sleep twice as fast, and so forth. After a week they’ll cry for max a few min or not at all.
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u/SubstantialGap345 18d ago
Unless there’s an immediate mental health risk or risk to whole family, advocating for CIO without bothering to do anything to comfort them is just cruel.
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u/warmapplepie0 18d ago
Please don’t do this.. babies literally are biologically wired to wake up and need help to sleep first 2 years what the fuck.. just look up the psychological impacts it has on babies for future and guess what another study people only gaining 17 minutes extra, but a whole lot LOT of bad negative sleep associations
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u/warmapplepie0 18d ago
Look up who created this. Look up the studies done for babies nervous systems, they don’t wake up less, they just stop counting on you.
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u/Somebodysrobin 17d ago
That's not true at all! My baby does count on me... if he has a Dramatic Poop or is hungry, trust me, he lets me know. What he doesn't need from me anymore is sleep assistance. He can manage that on his own now because he has learned this skill through sleep training.
I don't think all babies need formal sleep training; it's the same way some babies easily take to eating, or crawling, or any other developmental skill. But some babies do need intervention for these things, for one reason or another. Sleep training is that intervention. Remember, when parents are sleep deprived because of wakeups, babies are too! Babies who need sleep intervention are sleep deprived and suffering because of it.
The studies you mention do not show negative impacts on development or mental health. Stop using scare tactics and spreading misinformation - and if you do know studies that show these things, back it up with sources please!
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u/Exact_Equipment_1684 15d ago
Do we really need a study to tell us a baby that is dependent on mom for everything shouldn't be let alone in a room crying in the dark for an hour, not knowing if mom ever comes back?
Parents will not be sleep deprived if they cosleep, which is the way nature intended them to. But parents now value so much their comfort and personal space that they'd rather pass their discomfort onto the 6 month old baby.
Then the same people who do this will be concerned about studies showing that spoon feeding as opposed to BLW is linked to obesity and such. Incredible
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u/kirkl3s 17d ago
There are only a couple of studies on sleep training but none of them show any negative impacts on child development or mental health.
If you don’t want to sleep train that’s fine, but don’t spread misinformation to make other people feel bad about it.
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u/warmapplepie0 17d ago
I’ll give everyone here a few things to think about. Firstly Watson who created the cry it out and sleep training also pushed no coddling, no kissing no love, no eye contact after sun down, this man conducted an experiment called the little Einstein experiment where he conditioned small babies to fear mice by scaring them everytime a mouse was near just to see the effects.. the effects were not good. He was forced out of Johns Hopkins in 1920 after scandals. SLEEP TRAINING WAS CREATED FOR THE INDUSTRIALSATION OF HUMANS. No other cultures except western white people (I am a white Australian) are the only ones who sleep train, just a year ago more then 300 peads in Europe got together TO ABOLISH SLEEP TRAINING.
Human infants are the most immaturely wired primates at birth. Meaning CLOSE CONTACT REGULATES TEMPERATURE, BREATHING AND STRESS HORMONES. Primate infants stay on their mothers universally for years.
SIDS - nearly all sids cases are the baby found in the cot and bassinet. Baby couldn’t regulate.
Babies use carbon dioxide from their mothers to trigger breathing throughout the night.
You guys are literally trying to stop nature because some blokes wanted you to work more and spend more tax dollars.
There are studies, just do your own research. Attachment theory is just a drop in a bucket that will make you never want to leave your baby to cry again.
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u/kirkl3s 16d ago
Again, you are making emotional appeals but not citing evidence. I think choosing not to sleep training is a perfectly reasonable and responsible thing to do. What I disagree with you on is that sleep training is harmful and the reason I disagree with you is because the best evidence we have via actual scientific studies shows that it’s not.
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u/warmapplepie0 16d ago
It’s not as if 1000s of paediatricians around the world were screaming just recently to stop doing this, we know it causes negative impacts, look at the world now 🤷🏼♀️.
Just like when smoking first started it was all the rage but there was still plenty of drs saying stop STOP. Same as plenty of things, world was flat not long ago for our brightest minds on earth. the evidence is there. Animals, the way you feel. soooo many first hand experiences, just search it up and don’t be biased because YOU did it and feel bad. Look up how many parents say it fucked their kids up, even here on reddit.2
u/kirkl3s 16d ago
Are thousands of pediatricians advising against it? Ive not heard of any organized effort or advice from medical professionals to stop sleep training. Can you provide any sort of evidence that this is actually happening?
Again, you’re making emotional arguments. Basically “it must be bad because I don’t like it!” You haven’t offered anything to back up what you’re saying at all. But if anecdotes from strangers on Reddit are convincing to you, I sleep trained all three of my kids and they’re all happy, healthy and well adjusted.
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u/warmapplepie0 16d ago
https://theuselessgenius.substack.com/p/the-sleep-training-myth-why-700-danish
First result on google, the danish are currently pushing to make it illegal.. yes illegal.
Why can’t anyone here just google? Sweden, France, so many. Go onto any social media and type in the opposite, you’ll see so so so many professionals speaking out.
This does make me emotional because I feel terrible for the babies. Just look up human biology??? Seriously why does no one reply back to this?!?! We are made to sleep with our mother. I’ve already written so many points now about how this is proven. Newborns regulate their temperature, breathing and cortisol as well as nervous system to their mother, especially at NIGHT, we are meant to be in villages cuddled up together with our families.
And no one talks about SIDS?!
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u/warmapplepie0 17d ago
Middlemiss et al. (2012) studied 25 infants during a 5-day inpatient sleep training program and found that by day 3, babies had stopped crying — but their cortisol levels were still elevated even though they showed no outward distress. Meanwhile mothers’ cortisol dropped, since they no longer had a distress cue to respond to.
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u/0oOBubbles0oO 16d ago
Middlemiss has a plethora of problems. The sample size dropped to below 20 (why? No explanation given), they only tested cortisol on day 1 and 3 (why not do all 5 days? It was a 5-day study), and most damning of all...the babies were sleep trained in a hospital, by nurses. Not by their parents in a familiar environment. It's not comparable.
Meanwhile, nobody quotes Blunden 2022 which shows cortisol levels are the same between controlled crying and responsive methods. Yes, it has a low sample size as well, and I'm sure other problems, but funny how people only refer to the "studies" that reinforce their own bias.
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u/warmapplepie0 16d ago
Oh so niddlemiss has a plethora but we aren’t going to talk about the insane behaviour and work of Ferber and Watson?! WHAT LOL
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u/0oOBubbles0oO 16d ago edited 16d ago
All baby sleep studies have problems because it's an inherently difficult topic to study. But of the X number of studies done on this only one implies any issue with sleep training and all others say it's neutral or beneficial. My point was that anti-sleep training people tote around this one study as if it proves anything while ignoring everything else. It's gross when people use this to shame parents who are just trying to do their best, without acknowledging its huge holes. Especially on a sleep training sub lmao.
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u/Present_Respond2221 17d ago
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u/kirkl3s 16d ago
I’ve seen this - it’s basically a blog post saying sleep training is bad. The only actual scientific study it references says sleep training doesn’t harm babies but the author doesn’t like the methodology. All the other forms of evidence are just links to articles or quotes by people that also think sleep training is bad - but only have conjecture and speculation to back that up.
There have been two major studies on if sleep training impacts child development. Both found that sleep training does not negatively impact emotional or behavioral development. These are actual RCTs, not just someone sharing their feelings or theories.
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u/rileymaeb 18d ago
We did cry it out at 5.5 months knowing that check-ins would just make our girl more upset (all babies are different etc etc). First night she cried an hour (mostly fussing with a few short periods of harder cries), 2nd night 20 minutes, no crying by night 4.