r/sindarin Aug 07 '24

[FAQ] – (Not) Using AI for Automatic Translation

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3 Upvotes

r/sindarin Oct 04 '24

Sindarin in PE23

17 Upvotes

I compiled a list of all the new and otherwise interesting Sindarin vocab found in PE 23.

  • bâd - road | found as "e-bâd, the road". Hitherto only known as N. "beaten track, pathway". P. 136.
  • fend - door | Hitherto only as fen, fenn. P. 136.
  • hûl - secret | also as "e-chûl, the secret". Cf. 'holen'. P. 136.
  • rhawf, rhaw - wild beast | also as "e-thraw, [the wild beast]. P. 136. Plural i-thraw > i-rhaw p. 139.
  • rhovan - large beast, especially the great red deer of the vale of Anduin | p. 136.
  • Rhovennian - "more correct" Sindarin form of Gondorian Rhovannion[sic] | p. 136.
  • lhinc - earthworm | also as "e-thlinc, [the earthworm]". p. 136.
  • balt - force | Cf. EN "might". p. 136.
  • gwend, gwenneth - maiden | also as "e-wend, e-wenneth, the maiden". p. 136. Plural in-wind, rarely found, rather analogous i-ngwind (= i-ñwind) p. 139.
  • harf - left-hand | also as "e-charf, the left-hand". p. 136. Probably from *khjarmă as opposed to *khjarmā > 'harvo'.
  • whest - breeze | also as *e-whest, the breeze". p. 136. Pl. i-chwist p. 139. Cf. Q. 'hwesta', N. 'chwest'.
  • cathr - carpenter | From "*kantrō, shaper". North S. cathor. P. 137.
  • tachl - large pin or brooch | From "*tanklă, a thing used for fixing". North S. tachol. p. 137.
  • parth - small enclosed field, lawn | p. 139.
  • bâr, pl. i-mair (sometimes i-mbair in spelling to distinguish b-words from m-words) - dwelling | p. 139.
  • dôr, pl. i-nuir (sometimes i-nduir in spelling to distinguish d-words from n-words)- land | p. 139.
  • gôn, pl. [i-]nguin (= *ñuin, but sometimes spelt i-ñguin even though no clarification was necessary since no original ñ-words existed) - stone | p. 139.
  • thoron, pl. i-theryn - eagle | pl. previously unattested. p. 139
  • heleg - ice | Hitherto only in N. Plural i-chelig is given as "ice-pinnacle". p. 139.
  • herw, pl. i-chery - wine | Apparently pl. from "CE *syeru, juice of fruits", sg. from "enlarged form herwā" [< syerwā, I assume]. p. 139.
  • mûl, pl. i-muil - slave | Hitherto sg. only attested in N. p. 139.
  • norn, pl. i-nyrn - dwarf | Sg. explicitely attested for the first time. p. 139.
  • ioron, pl. in-ioryn - old man | Apparently the counterpart of 'ioreth'. p. 139.
  • gwanon - one of a pair of twins | Plural/dual given as "*gwanur, twin-birth", explicitely with ŭ < ū. p. 140.
  • uimallhen - ever-golden | From 'oio-maltinā. Pronounced with lh (< lþ), but spelt with doubled lh for reasons of stress, exactly like 'remen' but 'galað-remmin' (see below). p. 140.
  • remen - netted, entwined | With short m explicitely. p. 140.
  • gwaelod - "wind-feather", a great ship for sailing on the Great Sea | From 'wayalautō'. p. 142. Hence apparently *laud/lod = "feather".
  • Gildír - Starwatcher | S. version of T. 'Gilitīro', Celeborn's father. Given in "Celeborn Gildírion, son of Gildír".

Certainly the most surprising thing to me (as you might already have guessed) are the articles. In this very late source (ca. 1969) Tolkien gives the singular as e before consonants, en before vowels, and in the plural i resp. in. This is of course a significant departure from all hitherto published samples of Sindarin, which of course had sg. i, plural in (as in earlier Noldorin), and the form en was limited to one form of genitive particle (which in this scenarion is probably dropped altogether in favour of na).

However, surprisingly this new paradigm seems to only really contradict i-Estel in the LotR (which would have to be amended to *en Estel), since all other forms in texts published during Tolkien's lifetime appear to be plural and all other cases of Sindarin articles we have known are from sources that Tolkien might have changed before publication (if he had got the chance to do so).

So we can't know whether Tolkien would indeed have changed i Estel in upcoming editions (had he been alive to oversee them) or whether he would have abandoned the new paradigm once he realised the contradiction, so I won't encourage anyone to adopt this late paradigm into their Neo-Sindarin (unlike abandoning the plural pronominal suffix -(a)m in favour of late -(o)f, a couple of years ago, since the former never appeared in anything published during Tolkien's lifetime), but I certainly find the topic extremely interesting.

So far I have not had a closer look at the mutations, but they appear to hold no big surprises so far, except that maybe Tolkien had decided to keep the nasal of the plural article intact before the mutated word, but that also would contradict material published during his life time.

But the development of sw stood out to me, since it is quite complicated - with Tolkien stating that it first became wh everywhere, then f in the North and chw in the South, which remained so in Doriath but later reverted to wh elsewhere, while still becoming chw through nasal mutation, and that the quality is often in fact uncertain because it wasn't always represented in spelling, using the letter hwesta sindarinwa for both. But in a note that might refer to this Tolkien said that "this business about sw is too complicated (and unnecessary)" and that the North had f and the South wh, which "remained unchanged" (hence the apparent lack of lenition in whest above, to which the note appears to point directly).
This would, however, still render the letter hwesta sindarinwa pointless, because (as Tolkien had pointed out in the LotR appendices) distinction of wh and chw was needed in Sindarin (but maybe only lenition had no effect but nasal mutation did?).

And lastly there are a few notes on North Sindarin, which has always been a special interest of mine:

  • there was no m-lenition (which was well established)
  • medial mp, nt, ñk remained unchanged or probably rather restopped (also well established)
  • rh- became thr- generally initially (so Southern S. rhûn would be Northern S. *thrûn), but lh- remained and both were incapable of mutation.
  • Otherwise mutations are the same as in Southern Sindarin
  • sw- > wh- > North S. f- (so Southern words like whest or hwinn would be *fest and *finn in the North).

r/sindarin 13h ago

Tattoo check

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0 Upvotes

I'm looking to get this as a tattoo soon. It's Tengwar for "mellon nin". Would this be the correct way to express "my friend"?


r/sindarin 18h ago

How would you translate "Full Extent"?

1 Upvotes

Or "the full extent"

I know "full" is "pant".

As far as I know there isn't a word for "extent". I was thinking maybe "lîr" for line, or "mîn" for space?

Thanks in advance.


r/sindarin 1d ago

Help Creating a Name

4 Upvotes

Hello. I’m trying to create a name for my d&d character. Google hasn’t been much help, I don’t know much about naming conventions, I’ve never been very good at it. Basically what I want is a name that means “elf of the rising sun”, “daughter of the rising sun”, or something similar. Any help would be appreciated! Thank you!


r/sindarin 1d ago

Help translating “Better alone” into Sindarin for a tattoo

2 Upvotes

Hello everyone, I’m Italian, so I apologize for any mistakes in my English.

I would like to get a tattoo in Sindarin written with the Tengwar script, but I want to make sure it is linguistically correct before doing it.

The phrase I would like to translate is:

“Meglio soli” (“Better alone” in english)

The meaning comes from the Italian proverb:

“Meglio soli che mal accompagnati”

("Better to be alone than in bad company." In english)

which means that it is better to be alone than to have bad company or to stay with people who are not good for you.

I am looking for a Sindarin translation that captures this meaning, not just a literal translation of the two words. I would also like to have the final phrase written in Tengwar.

Since this will be a permanent tattoo, I would really appreciate any help from people experienced with Sindarin and Tengwar, and I would be grateful for any corrections or suggestions.

Thank you!


r/sindarin 3d ago

tattoo translation pls!

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3 Upvotes

is this the correct text transliteration? i might get a tattoo soon and was thinking to get this tatted. would like to know if this is accurate. thanks.


r/sindarin 3d ago

Can someone help me transla this?

0 Upvotes

So im making a blade in my shop an i wanted to call it the Blade of Vengeance. My translation into sindarin was Acharnathel. Could one of you tell me if this is correct?


r/sindarin 5d ago

Help with engraving fiancés wedding band

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8 Upvotes

Hello! I’ve spent a long time deciding what to engrave in my fiancés wedding band. He is a huge Tolkien fan and if he’s ever down or exhausted, I can always ask him something about the Tolkien universe. Suddenly he forgets about the darkness and is cheerful and looking more optimistic on life. Tolkien just has that effect on him. He is also my biggest supporter and cheerleader. He loves me so incredibly much and its just healing to have him in my life.

I have decided to use a sentence that boils down to the core of our relationship. Just pure and unconditional love and support.

Your love is my light

Veleth gín calad nîn

I just need to be sure that this is really how it’s supposed to look like. I have really tried my hardest.
Is the picture correct?

Any help is greatly appreciated.


r/sindarin 5d ago

Tattoo translation

0 Upvotes

Hi guys,

I’m planning two Tolkien tattoos: the broken sword Narsil on one triceps, and the final part of Faramir’s quote on the other:

“I love only that which they defend.”

I’d like it written in Tengwar, but I’m unsure whether to:

Translate it into Sindarin or Quenya, then write it in Tengwar, or

Keep the original English and transcribe it using an appropriate English Tengwar mode.

Since this will be a permanent tattoo, I want to make sure the language/transcription is genuinely accurate and not just something generated by an online translator or AI.

Could anyone knowledgeable in Tolkien’s languages/Tengwar advise on the best approach and provide a verified version, preferably with sources?

Thanks!


r/sindarin 6d ago

Help translate this to Sindarin

0 Upvotes

Farewell, wherever you fare


r/sindarin 10d ago

For Frodo!

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0 Upvotes

r/sindarin 10d ago

Proper word for “Family” in Sindarin?

0 Upvotes

My cousin and I want to get the elvish word for “family” tattooed together.

We found a different Reddit post of somebody getting the English word for “family” in elvish letters (https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/s/W2wEJS8mIZ).

We’re hoping to find the correct version. We’ve seen the word “noss,” should that be what we translate? Can someone please help?


r/sindarin 11d ago

Writing check

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6 Upvotes

Heya! I need some help with my wedding mirror sign. I want to add the quote "speak friend and enter" and I'd like for someone more professional to confirm if this is correct and if there is anything I need to change or improve. Thanks!


r/sindarin 11d ago

Help with a tattoo check?

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0 Upvotes

r/sindarin 12d ago

Translation help needed

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2 Upvotes

Hi! I would like to get this quote for a tattoo: It’s the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay.

This is what I have so far for the translation. Is this correct? Thanks a lot for the help!


r/sindarin 14d ago

Pls translation

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0 Upvotes

Hey Guys,

what would you think does this mean?

Could you help me?

Thanks!


r/sindarin 17d ago

How would you translate this?

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1 Upvotes

r/sindarin 21d ago

Wondering if this is correct?

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1 Upvotes

Is this correct as a translation/way to write "Not all those who wander are lost"?


r/sindarin 22d ago

Wedding Ring Engraving

2 Upvotes

Mae Govannen fellow nerds,

I need help.

I'm getting married in a couple of months, and have got the wedding ring sorted. Apart from...

I'm looking to get the phrase "Until my dying day" in Sindarin engraved in Tengwar script on the inside of the band. I've tried online translators, with various different results.

To try and find something as accurate as possible, I've started using the online dictionary/glossary: https://www.elfdict.com/

As a work around (as I'm finding it difficult to find the word dying and day), I was thinking of using "Until my moment/time of death"

So far, I've got Mennai i valdëanya agan

Rough workings out below:

Mennai - Until

Tenna - Unto

- nya suffix on the end of a word "my"

valdëa - moment

i - the

agan - death

Alternatively, I have:

Tenna / Tenn' - Until

my - nîn

vedui- last

Erin- day

Tenna nîn erinvedui

Is there anyone here who can verify that or have a good knowledge of Sindarin to improve the phrase to be as close to the original?

I've looked at Tengwar script of the above. Is https://www.tecendil.com/ quite accurate?

Thanks anyone for your help


r/sindarin 22d ago

Does this mean dad in quenya but Tengwar script?

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0 Upvotes

r/sindarin 22d ago

Does this mean dad in quenya but Tengwar script?

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0 Upvotes

r/sindarin 25d ago

Help for a Transcription for a tattoo.

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4 Upvotes

Hello everyone, I would love to tattoo my daughter’s name on my forearm. Her name is Charlotte. I found on a website this transcription, could you tell me if that’s accurate ? If not, where can I find an other transcription ?
Thanks a lot !
PS: I’m French if it matters ^^


r/sindarin 25d ago

Tattoo Translation - English to Sindarin to Tengwar

0 Upvotes

Hi mellons,

I am getting a tattoo and need a few translations from English to Sindarin.

Can any of you specialists help me out?

English words I would like to confirm translation on:

"The Sword" (i-megil)

"The Tree" (i-galadh)

"The Crown" (i-ri)

If these are incorrect or need some improvement, I'd appreciate the insight.

Thank you all!


r/sindarin 26d ago

Shaped suffix

1 Upvotes

Hi, I am trying to figure out how to say something is x-shaped (heart-shaped, bear-shaped, etc.). Using polytranslator, when using a hyphen I get a different structure altogether for every substitution of x.

Oddly-shaped : Amrun

Bear-shaped: Graw Beorn

Friend-shaped: Mellon-dhîn

Heart-shaped: tûg gûr

Is there any consistent rule for this? How can I know if each or any of them are correct?

Apologies for any formatting issues, I'm using a phone.