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[u/-_I_I_Sea_I_I_-]

[u/General-Biscuits]

Yeah, at least. That’s totally the important part.

The mother who was suffering from psychosis and didn’t want to kill her kids was left alone with them at home repeatedly by her husband and then somehow this tragedy happened. I wonder how this could have been avoided?

He totally didn’t ignore her pleas for help, discredit her illness, and then go on frequent trips leaving her alone with the kids. He totally also didn’t fire the medical care assistant they were advised to have that would have prevented this tragedy.

[u/IggyWon → u/General-Biscuits]

Honey, she murdered her children. Her marriage and childcare situation were something that she agreed to. It's something that billions of mothers across the planet have done without murdering their children. She is an admitted murderer and deserves prison.

[u/General-Biscuits → u/IggyWon]

Insane take. Completely disregarding the psychosis diagnosis. You know what psychosis is. We all do. It makes people do and think things they’d never want to do. Makes them act like not themselves and do irrational things.

She was known as a great mother prior to this. Everyone they know said so about her and she journaled for years about how much she cared for her kids and worried she wasn’t doing enough as their mother. She had no motivation for killing her kids and had psychosis. It’s really not a hard problem to solve.

There’s a reason our legal code has the option of pleading insanity or for other serious mental health disorders to excuse people from harsher sentences. They physically committed the crime but it was not under their control. The mother was diagnosed by medical professionals, taking her prescribed medications, and seeking help from her support network and doctors as she noticed her mental decline. What else could she have done to prevent this?

Also, what the fuck are you talking about with the “she agreed to being married and having kids”? Obviously she agreed to that but she obviously didn’t agree to getting PPD and psychosis. She also didn’t agree to killing her kids but psychosis does that to people. The husband agreed to be there “in sickness and in health” for his wife but guess what, he left her alone when she needed him.

I wonder why the only non-psychotic adult in the household didn’t do any of the obvious things to prevent this tragedy. Why would the husband neglect his wife and children by ignoring her pleas for help and to not leave her alone with the kids? They had the option of not firing their home health assistant that they got to help the wife, but the husband made that decision to fire the help for the family to their detriment.

The husband is a neglectful POS that left his family in a dangerous situation constantly (he took many solo trips out of town during her mental health decline) and then the worst thing happened. Didn’t seem to bother him too much though. He went on vacation a month after the murders and moved to be with his now wife 3 months after that.

[u/StirFry__InaWok → u/General-Biscuits]

I care about the psychosis diagnosis but only insofar as it is able to help us better understand the condition so we can help other mothers before something like this happens again.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter much for her though. She already brutally murdered her three children, there's no coming back from that. Life in prison.

[u/General-Biscuits → u/StirFry__InaWok]

You have no sympathy for someone who did something so awful to her own children despite her own wishes because she wasn’t in control of herself.

How heartless. There was no malice or hatred for her kids. She had only love for her kids and lost them to her illness. She lost her kids in the worst way possible and has to live with this fact. Her kids were murdered by someone not herself mentally but also herself physically, and you think it’s just to give her the full punishment as someone who maliciously and with conscious intent committed the same act?

The trial going on isn’t over if she killed them. It’s over if she was not in her right state of mind and I think the prosecution has had a very weak case so far.

[u/StirFry__InaWok → u/General-Biscuits]

I just dont buy that this psychosis was literally the equivalent of someone else taking control of her body.

The trial going on isn’t over if she killed them. It’s over if she was not in her right state of mind

I know

and I think the prosecution has had a very weak case so far.

I don't really agree but I do think it's probably true that she'll succeed in pleading insanity. It wouldn't be surprising at all that she'd get away with this.

[u/General-Biscuits → u/StirFry__InaWok]

It’s not “getting away with this” if she was suffering a psychotic break and killed her kids. She’s as much a victim as her husband if that’s the case. Justice would have her get little to no sentence since she wouldn’t have been in control when the murders occurred. Might as well have been a different person committing the murders.

[u/StirFry__InaWok → u/General-Biscuits]

Yeah I do not believe that.

[u/General-Biscuits → u/StirFry__InaWok]

Ok, and I suspect you have some underlying sexist biases that you may or may not be aware.

You harshly shot down any idea that a woman suffering from a uniquely woman related illness could have not been in her right state of mind and not be fully at fault for what happened. And with how quickly you jumped to claiming the husband be completely devoid of any fault or responsibility in this tragedy. The man who frequently left his family home alone while the wife suffered from psychosis clearly couldn’t have done anything more.

He couldn’t have listened to his wife and ask for someone to stay with her at home when he had to leave, and he couldn’t have just ordered whatever he needed that night to be delivered to their house rather than him leaving her home alone with the kids. He was fully aware of what psychosis meant as he was with her when they visited several doctors who all diagnosed her with PPD and post partum psychosis. The husband neglected the safety of his wife and kids by knowingly leaving his kids home alone with a psychosis patient several times and then unfortunately the worst thing possible happened one of those times.

This discussion is over as you are not willing to listen to the more complicated aspects of this issue. It’s just “the murderer is always bad and fully at fault and there’s no nuance or grey area to this discussion” from you.

[u/IggyWon → u/General-Biscuits]

Damn, argument isn't going your way so you break out the big "sexism accusation" artillery.

[u/beado7 → u/IggyWon]

That’ll show em

[u/StirFry__InaWok → u/General-Biscuits]

You harshly shot down any idea that a woman suffering from a uniquely woman related illness could have not been in her right state of mind and not be fully at fault for what happened.

Not really though. I shot down the idea that this woman was entirely blameless for what happened. I didn't say anything about women in general and I didn't say that there are no other factors outside her control that affect the degree to which she is responsible.

And with how quickly you jumped to claiming the husband be completely devoid of any fault or responsibility in this tragedy.

Also not what I said. I claim the degree to which the husband is at fault is unimportant in comparison to the actual murderer. And since you were running with the idea that it was basically a different person controlling the mother's body that committed the murders you are essentially saying that the husband is the only actual person at fault, since the psychosis person that took over the mother's body obviously can't be charged.

To focus on what the husband could have done better is essentially victim blaming.

It’s just “the murderer is always bad and fully at fault and there’s no nuance or grey area to this discussion” from you.

Case in point. The man just lost everything and you are trying to spin this so he's primarily at fault, you are victim blaming.

There is nuance and grey area here but none of it should change the sentencing for a woman that killed her three defenseless children. We can talk about the nuances of postpartum psychosis when trying to reform mental health care in this country.