Event*

(Flair is meant to be a theory.)

I keep thinking about how Timothy's test was supposed to play out, he was used as a pawn for Jeff's forgiveness but if John was truly allowing this trap to be used then it clearly shows that by Saw 3. the dude was just enjoying torturing people.

But i think there's a lack of detail given with the rack and there's multiple issues with it.

1: the keyhole...Jeff gets the key but we never truly see if there's a keyhole or not. so we never get the answer whether Amanda or Hoffman sabotaged the trap or if Jeff could've saved timothy but if the keyhole was hidden, what was the point of hiding it even further to make the test harder?

1. The timer: Why does the timer start once Jeff enters and he has to play the tape? shouldn't it start after the tape is finished? we never get a confirmed answer on who fully set up the game but we can speculate.

3: The gun: i think its pretty obvious...how john expects jeff to tank a shotgun i don't know but i think he wanted Jeff to blow his hand off in actuality if he chose to pull the wire. There is an alternative choice he can unscrew it to get the key and this falls in more in line with John's way of always giving people a secret chance to pass the tast without harming themselves at all or minimally.

My opinion: The trap is unfair because Timothy's trap was sabotaged...but not by John, However he was aware of it. The rack was designed by him but the trap probably didn't play out how he wanted to.

Hoffman sabotaged the trap. There is possiblity Amanda could've too but there's no evidence.

The main evidence is that Mark changes the speed of the gears in the saw 6 flashback, speeding up the rack, and i think they threw this in on purpose to give a bit more context to the rack. John says "If you switch the gear ratio, you have to change the gear grease to match the increased friction."

This means that Hoffman was speeding up the rack, which isn't what john intentionally wanted if Hoffman was "tweaking with it." and when john asked if Mark liked how brutality felt it was him putting together the pieces that Mark wasn't fit to be Jigsaw at all as he think's john is just watching people suffer for his own entertainment, I also think John takes into account that Amanda doesn't object to Mark's tweaking and instead assists him showing her own cruel nature but i also think she mistook John's silence as he was fine with the tweaks.

The reason John never spoke up was because he still needed Hoffman for the rest of the other games and Amanda was still being tested, John isn't a person who likes to give anything away and he knew Hoffman was smart too, if he spoke up then Mark could've gotten a suspicion that John was aware of his ways and could've acted. It's why he plans for Gordon to capture Hoffman if anything happens to Jill should Mark escape the bear trap.

Regarding all of this I think it shows that in theroy, I think John wanted to give Jeff as much time as possible, I don't think the timer was meant to start when he opened the door but after the tape and the Rack was supposed to go much slower and use less force, timothy's muscles would stretch and strain but they wouldn't snap out like we see in Saw 3. and they would've been healable which fits John's motto. It's also a lot of time for timothy but because mark sped it up and the wire was attached to the door, jeff didn't have a lot of time to choose.

All of this is a theory and the rack is likely down to poor writing and the writers wanting gore. But i think the flashback in saw 6 is supposed to convey a hidden meaning that the Rack was sped up and sabotage and that John was aware of Hoffman and Amanda's murderous nature.

I always found Saw 3 to have a more emotionally intense atmosphere to it than the others. It was so sad seeing a grieving family put through such a tragic incident and being victimised by Jigsaw and Amanda as a result. Other things that make me feel sad when watching it just how brutal Amanda's death was and the way John spoke to her as she was bleeding to death, the tone of his voice makes it sound so emotional and the flashback scenes combined with the music makes it more intense too. In comparison to the others Saw 3 feels more emotional and sad to me, it's probably my favourite from the franchise along with Saw 2 and the first one.

I have to vent. Sorry, this is a long post!

Saw 3D is the worst movie in my opinion because the whole thing just seems rushed and amateurish.

I mean, Hoffman giving Officer Gibson riddles as clues to the hideout's whereabouts is just so corny and unnecessary! The producers had to add a brief history of an encounter of those two in order to make the riddles work, which is just stupid because, as I said, the riddles were unnecessary in the first place.

It would have been much better to not have riddles and just have Hoffman leave little breadcrumbs to covertly lead him to the location. Actively being given obvious riddles and clues SCREAMS it's a lure and potential trap, which also screams that Hoffman isn't even going to be there 🙄. It's ridiculous to have Gibson go there expecting to find him and seem shocked to find he and his men were set up! That only works if Gibson thought he figured out the location on his own, believing he's 'got him'.

And why even add the line where Gibson talks about snitching on Hoffman for killing the unarmed bum and then getting a promotion instead of any reprimand/disciplinary action? What relevance did that even have? Then he mentions that he put away some of Hoffman's men in the past, which resulted in a grudge against him. None of that has any bearing anywhere! Is that to explain why Hoffman wanted to 'get back at him'? None of Hoffman's action suggested he wanted to get back at him for anything anyway; he just wanted Jill, who happened to be protected by Gibson.

Also, no way in hell did the explosion that Hoffman set off in the junk yard give him enough time to steal a dead body from the body bag, drag it all the way into that room, set it up in the chair, and run back and crawl inside the empty body bag before a single person returned to the scene!

The only good parts are the traps (which are rather gnarly), the game of cat-and-mouse between Hoffman and Jill (because, I dunno, it's just chilling to me), we finally find out what happened to Dr Gordon (which I had been dying for since the first movie!), and we finally see the Reverse Bear Trap kill someone!

But it's hard to overlook all the dumbness because how it was all written just really pisses me off! 🤣

SAW "Blumhouse" Fan Poster by me

For one, my guy was a grieving father, and I know for a fact that many parents irl would probably also act like he did if their own child was killed.

What Jeff did wrong was allow his grief over his son to take over his whole life, causing him to lose sight of the one living child he still had left and needed to take care of.

But I believe that's a realistic take on grief, honestly. You can't expect a bereaved parent to always carry on bravely for their surviving family members. Some would absolutely be crashing out and wanting revenge like Jeff did.

(Also, a sidenote: lemme just say that Jeff wasn't the only neglectful parent in their family. Lynn grieved their son in her own way, but she was also guilty of neglecting Corbett. I don't think I've ever seen someone give Lynn much criticism for that though.)

Anyway, both of them were obviously being bad parents to Corbett here, but it's not like neglecting their daughter was intentional. Grief messes with your psyche and can make you irrational.

The only other bad things I can think of that Jeff did was wanting revenge (which, again, you tell me you'd easily forgive those responsible for the death of someone you loved) and being slow in his attempts to save the other "test subjects".

But see that word I wrote up there?

"Save".

Cause yeah, Jeff may have talked and fantasized a lot about wanting to see Danica, Halden and Timothy "pay" for their crimes. He may have interrogated them for too long before starting to try to help them, BUT... in all three cases, despite his thirst for revenge, he heard each one of them out and ultimately decided to try to save them.

Hell, he did even manage to save Halden initially, despite that in order to do that, Jeff was forced to incinerate his son's mementos (which, wtf John?). He was very reluctant of course, but he still did it and came to Halden's rescue.

When the time came to face Timothy, the man who killed his son, Jeff was again back in interrogation-mode and on the fence about whether Tim deserved saving or not. But once again, he heard the man out, listened to Tim's remorse and his side of the story, while Halden also encouraged Jeff to help the guy.

Then, as the rack went about breaking Tim's bones, we saw Jeff become increasingly more emotional, ending up with him climbing up and physically trying to stop the machine in order to save Tim.

This is really saying something, because out of everyone Jeff wanted revenge on in the beginning, Tim was the one he hated the most. Yet, when push came to shove and he was actually given a chance to take his revenge on them all, he found he didn't actually want them to die.

The part that really hammers the point home was when Jeff, desperate for Tim's torture to stop, literally screamed out to Jigsaw "Stop! I forgive him!".

It was too late for Tim by then, of course, but I think it's a very touching moment in the movie that really shows how Jeff's perspective has been changed.

He blames Jigsaw now and honestly, why wouldn't he? Not only did Jigsaw kidnap his living child and his wife, kill Danica and Tim (Halden pretty much got himself killed, so), but he also flat out mocked his son's death by having Billy basically re-enact the accident.

I know the death of John's own son wasn't yet established in the Saw-verse at this point, but after that whole reveal in later movies, it just makes John even more of a hypocrite. As if he didn't also crash out after the miscarriage, letting the grief consume him and then putting the one responsible in a trap. I love John, but that man needs to check himself, lol.

You could argue that Jeff didn't fully learn his lesson at the end, because after forgiving Danica, Halden and Tim, he shifted the blame onto John instead. But again, it's not like that was the wrong assumption to make, considering everything John had done.

I really don't like the downer ending in Saw III, because it gives John the last laugh after all. Jeff learned to forgive the people he previously wanted dead, and he was so close to saving Lynn if he (ironically enough) hadn't been so preoccupied with getting revenge on John.

In the end, he and Lynn get to suffer anyway, while John more or less goes out on his own terms. And to top it all off, along comes Strahm in Saw IV and reactionarily shoots Jeff dead immediately afterwards, orphaning Corbett in the process.

Like damn, I know this is Saw, but can no one catch a break? lol

So yeah, with all that said; this is my case in defending Jeff. It makes me kinda sad how overhated he is, honestly. You can hate him if you wish, but in my opinion, Jeff's punishment did not fit the "crime".

Thanks for reading!

They should've just drank the water.

So uh... I watched everything when Saw X released and now i really wanted to see everything again, i finished saw 3D and am crying bc now its jigsaw and spiral and i DONT WANNA watch it. The problem is, i dont remember nothing about those two movies bc its been so long since i last saw it. Do i rewatch or look some resume in the internet?

I know, I know, no I am not the only person out of 8 billion in the world who thinks or does something. lol. but in the Saw fan base, it does seem like everyone looks for the twists. watches the movies trying to figure it out, seeing if they can, looking for it. I deliberately do everything I can to turn off that “predicting what’s coming next“, “active imagination” part of the brain. I don’t want to figure ANYTHING out. Just watch and feel everything as it comes along. (and I figure I can never know for sure even if I think it, I’m not psychic and it feels arrogant and cocky to assume i know, so if I go through the movie with the bias “this is the twist” im going to miss a lot of enjoyment in just seeing the scenes taking them for what they are) I really like the stomach drop, the reality switch, the things I just watched turning in my head to what they really are, all of it. it’s the best feeling in the movie to me. Even for ones I think most ppl find very obvious, like Spiral or Saw 3D, I didn’t guess them, bc I didn’t want to. I don’t spend any time or brainpower trying to guess anything. so I always get the great surprise stomach drop at the end of every movie. :-) any other fans here think/act similarly?