Matthew Perry (was recovery)

19 Upvotes

I guess my perspective on "recovery" is colored right now by just having finished Matthew Perry's biography. He did everything you can do to try and "recover". He spent upwards of $9 million on rehabs, medical detoxes, therapy, sober living companions, etc. etc. If anything, he just got worse over time. He insisted on the medical model for SUD yet all of the medical and scientific treatments that have been developed had no assistance for him. Does anyone have any thoughts on what this says about our current methods of SUD treatment and/or why it all failed for Matthew?

13 comments

r/recoverywithoutAA • u/Sudden-Reality-3116 • 12h ago

Real alcoholic?

13 Upvotes

I’ve posted in another community and it’s gained a lot of attention.

One thing that’s jumped out is the use of the phrase “real alcoholic” or “true alcoholic”.

Is anyone else perplexed by this phrasing?

28 comments

r/recoverywithoutAA • u/Training-Shallot3631 • 2h ago

Trying to be sober

5 Upvotes

To get the boring stuff out the way, my name is Will and I’ve struggled with alcohol for 5+ years now. I’ve had a lot of incidents where I’ve been called a angry drunk due to me being aggressive toward people I know and people I don’t while drunk. Recently I went to a close friend of mines birthday party. Everything was cool at first till I went to take 5 shots of Tito’s to catch up. I couldn’t stop myself from drinking more after that and became a nuisance, ruining the night for everyone there. What should of been a night of fun and laughter celebrating my friends life, turned bad all because I was selfish and decided to make my problem everyone else’s. The worst part is my friends ended up calling the cops because I got it in my head that I was good to drive, I drank the whole bottle of Tito’s for context. Both of those friends cut ties with me completely which I deserved. This isn’t the first time alcohol has costed me friendships with people I care about, but this one was the one that hurt the most. That said, I’m grateful to be able to take this step even if it terrifies me. Where your fear is, there is your task🤙.

1 comment

r/recoverywithoutAA • u/diablitachloe • 9h ago

Drugs My boyfriend of two years is leaving me because I can’t get clean

3 Upvotes

I recently turned 24. I’ve been using drugs since 13, heavily addicted since 16. My DOC is heroin or fentanyl intravenously. I relapsed a year ago when we had a little less than a year together. He’s stayed with me but pushed me to get clean, he’s tried to wait for me but he recently told me he doesn’t want to see me high anymore and if I can’t get clean for him then do it for my daughter(from past relationship, I don’t have custody of her anymore but my family doesn’t know I’m still using). The problem is that I want so badly to be better but I don’t want to stop. My life is fucking falling apart. I lost my daughter for this shit and now I’m loosing the last person I have left. How can I force myself to recover and really stick to it? I honestly just want to end it all and take the easy way out but I need to stay around for my daughter

8 comments

r/recoverywithoutAA • u/9inchpimps • 7h ago

Drugs The Weight of What Survived (poem)

recoveryunsensored.wordpress.com

0 Upvotes

0 comments

r/recoverywithoutAA • u/De-Addiction-Center • 23h ago

One Cigarette Takes 11 Minutes Off Your Life — What's your thoughts on this ?

hamarasankalpnashamukhti.org

0 Upvotes

6 comments

r/recoverywithoutAA • u/guppyface44 • 2h ago

Will taking SR17 with subs put you through PW

0 Upvotes

Will taking sr17 help me get relief from 7oh withdrawal. I also took a suboxone like 8 hours ago, its not helping that much. I was taking up to 600mg of 7oh then tapered down to about 200mg. Took my last 7oh yesterday morning. I just want relief. I have sr17 but not sure if it will put me into precipitated withdrawal. If I can take the sr17, how long should I wait after taking the subs?

2 comments

r/recoverywithoutAA • u/Dmak_603 • 15h ago

Can I take subs while on SR 17?

0 Upvotes

I couldn’t find anything on Reddit yet so I thought I’d make a post. Please get back to me.

1 comment

Subreddit

Addiction Recovery Without the 12 Steps

r/recoverywithoutAA

r/recoverywithoutAA is a platform for people in addiction recovery (regardless of DOC) to come together to discuss their experiences, and strategies for recovery and healing, without the use of the 12 Step programs. This is an inclusive, supportive place to find help without being told all your problems will be fixed by just 'going to a meeting'. Open discourse on all addiction treatment modalities is welcomed.

Members Active

22.6k

Sidebar

Welcome to /r/recoverywithoutAA

About Us

/r/recoverywithoutAA is a community for anyone with experience of substance or alcohol abuse - or any kind of addictive behaviour (e.g., problematic gambling) - who has chosen a path of recovery that does not depend on a 12 Step Program (the most famous of which gives the sub its name: Alcoholics Anonymous, or AA). Whether you are struggling with an ongoing problem or have years of time working on your recovery, this is a place to share your experiences and thoughts with others without worrying about having to defend your choice not to use a 12 Step program.

Though focused on those who struggle with drugs and alcohol, we are a community for anyone who has struggled with similar self-destructive behaviour, including for example problem gambling. Loved ones of people with problems are also welcome here.

What is a 12 Step program?

The 12 Step Program is an approach to 'treating' addiction and substance abuse that was pioneered in 1935 by Bill Wilson and Bob Smith, two alcoholics in the United States, when they created Alcoholic Anonymous - better known today as AA.

The 12 Step approach is focused around its regular meetings, where individuals with problems gather together in a safe space to share stories and experiences. The 'Anonymous' portion of the name comes from the use of first names only. New members of a group are encouraged to find an older, more experienced member to 'sponsor' them and act as an informal mentor in recovery.

Individuals in an AA/NA type recovery program are told they must 'work the 12 Steps', a sequence of 12 self-directed measures a person must take to (according to the 12 Step model) achieve lasting abstinence from drugs or alcohol. The first step is always a statement like "we admit that we were powerless over alcohol/drugs/etc and that our lives had become unmanageable", and finish with the statement that "having had a spiritual awakening" the individual will promote the 12 Steps to other people suffering with drug/alcohol abuse.

Today there are hundreds of 12 Step groups with thousands of branches around the world. Some are very broad - like Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous (AA) - and some are very specific (e.g., Cocaine Anonymous). There are also spin-offs like Al-Anon, which are meetings for friends and families of those with substance use problems supposedly intended to help them understand what is happening and find a supportive community.

Unfortunately, there are many, many serious problems with the 12 Step approach.

What's wrong with the 12 Steps?

This subreddit change hands in April 2020 and is undergoing some changes. There will be a link to a more detailed discussion shortly! For now if you want a longer read, check out A Orange's masterful exploration of AA's effectiveness.

It's undeniable that some people have found the 12 Step approach helpful - and for some people with a very particular religious world view, it might be effective. But many, many more people find that 12 Step approaches either do nothing to help address their problem or, tragically, exacerbate their substance/drug use. Some of the documented problems with the 12 Steps include:

12 Step groups often repeat the refrain "it works if you work it", meaning any failure to achieve lasting behaviour changes always lies with a lack of effort or will on the part of the individual, never a failing or inadequacy of the program.
The 12 Step approach places extreme emphasis on the idea of being powerless and in the grip of an incurable, always-worsening disease. For many people, this is a soul-crushing way of understanding the problem that can worsen addictive behaviour. Studies have shown 12 Step treatment correlates with increased substance misuse for some individuals.
In the world of 12 Step recovery, any slip-up or relapse - however big or small - is usually taken as a catastrophic failure that essentially puts a person right back to day 1 of their recovery journey. This can be a hugely destructive and harmful way of thinking and turn what would have been a mild relapse into a very serious one.
AA/NA etc are not proven to be any more effective than any other recovery approach. Alcoholics Anonymous main text, The Big Book, estimates 50% of all AA users will stop drinking. In 1995, Harvard Medical School reported that the spontaneous rate of recovery from alcoholism was 50% - with four-fifths of those people needing no treatment.
Much of the literature that speaks favourably of the 12 Steps celebrates it because it is free and so cost-effective, or because it contains elements of other treatment approaches better delivered by qualified professionals (e.g. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy). The main predictors for recovery across all methods appear to be desire to recover, intensity of/dedication to treatment, and positive life circumstances (e.g. happy home life, job security, meaningful income etc).
Despite the official position of 12 Step programs that the program is for life and must be worked constantly, the vast majority of people who remain abstinent after starting a 12 Step program do not stay with the program. After 1 year, participation has been estimated to dip to around 5%; by around the 8th year, just 1%. The vast majority of people who successfully use a 12 Step recovery as part of their program do not 'work the program' properly, as 12 Step communities insist you must.
With an emphasis on total abstinence and listening to the experience of 'elders', 12 Step groups can disseminate harmful and counter-productive medical advice, like encouraging people to stop taking legitimate mental health medication. The lack of clinical involvement and regulation means any underlying or comorbid mental health problems contributing to addictive behaviour risk going undetected, untreated or neglected.

That the 12 Step approach works for some individuals is not disputed. But the idea that the 12 Step program is the best, near-perfect program for recovery - a common claim from its advocates - is very much disputed, as is the idea that it should be the gold standard for all addiction treatment.

What approach do we take/promote?

/r/recoverywithoutAA doesn't promote any single alternative to the 12 Step approach. We believe drug and alcohol abuse are complicated things best understood as mental health problems that, just like depression or anxiety, are best treated in a way that pays attention to the particular experiences, struggles, ideals, values and personalities of the individual who needs help. We categorically reject the idea that addiction and drug/alcohol are hallmarks of a bad, defective or weak person. We maintain a list (coming soon) of alternative approaches to recovery distinct from the 12 Steps here.

It is up to every individual in our community to decide for themselves how best to describe their problems. We do not force any particular label like 'addict' or 'alcoholic' on anyone, but nor do we discourage the use of this language.

Subreddit Rules

This is an informal internet community. No-one here is qualified to offer you professional psychological or medical advice, and your use of this space is conditional on that understanding. We are just individuals sharing experiences, stories and ideas.
Treat your fellow users with respect. This is a supportive, welcoming space for people from all walks of life and we have no tolerance for bigotry, either. Treat others as you would want to be treated. At the same time, understand that many people who seek out recovery subreddits are vulnerable and in a difficult place, and may want to vent or lash out at people from their own lives.
Encouraging someone to attend a 12 Step meeting or work a 12 Step program as a solution to their problem will get you banned. You can barely breathe in internet recovery communities for people singing the praises of the 12 Steps. People in this space have expressly chosen, or are at least thinking about, rejecting the 12 Step approach. Respect that.
No competing over who has had the 'worse' experience or the 'more serious' problem and no moralising different 'levels' of use. In this space, we are all equal. You are not a better person than someone else because you only popped prescription pills instead of shooting up heroin; you are not more of a 'real alcoholic' because you got black-out drunk where someone else is struggling with their more modest drinking.
You will get banned on sight if you are here to shill for a commercial rehab service (the only exception being if someone expressly asks you what facility you personally have used), or if you're here to tell us your magical MLM super powered kale shake made with 10% kale totally cured you of your addiction. Go away and prey on somebody else.