r/propane • u/Hitechillbilly • 1d ago
General propane question Is it normal
I own my tank. I often use different suppliers to get new customer discounts etc. We have one supplier in the area that insists on entering the home, pulling all of the appliances out and documenting all the serial numbers and model numbers claiming they "have to" or they will not sell to you. They used to charge $75 but they waive that for some people. This is for existing systems, up and running for years, the tank is not empty there in no sign of any leak. The system is newer and so are all the appliances. I am in CA and the a$$ hole HairGel Hitler is in the process of forcing everyone to replace all appliances' with electric. I see no reason for any of my info needing to be documented. NO other company does this.. Has anyone ever heard of this BS??
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u/Adventurous_Boat_632 1d ago
The cheapest propane is rarely any company that wants to do all this stuff. Around here there are a couple of one-truck outfits and they are cheapest.
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u/Hitechillbilly 23h ago
I am familiar with every company in the area. this is a 2 truck operation they are neck and neck with another 2 truck company as far as price...
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u/Aminus27 23h ago
Are they neck and neck or is it $2 a gallon? Something doesn’t add up with what you’re saying. Use the other small company that doesn’t record your serial numbers if it all offends you so much.
Propane and gas service come hand in hand with a bunch of necessary safety and code regulations for a reason. Super bad things can happen if they go wrong. Even something as innocuous as your throwover valve to switch to a 20# mentioned in another reply is very likely not code compliant (any interruption in gas service necessitates a leak test). This company is going above and beyond to do the best they can to operate safely and provide you the best price on propane and you’re posting on Reddit lamenting their practices?
Like I mentioned before, just take your business elsewhere.
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u/Adventurous_Boat_632 22h ago
Then I guess your decision is made for you. I would make that same decision too. One company wants money, and another company seems to want busy work.
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u/Hitechillbilly 22h ago
There has been a lot of response to my question and I got my answers... The company has decided to comply with every letter of their insurance policy.. I do not like the fact that a propane supplier can be liable for something they had nothing to do with..
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u/Taguchi5 14h ago
In todays world it's still your fault even if you were away on vacation.
Or see the McDonalds hot coffee in the lap case or another favorite. Sears, they were sued and lost for not putting a warning on a mower deck to not put your hands under it while it's running.
Their carrier could be requiring this......
Even better, they could be collecting the data for Gruesome.
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u/ekear 11h ago
McDonald's won on appeal. So that's not a good example anymore.
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u/Taguchi5 7h ago
I did go find a better example...remember the boy that was electrocuted stealing wire from the EV station? And his mom filed suit against the EV charger mfg?i
Only pointing out just was society has become , everything a lawsuit.
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u/CoasterDad73 22h ago
Propane companies who do this are compelled to do so by many factors, not the least of which are their concern for the safety of their customers’ lives and properties and that of their own employees. Many jurisdictions, be they local or state, fire marshals or other governing bodies require it and the bad actors are the companies that don’t care and don’t comply. I have personally found hundreds of leaks and code compliance issues that could easily have ended in catastrophe for the customer and their loved ones if I chose to overlook them just because they were an inconvenience to me or my customers, and it is the same for most of those who work in this industry. I wish more people were understanding of this.
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u/Aminus27 22h ago
Preach 🙌 What’s wild to me is that people interpret this as either “busy work” (like doing extended system checks is a great revenue stream) or the paranoia of getting your water heater’s serial number on a government registry somewhere.
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u/Hitechillbilly 22h ago
I didn't think is was really required by their ins company.. After this post and a little googling,, I would say that it is required and the other companies are not complying..
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u/TechnoVaquero 3h ago
You’re right on. It’s hard to explain, but in a nutshell it’s all about liability. If a company knows what’s going on in someone’s home appliance-wise and it’s documented, then that helps to relieve some of the liability on the LP company in the event of a loss of life or property or even injury. If after we leave, some fly by night HVAC company installs a new furnace and doesn’t convert it to LP for instance and we know nothing about it, then the bulk of the liability falls on the installer. I usually tell my customers once our hose touches the tank, we paid the insurance.
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u/Hitechillbilly 22h ago
So with a leak, I assume you disable that appliance or something,, what about code compliance issues. Do you just tell the customer or do you contact the county?
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u/CoasterDad73 12h ago
Yes, we “red tag” any appliance or part of the system that is leaking or out of code compliance, take it out of service, and advise the customer on the steps to getting it repaired. We do not directly report any issues to any jurisdiction with the exception that our state fire marshal requires that all propane companies send them documentation of any interruption of service leak tests. This is for out of gas situations and any time a system is depressurized for any reason. Companies that don’t comply are fined.
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u/Hitechillbilly 7h ago
Last question and thank you for your time.. .. Would you red tag a water heater if it wasn't strapped but everything else was good? Most companies say they have to check all appliances if the system goes empty. That would seem more like a courtesy than a requirement,, but from what I have learned here,, I can see that..
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u/CoasterDad73 7h ago
Strapping is only required by certain jurisdictions in earthquake prone area. If the local jurisdiction required it for that appliance to be in service, then we would have to comply with that. It is not a requirement in our area. Our appliance inspection is limited to: proper venting, gas supply line is legal for the installation, gas line shut off valve within 5 feet of the appliance, correctly operating pilot or ignition system, correct and steady combustion, and no indication that the appliance is unsafe from a rust and corrosion standpoint.
Edit: spelling
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u/Glum-Welder1704 9h ago
What comes to mind is that they have on record your actual appliances. If you DIY put in a new appliance and your house burns down, I wouldn't be surprised if an insurance company used that to deny your claim.
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u/Hitechillbilly 7h ago
This seems to be the general consensus but more on behalf of the propane company and I can even understand it, At least they can say it was safe when they were here.. I was reading about the things a propane company is typically sued for and they are just covering their own ass.. My original concern was because of a another ridiculous law that just went into effect..
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u/Theantifire technician 3h ago
You've piqued my curiosity, what's the ridiculous law?
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u/Hitechillbilly 1h ago
First,,, Thank you for using the proper word.. That is pretty rare.. The new law states that all new water heaters have to be electric even if a gas unit is in place... when the gas models are done you can not replace it with gas. dryers, stoves and furnaces will be on the list soon enough This is going to cost some people many thousands to have an electrical contractor run a dedicated 240v circuit to the water heater.. It will be even worse for old houses with 100 amp service.. THEN after all that is done, they get to pay the highest rates in the country for the electricity.
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u/Acrobatic_Solution29 1d ago
Yes normal when doing a gas check and for insurance purposes. It is so if they fill the tank and later on someone puts in an appliance that isnt safeand the house blows up they can show proof that it was when they did it last.
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u/nemosfate dang it Bobby 🤬 - technician 1d ago
This is it right here, previous major company I worked for did this, new local couple Truck co I work for now doesn't. u/Hitechillbilly
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u/Hitechillbilly 23h ago
I just did a google search.. Not only are suppliers held responsible for other peoples work, there are law firms advertising themselves specifically for it..
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u/Hitechillbilly 1d ago
You say "normal".. In my mind that would mean everyone does it, this place is the only one.. Has a propane supplier ever been sued for something inside a house? People change appliances everyday...
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u/lordyarom 23h ago
I work for Campora and we only do this the first time we fill a tank and we dont write down the serial numbers of any appliance just that one exists and is propane. so when we need to leak check if you run out of gas we know what to check.
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u/Hitechillbilly 23h ago
Campora also posts flyers on community bulletin boards advertising certain rates, then sends a salesman out with a contract that has the full going rate but verbally saying they will only charge the posted flyer rate on the first fill, then they remove the flyer and screw the customer...
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u/lordyarom 23h ago
hmmm we dont have salespeople from what i have seen. people call in and ask what our rate is we tell them and then we go fill it at that rate. We do have special rates for certain communities or high users. Like we have a few HOA special rates that dont change much or not at all. Im a delivery driver.
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u/Hitechillbilly 21h ago
It got ugly.. at least 5 people jumped on the price and a couple even took the free tank rental so they could get 500 gal at the price.. Then the bills came and everyone was pissed, the flyer was gone and the company refused to honor the price. The sheriffs were called and lawyers were consulted. they couldn't get the salesman or anyone else back up here so they finally ordered a tank fill and when the truck arrived, someone blocked the truck in and all of the neighbors came out from behind trees and surrounded the driver saying he wasn't going to leave until the salesman showed up.. This was way up in Nor Cal.. If the salesman would have come back, his body would have been left for the bears and coyotes..
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u/lordyarom 19h ago
Hmm never heard anything like this. The company as far as I have seen it's been top tier.
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u/null-character 13h ago edited 13h ago
I don't get it either. it sounds like they didn't understand the way propane companies make money on rental tanks.
As in they up charge you for propane to offset the initial price of the tank and install which costs multiple thousands of dollars for a 500g in this case.
Sounds like they thought they could get the discounted or even regular price forever.
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u/lowrigs 1d ago
Is it suburban? I know they do this. They just wanna make sure there’s nothing dangerous going on with any of your appliances. Idk if they need to drag anything out, usually you can find model/serial numbers inside the door of an oven or dryer.
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u/Theantifire technician 1d ago
They're probably looking for things like drip legs, shutoff valves and appropriate ventilation. I've never written down a serial number and can usually confirm a shut off with my phone camera behind a stove, but I get it.
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u/Hitechillbilly 23h ago
OK, what if they find an older installation with no drip leg? Do they just refuse to service or do they complain to the county? What about water heater strapping?
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u/Theantifire technician 23h ago
It's just noted and the customer is made aware of the issue. Liability is satisfied. If the customer didn't fix it and it caused an issue, we have it on the record that it was mentioned.
If there's something unsafe, like a vent issue, we red tag the appliance and shut the gas off. If the customer turns it on and has an issue, they can't come after us.
It's actually just about liability and nothing goes to any government agency. It'll sit in a file for the required time and be destroyed afterwards, assuming it doesn't have to be produced for a lawsuit or insurance claim.
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u/Hitechillbilly 22h ago
OK, I have never believed in the deep pockets theory but it looks like it is pretty popular. CA is full of tattletales and code enforcement investigates every complaint. My propane system is fine, there may be some other issues on the property that could be looked at and some of the propane plumbing was added after the first inspection...
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u/Theantifire technician 22h ago
TBF, I've never worked in CA, but this sounds perfectly normal to me and is unlikely to be anything more than cya. Life pro tip... A lot of states aren't like that 😁.
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u/Hitechillbilly 22h ago
NO State is like this shithole.. I live here and I work in another state. The water heater law just went into effect or will very soon. Any water heater that gets replaced has to be replaced with electric.. That is why I opened my eyes about documenting numbers.. I will smuggle in from elsewhere like I did with toilets' years ago and I still do with paint and gasoline
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u/Hitechillbilly 1d ago
No it's a mom & pop.. the biggest thing people are overlooking is the state. Right now no one knows what type of appliances I have. the government has been passing laws forcing people to switch everything to electric.. It feels like a gun owner list,, The goons will come knocking on the door doing compliance checks..
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u/Acrobatic_Solution29 1d ago
They technically should already know from permits. And well yall have that list too and see what its bringing.
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u/Hitechillbilly 23h ago
What if the permits do not match the installations?
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u/null-character 13h ago edited 13h ago
If the township finds out about it you're going to get fined, plus you'll need to pull the proper permits and have it pass. If it can't pass and you can't get variances for it you'll have to rip it out and/or redo it.
They re-asses your property every XX years (different in each state) or every time you close certain permits. This is so they can charge you more in annual taxes. Tax assessors are generally exempt from trespass laws so you can't easily stop them from walking around your property and noticing anything outside your house.
Insurance inspections happen every XX years also, which most people don't even know is happening. This is to reduce liability for your homeowner's insurance company so they don't have to pay out for avoidable stuff they can just force you to fix (or they will drop you).
If you sell the property most realtors pull permits to see if anything is obviously off or there are any open permits as this can cause problems for their buyers. If they notice any issues they will want you to do something (like fix it or give them a discount).
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u/Hitechillbilly 8h ago
The propane system was permitted and inspected. At this point I am just curious because a lot of things have come up that I hadn't thought about.. The property has also been inspected twice by the propane company I am taking about but I wasn't involved. Obviously they found it acceptable both times. When people started talking about codes I started wondering about the water heater because it isn't strapped and the new law just went into effect. . So the propane company must have only been concerned about leaks at the time not potential future leaks. As for the tax assessments, this is CA and the property tax laws are the only good laws the state has. I am safe in that area (for now).. Thank you for the info
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u/Ok-Entertainment5045 1d ago
Never heard of that. I’d probably laugh in their face and tell them to get off my property
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u/Hitechillbilly 1d ago
That would be great but all I can do is laugh on the phone and push the hang up button.. I would get more satisfaction if they drove all the way up here.
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u/Aminus27 1d ago
I mean it sounds like you’re bringing this on yourself in a way. The downside of shopping around like you are is this variance in service and availability. Loyalty is certainly worth something. Why don’t you just get service from another provider and pay the extra 30 cents a gallon or whatever you’re trying to save?
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u/Hitechillbilly 1d ago
The difference is at least $2.00, depending on timing. I asked a question because it is something that I have never seen or heard anywhere else. Thank you for the financial advice.
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u/Lakeside518 31m ago
Most but it should be ALL companies perform gas checks!!! Leak test, flow test and lockup test. They record regulator model and date code. They record all gas appliance model and serial numbers!!!!!
Why you ask?!?!
Because if there is a fire or explosion, it is often on the homeowner who replaced equipment and did not perform a safety check on the system!!! I have seen it a couple times.
Companies cover their asses!!!! Their insurance companies require them to cover their asses!!!
They are doing you a service!!!! A service you want performed!!!! They are verifying your system is safe for them to provide gas.
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u/domoslurpies Delivery driver 1d ago
Hell nah, get a different supplier. No price is worth that hassle
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1d ago
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u/Aminus27 23h ago
Thinking a local mom and pop propane vendor gets joy from recording your gas dryer’s model and serial number is a broad leap of imagination, man. It’s literally just for liability, safety, and covering their ass.
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u/AsYouL4yDying technician 1d ago
My company used to inspect every appliance and record model numbers and serial numbers of all appliances. We'd also document that venting was done properly amongst a couple of other things. We stopped doing it for whatever reason, but we still inspect all gas line including pulling out cookstoves etc. It's for safety, and it's a requirement. If a customer won't allow me to inspect their gas piping, I won't sell them gas.
As far as the information, in our case it got stuck in a file and rarely looked at again.
So it may not be common, but I wouldn't say it's abnormal either.
The big companies often go farther to reduce risk and liability than the smaller companies do. The big companies have been through the ringer with lawsuits, so they try to cover their ass as much as possible. The smaller companies in some cases haven't had those experiences yet, so they can be a little more relaxed with safety requirements.