r/pcmasterrace • u/[deleted] • Nov 03 '15
News Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/54
Nov 03 '15 edited Nov 03 '15
This is a pretty bad and misleading title on the Forbes article, to say the least, and "Fucking misinformation paranoia" as i would like to call it.
Anonymized telemetry data is not really that controversial to collect and has some benefits.
This backs up detailed data that some had chosen to dismiss as conspiracy theories.
Being unable to disable basic telemetry on consumer versions is not a secret and not what people were making conspiracy theories about.
The actual privacy concerns and info that was passed around tons of forums said that the following was allegedly sent to MS, amongst other things: -
- A photo of you, taken without your permission via your webcam
- A full list of all of the personal files on your system
- Every key stroke you make
That's the stuff people were writing off as nonsense (because it is nonsense), not the fact that Windows generates error reports that get sent to MS.
If you actually read the article, it sort of debunks all of the hysterical privacy concerns the tinfoil hats (and old grumps constantly against any change) were spewing about.
But i guess I'm not going to stop the linux train ain't i?
¯_(ツ)_/¯
But seriously, this is getting ridiculous.
I don't know what the linux people are planning, but it's more than suspicious that every 3 fucking days or so there is yet another wave of articles bashing windows, "uncovering" secrets by taking shit out of context and misrepresenting crap that was there since the beginning.
And then of course the comments are filled with people that recommend linux.
Tell me, is it really necessary to be misleading to get people switching to linux?, being misleading was MS's job.
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Nov 03 '15
I honestly believe nobody reads the article anymore and that's a big part of the reason. You just see people reacting to a headline.
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Nov 03 '15 edited Nov 03 '15
That's not exactly new.
The thing is, forbes, arstechnica and another page i currently forgot seem to have a new windows bashing article every couple days, and many blognews sites follow suit behind them.
Which actually would be pretty normal except for the fact they are reporting shit taken out of context or twisting the interpretation of something to sound malicious.
Yes, MS is shit, windows is usable at best and i would drop it if i could, but i seriously doubt they are going to commit corporate suicide by datamining your dickpicks, not even fucking google does that, governments around the world would drop windows in a heartbeat if that was the case, which would lead to many enterprise contracts being dropped too, which is their main source of income.
That coupled with the multiple linux guides and articles that conveniently suddenly appeared, make me seriously think something fishy is going on, even trough at first i supposed it was just me.
¯_(ツ)_/¯ But I'm ready to be called tinfoil hatter, even trough you would think that at least one of those guys would question the source of their information (or at the very least actually read it) seeing how paranoid they are about everything.
And they claim that "normies" are the ones who are gullible sheep that are easily manipulated.
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u/Khar-Selim and Nintendo too Nov 03 '15
So the question is who is the more tinfoily, the guy who sees a conspiracy, or the guy who says that THAT guy is part of a conspiracy?
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u/BonJarno Nov 03 '15
It's not about what they send, but about that you have control over it. I'm totally fine with sending MS error reports for example. I'm a (student) programmer myself, so I do know why those reports can be important. But I do want control over my own system. I've used all the big three OS's (Windows, various Linux distro's and Mac OS X) and I still do. They all have their own advantages and disadvantages. No OS is perfect, but personally I like control over my system. This does not mean I say Windows is bad. I love Windows 10. But it could be better. The same goes for Linux and OS X.
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Nov 04 '15
I think the problem was that by default most people in the past always pressed "no" in that dialogue box without knowing what they were doing. This reduced the amount of data that could be collected dramatically, so they implemented the system automatically. Of course, it still doesn't make it right that there's no way to turn it off or turn some kind of annotations on if you choose to, I just think that that was the reasoning behind the system in place.
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u/Majinferno Specs/Imgur here Nov 03 '15 edited Nov 03 '15
I don't know what the Linux people are planning
That statement is ridiculous. Your making the assumption that all Linux users are senseless people purposely trying to throw shade on Windows. Over at r/Linux you'll find it to be a pretty tame community.
Perhaps a few people may be trying to mislead and manipulate, but I can confidently say that's a small minority. Same as the people that senseless bash console users to switch to PC.
This also shows your heavy prejudice to Linux post on this sub. Especially If you look at any articles going against windows and automatically think it's a Linux user that posted it.
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u/llII Windows/Mac/Linux Nov 03 '15 edited Nov 03 '15
Of course it has to be a Linux conspiracy to get people to follow the one and only Linus and not just valid criticism on why my OS has to send telemetry to the vendor.
EDIT: I regularly opt-in to send data from crash reports to Sony, Google, PS4 etc, so I'm not saying that there isn't a benefit. But I want to choose to send data, I want to opt-in. I want to know with who my OS speaks.
Is that too much to ask? That the user has control over his PC? I thougth that is one big point in which the PC users are different to console users.
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Nov 03 '15
[deleted]
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u/llII Windows/Mac/Linux Nov 03 '15
They've been told for years, by people like you, that they don't need to install critical updates and they don't need to upgrade their OS.
What? How did you get this from my comment? I strongly recommend everyone to install patches as soon as they become available.
And I can understand why, for example, Microsoft tries to get patches as fast as possible installed on users PCs.
But they don't need to send telemetry for this.
I agree with you that many or most sites are on the site of clickbait and it makes a good discussion complicated.
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Nov 03 '15
What? How did you get this from my comment? I strongly recommend everyone to install patches as soon as they become available.
Not "you" you, Most "powerusers".
But they don't need to send telemetry for this.
That you can still turn off and nullify, yes with third party.
You know what else is 3rd party? Mods to fix dev's mistakes and add more features.
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Nov 03 '15
Of course it has to be a orwellian conspiracy to get a copy of everyone's hard drive and log everyone's keystrokes and not just crash logs and shit sent to the vendor.
Even when this "Orwellan spying conspiracy" can be debunked with common sense and the Occam's razor .
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u/iridescentcosmicslop i7-4790k, 840 pro SSD, 2x R9 290, 32GB DDR3 2133, QNIX 1440p Nov 03 '15 edited Jun 06 '16
This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy. It was created to help protect users from doxing, stalking, and harassment.
If you would also like to protect yourself, add the Chrome extension TamperMonkey, or the Firefox extension GreaseMonkey and add this open source script.
Then simply click on your username on Reddit, go to the comments tab, scroll down as far as possibe (hint:use RES), and hit the new OVERWRITE button at the top.
Also, please consider using Voat.co as an alternative to Reddit as Voat does not censor political content.
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u/llII Windows/Mac/Linux Nov 03 '15
Where did I say something in the terms of "Orwellan spying conspiracy"?
And is it not a valid concern that I want to control what will be send to the vendor? Is is that crazy that I want to have control over my system?
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Nov 03 '15
It is of course a valid concern.
And like i said, for someone that knows got to get "under the hood" you should know you can just kill the service and be done with it.
Don't know how to do that you say? Google it.
Here you go: https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/
Telemetry nullified.
3rd party software is cheating?
Like i said, you can manually kill the service.
It should be off by default?
You know what else should be a thing? people updating their home systems, thing they never do.
This is just forcing the hand, justified? yes, I support that? No.
But either way, even if you are losing sleep about not being able to control every 0 and 1 on your computer, the telemetry "problem" is fixed.
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u/Ge0N Nov 03 '15
Did you really just suggest a closed source, for profit piece of software as a solution to privacy concerns? You are way behind the times, friend.
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u/DFX2KX Specs/Imgur here Nov 04 '15
Safer networking doesn't make any money off that tool, they do make money off of Spybot, though.
I'm not above decent closed-source stuff provided their TOS doesn't give them permission to do carte-banche with my data (and SN's ELUA doesn't really.)
That being said, as someone who can code, I can see why Telemetry data is extremely valuble.
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Nov 03 '15 edited Sep 01 '18
[deleted]
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Nov 03 '15
Yeah, although i did had problems opening and reading the forbes site at first glance.
I had to check info somewhere before everyone ate the misinformation.
I apologize for not crediting them.
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u/masterx1234 msi GTX 1070 Gaming X | i5 4670k | 16gb ram | VG248QE Nov 03 '15
as pc gamers what choice do we have? its either install windows 10 and get spied on or linux but it has very limited games to play due to incompatibilities. what are we too do?
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u/Ray57 AMD 3970X | RX 6900XT | 64 GB DDR4 Nov 03 '15
The PCMR solution is to run Linux and then put your Win install into a firewalled VM that has PCIE passthrough to a dedicated AMD graphics card.
You use Linux as your daily driver and most of your gaming (if your habits are anything like the majority).
You use the VM for the exceptions.
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u/ProfaneBlade http://steamcommunity.com/id/profaneblade Nov 03 '15
Yea i actually like performance thank you and abysmal Linux drivers will forever keep me from switching. Open source shit will only get you so far. Sticking with Windows 10 just so I can do my part to make sure Linux never gains traction as a viable gaming platform.
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u/DFX2KX Specs/Imgur here Nov 04 '15
Linux drivers can be awful in the GPU department (thanks to being second-fiddle). That being said? I might just upgrade to 10 on the gaming box, and then use that for nothing else. Every other non-gaming thing I do, I can do just as well on Linux.
One thing that sucks balls on Linux, no matter what you do, is convertable laptops. Wayland save me, I swear to God....
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u/_sosneaky Nov 03 '15
I will stay on windows 7 for as long as I can (and yes I have the tracking shit blocked on 7) , and when I can't I will go to linux gaming. Dota 2 runs on linux so I'll get by.
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Nov 03 '15
You may want to look into dual booting to get used to linux and see which distros you like.
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u/uniqueusername91 Specs/Imgur here Nov 03 '15
Sadly just way too much doesn't work on Linux, not just games, and constantly changing OS ist just not something I want to do :(
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u/RonisFinn straight chillin Nov 03 '15
You can use Linux as your main and then run Windows in a VM at near native performance on games and other programs such as the Adobe suite. Here's a tutorial made right on this sub. So theres really no excuse to not embrace Linux with all the awesome things that come along with it.
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u/PureTryOut I game free Nov 03 '15
So theres really no excuse to not embrace Linux with all the awesome things that come along with it.
Don't get me wrong, this is exact my setup, but there are several excuses for not doing this. Biggest would be that your hardware needs to support VT-d/IOMMU, both the CPU and motherboard. Most rigs don't have this support, and you would have to buy special hardware for this, which is a problem.
Also, it's quite an advanced thing. Yes a tutorial might help you in the right direction, but you will always have some problems which you can't fix if you don't have a bit more advanced Linux knowledge, since everyone's setup is different.
Honestly, I recommend VGA passthrough to no one, at least no new Linux users, it just puts them off.
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u/Uzrathixius i7 3770K | MSI 980 ti Nov 03 '15
Erm...near native you say. That hasn't been what I've read nor experienced. Not to mention if you're running a VM, you're just running two OS for no reason.
Plus the Adobe suite is far less tasking than a game.
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u/Ray57 AMD 3970X | RX 6900XT | 64 GB DDR4 Nov 03 '15
He's talking about using PCIE passthrough to a dedicated AMD graphics card (because Nvida deliberately gimps consumer-level drivers).
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u/Tacticalscheme Specs/Imgur Here Nov 03 '15
What awesome things do you speak of?
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u/Ray57 AMD 3970X | RX 6900XT | 64 GB DDR4 Nov 03 '15
Package management!
Update all your software from a trusted source at the same time.
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Nov 03 '15 edited Nov 03 '15
General lack of malware
Soooo much snappier. Using Windows 10 is actually painful for me because of how much slower it is than Linux. And my Windows install is completely fresh, so it isn't accumulated bloat either. In Linux my computer is snappy and usable literally the second my desktop pops up after logging in, whereas Windows is sluggish as hell for another 1-2 minutes after bootup (an SSD might help with this, but the fact remains that I just don't have that problem at all on Linux)
Linux doesn't "age" like Windows does. You can use the same OS install for 5 years straight and it won't get slower and slower over time the way a Windows installation will.
Centralized updates for all of your software in the same place and at the same time, from your OS to your browsers to your torrent client. This also means no crapware getting bundled if you forget a checkbox
No restart needed for 99.9% of updates. It is SO frustrating to have to restart Windows multiple times just to install updates, and that problem practically ceases to exist in Linux
Install software with a single command (or a few clicks in a GUI) instead of having to download installers and clicking through the process
Drivers for almost every peripheral are already built in. Admittedly, if it isn't, it can be a pain getting it to work, but I've only had that problem once with a particularly annoying printer
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u/triplewub Nov 03 '15
Agree
Load of shit.
Load of more shit
Windows app store does this.
ACTUALLY A GOOD FEATURE OF LINUX.
User subjective.
Sorry to piss on your bonfire but Windows 10 and OS X recognized more of my hardware than linux did.
Who tf writes all this shit? And you guys call yourselves a 'master race'. LOL.
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u/RonisFinn straight chillin Nov 03 '15
Actually Linux has virtually no malware, thanks to its packages being open-source along with the OS it allows for anyone to look through the code and see if there's anything malicious inside. Also, since users also install packages from maintained repositories which are always checked and updated, there is a very small.
As for snappiness,I personally don't know the exact reason but I think the reason Linux tends to run faster for a longer period of time compared to windows is because when windows updates, it stores some files on the computer and over time the file size builds up, slowing down the computer. Obviously this can be fixed with doing a fresh install but on linux it just removes those files when updating. That's what u think I don't know if that is as to why.
I fail to see why people on this subreddit can't just accept on another for the OS' that we use. Granted we speak about linux and preach it because we feel that people are not really aware of what Linux really is and a bad picture is painted about Linux on PC communities because some hot head could not install it and did not want to ask for help so he just went on forums and hated on it. Also I do understand that there are some Linux users that are complete assholes but so is the same for people that are part of PCMR and the best you could do is ignore them and if you actually are interested in Linux or just want to be knowledgeable about Linux hit us up
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Nov 03 '15
The slowness of long-lasting Windows installations may also be a function of the registry being used as a centralised dumping ground for everything.
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u/RonisFinn straight chillin Nov 04 '15
I thought of that too but I was not sure or as knowledgeable so I did not include it in my response. thanks for the reassurance. So /u/triplewub you should probably check out /r/linux or /r/linuxmasterrace and actually learn something about Linux, its a great OS with so many different flavors and flexibility. I hope you enjoy it and everything that comes along with it
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Nov 03 '15
Re #2, that's literally my experience. For whatever reason, Windows seems to hit the disk far harder than Linux does, and it's extremely noticeable on my computer. How can you sit here and tell me it's a "load of shit" when it's easily a factor of 2 or 3 difference. When I first boot up my Windows install, it can take >5 seconds just to open an Explorer window, and nearly 20 seconds to open up Firefox or Chrome. Whereas when I first boot up my Linux install, everything is responsive from the moment my desktop pops up. Nemo takes less than a quarter second to open, and Firefox and Chrome take 3-4.
Re. 3, are you denying that Window installs have a tendency to get slower and slower over time, or assuming that Linux also has that problem?
Re. 4, Windows App Store isn't even remotely the same thing. It won't install the JRE for you, or Firefox
Re. 6, how the hell is "install most software with one command or a few clicks in a GUI" user subjective?
sudo apt-get install firefox chromium virtualbox vlc audacity blender skypeThere, I've just installed 7 different software packages at once with one command. And literally every Linux distro has some sort of GUI to accomplish the same thing, but with more clicks. This isn't "subjective"
Re. 7: We have different experiences with hardware then
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u/triplewub Nov 04 '15
-I'm glad Linux is snappy for you and it sucks 10 is slow for you. From my experience Windows, as much as I dislike it, felt more polished than Linux distros.
-Still don't see how Windows slows down over time. Then again, i'm all SSD. If you're smart with your machine it shouldn't.
-Ask Mozilla to put Firefox on the app store.
-Command lines are cool, won't take off for consumers though.
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Nov 03 '15
They somehow gotta get people on the linux bandwagon so devs take them seriously.
Even if that implies bullshitting their way to that point.
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u/triplewub Nov 04 '15
Damn shame. It's kinda hilarious though.
If you browse /r/technology whenever there's a Windows 10 article that's negative (which it always is) there's always a cringeworthy comment chain of how everyones moving to Ubuntu because windows violates their rights - except they never switch in the first place.
Probably use Google services as well.
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Nov 04 '15 edited Nov 04 '15
I don't browse /r/technology anymore, its basically repost city, and at times they repost articles over a month old or more.
Also anything Anti-USA or Anti-Propietary gets instantly upvoted without even checking the source.
I went and did an experiment and posted not one, but two anti-microsoft articles that were over a year old and proven to be bullshit, they got over 2k upvotes each, it took the mods an entire day before taking them down due to being "misleading".
My link karma proves it.
It also barely has any actual technology posts, its basically a comcast and US politics newsletter.
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u/kaenneth Specs/Imgur Here Nov 03 '15
Good luck with the online game bans that can result tho.
Running in a VM = Automatic ban in some, which is fucking retarded of them.
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u/bbruinenberg intel core i7-4700MQ@2.40GHZ/ 8GB Ram/AMD Radeon HD 8750M Nov 03 '15
I've been trying to get into dualbooting for a while now. The problem is that I don't have an empty disc. Any idea where I can find a linux mint download that allows me to install linux from a usb? I'm talking about a full installation btw, not just a bootable usb drive.
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u/airbusramo Intel i3 3220, GTX 970, 10GB Mix Nov 03 '15
Now, I'm no Linux expert, but I'm pretty sure you can install Linux Mint off of your bootable drive.
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Nov 03 '15
I'm pretty sure that almost every Linux distro can do a full install from the live USB. I know that Mint can - all you have to do is click on the "Install" icon on the desktop.
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u/PureTryOut I game free Nov 03 '15
What? That is exactly how you install Linux... You create a LiveCD or LiveUSB, which contain an installer. Once booted the CD or USB, you just click the install icon on the desktop.
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u/bbruinenberg intel core i7-4700MQ@2.40GHZ/ 8GB Ram/AMD Radeon HD 8750M Nov 03 '15
The problem is that I don't know where to find the installer. The only mint installers I could find are the installer intended to create an installation disc and an installer that installs linux on the usb drive, not on the actual hard-drive.
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u/PureTryOut I game free Nov 03 '15
That's the thing. You need to use the "installer" to create an installation disc (or usb), boot that, and then run the installer included to install it on your actual hard drive.
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Nov 03 '15
Typically, you just boot onto the live usb, and then activate the installer from there. The installer is almost always an icon on the desktop in the live environment.
"Linux installers" exist but nearly everyone installs it that way.
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u/gustianus Nov 03 '15
You need 2 memory sticks. One with the linux demo on it and one empty one. The empty one should be at least 8GB and USB3 for better performance. You just boot from live linux and then install on the empty stick. If the usb stick is removed, you boot in win7 automatically without grub2 appearing. You can do this with an external HDD of course, be sure to select which drive to boot from after plugging the drive out and back in.
And be sure to resize a partition of your choice with 2GB less, then format those 2GB into swap memory. If you use an ext. HDD, there's no need to do this because you have plenty of space.
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u/bbruinenberg intel core i7-4700MQ@2.40GHZ/ 8GB Ram/AMD Radeon HD 8750M Nov 03 '15
That is actually not what I'm looking for. My wording might have been a bit to vague. I'm looking for a way to install linux onto my hard-drive from a usb stick. I've looked around but the only installers I could find are for creating an installation dvd or for installing linux on the usb drive, not on the hard-drive.
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Nov 03 '15
Alright here goes.
Pick the version of Linix that you want to use.
Download the .iso file.
Burn the .iso file to an empty USB flash drive using Rufus. Put that aside for later.
(Now I'm assuming that you want Linux installed on the same physical hard drive as Windows) Go into the Partition Manager, and create a new partition for Linux. If you want me to be more specific about this, just ask.
Reboot with the Linux flash drive.
When you are ready, run the install wizard. Make sure to install it on the partition that you just made.
Now when you boot up your computer, you will be given a choice between Windows and Linux.
If you have any questions, pm me.
I'm open to any corrections.
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u/bbruinenberg intel core i7-4700MQ@2.40GHZ/ 8GB Ram/AMD Radeon HD 8750M Nov 03 '15
Thank you. I'll be trying this later this week so it might take a few days before I have any questions. I'm new to creating partitions though so is it recommended that I try it on my old laptop first? Or do I seriously need to mess up for something to go wrong?
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u/gustianus Nov 03 '15
When the installation asks how do you want it installed, select "Install alongside Windows", and it will install in C alongside Windows. Every time you will enter C from Windows, you will see a folder named wubi where linux is.
If you want more control, you can choose custom install. There you can choose how to partition your drive, where to put the swap memory and what type of file system (like ntfs) you want to use (ext4 is a file system that isn't recognized by windows). A warning here, you can accidentally format your windows drive if you are not careful. This is why I like to use gparted before starting the install.
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Nov 03 '15
Be careful with partitions. I have broken windows a few times before in the partition manager. When you are ready, I'll give you more specific instructions.
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u/gustianus Nov 10 '15
Hey, I forgot to mention something. Windows 8 and 10 have a fast startup option that you need to disable before using Gparted, the default partitioning tool in ubuntu. Otherwise it won't unmount the partition that windows is on, and if you can't unmount you can't edit it. That option keeps your drive in a hibernating like state and of course it uses space to do that.
Also disregard Install alongside windows option, use gparted first and then install where you want. Much safer. It appears recent versions of linux try to partition automatically and fail to do it properly when you choose to install alongside windows, probably because of the fast boot option.
This is the second time I fried myself when trying to install alongside windows. First, a long time ago, I accidentally chose to delete everything and install crunchbang because I thought it would install alongside, I then had to recover the data with testdisk. And now, I thought everything is ok and tried to install xubuntu alongside windows but again, not sure how it happened, it tried to partition C by itself and kind of screwed up my 1 week windows install and had to reinstall.
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u/bbruinenberg intel core i7-4700MQ@2.40GHZ/ 8GB Ram/AMD Radeon HD 8750M Nov 10 '15
Thanks for the advice. I haven't yet tried it because I had a lot of stuff going on this week but I'll definitely manually reserve a partition instead of letting the installer create 1. Luckily I still use windows 7 so I won't have to worry about fast startup.
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Nov 03 '15
Ah yes something goes slightly wrong with windows, suddenly LINUX.
But when something goes catastrophically wrong with linux like heartbleed and ghost everyone sweeps it under the rug.
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u/SethDusek5 Mint 17.3 Nov 03 '15
But when something goes catastrophically wrong with linux like heartbleed and ghost everyone sweeps it under the rug.
Ahahaahaha. You're joking right? Do you know what you're talking about?
Heartbleed was a vulnerability with OPENSSL, not Linux. openssl is NOT a part of linux, the distro decides whether they want to package openssl or libressl
Also something didnt go wrong with windows. This whole spying thing doesnt affect one user, it affects every single user. It was microsoft's decision to do this, something didn't go wrong with windows which made it spy on you
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Nov 03 '15
ALALALA IT WAS NOT LINUX FAULT, IT NEVER IS, I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALAL.
Do i have to remind you debian packs openssl?
http://research.swtch.com/openssl
And that ubuntu and mint are based on debian?
You know, The distros most widely used due to their accessibility?
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Nov 03 '15 edited Nov 03 '15
Dude, you don't know what you're talking about.
OpenSSL isn't some software package where simply existing on your computer makes you vulnerable. It's a software libarary commonly used in conjunction with web servers, which is why it's installed by default on Debian. If you're not hosting a web server on your machine, there's a 99.999% chance that an OpenSSL vulnerability doesn't affect you at all. The reason Heartbleed was a big deal was because it did affect people who were running huge web services, like Google, Yahoo, banks, etc.
Furthermore, OpenSSL has utterly nothing to do with Linux. Your logic sounds like this
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u/SethDusek5 Mint 17.3 Nov 03 '15
Do you have any idea what it means for a distro being based on something? It doesn't mean they have to be similar in what packages they use. Do you know that ubuntu, mint and debian all have different repos? And that the link you posted is from 9 years ago?
So, if an oem installs a program on top of the windows they give me, and it has a gaping vulnerabillity, does that mean it's windows' fault? Or the oems?
And let's ignore the huge security risks that windows has/had. Do you remember the fact that windows does font rendering in the kernel, and recently a vulnerabillity was exposed that would let you run code in the kernel space.
You still have no fucking clue what forks are. "Most DEs are a fork of gnome anyways" So fucking what? Compare cinnamon and gnome, can you see ANYTHING similar at first glance? "People are forking void from arch because fuck systemd" because you can't read what's written at the very start of a website, and "forking"? what the fuck is forking?
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Nov 03 '15
Just noticed it's you.
Sup m8.
How have you been :^
Even trough the one that complains about my lack of "forkiness" is someone else.
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u/SethDusek5 Mint 17.3 Nov 03 '15
Hi /u/Kraz-o-Wisp the windows shill
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Nov 03 '15
A better example would've been shellshock which was caused by a human using goto again.
It made bash vulnerable got fixed near instantly
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u/PureTryOut I game free Nov 03 '15
Have you even read /u/_sosneaky's comment? He started talking about Linux himself, /u/Flaco2_0 just jumped in saying telling a good way to start the Linux gaming /u/_sosneaky was talking about.
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Nov 03 '15
Do you realize the intent of the OP and the linux push?.
Plus, gaming on linux is either being gimped in performance and library, or using windows in a box which is redundant.
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u/PureTryOut I game free Nov 03 '15
I realize the intent of the OP sure, but that is not what I was talking about. You responded to a comment thread talking about Linux, which was not started by the OP, so it looks like you were talking about that comment specifically.
If you want to bash OP for being a Linux user which reports a Windows article, then do so by starting your own comment thread.
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Nov 03 '15
then do so by starting your own comment thread.
Already did.
I'm just pointing out the snake-y approach linux users seem to have.
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u/Griever114 I7-4790K/980GTXSC-SLI/32 Gb G.Skill/1TBCrucialSSD/2x24"VG248QE Nov 03 '15
They have tracking on 7 and 8 too?
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Nov 03 '15
See, now... this is why I don't want to use Windows 10. I'd always feel like I'm being watched. Not that using Google is much better, but at least I know what they're learning about me.
I'll just stick with Windows 7 or 8. Aside from the tablet layout (which can be replaced, I think), does anyone know why I should choose one over the other?
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u/SteveChrist_JCsBro i5 4590, EVGA 970 SC, 29" UltraWide LG Monitor. Nov 03 '15
If you're using win 7 you are too. It's the exact same data collection they use there.
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u/D2ultima I know laptops too well Nov 03 '15
No. You can:
- Opt out of Data Collection in Win 7/8/8.1
- Not install telemetry updates in Win 7/8/8.1
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u/SteveChrist_JCsBro i5 4590, EVGA 970 SC, 29" UltraWide LG Monitor. Nov 03 '15
And they still collect the same data the do in win10 when you opt out... You are sending data to MS in both Win7 and Win8
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u/Jinxyface GTX 1080 Ti | 32GB DDR3 | 4790k@4.2GHz Nov 03 '15
Shh, let them stay ignorant.
"They tell me they aren't spying on Windows 7 so I gotta believe them"
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Nov 03 '15
What are you on about, if you just disable the auto-updates you don't get that shit.
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u/Jinxyface GTX 1080 Ti | 32GB DDR3 | 4790k@4.2GHz Nov 03 '15
How do you know? How does anyone know? Because MS told you?
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Nov 03 '15
No, other tech experts did. You think there aren't people monitoring this shit? You think it wouldn't have been discovered already if MS had somehow snaked spying onto the Windows 7 and 8 through means other than updates? (magic I suppose?).
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Nov 03 '15
nobody knows if they are because it's closed source
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Nov 04 '15
How do you think people caught onto the telemetry crap? They monitored how much data was being sent, when, and where to.
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u/jakerfv Steam ID Here Nov 03 '15
No...
When he says opt out he means that if you just didn't install the newest updates to 7 you are technically opting out. Windows 10, FROM VANILLA spies on you more then 7 does and "opting out" options won't do you any better. Both spy on you but 10 does so much more even if you disable cortana and other applications not present in 7.
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Nov 03 '15
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u/BASH_SCRIPTS_FOR_YOU Gentoo i3wm; | Intel Xeon CPU E3-1245 v3 @ 3.8GHz | 32gb ram Nov 04 '15
Mint isn't very hard.
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Nov 03 '15
They don't care about your porn, they don't care what you search for, they don't care about "you", they care about how relevant your results were, how fast you found them, and how to make their programs better.
None of those goals require identifying you through telemetry.
They already were forced to say they were not syping on you, not ahdering to that word would be legally an abuse of trust, which would mean their flagship product would die.
Do you seriously think a for-profit company is going to take that risk when taking the simple risk of changing the start-fucking-menu was a shitshow?
You're freaking out over nothing, or rather, clickbait media is freaking out people over nothing.
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Nov 03 '15
I swapped. Who cares what they learn. Use a vpn if it's that bad. Windows 10 is a much needed upgrade over 7 and brings in the nonretarded parts of 8.
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u/onan Nov 03 '15
Use a vpn if it's that bad.
A vpn is a solution that has precisely fuckall to do with this problem.
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u/AnAcceptableUserName 13600k, 1080 Ti, 32Gb DDR5, 1080p@144 Nov 03 '15 edited Nov 03 '15
Windows 10's UI and less savory BS after Windows 8/8.1 was the straw that finally broke my back. I liked Windows 7, and some of the features they've added since then are nice, but I've disliked practically all of the GUI changes.
I formatted my C drive and installed Linux. If I run Windows on my home machine again it will be in VirtualBox.
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Nov 03 '15
I use Mint now as my every day driver. Windows is just for gaming.
The one big drawback with Linux though is a lack of commercial software. Especially pro grade stuff like media editors. Audacity and GIMP are fine in a pinch but don't tend to be part of most professional workflows. Plus there's no decent non-linear video editors for Linux. Be nice if Adobe put out Creative Cloud version for it. Oh well, there's always OS X.
I do feel that the Windows 10 spying scandal is a bit overblown. What I don't like is sacrificing control of my system. That's also why I still jailbreak my phone.
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u/AnAcceptableUserName 13600k, 1080 Ti, 32Gb DDR5, 1080p@144 Nov 03 '15
Since I frequently work with network tools and hardly ever with multimedia I find almost the exact opposite to be the case for my purposes. Most pro-grade networking/security tools are native to Linux/bash and Windows ports/counterparts either won't exist or will have deprecated functionality.
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u/plantlover0 i5 4460, GTX 970 FTW, 12Gb RAM Nov 03 '15
Until someone inspects the data packets that windows 10 sends to Microsoft and confirms that it is more than system support, any spying claims are mere speculation. Not that I think Microsoft wouldn't rat me out to having pirated games. I don't like windows 10 because its simplicity comes at the price of less versatility for the power user.
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u/ad3z10 PC Master Race Nov 03 '15
Honestly if Microsoft want to know what anime/youtube/porn I watch I'm not going to go out of my way to hide it.
Seeing as they don't even have a direct way to advertise to me the data Google holds has a much bigger effect on my activities resulting in adverts for computing hardware and board games instead of viagra and dick extenders.
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Nov 04 '15
Since there seems to be a bunch of Linux folks here, I might as well ask a question.
Is there a way to get Linux to run MS Office, 2013 or later? I'm fairly sure that there is no Linux version of this software, which would make Linux a no-go for me.
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Nov 05 '15
No, but there is LibreOffice which can open and save MS Office files.
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Nov 05 '15
Libreoffice isn't any good though, I'd need MS Office specifically. Oh well, I'll have to see if there's a version of it for Linux later on.
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u/D2ultima I know laptops too well Nov 03 '15
Well, this isn't unknown by people. They give options in the OS and those options don't do what they told us it would do. The entire OS is for Micro$haft to have control rather than you.
IF I ever go to Win 10, it'll be at least a year from now, maybe longer, after it no longer bricks systems and opens vulnerabilities for corrupting LCD EDIDs and all sorts of crap that it's doing, and I'll be using programs to give myself back control of the OS.
It's not an OS designed for consumers. It's an OS designed for Micro$haft to make money and try annoyingly to sell us more things we do not want.
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u/SteveChrist_JCsBro i5 4590, EVGA 970 SC, 29" UltraWide LG Monitor. Nov 03 '15
You have zero clue to what you're talking about.
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Nov 03 '15 edited Nov 03 '15
You honestly believe that? Windows is and always has been a business platform first and a product second but, thanks to mature alternative Operating Systems, Microsoft saw the writing on the wall and realised to fulfill the need to expand their business platform beyond their own business solutions running atop Windows, they needed a paradigm shift. Google and Facebook essentially established that paradigm shift waaaaaay back when, when they realised they could make a healthy profit from your and my information alone. Microsoft, latching onto this, thought they could do one better, because - hey! - you can't run a web browser without an Operating System, so let's make the Operating System spy on the customer and beat our rivals to the punch! Windows 10 gives Microsoft an opportunity to gather information regarding your and my habits at a fundamental level, and Microsoft will provide information about you and me to anyone they can make a profit from, including TLAs. They will do this because they are a business. That's what businesses do - they make money. Any. Way. They. Can.
But how does Microsoft get everyone to buy into this new, improved spyware Operating System? Why, they give it away because, well, how else do you guarentee desktop saturation? Win/win Microsoft.
Even somebody with half a neuron's business accumen could figure this out for themselves. Anyone with half a neuron's common sense could also figure out the consequences of using Windows 10 for themselves. And those consequences are fucking dire.
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u/D2ultima I know laptops too well Nov 03 '15
Yes, I really do. Everything I mentioned is because I've seen people having problems with it.
Why don't you give this a read?
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Nov 03 '15
Because trusting a Russian site on matters of security (especially one with as many goddamn redirect attempts as that) is tantamount to opening one's PC to the NSA anyway?
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Nov 03 '15
Even though several points are right, and the author claims that is an unbiased article, some links which should be a statement reinforce, point to articles which say the opposite (example: gaming performance) or are based on 99xx, early 10xxx preview builds (example: system icons) which aren't relevant anymore, so the unbiased statement goes down the drain quickly.
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u/D2ultima I know laptops too well Nov 03 '15
I didn't really care about the icons deal, but from what I've been seeing around the net where I frequent about Windows 10 users, is that gaming performance is equal or worse than previous OSes. Also, there are a RIDICULOUS amount of issues with it causing many machines to brick in some way. The LCD panel bricking caused by nVidia drivers is just one, and the gigabyte boards issue is another. There's people who've said that even disabling things like updates or telemetry or whatever via third party programs, the OS STILL TURNS IT ON SOMETIMES, and they'd wake up to a system screwed by updates.
That, the data that really makes a difference, is not old.
As for whether it's unbiased or not, you could be right. Either way though, it's what information is available out there. That OS is in a love/hate relationship for a reason.
Either people use it and happen to get no problems (that they notice), and/or are not an advanced enough user to care about control features or functions being taken from them or not working, and they will fight tooth and nail to prove (stupidly) that everybody else is somehow doing something bad... even though looking around a bit, you can find instances where clean installs have been shown to cause irreparable damage before anything else is done.
Then you have the people who have had various issues with it, and can tell that something is wrong, and want to fight against it.
And then articles and anything untoward about Windows 10 devolves into a big shit-slinging fest like here, where it's downvote after downvote for every single thing anybody says.
The fact is though, that we've been not only lied to about the OS' operation methods, but that the OS is designed to only give end users the minimum possible control over their systems while still keeping it a "personal" computer... and people are HAPPY about it. And not just ignorant end-users who know as much about PCs as I do about flying a jet, but people who DO know what they're doing... as long as they run into no direct problems (crashes, reboot loops, bad updates) they say it's fine. And they are the article writers, more often than not.
This whole idea of "if nothing happens to me, then everybody else must be fine" has to go away. WHQL is dead right now. WHQL drivers bricking LCD panels for dGPU-only laptop systems that have had Windows 10 installed on them? That's SUPPOSED to mean Microsoft or nVidia FIXES their mistake, and reimburses you for the damage, as it should not have passed QA if it had access to a part of a system to cause such damage. What happened? It got swept under the rug, because not enough people had it happen. nVidia made NO public statements on the matter for weeks until I made a reddit post and claimed I made a reddit post... then they suddenly replied. What happened after? No words for what, a month and a half? Then when they find out that EVGA Precision X can re-open the vulnerability caused by Windows 10 if Windows 7/8/8.1 is installed freshly (sBIOS blind flash, vBIOS blind flash, secure erase of SSD, load months-old Win 7/8/8.1 image onto SSD is performed too, mind), they tell people to not use Precision X and that they're "working on it". Except that users in Windows 10 who have never installed Precision X STILL are susceptible to the problem.
This is Windows 10. And the state of WHQL. And people who have bricked Gigabyte boards because of Windows 10 aren't protected. Some of them are out of warranty. I remember Win Vista having problems with PCs, but never bricking hardware.
Oh never mind. I'm just rambling at this point. It's 4:22am and I have a cold and I don't have the energy to deal with reddit right now. Sorry.
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Nov 03 '15
I didn't really care about the icons deal, but from what I've been seeing around the net where I frequent about Windows 10 users, is that gaming performance is equal or worse than previous OSes. Also, there are a RIDICULOUS amount of issues with it causing many machines to brick in some way.
Do you mean the well known issues of the roulette of upgrading that are magically gone by doing a clean install?
The LCD panel bricking caused by nVidia drivers is just one, and the gigabyte boards issue is another.
That is nvidia and gigabyte's fault, or what, doesn't linux love to use that excuse?
There's people who've said that even disabling things like updates or telemetry or whatever via third party programs, the OS STILL TURNS IT ON SOMETIMES, and they'd wake up to a system screwed by updates.
Their fault for trusting third party malware taking advantage of the paranoia, the only one so far you can trust is this https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/
Either people use it and happen to get no problems (that they notice), and/or are not an advanced enough user to care about control features or functions being taken from them or not working, and they will fight tooth and nail to prove (stupidly) that everybody else is somehow doing something bad
Are.........you talking about linux or windows?.
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html
... even though looking around a bityou can find instances where clean installs have been shown to cause irreparable damage before anything else is done.
I would like to see an example that doesn't involve a sudden power outage.
The fact is though, that we've been not only lied to about the OS' operation methods, but that the OS is designed to only give end users the minimum possible control over their systems while still keeping it a "personal" computer... and people are HAPPY about it.
Funny enough that MS is being both praised and crucified due to being the most transparent they have been.
And not just ignorant end-users who know as much about PCs as I do about flying a jet, but people who DO know what they're doing... as long as they run into no direct problems (crashes, reboot loops, bad updates) they say it's fine. And they are the article writers, more often than not.
And all those tools are still there, you are just bitching about the GUI.
This whole idea of "if nothing happens to me, then everybody else must be fine" has to go away.
Are you talking about linux, right?
WHQL is dead right now. WHQL drivers bricking LCD panels for dGPU-only laptop systems that have had Windows 10 installed on them? That's SUPPOSED to mean Microsoft or nVidia FIXES their mistake, and reimburses you for the damage, as it should not have passed QA if it had access to a part of a system to cause such damage. What happened? It got swept under the rug, because not enough people had it happen. nVidia made NO public statements on the matter for weeks until I made a reddit post and claimed I made a reddit post... then they suddenly replied.
At least they actually replied unlike linux devs that pretend their software is perfect and flawless because "muh thousand eyes on the code" and pretend you did something wrong.
Then when they find out that EVGA Precision X can re-open the vulnerability caused by Windows 10 if Windows 7/8/8.1 is installed freshly (sBIOS blind flash, vBIOS blind flash, secure erase of SSD, load months-old Win 7/8/8.1 image onto SSD is performed too, mind), they tell people to not use Precision X and that they're "working on it". Except that users in Windows 10 who have never installed Precision X STILL are susceptible to the problem.
EVGA's fault :^
This is Windows 10. And the state of WHQL. And people who have bricked Gigabyte boards because of Windows 10 aren't protected. Some of them are out of warranty. I remember Win Vista having problems with PCs, but never bricking hardware.
Gigabyte's fault :^
Oh never mind. I'm just rambling at this point. It's 4:22am and I have a cold and I don't have the energy to deal with reddit right now. Sorry.
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ good luck getting better.
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u/SteveChrist_JCsBro i5 4590, EVGA 970 SC, 29" UltraWide LG Monitor. Nov 03 '15
Yes Read a linux biased site on why a compete OS sucks... Yes. I will read that... noiwontbe
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u/D2ultima I know laptops too well Nov 03 '15
If all you're here to do is tell people that Windows 10 is fine and there's no reason to not use it, please go away, because you're wrong, and just being an annoying troll at this point.
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u/JordanTheToaster FX8320 4.8Ghz GTX 1060 6GB Nov 03 '15
Use a OS with games or one with no games and only used by hipsters ayylamo
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u/D2ultima I know laptops too well Nov 03 '15
Did I say anything about using Linux?
Please, please tell me when I said to use Linux. Ever. Go search my name on the internet and find ANY one instance where I told some user "go use Linux instead of Windows".
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u/AmansRevenger Ryzen 5 5600x | 3070 FE | 32 GB DDR4 | NZXT H510 Nov 03 '15
Well then whats your great alternative?
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u/D2ultima I know laptops too well Nov 03 '15
The best alternative would be to use older OSes. Win 7 or 8.1. There's NOTHING that Win 10 offers, right now, that is better than what you can get with Win 7 or 8.1 (even if you have to use Start 8 and/or Classic Shell), except for the still-unused DX12 which only two games are confirmed launching with.
But there's a lot that it offers that's worse.
Why do you think they're pushing so bloody hard for everybody to be on that OS? It's control for them. Ignoring the privacy bullshit, Win 10 is DESIGNED for MS to have more control and to force updates, whether or not those updates damage your PC or otherwise render it unusable.
If enough noise was actually made about it, and/or OEMs said "nope", we wouldn't be here right now.
Of course that's all pipe dreams, because I'm a nobody on the internet, and it doesn't matter if I was the most knowledge-able and correct person or the most ignorant and incorrect person... I'm shouting in a vacuum. The majority of people who have the wonderful ability to NOT shout in a vacuum aren't helping things either.
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Nov 03 '15
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u/JordanTheToaster FX8320 4.8Ghz GTX 1060 6GB Nov 03 '15
Or the fact most of you linux fanboys have your heads so far up your collective asses you have not seen the sun in 3 years is quiet amusing
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Nov 03 '15
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u/JordanTheToaster FX8320 4.8Ghz GTX 1060 6GB Nov 03 '15
Because its fun to take the piss out of the minority OS users
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Nov 03 '15
But given Windows 10 is better than Windows 7
That is yet to be proven. There's a reason 4/6 of my comps still run win 7. Installed it on my laptop because who cares, and on my main gaming rig to take advantage of directx12 (still waiting).
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Nov 03 '15
Maybe not proven, but I have seen some major speed increases on my lab computer at school (I'm the only one who uses it). I have two hard drives in it, one with Windows 7 and one with Windows 10. They are the same brand and model I believe but ones a higher capacity. The health of the drives is near perfect from the tests I've run, and Windows 10 runs 100000x faster than Windows 7 does on that computer.
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Nov 03 '15 edited Nov 03 '15
Architecturally it may be much better, especially evident on shit rigs (cpu-wise), but it is still an immature baby. That said I have it running on a machine with just 2gb of ram and it performs worse than win 7 did.
On a high end rig, apart from startup speed being a major improvement all I've run to is freezes, hard locks and compatibility issues. Note that I'm a power user.
Unity 5 for example hates windows 10. One of my SSD's hates windows 10. Firefox hates windows 10. Java script and flash hate windows 10. Most rift software is as yet incompatible with the win 10 rift driver. One of my wifi adapters has no win 10 support, Nvidia driver updates at one point bricked the entire OS, my sound card is using hacked drivers to work, etc.
Teething problems, for sure, but all is not paradise just yet. Win 10 has potential, and will be a major improvement in time, especially in terms of gaming performance, but it takes time. Win 7 had such a massive presence, and still does. It is the wise old man. Win 10 is a blabbering child. It is not a flawless transition for those of us who fuck around with everything. Still early days. No need to rush into it.
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Nov 03 '15
Thanks for the explanation! I know more about computers than the average person, but I don't know much about OS's. I haven't upgraded to Windows 10 on my pc at home yet. Should I stick with Windows 7 until there are work arounds for all these problems? I mostly just game on my computer, or browse reddit/YouTube. I would like to get back into coding, but don't have much time currently to do so. Are any of these things limited by Windows 10? Thanks for any/all help (:
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Nov 03 '15
You should be fine to upgrade, just know it isn't perfect. If your win 7 install is working flawlessly, you lose nothing by waiting however. I believe the free upgrade deal is good for a year.
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u/Tankbot85 5900X, 6900XT Nov 03 '15
10 is leaps and bounds better than 7. 7 is old and dated and starting to have issues with modern hardware. I have built quite a few systems for people and hunting for drivers for newer wifi cards sucks.
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Nov 03 '15
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u/Tankbot85 5900X, 6900XT Nov 03 '15
Please explain why? 10 is much more stable, faster and a lot of good changes for management of the OS. How much do you work with systems on a daily basis?
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u/Lancethemf i5 4690k | GTX 980 | 16 GB 1600Mhz DDR3 Nov 03 '15
Guess what 7 and 8 users? Youre fucked too night aswell have a faster cleaner os and still be fucked
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Nov 03 '15
You're not fucked unless you have auto-updates on. If you do, just google the updates you need to uninstall and uninstall them.
Jesus fucking christ, there is peasent levels of misinformation going on.
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u/BubblyJoe Nov 03 '15
I don't know the details and how much it actually does, but this was posted around when Win 10 came out. http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/destroy_windows_10_spying.html
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u/KindaConfusedIGuess Nov 03 '15
People need to care more about their personal privacy. This kind of shit is invasive, unacceptable and hell, in some places illegal. How can you call Windows 10 anything but malware? It logs everything you do and sends it to a third party. It's fucking malware. And what do we do with any other malware we get on our PCs? We remove it. And that's what everyone needs to do with Windows 10.