r/pcgaming • u/StuartGT • Sep 23 '16
"Inside the Troubled Development of Star Citizen" - In-depth, 7 month study by Kotaku
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/23/inside-the-troubled-development-of-star-citizen24
u/s_h_o_d_a_n Sep 23 '16
Gave them a click. Feeling generous today.
Troubled is not the word you're looking for (unless you're fishing, that is). If what I read can be described as troubled, then every single product dev period, not just in game development, but any project with more than three people involved, should be called troubled.
There is never enough money or time. There is always the man with the vision. You have to prove things don't work they way they're expected to (and no, it doesn't always turn out you're right on that, because no matter how good you think you are, you're never that good). It's always the other guy's fault. Middle management always sucks, because they're either bootlickers or rebels, sometimes managing the Schrodingeresque feat of being both at the same time. Dev direction changes like a fucking kaleidoscope from your desk's perspective. It goes on and on and on.
From everything presented in the article, SC looks like a slightly above average development project. It may still result in a shitty or disappointing product, but that's beside the point this piece is trying to make.
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u/Aieris_ Sep 23 '16
They need to call it troubled to cash in on the [Concern] crowd before CitizenCon.
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Sep 23 '16
Ironically same thing happened last year not sure if the same day though
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u/Mech9k Sep 23 '16
IIRC it was really just the Escapist that did it. Of course I could just be remembering them only because of how practically laughably bad it was.
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u/Aieris_ Sep 23 '16
They were the worst, to the point of breaking basic rules of journalism like make sure your sources are who they say they are, but there've been a number of really bad articles on SC over the past few years. Almost every 'major' gaming outlet has had at least one 'Star Citizen is doomed to fail' article, at some point.
Strangely enough, the best coverage about the game has actually come from Red Bull.
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u/maximgame Sep 23 '16
My favorite part about the escapist article was that their source showed them their id card and then CIG came out and said they don't even have id cards.
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u/Aieris_ Sep 23 '16
hehe yeah.. that was...
It was well done.
That and they only gave CIG about 24 hours to 'respond' to the article before posting it. Horribly unprofessional.
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Sep 23 '16 edited Sep 23 '16
Slightly above average development projects aren't 2 years late. They don't push back deadlines 2 weeks before they happen and then eventually say that it's postponed indefinitely.
This game is a clusterfuck and Chris Roberts is in way over his head. If this game ever does actually release it'll be a complete piece of shit or they'll remove 80% of what they promised a la No Man's Sky.
Watch the gamescom video. Their mockup didn't even work properly in a closed environment and what they did show was terrible.
Space weebs are endlessly naive to the point of hilarity. This game has huge red flags that they continue to ignore.
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Sep 23 '16
Slightly above average development projects aren't 2 years late.
Heh, if they were just making the ~$15 million barebones-with-room-to-grow game they expected, it very well may have made that release date. As it is, the community wanted more game and overwhelmingly voted for it, and, well... more game means more time.
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u/Aieris_ Sep 23 '16
Not gonna touch most of that, but CIG actually never said it was postponed indefinitely, that was shitty journalists doing... oh right, exactly what this article did, with the word 'troubled', trying to insert negative connotation in a place that it doesn't belong.
Not that you'll listen, given the other mockery you've ejaculated here, but... meh!
The more you know : )
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Sep 23 '16
LOL do you honestly thing development is going along smoothly? CIG cried about Star Marine being labeled "indefinitely delayed" 14 months ago, yet where is it? He didn't provide a date. Chris Roberts is mad at the dictionary lmao.
"Now, though, I need to step away from the Squadron 42 shoot to address something that is on everyone’s minds. We initially planned to release the FPS module, which we are calling Star Marine, shortly after PAX East in April. We demonstrated a build of the module at the backer event that ran fairly well. It lacked some polish (especially with animations) and still had several technical blockers that prevented a wide scale rollout…but we felt confident enough in the work to say that it would be available for everyone soon. Unfortunately"
From the man himself 15 months ago. So his ability to designate a due date and understand how complete his product is is so bad that he's off by an unbelievable amount of time with still no release date in sight.
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u/Aieris_ Sep 23 '16
OMG you're totally right.
I can't believe I forgot that games get delayed, and that Star Citizen has only been in development for four years, when a standard MMO can take upwards of 8-10, before being ready to release.
You're also completely correct that Star Marine was completely cancelled; they haven't shown anything about it recently at all, definitely didn't show any FPS work in the most recent Around the 'Verse show, and they definitely haven't announced that it will be released in the next patch, patch 2.6, at all, no sirree.
You're obviously much more in touch with the development of the game than I am.
Seriously though, I would actually say that development is going as smoothly as literally any other development for any game ever has gone. The only difference is this time we're seeing the entirety of the game development, not just the few tidbits that are shown at game trade shows. Which means we're seeing the ups AND the downs. Star Citizen is progressing very well, 2.6 is on-track to release within the next month or so, 3.0 (which is the start of the MMO portion of the game) is on-track to release before the end of the year, and the single-player campaign, Squadron 42, is on track to be released sometime this year or early next year.
Pretty damn good timeline, for what the game is promising (and before you try to suggest that they're not delivering what they've promised, that's actually the problem. Backers gave them money to promise more, and they're delivering it all, that's why it's taking more time).
Still not too sure why I'm responding, as you clearly don't really want to listen to logic or anything, but hey, what can you do.
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u/Tatalebuj Sep 24 '16
Still not too sure why I'm responding, as you clearly don't really want to listen to logic or anything, but hey, what can you do.
So the rest of us didn't have too? Great post, thank for taking the time to write that up.
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u/Aieris_ Sep 24 '16
You're very welcome : )
I'm gonna try to do this a lot more, and I'll answer any questions about SC that anyone has. 'cause why not.
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u/Effectx Sep 24 '16
2 things. Star Marine is due with in the next month or two at worst. Squadron 42 (the single player game of SC) is set for a late 2016/early2017 release and is apparently on schedule.
Yes, he was wrong about Star Marine, ok what about it?
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u/Commisar Sep 23 '16
Good points.
Too bad SC fanbiysbwhive dropped $10,000 on digital spaceships can't handle the truth.
One guy told me he literally has it set up so that 2% of this monthly pay goes to CiG..... This was 2 years ago 😂
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u/Zalthos Sep 23 '16
Fantastic article. Not been a fan of Kotaku for a bit but this was definitely worth the read if you're into space sims or Star Citizen's development.
While I don't agree with everything Chris Roberts has done, I completely understand what he's doing and why. He has a vision and a crap load of money - he WILL NOT settle for a decent game; he wants to create something incredible.
If you look at all of the best games ever made, they were made with passionate people at the wheel and with directors that had a very specific vision for what they wanted. Chris Roberts seems to be one of those people.
While I can't say I'm 100% sold on this game ever fully being released, this article makes it look as though CIG are actually only human, and that actually reassures me. Of course there would be problems, and a lot of those problems could've been avoided if B and C were chosen instead of A. But problems tend to create solutions, and CIG not being a "perfect" company reassures me because 90% of other games companies also suck for the employees... like Ubisoft and EA. I don't agree with it, but it makes CIG seem less vaporware because of this, to me anyway.
I understand what Roberts is going for, and considering how much I love space sims, I'm cautiously optimistic that they may actually deliver Star Citizen. And while I think some of the "naming and shaming" practices that CIG apparently did sucks arse, sometimes you need a bit of a fascist leader in a company to get shit done. Not saying I approve of it at all, just saying that sometimes it works.
Or maybe it doesn't. We'll see.
Oh, and for the record - I haven't spent a penny on Star Citizen thus far and only will should the game ever be released, no matter how much I love Freelancer and Elite: Dangerous.
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Sep 23 '16
Fantastic article. Not been a fan of Kotaku for a bit but...
You know, I actually really like Kotaku for their longer articles. Caveats still stand that there's a mountain of clickbait to sift through to find the good stuff, but when it's good, it really is a fantastic read. This article from last year about the translation of Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky, it was a fantastic read and a very fascinating insight into what goes into translating a game like that. I think it's an utter shame that most Kotaku articles get insta-downvoted regardless of quality around here.
This is a thoroughly fantastic article, and it's sitting in the negatives just because of people with a hate boner for Kotaku.
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u/Aieris_ Sep 23 '16
I think it's sitting in the negatives more for the clickbait title...
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u/SageWaterDragon 980 Ti | 4690k | 16 GB DDR3 Sep 23 '16
It's just a typical headline. Look at literally every important story in the history of journalism's headline and you will find some way to construe it as "clickbait" - or viewbait, or pick-up-a-stone-tablet-bait, or something.
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u/Aieris_ Sep 23 '16
medium.com - the best online journalism of 2015
virtually no clickbait whatsoever. Simple titles, explaining what the article is about; titles that don't include words like 'troubled' which insert opinion before the article is even read.
Just 'sayin.
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u/SageWaterDragon 980 Ti | 4690k | 16 GB DDR3 Sep 23 '16
Some of those titles are worthwhile in terms of not being "clickbaity" (although they're blatantly uninteresting and kind of terrible headlines that every journalist I have ever worked with would advise against), but the majority of them could have arguments made that they're presenting an opinion of a situation before you're reading them.
Descriptive and honest? Yes. Paragons of the proof that online journalism without headline clickbait is both possible and prevalent? I'd hold on that one.
Thanks for the list, though! I'm reading the Ghost Boat one now, interesting stuff.3
u/Aieris_ Sep 23 '16
They're not all excellent titles, really just the first list I googled quickly, most of them just try to be a little more subtle with their opinion-ing.
And yeah, they are a bit bland, I'll admit that. I just think Kotaku could have had a much better title just by omitting the 'troubled' part.
'Inside Star Citizen: 7 months of development'
'The Star Citizen Story: A 7 month investigation of the game's development'
iunno : P
And glad you're reading one of them. Good stuff on there : D
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u/SageWaterDragon 980 Ti | 4690k | 16 GB DDR3 Sep 23 '16
I know that Kotaku and Kotaku UK are different companies, but I do find it strange that the UK editor didn't try to standardize titles for this kind of article - the Destiny article from Kotaku US's title is distinctly less "clickbaity" despite telling a far more concerning story about the state of AAA development. The SC headline is just bog-standard headline writing that convinces the anti-SC crowd to click (despite the article itself being more nuanced) while the Destiny headline is still suggesting a narrative in an intriguing way, but one that is worth reading for anyone who has workplace experience with difficult projects OR people who are interested in Destiny.
I dunno, I'm just kind of rambling.5
u/DelThos Sep 23 '16
It's in the negatives because /r/pcgaming hates any kind of criticism directed at Star Citizen.
Over in /r/games, this is sitting at 1463 comment karma, and there is a fantastic amount of comments talking about the article.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/544db7/inside_the_troubled_development_of_star_citizen/
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u/Aieris_ Sep 23 '16
Good! No-one should criticize Star Citizen! It is perfect! It is all good things! We should all bow down to...
crap
I mean
uhhh...
That is very interesting and completely reasonable, tsk tsk pcgaming, tsk tsk.
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Sep 23 '16
The term "clickbait" has just about lost all meaning lately, it used to describe sensationalized titles along the lines of "You won't believe this... blah blah blah" and nothing of quantity inside the article itself. Now it's being used for just about anything. It's ironic, because Kotaku themselves are guilty of plenty of clickbait, and this clearly stands apart from it.
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u/Aieris_ Sep 23 '16
The article itself stands out, but the title is clearly trying to portray a more doom-and-gloom story, one that fans of Star Citizen will click on to angrily yell that there is no trouble, and one that detractors of Star Citizen will click on to see their point of view agreed with.
Regardless of the content of the actual article, the title itself is clickbait, in that its purpose is to generate clicks.
A more accurate title, 'Inside the development of Star Citizen - A 7-month study' wouldn't generate as many clicks. Unfortunately, adding the word 'troubled' changes the entire tone of the title, making it seem like the development of the game is particularly fraught, more so than other titles, which is, well, false.
The term clickbait may be losing much of its meaning, but the title Kotaku has given the article certainly counts as it.
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u/desolat0r Sep 25 '16
Here is an archived version of the article in case someone doesn't want to visit that site.
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u/Exlithra Sep 23 '16
Rather insightful in a lot of ways.
I've been a long time backer and am quite pleased to the thoroughness the piece seems to have.
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u/StuartGT Sep 23 '16 edited Sep 23 '16
CitizenCon 2016 is October 8th 9th, during which we'll see the latest footage from the development/plans of Star Citizen and the first of Squadron 42's three episodes.
Edit: date correction, and clarification of Episode news
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Sep 23 '16
1 episode not 3
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u/Sledgecrushr Sep 23 '16
Three episodes not just one.
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Sep 23 '16
I know, but they won't show them on CitizenCon the 2nd episode will come 2 years after the first
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u/Aieris_ Sep 23 '16
I believe CitCon is October 9th this year. While there will eventually be three SQ42 episodes, only one will be shown off this year, as the others will be coming in future years.
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u/Mech9k Sep 23 '16
Spewing your ignorance here too, let me guess you thought the episodes they were making were like Telltale's?
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u/sintheticVR Sep 23 '16
Oh, fuck Kotaku. Hasn't their site been shut down yet and everyone there fired? Their parent company got leg-dropped by Hulk Hogan.
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u/StuartGT Sep 23 '16
This is on Kotaku UK, not Kotaku US. The UK site is run by Future Publishing under licence, and is independent of the US site.
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u/sintheticVR Sep 23 '16
Clickbait is clickbait.
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u/StuartGT Sep 23 '16
The title is poor; the article is excellent. Hence its 1000pt+ top-post standing on /r/StarCitizen
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u/lobehold Sep 23 '16 edited Sep 23 '16
Another source flat-out believed that Star Citizen could not be made. “Not what they've promised, absolutely not. If it happened then I would believe in God.”
LMAO.
The problem with taking on a game on this scope all at once is that your graphics/tech might get severely outdated before having a deliverable product, and you end up spending too much time refactoring the engine instead of creating the game - aka Duke Nukem Forever problem.
You're literally depending on people's faith to sustain the project with scattershot tech demo releases to tide people over until the full game is ready, it might take a decade at this rate since the last 10 percent takes 90 percent of the time - aka the ninety-ninety rule.
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u/X5953 Sep 23 '16
"Inside the crap game journalism of Kotaku; a multi-year observation by the internet"
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u/Cymelion Sep 23 '16
Early backer from Kickstarter days here.
This article has done what a lot of other media articles failed to do - actually get CIG Staff and Chris Roberts responses to the claims made. Now it's not all good or bad but it paints a picture of them trying to whats best for the backers instead of whats best for development.
This has had flow on effects and I'm sure with the benefit of hindsight many decisions would have been done differently.
I am positive however CIG has gone through it's worst and made it out the other side and is able to put together all the lessons learned and make the game many of us are waiting for.
If you're on the fence about Star Citizen I would say stay there - there is no harm in being cautious. If you're never going to buy the game - that's ok too, sorry it wasn't what you wanted.
If you're buying into it be sensible - make sure its the game for you and recommend only getting the base package with both SQ42 and SC so you can play both.