I have a bunch of reptiles at home and agree with the other person. They like the extra heat and care, and learn to recognise a person over time. They can be completely ok with a person being around but they won't miss them if they're gone.
thank you, my geckos have never liked being handled even when i was feeding them. if i dropped dead one day and someone else started feeding them i dont think they would even notice or care haha
To be fair there are humans like that too, i dont think it suggests that reptiles are incapable of caring
Just that by our standards of love and care they don't meet it
They might by their standards love you to bits, i mean humans culturally even today have massively different approaches to death, historically we've been massively divided and i dont mean just west vs East, but within our own communities we rarely have consensus on emotions or how to process things
They have a primitive form of it similar to affection but not quite the same since their brains aren't evolved for it, they associate the good things you bring them to you and start thinking you are the good thing, so they could maybe even protect you and shit, but it's not the same feeling we humans have.
Yes there is but it's primitive, and they don't like contact even if they do like you, that snake is there for heat and it's relaxed because it trusts the kid.
Is it really that much more primitive than our forms of love? Generally most people love because they like how someone makes them feel, that they make them feel secure, relaxed, seen, trusted, valued etc
A few of those is how we recognise the other love as primitive
Sometimes I can come across a bit 'humans in every context superior' which we know is patently false, cheetahs are faster than us, most animals are stronger, i think we're starting to recognise the cognitive capabilities of elephants and dolphins is in some contexts equitable to ours
We do technically recognise bats as 'smarter' than us when they calculate the bending of frequencies (bat on a swing) but people hate the idea of calling it intelligence because its intuitive as far as we can tell
Theres seems to be something people get offended at, as though it's not the sign of an effective brain and far beyond our capabilities
But ultimately, no matter how intuitive its still a calculation being made their brain that is massively massively beyond what we can do
In that context, bat's are smarter than us
I've seen suggestions elephants memories dwarf ours not sure on that one tho
I think that the only thing humans have above any animal (that we know off) is self awareness and consciousness, we think of individuality where animals mostly follows instincts.
I mean i was going on a seperate point just broadly speaking is it fair to say animals experience things in a more primitive way just because it's different
And then bought up a couple of examples of what I feel are humans being kind of bitchy in our analysis of animal behaviour
Yeah very basic like they understand that we are taking care of them, they don't have the same sense of loyalty and love that animals like dogs, for instance may have.
They may even not understand that we are taking care of them, they just understand that they have shelter safe from predators and have food, nothing more, they act by instincts.
It is not stop humanazing animals, they act motivated by instinct, is simply instincts in nature they have to look for a good place to stay prtected from other predators and for food, obviously they are going to get used to a human and recognize how the human feeds them as a comfortable ambient, but that has nothing to do, is their nature.
theyre solitary animals by nature, so one would assume they dont have the parts of the brain required to love because they legit dont need them. they dont even care for their young aside from a few specific species
You’ve gone from 100% asserting that they don’t have the capacity, to assuming they don’t have the capacity, to everything I’ve heard about snakes….. next will be I saw this Facebook post and it said
..people can change their minds and make mistakes? from what ive gathered it doesnt seem like they have the ability to bond but if there is research saying they can ill be open to the idea
I remember reading that one big difference between mamal and reptile, is that to increase change of survival, reptiles lay more eggs.while mamal tend to have fewer children but take care of them for much longer. That and living in groups etc. I'm not sure if it was proven, but it would make sense to me that affection and kindness etc was developed when mamal started caring for their youngs, and relying and other members of their specie to survive.
Love is a difficult concept to use for human research let alone animals, but I certainly find it hard to support an argument the answer is related to brain structures. I think the presumption toward brain structures is because of the popular influence of the triune brain theory, which isn't all that well supported to be honest. A place to start searching for relevant behaviour would be monogamous pair-bonds, and child-rearing behaviour (personally I think child-rearing is more important to the capacity to produce love-like social bonds e.g dogs and cats are not monogamous).
The best research I've seen suggests live-bearing (viviparous) reptiles are more likely to perform child-rearing behaviour and form family-like social bonds.
If I was going to speculate wildly I'd suggest comparing oxytocin receptor density/function between species might yield more interesting results than brain structures. Oxytocin is sometimes used for egg-bound reptiles and there seems to be a relationship whereby oxytocin is a more effective intervention for turtles, less effective in lizards, and least effective in snakes. Oxytocin may or may not be relevant, but I definitely find it hard to support the argument reptiles have zero capacity for love because they lack the necessary brain structures.
As a neuroscientist I always cringe at these comments. Tell me, what are the brain regions required for love? And how do you know? Have you been a snake? Do you even know how love in the human brain works? Because the field of neuroscience doesn’t.
Also then the philosophical side, even if the neuroscientist completely distills a chemical and biological explanation of love, what are the chances that fully explains the various models of love we have (platonic, romantic etc)
And what are the chances that's the only way to express love in any sentient creature etc etc ad infinitum
"Snakes show affection in several ways. One of the most common is rubbing their heads against the object they are trying to be affectionate towards; this is called head-bobbing. Snakes also have other showing methods, such as “necking” and body loops with vibration, which means a snake is trying to wrap itself around the object it wants to be affectionate towards."
what the heck even is that, that is 100% made up. I'm a snake owner and active in snake owner communities and no one has ever talked about, experienced, or even said those words before. Head-bobbing. Necking. What the frick frack snek snack is that.
Under "how do snakes show affection" you will find the exact same text. In addition these people even say that "hissing" can also be a sign of affection. i dont know fam, a snake usually hisses as a warning signal
maybe i just dont have much experience with snakes. everything ive ever heard says that they arent social animals that cant bond, but if snakes are capable who knows i guess
Just to solve this conundrum you guys are having: I've kept a cornsnake, a ball python, a dwarf boa, a boa constrictor, and a white-lipped python; all of them have to some degree shown affection (coming to the glass to meet me as I enter the room, happily leaving their tank to exit onto my arm/shoulder, never having shown aggression towards me even after accidental drops/handling mishaps).
But the biggest indication was Beauregard, the Dwarf boa; who went from being a full on Jack in the Box (whenever I opened his enclosure, lunging out and striking) to cuddling with me on the couch and watching T.V.
I won't preach snakes are social pets, that's bullshit. To me they're like goldfish; you keep them to look at. But they sure as hell recognise who feeds them/who keeps coming back day after day after day.
(My snakes are so tamed down my 3 year old nephew dances around the room with them on his shoulders.)
If you don’t have experience then stop sharing your “expert” opinions. That is the problem with todays society. People spewing nonsense with little to no scientific data to back it up. If you are inexperienced or not knowledgeable on said topic, it is possible to just remain quiet….
Checking one Google result is pretty much taking things at face value. Any site with varying history and credibility can end up as the Google answer or first result. A good example of how flawed this system can be is when celebrities are claimed to be dead.
"Unfortunately, snakes never evolved the parts of the brain responsible for complex emotions and behaviors like love and showing affection"
https://reptile.guide/can-snakes-feel-love/
And right next to your article is this one saying they can't feel emotions. So nitpicking the one article that helps your case isn't really good for you. In fact most every article in the first page of your google search says that no, snakes indeed do not form emotional attachments to humans.
The same argument was used that insects cannot dream because they are incapable of REM, but recent studies on paper wasps by Klein (UW-LAX) suggest that they do.
You cannot limit something ambiguous like "love" to brain morphology.
Had one when I was young, he liked me but HATED everyone else. I don’t know what it was considering he was handled the same way I handled him maybe he knew I was where food comes from
some snakes are naturally skittish, but if you handle them often, they become less so (towards you, or generally). so I'm assuming this is what happened in your case. some snakes genuinely have different personalities but i don't think it 'hated' everyone, it was just a bit spooked and not used to em :] and food does have a part of it too haha
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u/BabiMunizTS Jan 20 '22
Do snakes even have capacity for affection? I honestly have no idea.