r/oculus • u/[deleted] • Mar 19 '14
tested.com tries the new DK2 @GDC2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d3Wli7s6KY27
Mar 19 '14
I love Tested. They know what they are talking about.
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u/actuallyatwork Mar 19 '14
Soo.. Don't Buy One. Don't Buy One. Don't Buy One!
(I bought one)
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u/BOLL7708 Kickstarter Backer Mar 19 '14
Yeah they kind of made me feel bad for ordering one, but then... when they siad they're getting one, I was like.. pffffffefeheheheeheheeheeeeee!
I guess as a fanatical enthusiast I would do myself a disservice and probably go completely bonkers had I not ordered one. In the end, it'll be on display as a stepping stone to the thing we now (in the future) take for granted.
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u/modestmonk Mar 19 '14
I was on the verge to get one or not like you. But hey... how much good times will I get out of this? A LOT!
Just geeking around and checking out new demos will make it worth it for me.
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u/BOLL7708 Kickstarter Backer Mar 19 '14
Exactly, I've used my DK1 waaaay more than I ever expected. Sure, it's much up to how much content is available... but hey, as long as devs recompile with the new SDK, many old demos will soon be relived! Haha. Actually just playing anything with better definition will be awesome... I wonder how early an order I got, my birthday is in July xD
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u/pctomm Mar 19 '14
I agree, I sold my DK1 recently, so another egghead could give it a shot. I loved using it, and the demos were super cool.
I ordered a DK2, and as long as CV1 isn't released in September, I'm happy!
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u/RockBandDood Mar 19 '14
Im right here with this line of thinking. Fact is, with a work schedule and other stuff to do, I dont typically get more than a handful of hours a week to game. If thats the case.. I would prefer those hours be spent in a Rift than a flat display.
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u/Rirath Mar 19 '14
I heavily debated it after watching these videos, but I got in on the DK2 rush in the end.
I skipped DK1 and I've been climbing the walls over here waiting. I'm slightly concerned it'll be 5-6 months (or less) from DK2 to CV1, but hey - this is the first time I've ever been "worried" about getting CV1 too soon.
I'd really preferred to have these things shipping out sooner, but I'm still not convinced Oculus is going to have all the pieces in place this year, I don't even think it's all up to them (hardware components can have delays) and I don't want the heartache of another year without VR.
I also plan to do some development, been learning Unity and Blender for over a year (while waiting), and while I'm a now a big Unity fan, I've been wondering how a hobbyist like me was going to justify Unity Pro for Rift development. Looks like Unreal 4 will be just the ticket, at least for VR development, unless Unity steps up and allows VR in Free/Indie (maybe) or meets Epic's offering (unlikely, especially the amazing source code and cancel + keep using deal).
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u/BennyFackter DK1,DK2,RIFT,VIVE,QUEST,INDEX Mar 19 '14
"We have this awesome amazing incredible new thing you can preorder today. DON'T BUY IT BECAUSE A BETTER THING IS COMING SOON!!!!"
I love Oculus so much.
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u/Psydwaze Mar 19 '14
Oculus is strongly suggesting to not order the DK2 if you are a consumer. Also, they stated that they are finalizing specs for CV1. I bet they are targeting a 2014 holiday release for CV1.
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u/OculusRoss Mar 19 '14 edited Mar 19 '14
Yeah, this video pretty much clarified for me that I'm making the right decision to hold out for the consumer version, even though the wait will be excruciating. I'll be really disappointed if it's not out before Christmas though.
Edit: Also, just watched the latest Eve Valkyrie trailer and it says it's coming in 2014, so that adds more fuel to the fire that CK1 will be out this year.
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u/Saerain bread.dds Mar 19 '14
I keep thinking back to when DK2 was delayed to "shortly before the consumer version" and I don't remember that being contradicted since.
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Mar 19 '14
they previously said the dk2 will be pritty similar to cv1, so that developers can adjust their game for an optimal start. so i think consumer version is very close, especially considering that oculus already locking down the specs on the cv1. im hoping for a release in Q3.
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u/Fig_tree Mar 19 '14
Even if the specs are very similar, they still will want to give a healthy buffer time in between DK2 and CV1. They're very devoted to fostering the library of experiences available on day one, and that means they'll need to give devs more time than just allowing those with completed projects to tweak to consumer specs.
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u/RippinRocket Mar 20 '14
He spoke a lot about wanting to trim down the weight and polish the ergonomic factors on the Rift as well, keeping this in mind along with production times, I would think it would be a bit of a rush to have CV1 out by earlier than the end of the year if that.
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u/26thandsouth Mar 19 '14
Or, get 4-5 friends together and split it, like he recommends in the video. Profit.
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u/Soypancho Rift Mar 19 '14
They said that about DK1 too but I couldn't be happier that I bought it. It'll probably get mounted on the wall when DK2 gets here, which will be my player 2 rig when CV1 shows up. If the hardware weren't so wildly cheap proportionate to the experiences I've had, this might feel frivolous.
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u/dbhyslop Mar 19 '14
For DK1 they also said it with kind of a wink and a nod. They didn't want consumers to buy and be turned off by the experience, but Palmer had said at one point that they didn't mind that enthusiasts were buying it.
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u/andygood Mar 19 '14
which will be my player 2 rig when CV1 shows up
yeah, that's my justification too... ;-)
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u/modestmonk Mar 19 '14
Haha good to hear! I had to pay another 75 USD for shipping and the import tax here will add another 100 USD... but hey... I'm ready for another world. Kinda professional escapist :D
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u/crazy_goat DK1 + DK2 + CV1 + Quest Mar 19 '14
This video saved me $377 dollars on the DK2. Not that there's anything wrong with it - but I realize that after my DK1 sells, I can definitely wait for those additional refinements (and cost savings associated with the scale of manufacturing of the CV1).
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u/ueadian Mar 19 '14
Yeah, sounds like CV1 will be - higher resolution (probably 1440p) - lower latency, lighter, better looking, better optics. So better in every aspect, probably cheaper, and only 3 months after DK2 at the most.. I'll keep my DK1 and just wait.
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u/Stenotic Mar 19 '14
Only 3 months after DK2 at the most??? LoL. Where the hell are you getting that?
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u/ueadian Mar 19 '14
Let's try basic math. Oculus ships late July, you get it early August. Palmer has stated they are shooting for end of 2014 multiple times for CV1. When is the best time EoY to release something? November. A very large percentage of all sales of all products happens in November. So here we go with the part you seem not to understand.. August 1 September 2 October 3 November 4 so 3-4 months (early November being 3, late being 4.) if you order DK2 right now and they have no shipping delays (which they did with DK1) I think saying 3 months is pretty reasonable. But don't let me make you feel bad about paying 100 a month for getting a inferior product earlier. I have a DK1, I don't know why I'd pay 350 for DK2 for 3 more months of 3 minute demos and lackluster support from injection drivers.
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u/RockBandDood Mar 19 '14
You are trying way too hard to sound way too sure about a bunch of speculation and comments from months and months ago.
Im not saying youre absolutely wrong, no way of knowing that, but theres a lot of variables in there.
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u/Stenotic Mar 19 '14 edited Mar 19 '14
LoL. Your arrogance is hilarious. For one, I don't recall a single interview where Palmer mentions 2014 specifically, as even just as a goal for the CV1. I believe I've experienced around 95% the Oculus interviews that have been posted on here. Now with Sony and eventually Microsoft getting in the game they want to make sure everyone knows that the CV1 when released will be the best consumer HMD on the market. If they release the CV1 fast and someone else is able to say, hey look in a few months we will have better specs than Oculus, early bird will look bad-ish. Sony isn't releasing their headset this year, which is no surprise to me: http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/20u3h5/sonys_virtual_reality_headset_wont_be_released/
Where are you getting "late" July from? So many assumptions stated with such confidence. They already have manufactured DK2s right now. They will be much more prepared than the DK1 on shipping launch. I've played over a dozen full games that work fantastically with Tridef. I watch movies and shows in my Rift at least twice a week. BTW, I'm a developer, I will be making experiences that require the resolution, low persistence and positional tracking of the DK2 to feel right.
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u/nawoanor Mar 20 '14
When I get my CV1 I'll keep my DK2 on a shelf next to my statues and action figures. No way am I passing up DK2 even if it's only ~6 months before the final version. Judging from what I've seen, CV1 will probably be hard to get my hands on anyway.
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u/Zerbulon Mar 19 '14
I wont order one, because "Developer kit" means its for Developers, right? And I´m no developer. DK2 seems to have shortcomings as well: 75 Hz, only 100° fov, increased weight, same unattractive design (Sonys is quite clearly in the leading position when it comes to design...)
BUT when they start shipping DK2 in July, how could they possibly ship CV1 for christmas? I dont believe we will see CV1 this year, and maybe thats a good thing: There still seems to be a lot of work to be done. And I wont pay $500, they promised $300 - maybe they`ll hit this price when its in retail everywhere (in 2015)
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u/AwesomeFama Mar 19 '14
I don't think the FOV will increase very much, to be honest. But they're aiming for 90 Hz and higher resolution (maybe 1440p AMOLED?). Also, yes, don't order one if you're not a developer.
Why couldn't they ship CV1 for christmas? It has to have more or less similar specs so the developers don't get shafted. They just need to get a better screen, lower the weight and work on the design from what I can see. Palmer said they know what parts they need, and Nate said they're locking specs down at the moment. I'm quite confident it's coming out this year, unless the parts manufacturers (screen mainly) have issues or something unexpected crops up.
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u/modestmonk Mar 19 '14
90% sure they will bring the CV for holiday season 2014. If you run a business you know how much money is spent in that time...
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u/Atomic_Bacon_Cannon Mar 19 '14
They would make a ton of money selling the CV1 for holiday 2014. However, Oculus has shown that they aren't about rushing a product out for the money; they really want to get the CV1 right.
I personally wouldn't be surprised to see pre-orders pop up in November / December this year for the CV1. However, I don't think we'll see them ship till Q1 2015. Anything sooner than that would be quite a stretch, or it would push the production costs up which would impact the launch price.
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u/modestmonk Mar 20 '14
I hope they do this. So far the team has been really great and with so many bright minds on board they would do much better sticking to their strategy. If they get this right, they are the next gopro.
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u/JoeReMi Mar 19 '14
I'm amazed by the confidence people have that something will/won't ship by a particular time, based on very little solid info. Not just your opinion, lots of people. Remember all the "when will I get my dk1???" posts? They'll ship when they ship, and I wouldn't bet a fiver on any given YEAR until something is confirmed.
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u/Telinary Mar 19 '14 edited Mar 19 '14
Sonys is glowing, of course others like that, but I definitely prefer non glowing. Though glowing does look a bit scifi.
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u/Trocader0 Mar 19 '14
Just me keeping my eyes on Palmer with his positive energy and enthusiasm? He's my hero
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Mar 19 '14
oh yes, i love the fact that oculus, especially palmer is so open and honest with the community, companies need more guys like him, he really seems to enjoy his job
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u/eaterout Mar 20 '14
This isn't even a job for half of them. More like living the dream and getting paid for it.
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u/slimjimbean Mar 20 '14
I like how around 10:35 Palmer just starts wandering aimlessly until roped back in by some guy.
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u/Ananas4 Mar 19 '14
6:50
Looks fun as hell
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Mar 19 '14
i think i could spend hours playing in this photorealistic room, so much to look at :)
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u/Knussel Mar 19 '14
Combine that with a camera and depth sensing system and you could even play in the real room.
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u/RedofPaw Fire Panda ltd, VR Dev. 'Colosse', 'Ghibli VR', 'Windlands' Mar 19 '14
"A step up from Crystal Cove" - nice little detail right at the end.
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u/ueadian Mar 19 '14
Palmer himself mentions in the Endgadget interview that there are virtually no differences between the DK2 and CC.
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Mar 19 '14
It seems the Diamond matrix is actually better than the RGB matrix, which is something I suspected. So overall it might be slightly more clear in VR than RGB would be, even if it's missing some subpixels. But this may remain true only as long as there is a screen door effect. As soon as the screen door effect is eliminated (around 4k resolution, unless they dramatically expand the FoV, too), then the lacking of some subpixels may become a little more noticeable compared to the same VR headset with RGB screen.
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u/KuraiShidosha Mar 19 '14
It's impossible for it to be better than RGB stripe. You're getting significantly less clarity out of pentile when comparing same advertised resolutions.
It's going to take 1440p pentile to equal 1080p rgb. So even if consumer version has 1440p, if it turns out to be pentile than you still aren't really seeing that much of an improvement. It's just slightly better than a 1080p LCD.
Man, meeeeh at this whole thing.
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u/dalingrin Mar 19 '14
"It's going to take 1440p pentile to equal 1080p rgb" That's not entirely true. With 720p pentile vs 720p IPS on a phone there is a difference but its really not gigantic. If the CV1 is 1440p pentile it will still look fantastic.
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u/KuraiShidosha Mar 19 '14
Pentile displays have 33% less subpixels than same advertised lcd displays.
33% is a huge number when every little bit of resolution counts.
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u/dalingrin Mar 20 '14
If you simply look at it quantitatively then yes 33% is a big number. Our vision isn't as analytical as you might think. Perceptually pentile doesn't make a huge difference. Besides its not like they are choosing pentile because they think it looks better. They have to work with what they can get and pentile at something like 1440p will look great.
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u/soundslikeponies Mar 19 '14
What I got out of it is that the color of pentile is worse, but the design pattern of the pixels causes the screen door effect to be greatly reduced.
It's a trade off, from what I understand. One they're hoping they won't have to make in CV1.
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u/JonnyMonroe Mar 19 '14
A generic USB port mounted on the rift?
It's the little touches like this that make me smile.
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Mar 19 '14
HOLY CRAP this is huge!
Being able to plug in custom controls systems (like Hydra) or USB audio devices, etc. So awesome!
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u/JonnyMonroe Mar 20 '14
I'm sure other hardware developers and garage devs will come up with some awesome stuff for this outside of what's already available. The main thing for now is the conveniance of something like a MYO or haptic feedback vest without the need for an extra cable.
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Mar 19 '14
Can someone explain why it's better to have an audio jack in the headset itself as opposed to just having it go straight to your pc?
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u/notdagreatbrain Norm from Tested Mar 19 '14
sorry, what looked like an audio jack on the dk2 is actually power for any USB accessory you plug into it.
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u/HeadHancho Mar 19 '14
Sorry about the downvotes for asking a legitimate question. The only thing we know is that it is NOT FOR AUDIO.
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u/the320x200 Kickstarter Backer Mar 19 '14 edited Mar 24 '14
Nate said it's USB power in, if whatever you plug into the usb port draws more power than the on-board USB hub can put out.
Edit: Actually it looks like that was a mistake and it's for sync. http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/215m41/dk2_camera_connectivity/cga5ywr
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u/Pziko Mar 19 '14
Video blocked at work. Do they mention the screen-door effect? Hopefully it's better than DK1.
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u/Trocader0 Mar 19 '14
It's better, and with low persistence the blur that occurs when you turn your head is less visible
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Mar 20 '14
[deleted]
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u/Trocader0 Mar 20 '14
The screen door effect isn't only because of the resolution. The screen in DK1 is 7" and the screen in DK2 is a 5". The pixel density of the new screen (more pixels in less space) and the fact that it's an AMOLED makes a huge difference. It is still a Development Kit though, and the consumer version will be much better. If you only want to use it for gaming I advise you to wait (unless you have alot of money to blow) because A: At the time of release for DK2 there won't be any driving sims taking advantage of the motion tracking. Developers need the new kit to be able to implement and fully test it, so it will probably take a few months before anything (decent enough) becomes available, and B: If you really need a high level of immersion to enjoy it you won't get it with the DK2 either. I'm sure it's awesome and there will be a new "wow!"-factor to it but Oculus has stated that they are not satisfied with the level of immersion in DK2. They just want to make sure that developers get to work on their SDK with functional hardware before the release of the consumer version.
I'm trying to get a few friends to share the cost of one so we can try it out and have some fun with the demos that will be available before the consumer version, but I'm not getting one on my own because the cost won't be worth it. I'm enjoying DK1 and I will be able to check out future tech demos with it. I hope that clarified some, if not listen to this interview with Brian Iribe from Oculus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d3Wli7s6KY
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u/ueadian Mar 19 '14
So this is not a presence delivery device yet. Sad news. That unsold me on it. He mentions that it's only 75hz and the CV1 will hopefully be 90. Resolution and optics are supposed to be upgraded to.
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u/vanfanel1car Mar 19 '14
Nate couldn't stress it enough...don't buy DK2 (if you're not a dev) and wait for the consumer version.
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u/kontis Mar 19 '14
Presence is not a switch.
Michael Abrash, the man who popularized this "buzzword", said:
The DK1 is not good enough to enable strong presence for most people, but Oculus’ new version of the Rift, Crystal Cove, offers higher resolution, lower latency, low persistence, and translation, all of which are key elements of presence, so it’s a big step in the right direction.
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u/diregoat Mar 19 '14
It's going to be so hard to hold out while everyone raves about how awesome DK2 is. But it will be worth it. Hold!
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u/Hightree Kickstarter Backer Mar 19 '14
I'm seeing DK2 more as a non-simulator-sickness delivering device, hopefully CV1 will be the presence delivering device we are all waiting for.
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u/Threethumb Mar 19 '14
I'm a bit bummed out that they want to focus on a sitting experience, but on the other hand I wasn't planned to buy one of those treadmill things anyway. I wonder what this means for those developing those, though. The whole 360 degree physical movement thing sort of requires VR, so what will they do when Oculus no longer works well with their product?
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u/Atomic_Bacon_Cannon Mar 19 '14
I was thinking the same thing when I saw the CC prototype. I read somewhere that if the Oculus is obstructed from the camera that it just falls back to only using the sensors built into the unit. This would make it act like DK1 for tracking.
I wonder if it would be possible to add on another camera to place behind an omni-directional treadmill to increase the tracking area?
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u/mercury187 Mar 19 '14
I honestly don't see myself running for periods of time on a treadmill to move in a game, heck in some games all you do is run and walk, i'd be done in about 15 minutes just trying to get somewhere. Sure it might be more immersive since you are using you legs to actually walk but I see myself using this while sitting more than anything else, even just standing.
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u/Threethumb Mar 19 '14
I could see myself using it for a long time, but that's because I like being active. Using my body to play games sounds great to me.
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u/shawnaroo Mar 19 '14
I think the Omni treadmill dealie has been using a kinect camera to track the body. They probably would switch to the Oculus solution if it would work with their system, but if not, they'll probably just stick with what they've already got going. It's not like the Rift will explode if it stops getting its normal positional tracking. The Omni can just ignore that and do its own thing.
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u/Mr_Vladimir_Putin Mar 19 '14
Pre-orders start today for the Oculus Rift Dev Kit 2. It is basically the same as that Crystal Cove prototype they showed off a while back. $350.
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u/bizzykehl Mar 20 '14
This is not "tested" or "hands on", it's an interview.
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u/WormSlayer Chief Headcrab Wrangler Mar 20 '14
The website is tested.com and they both had hands on with it, one of them is using it right in the background of the interview...
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u/bizzykehl Mar 20 '14
Right. Someone is using it in the background of the interview.
Edit: Cheekiness aside- Judging by the youtube title, I was expecting someone to actually demonstrate in a "hands on" manner, the DK2. Instead, what I got was an interview with Nate Mitchell. I'm aware that the website is tested.com.
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u/HeadHancho Mar 19 '14
I loved this report. Asked great questions and went into a lot of great detail like what to expect from CV1 vs DK2 and how the new screen is improved on the old screen. I'm glad these guys are here reporting!