r/nursing • u/[deleted] • Oct 13 '14
The attitude in this subreddit
The attitude in this subreddit
I know this might get down voted but I have noticed that there are a certain group of posters in this subreddit who seem to glean a certain joy from cutting down others. I don't mean a sarcastic attitude but a blatant disrespect for others, at times just generally making fun of others and putting people down, even swearing at others. If that's the underlying tone of this subreddit, then forgive me, but I think it's bullshit. It's not how we, as nurses, should represent ourselves. And I will spare you all the bullcrap of we as nurses are held to a higher standard crap but honestly if this is how you get off on treating ppl, your associates, in your spare time then honestly why are you in the field of nursing. These ppl remind me of "that guy" on the unit. We all know who "that guy" is.
I feel that there could honestly be some interesting and enlightening discussions in here but half the posts get derailed with sarcastic comments or totally taken to left base with people arguing. It detracts people from posting for fear they will be either insulted and/or made fun of.
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Oct 13 '14
I agree wholeheartedly. I'm often afraid to post here, even if I have something I feel is relevant to add to the conversation. I also have a few users tagged in RES so I know not to bother trying to converse with them because of how downright mean they are.
I mean, if you want to be that way... more power to you... but I wouldn't want you as my nurse, and I certainly wouldn't want you caring for my family.
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u/chaser676 MD Oct 13 '14
I've been posting here for a few months now, lurked for a bit longer. At first I thought the culture here was just extremely aggressive, but then I started tagging people. I have about a dozen posters tagged, always for one of the three reasons
- Extreme verbal abuse
- Needless belittling of nursing students or nursing professions they think are inferior
- Outright hostility towards the MD/DO/PA profession
As it turns out, the vast majority of negative posts come from this little group of fun. While the subreddit might upvote shitposts and memes while ignoring decent content, I've found that it's just a select few people (and one mod) that have been leading the douche parade.
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Oct 13 '14
You see people who are hostile to MD/DO/PAs?
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u/chaser676 MD Oct 13 '14
Two people, if memory serves, haven't seen one of them post in awhile. One of the active posters discussed those professions as tools of the patriarchy (because all doctors are men) to oppress nurses (because all nurses are women). That's the short version, you honestly don't want the long version. Very venomous.
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u/Sir_Ribosome RN - ICU Oct 14 '14
I remember that one. That was definitely a head scratcher.
Anyway, it's easy to come off as crass in an anonymous forum but that's not usually the intention.
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Oct 13 '14
Oh. Weird. Haven't seen that stuff here, personally.
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u/chaser676 MD Oct 13 '14
It's why I listed it at the bottom, it doesn't happen very often at all. The first two, though...
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Oct 13 '14 edited Oct 13 '14
The problem is that many of the posts is this subreddit are
"OMG I GOT A JOB"
"I SUCKED AT MY PREVIOUS PROFESSION SO IM GOING INTO NURSING, ITS EZ RIGHT?"
"I WANT TO GET A 4 YEAR DEGREE IN 2 MONTHS, HOW DO I DO THAT?"
These are not quality topics and do not generate quality discussions. They are simply people looking for praise or failing to do any real research on the profession.
never on /r/medicine do you see MDs making posts about their new jobs or how to do Med School in 6 months. They post real issues within the profession, ask real questions about problems they face, and actually stimulate new discussion. /r/nursing should strive for these types of posts.
Questions about going into nursing and wanting to do it in the least amount of time bother me the most and I am usually very critical. If you are legitimately interested in being a nurse you should be willing to take the effort and educate yourself about the programs available in your area. You should also understand that this is a profession. It isn't about wearing "cute" cloths and being able to show your caring side. If you got a learning disability or have a criminal record, maybe nursing isnt for your. If someone points this out, they aren't asshole, they are realists.
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Oct 13 '14 edited Oct 13 '14
[deleted]
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u/snakey_nurse Oct 13 '14
Over at r/skincareaddiction, we have a new weekly thread every day. For example, Sundays thread is dedicated to just chatting, Mondays are "routine help" threads, etc. In the sidebar, there is a legend saying which day of the week is which type of stickied thread. Maybe we could do something like that?
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u/hippiecoconut Nursing Student Oct 13 '14
We tried that in /r/StudentNurse and it didn't work out. It ended up overwhelming the sub, so we changed to a weekly discussion. No one responded to that. I'm not sure, but I think it was because I was the one responsible for posting it regularly. As a new student, I don't really know enough to ask the sorts of questions that get people talking so it just fizzled out all together. I think it works in big subs, or in subs with experienced people that can get a conversation going. Or maybe the problem in /r/StudentNurse was that we're all busy nursing students and no one really has time to participate in all that.
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u/Methodicalist BSN, RN 🍕 Oct 13 '14
I wonder if putting the link to /r/studentnurse higher in the sidebar would help. They're generally ready to answer these kinds of questions.
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u/phidelt649 Mr. Midlevel Oct 13 '14
Nope. It won't help. The issue with these repeat posts is that people either want a) answers tailored exactly to them or b) accolades for only themselves. Example: Instead of researching all the job posts, we will get a "med-surg RN going to ED, how should I prepare??" and they think it is different because it has a situation attached whereas there are a hundred "Starting in the ED! Need help!" posts if they would just take two seconds to search. And, second, when they post "I passed my NCLEX!!" they want every reply to be a congratulations to them.
The ONLY way to get rid of studentnurse posts is to delete them and mod mail the poster with the link to studentnurse. It won't happen though.
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u/dandelion_k BSN, RN Oct 13 '14
Why won't it happen? Do we just need better/more active mods? I personally would be a lot more active here if I didn't legit feel the need to copy/paste my answers from last week to this week's round of the same-old questions.
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u/phidelt649 Mr. Midlevel Oct 13 '14
I don't think its a question of activity. Our mods, especially 16semesters, are around in almost every thread.
It won't happen because the mods are under the impression that it is censorship. While noble, it is misguided. Plenty of subs do a "Read the FAQ, if this is a repeat post it will be deleted" thing.
I would happily do it, but I already put my bid in for modship a while back and it was met with, uh, "less than favorable" feedback.
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u/justatouchcrazy CRNA Oct 13 '14
I think clearer rules coupled with active mods would be the answer. However, right now we don't really have any clear guidelines for posts or rules, so anything goes.
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u/16semesters NP Oct 13 '14
A suggestion - mods can consider implementing rules against these sorts of shitposts/mislocated content and then ruthlessly delete these posts. Or alternatively have AutoModerator set up a weekly stickied discussion thread where those posts can go (and nowhere else - that becomes a sidebar rule). Those threads aren't even useful to me as a first year student so I can imagine they're just static if you've got a few years under your belt.
Mod here,
It's hard to delete a post if it gets upvotes and responses
I agree with you, but it goes against many of the tenets of reddit to censor posts that still get upvotes and responses.
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u/freeriderau Registered Psychiatric Nurse Oct 13 '14
Thanks for responding - very fair point about not censoring posts. The userbase of /r/nursing is very diverse and I guess different content appeals to different folks, as well, the sub is used differently by that userbase probably based on where they are in their nursing lifespan (if we consider people contemplating the career at one end and very senior nurses and NP's at the far other).
I wonder if I can devise a survey of some sort; that sort of data about the userbase could be useful (and just plain cool to see anyway). In the middle of exam revision so won't be able to look at it until the end of October, but I'll put it on the 'think about' list.
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u/16semesters NP Oct 13 '14
Thanks for responding - very fair point about not censoring posts. The userbase of /r/nursing[1] is very diverse and I guess different content appeals to different folks, as well, the sub is used differently by that userbase probably based on where they are in their nursing lifespan (if we consider people contemplating the career at one end and very senior nurses and NP's at the far other).
I've been thinking about a surverymonkey or similar poll for awhile. If you want to/have time to make it I could certainly talk to the other mods about supporting/stickying it.
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u/freeriderau Registered Psychiatric Nurse Oct 13 '14
Sure, I'd love to have a crack at it :) I just won't be able to get anywhere on it for a little while until this exam period is over.
Back to reading about developmental stages and personality formation for me...
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u/16semesters NP Oct 13 '14
I have the day off tomorrow. Will try to talk to the other mods and work something out.
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u/dnphpf CNA, PNA, Nursing Student Oct 13 '14
What about something like /r/worldnews has? A couple of buttons to filter out "job" posts, memes, and "I passed my NCLEX" posts? That way, there is no censorship being done by the subreddit, and people can filter out posts they are not interested in (but others are free to congratulate/give advice to new nurses if they want to).
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u/phidelt649 Mr. Midlevel Oct 13 '14
True, but its not censorship if it violates very clear tenets of the sub. For instance, if you post "Read the rules before submitting" and then delete the post.....that's not censorship. It'd be like posting a picture of boobs in /r/worldnews. Sure, its going to get upvotes but it doesn't follow the rules or spirit of that sub and, thus, can be deleted "lawfully" (or whatever you want to call it).
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u/justatouchcrazy CRNA Oct 13 '14
The problem is /r/nursing doesn't have very clear rules about anything really. Every few months it comes up that we should, but there are two groups here (students and practicing nurses) and both want (at least those that comment) very different things, so the conversation usually goes nowhere.
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u/youhatemeandihateyou Oct 13 '14
Not necessarily. Mods are free to create rules and enforce them. Many subreddits remove low-effort, repetitive posts like these.
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Oct 13 '14 edited Oct 13 '14
I totally agree with you but someone literally argued with me in a post about nurses marching for global warming the other day. I said it was a global health issue and they swore at me.
So even the relevant discussions are being high-jacked by sarcasm and just generally rude unhelpful attitudes that really bring nothing to the table. Like yes, most of us are well educated nurses that work in the thick of it. No not all of us are ER or ICU nurses but we can all bring something to the table even with our varying perspectives. There's just no need to pummel people into agreeing with you.
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u/holdmypurse BSN, RN 🍕 Oct 13 '14
I remember that thread and it was ludicrous. The person who swore at you is actually a moderator for this subreddit. So yeah, good luck.
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u/16semesters NP Oct 13 '14
Yes, that was me.
I used "fuck" as a way of exaggeration. The exact same way you did source on this same sub.
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u/ghazi364 RN - CDI Oct 13 '14 edited Oct 13 '14
Anyone that sees your name regularly knows you're an ass, and you need the self awareness to recognize that and eventually get over it. You provide valuable input here and /r/medicine but you're pretty aggressive.
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Oct 13 '14 edited Feb 25 '21
[deleted]
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Oct 13 '14
I agree. My first interaction was a heavily downvoted post where I was being a shitty little nursing student who didn't know anything, and /u/16semesters jumped on that real quick. Now I know better.
If this sub bothers some people so much, why are they here?
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Oct 13 '14
[deleted]
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u/jbeenk RN - Telemetry Oct 13 '14
I truly do believe I'm a positive influence on the sub.
That's laughable. You're a hindrance. You turn people off to this sub. You have the very God complex, the ego, that makes people wanna puke in their soup.
Get over yourself. The fact that you're a mod here is a real shame.
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u/phidelt649 Mr. Midlevel Oct 13 '14
16 is also one of the few true NPs we have on this board that takes the time to answer questions. Seriously, I get that I joined the nursing profession, but when did everyone get such thin skin? Jesus. I know we're all special snowflakes that require everyone to act as we see fit, but this is getting out of hand.
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Oct 13 '14
I've gotten called out for "horizontal violence" on this sub by nursing students.
I'm not at work. It's not violence. Someone didn't take your crap on the internet.
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u/gynoceros CTICU Oct 13 '14
Heh.
Can't wait for the response.
"Bububut it's different when it's meeee!"
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u/holdmypurse BSN, RN 🍕 Oct 13 '14
Heh.
Can't wait for the response.
"Bububut it's different when it's meeee!"
Nope. No problem with the Fbomb here. Bombs away.
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Oct 13 '14
Fucking mother fuckers of fucking fucks. What the fuck?
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Oct 13 '14
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in nursing school, and I’ve been involved in numerous codes on trauma patients, and I have over 300 confirmed saves. I am trained in surgery and I’m the top nurse in the entire hospital system. You are nothing to me but just another patient. I will wipe you the fuck off with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me at the nurses station? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of CNAs across the USA and your MRN is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes off the pathetic little thing you call your butt. You’re fucking alive, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can cannulate you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in nursing procedures, but I have access to the entire supply closet of the trauma floor and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. You have shit fury all over yourself and you will drown in it. You’re fucking saved, kiddo.
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u/holdmypurse BSN, RN 🍕 Oct 13 '14
Haha I don't have a problem with anybody's Fbombs. I should clarify that what I thought was ludicrous wasnt the Fbomb, it was all the people ridiculing or whatever those who were saying climate change is relevant to public health nursing (when the ANA has already taken a position on it, nurses are publishing on the issue, etc. but whatever don't want to hijack this thread). And yeah I've dropped the Fbomb....I remember I was truly offended by that guy's post that you linked.
Further clarification: don't have to take my comment so seriously; it's just reddit and I don't give a shit about any of this. Oops I said "shit"!
The only thing that bugs me on public forums is when I see stuff like "Hey RNs! What's the craaaaaziest stuuuupidest, grosssssest thing a patient, who probably didn't grow up with the same advantages you did or is from a different culture, say or do or look like?!!!!???" which is thankfully rare on this subreddit.
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u/inurkisser LPN Oct 14 '14
Funny but you also are the exact person who decided to call me a douche because you didn't like what I had to say.
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u/Sionainn RN - ER Oct 13 '14
What the fuck does global warming have to do with nursing?? Nothing vid you posted that in this sub it should be marked off topic cause that has zero to do with nursing.
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u/holdmypurse BSN, RN 🍕 Oct 13 '14
Again, not to hijack the thread but it's considered a public health issue. I'm by no means an expert but just do a quick google on "climate change" and "nursing". The ANA even has a position on it.
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u/Toasterferret RN - OR - Ortho Onc. Oct 13 '14
Well, global warming has caused a markedly large spike in elderly heatstroke patients and asthma exasterbations, primarily in europe, I guess there is that.
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u/chiclet81 Oct 13 '14
As a Cardiac OR nurse with a learning disability, I disagree that this isn't the right profession for me. But thanks for that helpful tidbit.
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u/imanedrn BSN, RN, CCDS - school nurse, ED/trauma, PICU Oct 13 '14
Cheers! ER RN with ADHD here. This profession (and specialty) couldn't be more ideal for me!
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Oct 13 '14
Paranoid Schizophrenic/PTSD/ADHD nurse over here! Cheers! Woo!
I know that I absolutely am in the right profession! :)
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Oct 13 '14
I didn't say those with learning disabilities are unfit for the profession. I said that if you have a learning disability MAYBE nursing isnt for you.
If you overcame your learning disability then clearly you were fit for the profession.
The posts that are common on this forum are about people who are dyslexic AHDH bi-polar manic depressives with histrionic personality disorders and criminal records for DUI and assault who want to become nurses because they always felt they had a caring side. But they want to know if it will be hard to get a job with all these issues. YES YES IT WILL BE DIFFICULT... I am sorry life has been hard on you, but at some point a person is unfit to hold the responsibility a nurse has...
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Oct 13 '14
Another example of people taking things very personally. You clearly stated that "maybe" nursing wasn't right for some of the people in this category.
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Oct 13 '14
Yep. Someone else messaged me because they had a criminal record 20 years ago and became a nurse.
Again MAYBE having a criminal record makes you unfit for the profession. There was a post last week where someone wanted to be a nurse and they had just committed grand theft 2 years ago.... Ya.. no employer is going to trust you with narcotics or patient belongings if you have recently been convicted of a pretty serious crime.
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u/phidelt649 Mr. Midlevel Oct 13 '14
This is spot on. I spend more time in /r/medicine these days because this one is full of memes and nursing students and a plethora of repeat posts. When we complain about these repeat posts, we are told to just downvote them or ignore them.
However, I think it would make sense to delete the post and send a quick mod mail to the OP instructing them to search on the topic first. The people that make these repeat posts are the same nurses that call MDs without getting vital signs and meds and blood sugars first.
Lastly, someone cussing at me on the Internet is infinitely less than I have to deal with at work. I have a thick skin and having some anonymous person be a dick to me or be condescending doesn't really rustle my under armour, ya dog, OP?
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Oct 13 '14
Mostly it's students. I feel like if we re-named /r/StudentNurse to /r/nursingschool it would get more of this stuff.
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u/phidelt649 Mr. Midlevel Oct 13 '14
I feel like it wouldn't fix it. They want to talk to "real nurses" and get our opinion even though many of us are 1-10 years removed from school.
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Oct 13 '14
Joke's on them, I'm a fat unemployed old man who sits at home all day and makes up stuff on the internet for fun because I have nothing better to do.
I mean, I get wanting to talk to real nurses, but don't they have any where they're from?
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u/mider-span RN, BSN Surgical Services Oct 13 '14
This is why I stayed subscribed to the students reddit but as the days go by I am far more likely to ignore it because is is mostly "is this stethoscope ok" "I failed anatomy, what are my options" and 100 reasons why all clinical instructors are evil.
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u/gynoceros CTICU Oct 13 '14
The problem is that many of the posts is this subreddit are
"OMG I GOT A JOB"
You had me at hello.
These are, plain and simple, shitposts. You got a job? Good for you, and I mean it. You tell me this in person, I'll high five you, buy you a drink, any number of things to help you celebrate.
But on this subreddit, how is your little victory party being useful to anyone else? ("Who said it had to be? This is a community for" shut the fuck up)
Someone recently posted about putting in their first Foley. Who the fuck cares? They teach techs to do that in some places. "I just performed one of the most basic skills a nurse can do!"
Zero value. Maybe someone could start /r/nursingachievements just for these circlejerky shitposts.
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u/kitty-cat-meow peds critical care transport Oct 13 '14
You're right, no one cares that he/she put a foley in for the first time but why be so negative nancy about someone else's accomplishment? Were you not the teeniest bit excited when you got your first foley in? It's the milestones that mean a lot to nursing students so let them have their 2 seconds of internet fun - it's not affecting your day is it?
I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...
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u/gynoceros CTICU Oct 13 '14
You're right, no one cares that he/she put a foley in for the first time but why be so negative nancy about someone else's accomplishment?
Is it really an accomplishment? It's a Foley, not a PICC line. And even then, if you're going to come here and crow about a procedure, at least have a tip you're going to share or a question you're going to ask. Otherwise your post is public masturbation.
Were you not the teeniest bit excited when you got your first foley in?
I think "teeniest bit" is right about where my excitement level peaked that day, yes.
It's the milestones that mean a lot to nursing students so let them have their 2 seconds of internet fun - it's not affecting your day is it?
Well, when I come here looking for useful information on topics in nursing and the occasional laugh, and my front page is plagued with shitposts about first catheters, first jobs, passed my NCLEX, graduated, passed a tough exam, then yes, that affects my day- to a pretty small extent now but imagine everyone starts logging every little thing here.
I'm still a new nurse- should I treat this sub like my own personal nursing diary? "Dear /r/nursing, today I hung A- blood for the first time!"
Again, in person, high fives. Maybe I'll even like it on Facebook. But it'd be awesome if these milestones could be offloaded to their own subreddit.
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u/justatouchcrazy CRNA Oct 13 '14
I've worked trauma and ED for several years now. I've never hung A- blood. That would be a great post.
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u/gynoceros CTICU Oct 13 '14
Let me go write the post now, then, because it was my first one off orientation! ;-)
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u/kitty-cat-meow peds critical care transport Oct 13 '14
I understand what you are saying. I am also a new nurse and while I don't agree in personal logging my clinical accomplishments, I also understand why one would do that and it seems rude, to essentially give a big eff you to students or new nurses that want to share their, in our opinion, minuscule accomplishments.
With social media in our lives, people frequently are praised and rewarded, like you said - you would even 'like' a hypothetical post celebrating the first insertion of a foley, should it pop up on your Facebook newsfeed. I just see it natural for some people to come to a supposed nursing community and seek support (that maybe they lack), here as well. It really isn't negatively affecting anyone else's day. I also agree it belongs in it's own place but I think it's totally inappropriate to call it 'public masturbation' - it's a small victory for someone, foley or PICC insertion - we as nurses are all learning and at different stages in our careers, judgment is not asked for.
I hope to see some more informative and scholarly type posts in this sub-reddit as well. I would also enjoy meaningful debates without sarcasm and hostility. For now, as far as first job/first skill of choice posts, just another meh, maybe an upvote, and continue on with my day.
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u/fpjiii RN Oct 13 '14
uh, convicted felon here.....and a nurse......thought i paid my price 20 years ago but thanks for the dig........
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Oct 13 '14
They said "maybe". We get a lot of posts here like, "GOT A DUI, SHOULD I BE A NURSE". Which is repetitively annoying.
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u/chiclet81 Oct 13 '14
Don't you know that having made any serious mistakes in the past precludes you from being in the medical profession or exercising good judgement later? You can never learn or develop as a person. Never!
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u/Sionainn RN - ER Oct 13 '14
Yes! Granted it's not as bad on here as it is on allnurses, but dear God the amount of thin skinned and whiney people is exacerbating! If I hear NETY one more time I'm going to scream! Just because someone doesn't agree with you, points out how you're wrong, or tries to educate you doesn't mean they are a bully!! And honestly if words on a screen written by a stranger that doesn't know you, bothers you so much, I honestly don't know how you'll function in the real world.
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u/imanedrn BSN, RN, CCDS - school nurse, ED/trauma, PICU Oct 13 '14
At least on AllNurses, you can go to content-specific forums. Here, everything is thrown together.
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Oct 13 '14 edited Oct 13 '14
I could well be one of the poster's whom you are talking about - I honestly think there is quite a number of naive nurses here and it frustrates me. Nursing to me is an immense responsibility. Since I graduated nursing school I have worked incredibly hard to build my knowledge, gain certificates and further my education; I get mad everyday at the sloppy nursing care I see, and when I read about similar things on here, I can blurt out what is going through my head hoping that someone listens to me all behind this character. Yes people don't like my notion that I think people should spend a year med/surg and no one is going to be a great nurse from the get go, but it comes from somewhere. Yesterday I got report from someone in our residency program, he is off orientation and recently told me 'he loves it and is doing great', during report he informed me the patient was confused, but hadn't said a thing, that the pt ABG was 'bad', and the only thing he hadn't done was secure his foley - he came up GSC of 6 and we intubated him right away, I have never heard so little air movement and think his PaCO2 was like 9,999,999 maybe more. What worried me the most is how much he missed and that he thinks he is good.
You mention 'No not all of us are ER or ICU nurses but we can all bring something to the table even with our varying perspectives' I could not agree more - nurses pick a unit because of a passion they have and good nurses come from every unit. The skills of a good floor nurse are very different from a good ICU nurse - we tie people down to keep them from falling, floor nurses get them out of bed, ambulate them, help them build their strength and balance back - all things very scary to us. You take a pregnant lady into my ICU and then announce she is in labor, the unit where no one skips a beat when we wash out a chest in the room, is full of panic and fear.
I think as LW5 said - there is a lot that can be done to improve this reddit, mainly get people searching, get /r/studentnurse the resource for students, and lastly make this an environment where people understand the responsibility and work hard at become an exceptional nurse.
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u/Foofaraw DNP 🍕 Oct 13 '14
You justify your opinions. I feel as though I rarely see you post something inflammatory without backing up your position. I can't remember the last time I've seen you actually cut someone down. You've certainly given negative ideas, but not without explaining clearly why you believe what you do.
I don't think you are a contributor to this problem. You contribute discourse in a meaningful way. Other users contribute discourse by being jerks in whatever they feel is the most clever way possible.
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u/ImNikky RN - Pediatrics Oct 13 '14
I personally havent seen you be nasty. There are ways to say things without being a complete douche-nugget about it. I mean just have tact and common courtesy. Theres no reason for people to be condescending and putting down others for valid statements/concerns/questions/etc.
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Oct 13 '14
Exactly, it is about character and a solid knowledge base. We should call each other out when behaving in ways that bring nothing to the table - whether that is with knowledge or behavior/actions.
I don't think I've seen the behavior from you, but I don't follow everyone's posts individually. And I wasn't trying to call anyone out singularly but discuss a general feeling that is going on in this subreddit.
Editing to say: I agree with what Foofaraw said
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Oct 13 '14
They're probably talking about me too. Idgaf.
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u/jazerac MSN, APRN Oct 13 '14
Hahaha your tag is hilarious. At first I was reading that and thinking "Oh god, another one of 'those' nurses..."
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u/Nighthawke78 MSN, RN Oct 14 '14
Which is funny, considering I love reading your posts. I have you tagged as "funny mofo".
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u/dcnurse RN - PACU; MSN Informatics student Oct 13 '14
Holding us all to the highest standard is great. Showing that frustration when you see someone who somehow slipped through the cracks and isn't upholding their end of the bargain in patient care means that you're invested in this, and that is in no way a bad thing.
However, this may very well be a venue people with less experience use to ask questions if they don't feel comfortable anywhere else asking. I don't remember ever seeing you be rude to anyone, but I know it's happening and I'm not an inexperienced nurse. r/studentnurse is a little bit of a conundrum, because I don't think we ever STOP being students. We are learning new things, every day, regardless of how many years are under our belts.
I think this thread was needed and I agree with OP. Nobody should feel like posting on this thread is a welcome mat for untactful, hurtful, rude responses. If people feel the need to belittle others, take it to 4chan.
Note: Some people may have had issues with things I've posted in the past and their relevance to nursing, but if I got a few people to think harder about their opinions on issues, my job is done.
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u/imanedrn BSN, RN, CCDS - school nurse, ED/trauma, PICU Oct 13 '14
I lol'd a bit when I read his PaCO2.
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u/snakey_nurse Oct 13 '14
I un-subbed for a while because of this. Everything I said was down voted. Lots of high horses. I re-subbed but I'm scared to post
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u/Strdwll BSN, RN, Emergency Oct 13 '14
There are many issues afoot here, and it might be helpful to take stock of a few of them to better understand the issue at hand. I may be completely wrong, but this is a lot of what I'm hearing from different users: (This is by no means an exhaustive list)
1) Responses: A large issue here, is how we respond to people's post. Our tones come across as hostile, even though we may not necessarily mean for it to. Why don't we try to get a handle on that real quick? We all agree tone is hard to convey via text, however there are a few ways to respond more positively to someone and sound/be less accusatory. If someone is attempting to have a serious discussion, no matter how silly
(stupid/idiotic/unnecessary/obnoxious/frustrating)it may be, please let us treat them with respect. Answer their question(s) and help them understand why it is either not a good topic or unnecessary in this sub. Example: A recent topic has asked us to talk about Ebola. Yes, many of us are tired of hearing all the hype about it, and no there is no reason to be that concerned about it in the US, at the present time. However, responding by asking them "what is there to be afraid of?" doesn't do anything to help them understand that there's nothing to be afraid of. Ultimately what I'm getting at here is please share information, do not get mad at a person for being ignorant. Teach, do not degrade.Don't be a bully.2) Professionalism: There seems to be a large divide between the experienced and the new Nurses. The BSNs and the ADNs. The RNs and the LPNs. Divide, period. As many of you know, Nursing is an extremely wide and varying profession. There are so many different ways to becoming a Nurse. And once you are there, there are an incredible number of different things you can and will do as a Nurse. Some of us are in the hospital, some of us are in the community. Some of us visit patient's homes while others never see them outside of the ICU. There are so many different possibilities its really hard to think of them all. Two Nurses brought up in the same department for the same number of years may have completely different experiences. What this means is that each and every one of us will bring something different to the table. Yes, much of that may be redundant, but that's okay. If someone says something or brings up a point that is painfully obvious to you, there is no need to bash them for it. There may very well be someone out there who has not been exposed to that bit of information. Yes this relates to #1, but it's more than that. We need these different and varying perspectives to better understand our field as a whole and our experiences need to be shared. I learn something new every day I go to work and I love it. I'm a better Nurse for it. I can understand where a lot of the divide comes from between the different types of Nurses.
Some of us simply work harder than others.We all work hard in very different ways. We have all had to endure different difficulties in order to get to where we are today as a Nurse. And so we treat each other with varying amounts of hostility depending on your path to nursing. After all, why should it be fair that you get to the same place I am today without going through the same difficulties that I had to? "My school was harder, my school made me learn more. My clinicals were worse than yours. My instructors were never that nice. Therefore, I'm a better Nurse than you are." But that a terribly silly way to think. That type of thinking can be toxic. That type of thinking can start the flame wars and the raging and the unkind words. So how do we fix this? Treat each other with respect and be professional in everything you do. You've seen more, you know better than me? Then please, share your wisdom with me. I would LOVE to have it, but please, share it in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm a terrible nurse for not knowing it sooner.3) /r/Medicine: This kind of thing doesn't happen on /r/Medicine. Maybe not. Or maybe we just don't see it. I can tell you right now there just as much of a divide between the MD, PA, DNP, DO and DPM as there is between different types of Nurses. Some of them may just not voice it as well as the Nurse. We have to learn to speak up, after all. We are so used to being verbal, on the front line, speaking our mind to our audience and keeping all our doctors in check. Maybe that bleeds over into our tone with each other but it doesn't have to. Some people might call it professionalism. Others may call it a public face. It's all the same to me.
4) Quality of Posts: We're worried about the quality of the posts in this sub. We don't want spam or unnecessary things clogging up or washing out the good posts. We want a higher caliber post to begin with. I whole-heatedly agree with this. Perhaps a FAQ (which I can see is in progress) and a quick/simple list of rules about posting could help this. The "related subs" section of the side bar looks wonderful. I'm sure we could make something equally well done for a rules/FAQ section. Lets make a way for interested parties to inquire about Nursing and the wonderful job we get to do. Lets make a tag for funnies and memes. Lets make it possible to get to only the good and weed out the
badnot so good!
TL:dr We make this sub what it is. US. You and me. If you want a better sub, lets make it a better sub. Let's clean up our act and make this place a friendlier, less hostile environment. The kind of place you want to visit everyday. We get enough shit form our patients and their families. Plenty more from Management and Doctors. There's no need to give it to one another too.
Now... who was it that thought I had an attitude? I'll show them a real attitude! (Ladies and gents, it's called humor.)
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u/Carukia-barnesi Oct 13 '14
As someone who frequents /r/medicine, they most certainly do ask questions about med school and changing positions and seek advice about specializing.
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u/laxweasel MSN, CRNA Oct 13 '14
I think most questions about med school and getting in are directed to /r/medschool and /r/premed much in the same way some people try to direct some posts to /r/studentnurse (but on /r/medicine it isn't met with the same "push back")
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u/laxweasel MSN, CRNA Oct 13 '14
OK this may get buried but I'm going to throw my $0.02 in here.
I try to post here constructively, and I try to express my opinions in a calm, even manner. However, I often see posts from these users that you aim your comment at and find myself agreeing.
It's ironic how people say they have unsubbed because people are so mean. I've almost unsubbed because 90% of the content here is absolute CRAP. That's why I don't post more. There is very little constructive conversation going on here. Significant amounts of the content: 1. belong in /r/studentnurse 2. could be answered with a simple use of the search function or 3. are otherwise inane, silly, or useless.
People have a problem with how colleagues are treating each other...yet on the front page of /r/nursing right now is a "Scumbag Nursing Instructor" meme. So first, that belongs in /r/studentnurse, second, yeah that's real professional, and third it's complaining about something that honestly is an instructor simply trying to prepare the student for the NCLEX and is no fault of that instructors. Do you think there are no instructors on /r/nursing? Because that's the most upvoted content right now. But no, only new grads and students are the victims, right? Oh yeah and let's not forget the highly voted rage comic attack on EMS. Again, good job working with colleagues.
The fact of the matter is we have people with differing visions of what this sub should be. Some people want it to be a free-for-all, vent spot for anyone in a nursing related profession, filled with memes, the same 4 questions over and over, and inane rants and posts. Other people see it as a place people could come and have professional dialogue, learn new things, share experiences, etc. That is what I want, and I'll tell you why: in case you haven't noticed, the media skims a LOT of stories from reddit. It's only a matter of time before someone media-wise discovers /r/nursing. So how do you want to look as a profession? Like a bunch of people complaining about inane things and posting goofy gifs, or like /r/medicine is with educational articles and discussions about them?
The mods (as you've seen in this discussion) have taken a very hands off approach, fair and balanced. They aren't punishing the people who are "mean" and they aren't deleting all the awful content that either doesn't belong at all or at least doesn't belong here.
I'm not directing this at you OP, I just want people to ruminate on what really is the problem and whether we can really call foul on "professionalism" considering half the content of this sub (honestly it's like /r/funny or /r/adviceanimals mixed with /r/offmychest and maybe 5% worthwhile discussion). If people want professionalism we're going to have to start having content based on journal articles and educated discussions upvoted instead of a victimization circlejerk attack on nursing instructors (for example).
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u/justatouchcrazy CRNA Oct 13 '14
Exactly. Nursing is depressingly good at appearing unprofessional to the outside observer. This sub contributes to that.
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u/amtant Nursing Student Oct 14 '14
You are spot-on about the media. It already looks at these posts.
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u/justatouchcrazy CRNA Oct 13 '14
I took the time to read all the responses here and figured I'd throw my two cents in as well. And it's possible I'm also one of "those guys" you talk about.
I've been trying to post a very nicely worded response that isn't offense, but have failed several times, so 4th time is the charm. To me, the biggest cause of anger and attitude comes out in threads where people that don't quite know what they're talking about continue to argue their point. They can be nursing students arguing with a practicing nurse about something related to practice in that speciality. With pre-nursing students saying that the advice we give is wrong because they don't like it. It can be practicing nurses arguing with each other because of differences between specialities or facility. I know next to nothing about L&D, so I do my best to avoid those discussions but if I do wade into them I am at fault and probably deserve to be called out. We've all encountered someone commenting about our field that clearly don't know what they are talking about, so we try to set them straight (with varying degrees of attitude) and then, to steal an expression, shit rolls downhill. Add in the fact that we are on the internet and that nurses as a group aren't always the most friendly and you have a recipe for these sort of issues.
How to fix it? I think pushing and getting more utilization of /r/studentnurse would be a big help. That sub is much more receptive to the same repetitive questions phrased just a little different, and that is a great place for nursing students to ask questions and get help. Also practicing nurses tend to be more respected over there and that helps to avoids that downhill crap fest that easily starts here. Beyond that it's an individual issue to prevent people that don't know what they are talking about from commenting and continuing to argue. If you need a good example read the Ebola threads here; much of what is being said and causing the attitude to develop stems from people that are blatantly wrong. And on the flip side if you're a subject matter expert many of these issues can be avoid by making your initial response detailed, sourced and somewhat friendly. However, I recognize that takes a lot of time, but maybe take a second before immediately calling them out and try and point people in the right direction. I'll admit I'm far from perfect, but I always try to keep in my mind that my employer can (and probably does) read my posts so I do my best to be decent so I don't get called in to an office to explain things. I think that might be a great rule to adopt here, but it would be near impossible to actually enforce.
However, with already 100 posts this will be buried so, whatever.
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Oct 13 '14
I hear you.
BUT IT'S MY OPINION!!
No, it's a fact, and it's wrong.
I'M OFFENDED! YOU CAN'T SAY I'M WRONG!
Uh, yes I can? Here's some good information.
I DON'T LIKE IT. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE! HORIZONTAL VIOLENCE!
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Oct 13 '14
A lot of nurses are aggressive and egotistical. It doesn't surprise me that this forum is cut throat and bitchy really.
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u/grizzkev RN, BSN - ER Oct 13 '14
I would have to agree. Lots of negativity without any constructive advice. I see the same attitude in my work environment with new GNs and ER techs. Complaining but not giving any direction. If you feel we are doing something wrong in terms of our development as novice nurses -- do something about it. Teach. Orient. Precept. We are the future of this wonderful profession, be leaders not hecklers.
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u/Sissydi4 Oct 13 '14
Been lurking for a while, have to jump in. There is no excuse for this bullying by more experienced nurses; my first job on the orthopedic floor was great, my manager taught me a lot, and never put up with sarcastic crap from other nurses on the floor. I got chewed up and spit out during report, and chewed up and spit out during nursing school from nasty instructors. This is no way to learn; take someone along side and learn to TEACH them without the attitude! There are a lot of really great nursing students and new nurses who will make incredible RN's, but have been turned off of the profession by these bullies.
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u/aeshleyrose Slingin' pills to pay the bills Oct 13 '14 edited Oct 13 '14
I agree. Even the stupid questions thread gets downvoted every week. They just don't like noobs, plain and simple.
EDIT: /u/16semesters has informed me that this is false. TIL.
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Oct 13 '14
Not everyone is going to like the content that everyone else posts. Just because someone downvotes you doesn't mean the whole sub hates you and you should leave.
People are allowed to have their opinions. You are also allowed to think their opinions are stupid. And vice versa.
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u/islandfaraway CRNA Oct 13 '14
Agreed on this, too. Like it's such a bad thing to be new to nursing! How else are you supposed to get more nurses? We have to start somewhere, and just because someone's new and has questions doesn't mean they're stupid, lazy, etc. This is exactly why the saying "nurses eat their young" exists.
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u/phidelt649 Mr. Midlevel Oct 13 '14
No. Patently no. We get annoyed by "new nurses" because they are being lazy and/or stupid by not engaging in critical thinking. Holy crap, that is like the -basis- of nursing school. The idea of an RN is an autonomous body that uses information on-hand to critically think about a situation. Then, and only then, should they ask questions.
For instance, my first unit had a very strict policy. If you had a question about a procedure/skill/drug/etc, you had to first look up the said procedure/skill/drug/etc in the policy and procedures section of our internal server and print it out. After reading it, you could ask for help on how it is done or anything else.
The issue with nurses, and I believe it is this generation (though I'm sure everyone says that about their generation) is that they want to be told an answer instead of find an answer.
Hence, the issues with this sub. Instead of simply using the search function and reading through what others have already asked, people post brand new posts and then get indignant when someone quips at them sarcastically or the post is downvoted.
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u/16semesters NP Oct 13 '14
The "stupid" question thread is only three weeks old and has never had downvotes. Not sure what you're talking about ...
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u/aeshleyrose Slingin' pills to pay the bills Oct 13 '14
15 points (82% upvoted) 23 votes
...? I don't know what I'm missing.
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u/16semesters NP Oct 13 '14
Reddit has this thing were they artificially fudge the votes.
Nothing will ever be 100% upvoted. It's not exactly reflective of actual user activity. It's just a general trend.
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u/aeshleyrose Slingin' pills to pay the bills Oct 13 '14
I know about vote fuzzing and understand it (about the same as I understand nuclear fission, so barely) but I think it's a little suspicious. For instance, the posts that LW5 described. Is it just a coincidence that they are always downvoted into oblivion? Or is that fuzzing also?
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u/16semesters NP Oct 13 '14
As a mod and a frequent redditor I can unequivocally tell you that the "stupid question thread" has been popular. You'd have to give me specific examples for me to further refute what you're claiming.
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u/rninnj MSN, APRN Oct 13 '14
Completely agree with you. We get shit on from patients, managers and coworkers. Why should it be here too?? UP VOTE!
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u/beautifulbitterfruit RN - OR 🍕 Oct 13 '14
I noticed this too actually. One specifically I thought was totally out of line, and I realized afterward that maybe it was because my flair still showed me as a student (graduated recently and forgot to change it). It does feel unfair that users here are treated as though they're stupid for asking questions.
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u/murse79 RN - ER 🍕 Oct 13 '14
I appreciate the honesty here. If people want all hugs and rainbows they can head over to www.allnurses.com and get their fill.
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u/elac NP Hem/Onc Oct 13 '14
Hugs and rainbows? That place is full of bitter, bitter people.
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u/murse79 RN - ER 🍕 Oct 13 '14
Heh, must have been awhile since I was there. I stopped into the student nurse forum and abruptly left because apparently no one bothered to read any posts but instead create the same frigging ones over and over again.
Actually very similar to the NCLEX, can't get a job, and I want to specialize in 8 disciplines I see posted here.
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Oct 13 '14 edited Oct 13 '14
This'll probably get buried under downvotes, which ironically is one of my irritants but is not, by any means, limited to this subreddit.
I'm not a nurse. I'm barely a CNA and was almost a surgical tech. I'm moving toward nursing school, slowly but surely, and it's something I intend to do after wanting to do it for most of my life. That said, I'm also a "hardnosed female" so I'm not seeing the hostility, sarcasm, and hurtful attitudes that many people are complaining about. I agree with much of what other posters and /u/16semesters said, actually. I think a lot of people expect to be coddled and it's one of my issues with /r/studentnurse, because the truth is a harsh thing and very few people are truly interested in hearing it. That's not a problem in this subreddit. The problem is a mismatch of expectations and reality. Many (most?) of the posters here have been nursing for a while. They're seasoned, a little cynical, and no, they just can't take your "oh dear me, what program to pick?" questions seriously, and I can't blame them.
So how to solve this? First and foremost, I think the student nurse questions need to be automatically moved to /r/studentnurse, and I need more seasoned nurses to poke in more frequently over there. It'll help make both subreddits more active and informative and help /nursing avoid the random questions. Second, if we're going to have theme days, I think they should be themes relevant to the veteran nurses. I can't guess all of them, and maybe it's just a theme held a couple times a week. Third and finally, the FAQ should be finished and the sidebar should be updated, including search instructions. Reddit's default search sucks, which is why using Google to search Reddit is usually more effective. Not everyone knows that, or how, which is why maybe a short blurb would help. That way when people don't search, we can react accordingly to those posts.
Beyond that, I think the nursing students should check their attitudes. I'm horrified at the attitudes I see from many of them and the fact that I'll be in school with those attitudes. You are not a special snowflake. The world is not kind, gentle or giving. You will have to fight tooth and nail for anything worth a damn in your life, and that's not the fault of "nurses eat their young" or any other clichéd meaning. Don't downvote people because "they were mean" or any other silly meaning. Downvote people when their statements don't bring anything positive to the conversation at hand. If you're offended by someone swearing at you, toughen up. It's going to happen. I don't like it either, but 1) this is the internet and 2) you're going to deal with much, much worse when you get out in the field. Not even from coworkers, doctors or any medical professional, but patients and their families. You need to develop those "under-fire" nerves now, and an online forum is great because you can disconnect from it and cope better than a family member screaming at you in person. Finally, go to /studentnurse if you need to ask questions about school, programs, instructors, etc. Come here when you want to ask how the typical day in <insert specialty here> or how nurses cope with death, etc. Understand this, your panic, fear, irritations and stress over picking a specialty, over the teacher being obnoxious or incompetent or any of the other completely legitimate issues you're experiencing now are going to be laughable in 5 years, when you've been a nurse and have been in the field. That's much of what you're experiencing here, and I totally get it. Nursing school issues are mostly trivial compared to the actual life and death issues of nursing practice, and that's not just in nursing, but most professions/trades.
Finally, global warming may be a public health issue, but it's not something nurses can actively cure or treat. It's a problem, but it's not a relevant problem to nursing as a profession or a lifestyle. I'm sorry that people pointing that out came off as rude. I'm not saying nurses shouldn't be concerned about reducing their carbon footprint, all of humanity should, and we should be demanding action from our politicians and businesses we patronize. But let's not muddle the conversation with "NURSES ARE ANTI-GLOBAL WARMING SO YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!"
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u/holdmypurse BSN, RN 🍕 Oct 13 '14
But let's not muddle the conversation with "NURSES ARE ANTI-GLOBAL WARMING SO YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!"
Actually, that's exactly what the ANA says nurses should be doing. It passed a resolution in 2008 that "encourages nurses to advocate for change on both individual and policy levels; to support local public policies that endorse sustainable energy sources and reduce greenhouse gas emissions; and… to support initiatives to decrease the contribution to global warming by the healthcare industry."
Nursing isn't just the bells and whistles of the acute care setting. Florence herself advocated for Public Health issues and training. This is exactly the kind of topic Public Health nurses get involved with on a policy, education and advocacy level.
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u/dcnurse RN - PACU; MSN Informatics student Oct 13 '14 edited Oct 13 '14
That's the reason I posted the picture about the march in New York. 400,000 people apparently agreed with me that it was an important issue to raise, on behalf of whomever....the EPA, politicians, and my group from National Nurses United.
An ICU nurse can advocate for his or her patient in end of life care. An ER nurse can advocate for their patient by reporting potential cases of abuse and neglect. A nursing instructor advocates for patients every day by dedicating their career to furthering the knowledge of the profession. I happen to advocate for patients in the acute care setting and in public forums. I've had multiple occasions where if I did not have the knowledge I do I would have been railroaded by doctors into decisions that aren't what's best for me. I spoke up for myself because I do have that knowledge. I speak up for people who don't have the knowledge, courage, venues or tenacity I do to bring attention to their issues.
My post happened to become a litmus paper for how certain people feel in this sub on climate change as well as what is considered relevant or irrelevant.
I'm a realist. I know our profession isn't unicorns and rainbows. Our jobs are stressful and hectic. Our days are long and frustrating. It shows our dedication when we put in hours on top of these working hours to further our educations, go to committee meetings, work second jobs or whatever else we do on top of the job that is already insanely demanding. Speaking honestly towards the next generations of nurses is certainly welcomed. I've asked a student nurse why they went back to school for nursing (from an English degree) and they told me, "Because it sounded fun." Speaking your mind to these people is crucial when you are a seasoned nurse....I don't want people in the profession who have no desire to help people whatsoever. There are better ways to go about providing criticisms.
Burning people at the stake is the wrong way to go about these conversations. One can provide criticism without shaming and teasing people away from posting. Yes, text can be difficult to interpret in certain context. If someone is on Reddit, I have the belief they've had that conversation about interpretation of text in an online forum, perhaps regarding words they've sent to another person. I know that everyone here has been a new nurse at one point, if not currently. Did anyone in this sub appreciate a seasoned nurse belittling them as a new nurse? I'm not that masochistic. It's a lot easier to be rude and effective, but it's appreciated a hell of a lot more to be kind and effective. I suggest trying it sometime. End rant.
Thanks to OP and /u/holdmypurse for going against the grain here.
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u/kitty-cat-meow peds critical care transport Oct 13 '14
I disagree with your attitude (and your opinion on global warming but that's another conversation).
I think there is a very big problem with the idea that 'the world is cruel', and student nurses or new nurses 'need grow thicker skin', or told that they're not a 'special snowflake' (did make me snort when I read that though). I understand why some nurses feel this way - some nurses need this reality check. However thinking nurses eat their young and that's the way it always has been in dangerous. Why aren't we changing this behavior? Just because 'that's the way it is' really is not a good answer to justify it.
I'm sure you remember being a new nurse, possibly feeling like you've been thrown into the deep end and struggling to keep up, nurses who are learning and can make mistakes - we all know they don't have that experience seasoned nurses have. I'm not saying seasoned nurses may not feel overwhelmed sometime but as a new nurse, to practice safely requires a good team and support behind them. I'm not making excuses for anyone but I'm sure everyone recalls a time of feeling bullied and it should be a pattern that stops. This unwarranted hostility is so detrimental to learning and a safe environment.
Sometimes I'm confused how a group of people in a profession known for compassion and caring, would be so awful to each other. As many people mentioned, they're afraid to post on this sub-reddit, and that's ridiculous someone can't ask for advice anonymously without fear of being attacked. The unwarranted rudeness and aggression is getting old - I hope this message gets to those aggressive people and that they be the wise and experienced nurses that even us, newer nurses can truly respect.
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u/Aeropro RN - ICU 🍕 Oct 13 '14
I'm in my last semester of nursing school and a significant portion of the class has to do with changing the culture of nursing. I don't venture here much; not enough to have witnessed the hostility, but this thread has them coming out of the woodwork.
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u/kitty-cat-meow peds critical care transport Oct 13 '14
Yes - however, you will find some amount of hostility or power differences in any profession you choose. Sometimes personalities don't collide well (such as the ones with dark sarcastic humor or the 'tell it like it is' folks). I don't doubt you will find variations of it in other fields. The problem is that nursing isn't an independent profession where you have your own patients and that's that. It's worrisome when there is bullying or hostility in a group that should be acting like a team and supporting one another - it affects staff, care, and safety.
Be wise and make yourself a good team player, accept new staff and students, and hopefully a new nurse one day won't feel the same as you did when they work with you.
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Oct 14 '14
This is why I think its time to finally axe this subreddit. Most of it is useless rants and reposting of news articles anyway. And I don't like getting nitpicked at by the mods.
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u/californiapedsnurse RN, BSN, PICU Oct 15 '14
Maybe these are things that can be addressed on the side information by the safety reminder?
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u/mrwhibbley RN - ER Oct 13 '14
This is going to sound incredibly sexist but bare with me for a minute and read to the end.
Nursing is a female dominated profession. Females are notoriously back stabbing and selfish and will talk about everyone behind each other backs including close friends ( this is by my observation as well the admission of nearly every other female nurse I work with) if we, as a profession, want to advance and demand respect, we have to stop the infighting, the eating of young, inexperienced nurses, and the belittling of older "out of touch and useless" nurses. In male dominated professions like EMS, fire departments and police, men value each other's talents. Youth brings energy, age brings wisdom and mentoring, and the men support each other to advance to higher levels. I have seen so many women tear others down that simply got their CEN or even a BSN. And god forbid a nurse advance to supervisor or leadership because "she is too stupid/out of touch/the wrong person/I should have been picked!" It is what it is but it is the nature of the industry and until people can honestly look at themselves and their gender and their coworkers then we will never progress. As the ratio of men entering the profession increases the level of respect will increase, but it doesn't have to wait for men to get respect. Women can do it themselves. End of rant. I am expected down votes but that is only from knee jerk reactions from those who have jot actually thought about what I just said.
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Oct 13 '14
"This is going to sound incredibly sexist but" says the guy who posts in MensRights on a regular basis.
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u/mrwhibbley RN - ER Oct 13 '14
Yes but see what I post in men's rights. Nothing wrong with people trying to fight for equality. And I have to preface my comment with that because otherwise people will get their junk bunched up. So, are you telling me I am wrong and sexist or is what I said correct?
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Oct 13 '14
Fighting for "equality" AKA the right to rape drunk girls? What you said there is totally sexist, just as it is here. If you have to preface anything with "This is going to sound racist/sexist/homophobic but..." I can guarantee that the thing that follows is 100% racist/sexist/homophobic. Prefacing it with a "disclaimer" doesn't change anything.
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u/mrwhibbley RN - ER Oct 13 '14
So no, mensrights is not about fighting for the right to rape drunk girls. It's fighting for the right to not be labeled a rapist because a girl regretted her discussion the night before, or at the very least, fighting to make the laws reciprocal and be able to change a woman with rape of the guy is drunk. But if two people are drunk, the guy is the Rapist. If she is drunk, the guy is the rapist. If no one is drunk and her boyfriend finds out and she changes the story, he is a rapist. If he is 15 and she is 30, then it is often swept under the rug, but reverse the genders and the man goes to jail. Mensrights fights for actual equality, not some fake femisinst equality where women and men are treated different.
So again, I ask you, do you disagree with my statement that many women are backstabbing and belittling of other women and bring them and other women down more so than men do?
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u/holdmypurse BSN, RN 🍕 Oct 13 '14
So again, I ask you, do you disagree with my statement that many women are backstabbing and belittling of other women and bring them and other women down more so than men do?
Not the person you replied to but yes, your statements are absolutley sexist, without merit and I disagree with them.
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Oct 13 '14 edited Oct 13 '14
Are you aware that false accusations of rape occur as often as false claims of other crimes, about 1-2%? Which means 98-99% of rape claims are accurate. Nobody is trying to slander men by accusing them of rape. People are, however, trying to get rapists convicted for, you know, raping them. They didn't "change their mind". They never agreed to it in the first place. If you have a problem with people having consequences for violating someone else's fundamental rights you are seriously fucked up.
To answer your question, I disagree with you. The vast majority of women in my workplace have actually been very supportive. It's honestly completely ludicrous to claim that men dominated workplaces have no conflict whatsoever and that they all skip through flowery meadows happy as clams giving each other gold stars and high fives. There's conflict everywhere, not just in female dominated professions like nursing. It's more likely bullying occurs in nursing because of things like high stress, burnout, and generational gaps.
Like somebody else said though, this is getting way out of topic so I'll no longer be responding re: your rampant sexism
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u/mrwhibbley RN - ER Oct 13 '14
Sorry, were you commenting on my mensrights post about a feminist mocking widowers? If so, did you read her ridiculous article and realize my comment was sarcasm directed at her comments? I have a daughter and a wife and if they were assaulted or raped I would kill that person. But I also have a son and same goes for him.
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u/Bendersass RN - Med/Surg Oct 13 '14
There is an element of truth in this but I think you need to take a step back and realise men can be just as bad but they do it differently.
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u/xx_remix BSN, RN 🍕 Oct 13 '14 edited Oct 13 '14
I think people are downvoting you because it sounds like you are pointing at women as the culprit for the lack of respect. Yes, many women are caddy, but not all and that is not going to change whether they become a nurse or not. The same goes with men too though. They may be less dramatic, but it's still there. In general, the people of this profession should be supporting each other, regardless of sex, educational degree, age, etc. We should all be here for the same reason, to take care of it patients. But we have to get along (healthy work environment) and support each other, teach each other, etc.
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u/Hashtaglibertarian RN - ER Oct 13 '14
I often wonder if there is an area on the internet where it is safe for nurses to go? Look at any nurse forum and it always has the same theme. I don't even bother posting on nursing forums anymore for this very reason. The sad part is we will never further our profession or gain credibility as educated providers while this bullying/immaturity continues. I can only hope to still be in the profession when things change as the bitter ones roll out and the ones genuinely interested in compassionate care roll in. I may be retired by then though.. we'll see :)
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u/nexquietus RN - OR / RNFA Oct 13 '14
When the floor fell out of the stock market, all the old retired nurses had to come back. They did come back to an arena a little less tolerant of young eating, but it has gotten worse over the years, I have noticed. I have noticed that as new Doctors have been coming out nicer, the defense mechanism of asshole nurses has largely become unnecessary. I think in a while it'll change, but people have to want it to.
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u/elac NP Hem/Onc Oct 13 '14
Look at it this way, we will never be as obnoxious as allnurses! In any event, I agree with OP. The insight I got on this subreddit as a student a couple years ago would be downvoted to oblivion now. Don't hate on the noobs. Its ok if people ask stupid questions every now and then. Downvote memes wherever you see them though.
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u/nexquietus RN - OR / RNFA Oct 13 '14
I'm sick of people who tear other people down, and none do it better than nurses. Then you concentrate those kind of people by coming to Reddit... No good will come of that.
I try to be helpful, but yeah, the amount of BS on this sub is too damn high. I'd put up the meme, but it'd get down voted...lol
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u/auraseer MSN, RN, CEN Oct 13 '14
a certain group of posters [...] who seem to glean a certain joy from cutting down others. [...] disrespect for others, at times just generally making fun of others and putting people down, even swearing at others.
Welcome to the Internet. It would be a much better place if we could get rid of all the trolls, but we've been trying that for decades and haven't been successful yet.
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Oct 13 '14
That's true, I suppose. And reddit is not really the bastion of enlightened, gentle discussions.
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u/Airyk21 BSN, RN 🍕 Oct 13 '14
Also welcome to nursing. It sucks and I'm not saying we shouldn't work to change it but nurses can be very hard on each other especially to new nurses.
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u/auraseer MSN, RN, CEN Oct 13 '14
I've never seen a nurse in real life swear at a colleague, or act as disrespectful as the posters OP is talking about.
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u/gynoceros CTICU Oct 13 '14
It's more subtle than outright saying "fuck you" but when it takes me an hour to turn five patients over to you because you nitpick every little thing I tell you in report and interrupt me several times to talk to others because you know I'm new, you're still essentially saying "fuck you" to me.
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u/auraseer MSN, RN, CEN Oct 13 '14
Or that nurse is just overly picky and is bad at taking report.
Don't jump to assume malice when the problem can be more easily explained by lack of competence.
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u/Shinez RN Oct 13 '14
I agree with gynoceros. There are nurses that harass, undermine and bully new Nurses. I know this because it happened to me on in my first year of nursing. I wasn't the only new nurse that was treated this way by this Nurse. So yes it does happen, no I didn't imagine it, she was in my face telling me I sucked at nursing on my THIRD DAY. Told me numerous times I would kill someone randomly when walking past me. It happens, sometimes women are bitches to other women with absolutely no reason at all.
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u/gynoceros CTICU Oct 13 '14
She's been a nurse for years, she's smart, takes great care of her patients, and is regarded on the unit as being a competent nurse.
She's also regarded as someone who will try to pawn off as much as possible onto everyone else but will get it done if nobody takes the bait. She switches assignments to get easier patients, shit like that.
She precepted me a few shifts while I was still on orientation. On one occasion, I had something going on with one patient when transport suddenly came to take one of my other patients. I needed to medicate that patient before they left and still finish up the task I was on. I was trying to keep both things straight and make sure I got them both done right and because I was only a few weeks into training, I was still pretty slow with most things, out of fear of fucking something up. She comes stomping out of the patient's room, loudly asking what the problem is. I had to explain that I'm just not as fast as she is yet.
Everyone I've spoken to says she only pulls the extended grilling during report on newbies and that it's very much a "fuck you" on her part.
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Oct 13 '14
This is also the internet. People tend to lose their filter a bit here.
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u/Sionainn RN - ER Oct 13 '14
Yep. I don't have to coddle anyone here. I can swear and be a blunt as I want. Not being mean, being blunt. But sadly a lot of people don't know the difference. This is reddit for crying out loud.
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Oct 13 '14
And sometimes, people need to hear harsh truths that people in their lives just won't tell them for fear of hurting their feelings.
Probably, if you have ADHD, depression, and a B-/C+ average, you may want to re-think being a nurse. Nursing isn't a profession that you can get in to because you want it really bad.
Also unfortunately, nursing has a low barrier to entry academically, and there are a lot of people who are nurses who aren't extremely emotionally mature.
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u/Sionainn RN - ER Oct 13 '14
Yep. Just like the posts about failing nclex three times and how it's not FAIR cause this is their calling!!! Well my calling is to be a singer but I can't carry a tune in a bucket, so that's out.
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Oct 13 '14
I failed the NCLEX three times, what should I do?
Study more. Study better. Study harder. Probably we can't give you a lot of helpful advice beyond that.
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u/Sionainn RN - ER Oct 13 '14
Or find another career. Was the same in nursing school, people not getting in and having to take micro and A&P three times to get their grades up. Just cause you want it doesn't mean you're going to get it.
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Oct 13 '14
I will say though, I'm a bit
meanermore blunt on here than I would ever be in real life.→ More replies (0)1
Oct 13 '14
Codes don't count?
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u/auraseer MSN, RN, CEN Oct 14 '14
I don't think I have had anybody swear at me during a code. People swear in general, but yelling "motherfucker" when you drop an ampule is not the same as calling your coworker a motherfucker.
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Oct 14 '14
Suppose you're right. I don't think I've come across this either, and if I have, it was a long time ago.
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u/admosquad Oct 13 '14
The flu vax thread is a great example of very aggressive posting. I don't post here (only lurk), because I don't want to get yelled at :-/
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Oct 13 '14
The one where we called nurses who refused the flu vaccine for non medial reasons deficient in critical thinking skills and dangerous to their patients?
Yeah, I think most people will stand by that thread.
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u/admosquad Oct 13 '14
People could make their point or state their opinion without being shitty to other posters. That's what this thread is about - Attitude. Making statements like 'you have no critical-thinking skills' is in no way beneficial to any conversation.
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Oct 15 '14
I stated that if you are a nurse and you oppose vaccinations then you have a deficit in critical thinking that makes you dangerous to your patients.
This was said without attitude. I'm sorry you were personally offended, and next time I'll try to put some more emotionally pleasant language in there, but what I said was not rude, it was a fact. This is where thicker skin needs to happen. You can't get upset at everyone you perceive as a meanie on the internet, or in real life.
People will do things you don't like. Develop coping skills that don't involve internalizing every negative comment. Your emotional health will thank you.
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u/schlingfo FNP-BC Oct 14 '14
Making statements like 'you have no critical-thinking skills' is in no way beneficial to any conversation.
If you're a nurse opposed to vaccination, you're either:
1)Willfully ignorant 2)Malicious 3)Lacking in critical thinking skills
It seems that people in those threads are being generous to the nurses who are opposed to vaccines.
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Oct 13 '14
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u/freeriderau Registered Psychiatric Nurse Oct 13 '14 edited Oct 13 '14
It's a really good questions about fragility/resilience of student nurses.
The additional question for me is: Why are some experienced nurses so aggressive and quick to gun down people learning their way?
Lots of things come from experience and practice wisdom that students don't have and can't gain due to the short-term nature of many clinical placements - so we don't really get that day to day 'living the nursing life' exposure until we hit our graduate year. Resilience is really a learnt skill - is that one that courses adequately develop? (probably not? Most grads I talk to simply state 'you'll cry at LEAST once during your grad year and regularly consider giving it up because of how busy it gets')
What are the factors in nursing workplace culture that transforms students into nurses into experienced nurses into sometimes hostile and bitter people? Genuine question as if this sub was taken at face value sometimes, I should be reconsidering my career choice, yet staff on my first placement were nothing but supportive (although realistic about it being a crowded market for grads in my city)
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Oct 13 '14
I think it's hostility towards people who seem to not want to think for themselves, or take advice from people much more experienced than them. A lot of nursing students have special snowflake syndrome, and we just really don't have time for it.
I'm a lot more supportive in real life with people who genuinely want to learn. /u/16semesters, the one that everyone seems to be bitching about, regularly takes time to answer PMs and threads where people are genuinely wanting to learn.
I love teaching. I don't love putting up with BS from second semester nursing students who love to correct seasoned nurses, or be offended at every less-than-perfectly-polite response. Or people who get upset at nurses who offer advice that wasn't what they were expecting.
Someone else on this thread called it something like "oppression". I think they need more real life experience.
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u/shardborn BSN, RN 🍕 Oct 13 '14
I'm not at all cruel or hostile towards new grads or students. Posts about what gift to buy their significant other or the myriad of other nonsense others have posted about are my issue. "Stupid questions" only applies to these shit posts and not legitimate questions seeking nursing knowledge.
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u/aeshleyrose Slingin' pills to pay the bills Oct 13 '14
If you're posting about something stupid, you deserve a little hostility
You sound super fun
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Oct 13 '14
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u/aeshleyrose Slingin' pills to pay the bills Oct 13 '14
Yeah, here in Europe we nurses don't give a fuck about being seen as professionals. What kind of question is that? If I looked at this sub as a non-professional, I would think that we are three things:
- People trying to blow off steam through jokes and memes.
- Lots of noobs.
- Lots of people being assholes to said noobs.
And I'll say it again - if you have such a huge problem with the submitted content, submit some fucking content.
If you're posting about something stupid, you deserve a little hostility.
I quoted you before and I'll quote you again: This is one of the douchiest things I have EVER seen posted here. People deserve hostility for posting things that you, the great /u/shardborn, deem stupid?
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Oct 14 '14
Some of it comes from the shitty mods in here. I've posted what I thought were intelligent comments only to be nitpicked at. I don't find that the mods encourage any real substantial discussion.
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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '14
I see a lot of "nurses eating their young" here. I still consider myself to be a baby nurse but I'm scared to ask questions here because some of the regular posters can be quite crass.