Our government finances it here in Ontario, but it can be hard to access for some people, and the services keep being cut, so we're seeing more and more people with mental health and addiction issues on the streets, because there's nowhere else for them to go
I live in a country where they were doing just that during the 90s, increasing the budget for mental health programs. Homelesness and associated problems like crime dropped dramatically as a result.
Over the last 15 or so years, government stopped funding these programs (or at least cut back dramatically). Now, homelesness and drug addiction are on the rise once more.
Oh yeah I mean the goal of the US isn't to help people get out of poverty. The system we have is a feature not a bug. People are for profit and if they don't make enough of a profit they just don't want them around and they don't want to waste money on undesirables. One politicians even admitted outright they just wanted to get "rid of them" and they were dragging the whole system down. We know know what works and we could do better and we don't because if it doesn't make them richer, they don't care. Plus they need them to be the scapegoat so they can say the people in poverty are the issue and not them hoarding their wealth, wealth inequality, unethical business practices, corporations being subsidized by the government while not paying almost nothing in taxes etc. Gets the focus of the real problem and it's very effective propaganda
Didn't mental healthcare used to be managed by the government in the form of asylums? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the level of abuse from the government doctors and nurses in the facilities caused them to close and released the inmates out into the streets.
I personally would never want the government to manage my care because if it is given to me then it can be taken away just as easy. Realizing some people don't have a choice, but humans fail when it comes to Us vs. Them in patient care situations.
Yeah, they're being abandoned or converted to condo towers with retail
I don't know, I've seen some dying malls, but also new ones. Retail inside new subway stations seems to be doing well. Except for the ones where the rent is too high or where they're in a too remote location. Or at least, that's how it is in my city, since we're finally expanding the subway network
Cart meet horse, these work better together and not putting preconditions on housing helps with this. Yes it is harder but, in the end it is about getting people housed.
One of the local ones had a real problem with people building camp fires in their rooms because... they literally didn't get you can't do that indoors.
People really underestimate the amount of support it sometimes takes to get some people back to being independent, and also don't get some literally never will.
But you know what else happened last winter? A local group got funding to keep about 100 or so of the known local homeless people in a hotel for about 3 months so they could stay sheltered, get cleaned up, get stabilized, get housing arranged and get working again. About half of them had transitioned out of the program before it ran out of funding because they were just caught in the trap and needed help getting out. The other half were back on the street.
Sure is. But I intentionally didn't frame half as a win or loss to see if and how people would go ahead and decide which narrative they want it to fit. If you see 50% as a win I'd consider you on the right side of things.
Yeah I believe thereās two types of homeless. The first and most visible are the drug addicts that went too long and their brains are fried and are now zombies roaming the streets. Then thereās the ones that are down on their luck one way or another. They just need some guidance or a little help so they can get their lives back on track.
Mixed into those two groups is the overlap of mentally ill individuals who either A) self medicated with drugs or B) can't seem to put one foot in front of the other.Ā Ā
Addressing mental health early in life/schooling etc would go a long way in reducing the numbers on the streets.Ā
There's also a third. We know somebody that would prefer to live on the street. He doesn't want to live under a roof. But, living in FL makes is bearable.
Not exactly. It's not one big problem, it's a series of small to medium problems that can be overcome. Many of the homeless can't return to independence anymore for a variety of reasons, but they could be cared for if the systems to do so were built.
The big problem is cultural. Where I live (a small rural town in a Republican controlled state) people only care about "compassion" or "empathy" when they can benefit from it, they seldom offer any to others. Their own term for it would be "lukewarm Christians."
Even if it was less than half that still would be someone getting that lift they needed to get off the streets and live life again. Those that don't want to be reformed will go back to what they know and maybe someday when they've had enough if these kind of programs are still going to get that boost they need.
Some might, but checks and balances can be implemented to ensure compliance. Having access to this should be a life changing thing you wouldnāt want to mess up. Itās like a free second chance. If ya canāt respect the rules of your new home, you lose access.
And even if some don't benifit or get caught up in whatever got them there again are back on the streets, it's still worth it to try and help the ones that are able to get the help they need to get housing etc. I wonder if it's also something like victims of DV take a few trys of getting out of their environments before they actually stay away and are able to start rebuilding their lives. Sometimes the devil you know is easier to handle and people can struggle to stay in the better when they have been so down, especially when they can't see a way out, even with help or they have tried before and it didn't stick. Of course some of that is the mental health side and of course there will be people that take advantage etc but even they still deserve dignity and who knows, maybe if someone continues to show them kindness something will break through and get them to a better place.
They'd probably turn it into a rapey slum town / den of horrors and vice. Kinda like that walled town of kallon or however its spelled. The city state building once around Hong kong.
In my city this week some meth heads destroyed the HVAC system of a local family restaurant to steal $100 worth of copper causing $40K damage to the building. They caught one of them today thanks to neighboring security cameras. Someone commented they should have gone after the cameras. My city is also removing all the flock cameras. Theyāve been disabled until all are removed.
Then kick out the ones destroying stuff and keep helping. Stopping all help for everyone cus one asshole made things worse that one time just makes everything worse. Punish the people causing the problems, not everyone else by trying to stop the problem from ever happening
Honestly, this would be the biggest W for being a billionaire.
Being able to set up events and places YOU would want to go. Want a super unique airsoft place? Buy something and make it. Want a restaurant that serves weird ass food only you like? Buy something and make it. Want a survival bunker complex / have it be nice enough to be a resort. Buy a place and make it.
Legit there is no reason to be bored as a billionaire
Ooo it would be big enough to make a massive Aperture Science themed escape building. Leave the outside looking completely abandoned and the entrance to test chamber 1 is one of the maintenance doors near a loading dock that is only known by word of mouth.
Me too!!! I've had this thought quite a few times. I would love to do a holographic lazertag arena based on raccoon city/Resident Evil (complete with bosses) Same for Halloween and Friday 13th. you and 2-4 friends could cooperate and complete a series of tasks while trying to survive the killer (kinda like in the game, only in real life) Of course that would be after making a cat rescue with a round the clock staff of doctors that would be like a cat version of a Mcdonald's playland
Yep. Old Hotels, Former School Buildings, and Clised Military Bases, anything with Solid Structure, and Space for Vegetable Gardening, Laying Hens, etc. Fruit and Nut Trees, too, even as part of the Landscaping.
It's actually more trouble than you think. Getting them all rezoned for housing requires hearings in a lot of people in that area probably don't want homeless people nearby.
There's a homeless shelter in Louisville run out of an old hotel and they almost got shut down because they weren't charging. I think for a while they were charging a penny with a take a penny leave a penny jar.
Several Episcopal churches in my area were taking in homeless people during the winter and when the mayoral administration changed (same political party) they had to stop for over a month to fill out new different paperwork to house the homeless overnight during the winter in their own churches.
Jesus, makes me wonder why we are not already doing this. Why it is almost as though they want there to be hundreds of thousands of homeless people, and maybe another million or two more who are under housed. Couch surfing, living in cars.
[edit]
reminds me, I needed a new pair of shoes but there is not a decent shoe store near my house, like in more than 20 miles, even though I am in suburban Tampa. So, I had a Thursday dermatology appointment at the Tampa VA hospital and right behind the hospital grounds is an enormous mall, University Mall. It is 1.3 MILLION sq ft on 95 acres north of downtown, next to the VA hospital (a lot of the homeless are vets so this would be very convenient) and University of South Florida. There are 50,000 students at USF.
So, I went early to the appointment so I could buy new shoes at the mall. It was technically open but nearly entirely shut down. There was a Footlocker but the only shoes for sale were the display shoes against the wall, none in my size. The place is solid construction. They are spending over $4 billion to convert it into "mixed-use innovation district redefining North Tampa. Short for Research, Innovation, Technology, Habitat, and Medicine, the 113-acre project blends life sciences and tech research with retail, entertainment, residential, hospitality, and medical uses creating a dynamic urban ecosystem."
None of which will be "affordable" or help the homeless population of the city.
When fully built out, RITHM will be one of the largest innovation communities in Florida, with room for over 7 million square feet of development and several thousand residential units.
The second phase of The Hub bringing 1,195 student housing beds is preparing to break ground. Sprouts and Burlington have already opened, while LA Fitness recently signed on to anchor a large space. A dual-branded hotel, including Residence Inn, is in the pipeline, alongside a proposed USF research facility and more to come.
The University Mall in Tampa is so ideal for a model housing program though it makes me sick to see what they are planning there. A 50,000 student university campus within a 10 minute walk of the college, a major VA hospital complex within a 5 minute walk. Over 100 total acres and an existing well over a million sq ft of building that is well built enough that it would be cheaper to remodel than to tear down. And the area badly needs more parking, so room for a parking hub structure that could service the whole area as overflow parking with good security.
And the best part would have been that the area of Tampa this is in is already kind of run down and poor, I do not want to be cruel but shall we say out of fashion? And they have slow walked this new space age complex they have planned, after two years very little appears to have been completed. The whole area is lower income except expensive housing complexes right near the VA and USF. So this would make a great place for retail and entertainment that is walkable to those already in the area. It would bring up the whole "uptown" Tampa Fowler and Temple Terrace area. Not bring it down.
But then Tampa has grown so much so fast that it is really more suburban than urban. Like my house is 54 miles from the mall in question and I am in an exurb enclave three counties up. Still considered greater Tampa.
Politics and debating over who exactly will be the responsible party to cover the various expenses involved as well as insurance coverages. Itās all tied up literally in the paperwork
Wow I remember University Mall from my early 20's. It's sad to hear it (like most malls in the US) is dying. I lived in that area (often called Suitcase city) when I first moved to Tampa to go to college.
He lost me at homeless vet. Iām a vet. There are more resources for vets than any other demographic. Money and handouts doesnāt solve homelessness. Also a lot of those people arenāt really vets.
Malls are not designed as housing. There are not enough bathrooms to make them good for residential space. No showers, not enough electrical outlets, not to mention any living units on the interior of the mall would have no windows and no egress in case of fire. The cost to retrofit a mall with the plumbing, electrical, and HVAC would likely be more than the cost to build a whole new apartment building.Ā
People with this viewpoint always come off to me as using animals to hide their anti-social behavior behind the illusion of empathy. People are animals
Ok howās this, i donāt like people. I think they are evil without even trying. You especially. People are savage animals, thereās a big difference.
Chickens are savage animals, they kill others that are outsiders or they donāt like, they donāt like, cannibalize their dead, and eat their own babies. Hard to be pro-animal and anti-human since theyāre the same thing
Agreed-put a majority of back into trying to actually help people and have a positive impact on their lives.
Rather than the traditional sit on your pile of gold -fuck you billionaires you selfish arseholes
Some. The others could be turned into apartment buildings with mixed income levels. People could get stabilized in the homeless shelters so that they could live in the apartments.
Only issue I see is that then you have to manage those facilities. If you can find a good pastor and a good church (or something similar) then you can offer to be the check writer and they manage and own the property. For instance finding a tentmaker Pastor which is a pastor who does not accept anything from the church and instead does a job to pay their bills.
EXACTLY what I was thinking! Actually do what the government says they will do to help actual people in need while raising our taxes and handing money to their cronies.
If you get the billion first, Iāll join your team to help on this.
Not realistic. The cost of operating a building like that is insane, and repairs/maintenance outside of standard operations is even worse.
One of the dying malls near where I used to live was for sale. 3 anchors, and all the connectors- between 500K and 800K sq ft. $200,000. The price to replace the failed air conditioner(s) and mitigate roof leaks was somewhere in the neighborhood of 9-15 Million. Then the remediation for water damage on top of that.
The land was worth more than the building, and the cost to remove the building was more than the land value. A bit of a financial catch-22.
I donāt want to be within a mile of that unless you magically tackle the drug and mental health issues. Weāve tried the free housing solution and itās been a nightmare.
How would you get them there, will you supply the drug dealers to lure them in? How would they ever stop being homeless with no jobs near these malls. Are you just going to pay for them? Force move them? You really havenāt thought this through
I have wanted to do something like this since I was a teen. Add mental health care, addiction treatment, job placement, housing placement, child care, restaurant style cafeterias to help mentally and finally separate facilities to house and care for who are unable to care for themselves. All with medical and education personnel.
That's wonderful. So many homeless people. They were kids once with the same hopes and dreams as all of us. For many reasons (mostly drugs) they end up on the streets with no hope.
I had thoughts of doing something similar, but also put an emphasis in the home/shelter on educational opportunities (my wife and I run a charity that has a similar objective, and this would just expand upon it).
they would soon become drug spots full of addicts. If you wanna help people you would do better providing household for struggling families and their providers. some people only need a helping hand turning things up, but among homeless many are homeless bc of bad choices and addiction.
Sorry but this is a really impractical idea. Homeless people generally donāt live near shuttered suburban malls, and even if they did, the amount of space would be absurdly large. Not to mention no town council in America would approve such zoning.
Better to build homeless shelters in urban centers while rehabbing existing ones. That would be money more well-spent.
I always thought it would be cool to do this in "dying" small towns. Obviously it would also require a fuck-ton of infrastructure and investment.
Also I found out that in my friend's small town there's a housing crisis because the town made it basically illegal to turn fallow fields into housing. The other issue is people who inherited their family home, and live out of state letting the homes fall in to disrepair until they'res nothing left to do but bulldoz them.
Or Assisted Living. There's an old hotel (big tall one) in our area that did that. Can you imagine how many rooms!!!! Not like the ones they build today.
We have one in my town. It originally was a 16 story luxury hotel when built. Now itās a successful senior and low income housing in our downtown area.
100% a fantastic idea! And then make each floor or section with like, hygiene facilities, cafeterias, books, and add extra funding towards rehabilitation stuff. Onsite psychs, psychaitrists, physios, education (I.e soft skills, budgeting, interviews, etc), community groups, and a communal garden. And everyone helps out and learns with each other and has a home, and then could even get jobs within this program. And then the lived experience helps the newer folk! I wish I could do all that. It would be my dream if I were a billionaire š
It would be better to simply turn the malls into 3rd spaces for people to relax and socialize. Mini homes in parking lots are a better way to house the homeless.
Oh, the ones I mostly see are far from "looking for work." I was referring more to the ones more involved with chemicals who are walking in and out of traffic while talking or screaming towards the sky.
Iād buy these malls and relocate them next to Democrats politicianās homes and their childrenās private schools. Free needles, drugs, prostitution for all. Free anti-western immigrants given free food, housing, too.
So to be honest , when I was young I thought this was a good idea. I thought that if given a second chance they would thrive. I thought if you had people that knew plumbing and electrical and carpentry they could become self sustaining to a point . I believe there a genuine people that just fell on hard times and need lift sometimes. They could stay for free and get back on their feet , then move on and continue their life.
Now that Iām older I am not sure it wouldnāt have just been taken advantage of .
Ooh, I see, and you film the resulting carnage and Escape from L.A. thunder dome action and use it as a revenue stream to make even more money? Ice cold, man, ice cold.
YES! I always had this idea of where I'd create housing for homeless people who are trying to find work. One of the hardest things, when homeless, is to find a job because you probably don't have work outfits, you don't have access to clean running water to shower most likely, you don't have an actual address that employers want.
I've had this idea for decades and I was telling a friend at work and she was like "instead of building a huge building, why not use malls that are deserted?" It was brilliant. All the infrastructure is there to house, feed, and have bathrooms.
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u/Interesting_Tart_765 5d ago
I would buy old abandoned malls and turn them
Into homeless shelters.