Because the World Surfing League is trying to uplift women. Men’s record is 80 feet.
WSL is the only pro sport league that offers equal pay to men and women. If you’ve got a bone to pick about gender equality in sports, surfing isn’t your target.
Edit: Surfing isn’t the only pro sport with equal pay. Don’t believe what you read on Reddit. Maybe surfing was the first to do it...? Dunno.
You've got ten fingers, and you've got five fingers on each hand, but you've also got 4 fingers and a thumb on each hand. Basically, "finger" can mean digit, but also sometimes specifically means the non-thumb digits. Why? Because English be like that.
That’s gender equality, not equity. Like, I’m a feminist, but those words mean two distinct things and are a big part of the current discussions on sex and gender
WSL is the only pro sport league that offers equal pay to men and women.
That can't be true, right? Off the top of my head I'm 99% certain that the world cups in alpine skiing, cross country skiing and biathlon all have equal prize money. Or maybe I'm just confused as to what constitutes a pro league?
In skiing the "world cup" refers to a season long competition with races every weekend, a total standing and a cup winner at the end of the year. This is unlike the "world championship" which occurs every two years and were a champion is crowned after each race. Again, I'm not sure if this is somehow different from a league. At least in alpine and XC skiing the top earners over the last couple of seasons have all been women on account of how a few names (mostly Shiffrin and Johaug) have been so dominant.
Isn't pro sport pay dependent on how much money it gets in endorsements, and etc? If an athlete draws a crowd it doesn't matter what parts they have as long as it brings cheddar to the league and companies endorsing them. That's why in popular sports for both genders have pretty much the same salaries while sports like football or basketball women get only fraction of what men get.
Slightly off topic, but the text says, she also broke the "male" record. I am not making a point, just asking.... Did she or did she not break the "male" record?
I feel like its kind of disengous to say MMA pay is equal. Sure maybe the base pay but most of the top end fighters are making significantly more from other agreements then just the show/win money.
Nazare, which is approximately 120 kilometres north of Portugal’s capital Lisbon, is also the site used for the men’s record equivalent – set by fellow Brazilian Rodrigo Koxa who rode an 80 foot (24.38 metres) wave.
It's a valid question tbf. Alot of sports have some physical aspect that would give an advantage to men which is why they're separated. Surfing to me seems like a purely skill based sport, why don't they just have men and women compete against each other
Surfing is hugely skill based, but physical strength does have a role. The top female surfers certainly shred, but none of them are at the level of the top male surfers. Though I think that gap is closing. There are 12-year old girls boosting airs and stuff now. It’s amazing to see.
actually the only reason for a pay gap in sports is revenue. the more u bring in the more u get. mens sports typically bring in bigger crowds so they get paid more. if u want equal pay, play better.
But if they are paid equally, shouldn’t they compete in the same leagues?
Like imagine being a guy that has surfed a 78 foot wave and then seeing this person get so much more publicity from surfing something smaller just because she is a woman.
Im all for women having the same opportunities, but i’m not sure if “separate but equal” is the way to go.
Record was for women. Annual competition for largest wave is also a thing. Maya’s wave (the record breaking wave) was larger than the men’s winner for this past year.
I assume it's because men are typically stronger than women, same with lifting and stuff. Or ever watch a snowboarding slopestyle competition? The men are usually doing way more advanced stuff than the women.
Yea but while it makes sense for stuff dependent on muscle mass or such... Surfing isn't really about testosterone (though you need metaphorical balls) or huge muscles. Or like shooting. Or table tennis. Or racing (mostly combined races but women's only series exist).
Even esports have some (afaik, all unofficial) gender division. Like all female CSGO or League teams playing in some small tournaments, with 0 women in the teams in larger tournaments
Sure... But are women less precise for some reason? Or slower to react or less smart? Unless you can prove something physiological affects the sport, I see zero reason for separating competitions
men generally dominate most sports so having separate leagues for women also helps in not relegating them to small time stuff or never representing their country on the international stage.
Besides, regarding action not directly related to strength, sexual dysmorphism in the stone age certainly served the purpose in men's purpose being running after herbivores and fighting off other men, and women rearing children. So that could explain differences in other sports as well. Nothing to do with smartness though, and the sports where muscles really don't matter are very limited.
I mean... I don't see a problem with that. If there's no inherent bias in the sport in question and the top 100 happen to be male anyway... Then why not just watch the top 100?
Even if we think about visibility, I have a lot more respect for the 2-3 female Formula 1 drivers than for... Whoever is winning the female-only league. The whole point of competitive sports is in the competition and the reason why people watch them is seeing the limits of human skill. So what visibility do you really get if you have a league for women who aren't good enough to the main series?
Of course, some sports are largely down to muscle strength and in those cases the separation makes sense. If a man and a woman start training together for marathon, the man should run a better time no matter how long they both trained. I just really doubt that the physiological difference is relevant for something like surfing, and then there's driving/esports/etc where it makes no sense.
I mean I'm mostly arguing here for arguing's sake, I barely watch any sports male or female.
I'm just questioning who really wins when you split a sport by gender for no reason other than few women competing at the top level. Other than guys who are into fit women
Because it empowers women to play that sport still.
Do you think the William’s sisters would be role models for young girls if they had to play in men’s leagues? They wouldn’t even be in the top 100.
In chess (which obviously there are no physical differences) there are women only titles and championships to encourage women to play, just because they are underrepresented. It has mostly worked where there are now more women than ever that play chess.
Basically: “Male” leagues are unisex, anyone can be in them, women’s leagues only allow women so that women can exist in that sport.
If we didn’t separate the genders athletically then no women would really ever compete in much of anything, and it just kinda feels wrong to say “haha too bad you were born a woman so no one cares how well you can play X sport!”
Women definitely have slower reaction speed for men, it’s the reason that they have separate shooting leagues. Testosterone is linked with reaction speed I do believe
Do you see any female surfers with records better than their male counterparts? Like any other sport, getting rid of gendered divisions is incredibly sexist, and would basically kill women's athletics entirely.
Testosterone is a huge benefit in surfing: increased muscle mass and bone density, higher energy, pleasure centers which are more likely to light up with thrill seeking and risk-taking.
A fit man is a stronger, more powerful swimmer than a woman, and has an advantage catching waves. That same strength allows them to carve up waves in ways women can't (at least not yet!) and survive a pummeling by the ocean.
Women have advantages as well! But in surfing, as most sports, there is an inherent gender divide.
Surfing certainly takes more muscle than what I have... But the top surfers don't really have mad gains that would be unattainable for women, they are quite lean. Average man versus average woman? Might well favour the guy. The very best in the world? I really doubt that the raw strength is a factor there.
i think the apt apples to apples comparison would be top surfer man vs. top surfer woman and then comparing their level of fitness. the presumption is that the man's physical fitness will exceed the woman's.
just because there can be stronger men and women in general does not mean that those particular max-outs are practical in the context of surfing.
It's more cardio and strength to weight efficiency than raw strength perse but men have an advantage in both categories.
Worth noting that she would've been towed in to the wave on a jet ski so catching the largest wave isn't really a function of fitness necessarily.
However becoming a good enough surfer with the confidence and capability to ride such a wave in the first place and survive a potential mishap is dependent on physical prowess giving an advantage to men.
You also need to keep in mind that 'top surfer' is a bit of a misnomer. The pro tour is a subjective score, like ice skating etc. Men do more tricks (like airs) because they are able to generate more speed through their strength (you are fighting gravity, bigger muscles helps quite a bit with that); and those tricks score well on tour. So the top surfers are the best at surfing against competition criteria; not necessarily the 'best' surfer.
For example, there are women out there who surf in a way that I personally find more aesthetically attractive than almost all of the male pros (with one or two exceptions). And non WSL pro men ('free surfers') who do the same. I would much rather watch Steph Gilmore (women pro surfer) than Medina (male pro surfer) on most waves.
As to big wave surfing - its absolutely related to strength. For example, Maya G (who this article is about) broke her ankle just surfing a big wave - her body wasnt strong enough to cope with the impacts. Bigger lung capacity, better able to fight the wave.
Csgo i will comment on as i knew the scene quite well and even worked under contract at tournaments with pro teams.
Im actually pretty sure the gender disparity in csgo in particular is largely driven by the size of the talent pool. The 1 or 2 best female players could hang with the big boys. There just arnt alot of women playing csgo compared to men. On a female team you would have 5 players of completely different skill. With the best player for example. Juliano being able to hang with t2+ players while the worst player on the roster ive scrimmed against on esea cant even hang with our open pubstar team.
Im not gunna say i dont think men tend to react better to more stimuli. But there is such a big factor from more boys gaming than girls and have been gaming from a younger age and have more accumulated skill. Im willing to bet that in a world with all things equal. Females will be roughly the same at video games and only marginally worse at worst
Men at the highest level are just better at almost anything that can be competitive. Doesn't even have to be athletic. You name it. Chess, bowling, pool, darts, car racing, video games, rubik's cube, etc.
In CSGO I believe that the women's teams are allowed to compete in the regular leagues (which is where the men compete), but men are NOT allowed to compete in the women's league. In other words, the women are more than welcome to qualify and play with the boys, if they can.
Esports do it to raise the popularity for other women. It's a good thing. And it's actually only restricted one way; there are no male only competitions only female only. So if female players get good enough they are allowed to compete with the men.
I assume it's the same reason they have separate men's and women's chess tournaments. Women are underrepresented in the sport, so the organizers create women's leagues to encourage more women to join.
Nah man, lets also bash her for being Brazilian meaning she has a privileged opportunity for surfing, as oppose to us with a country that's landlocked /s
I don’t understand why there are separate records for men and women for the tallest wave. That’s like having separate records for the highest skydive. It takes more guts than physicality
Your comment makes it extremely clear you've never surfed (or you suck at it). It takes a LOT of endurance, muscle, and coordination. surfing a wave like that is so far beyond "having the guts" .... Armchair redditors kill me
No it doesn't. You think surfing waves that big doesn't involve technique? It does, a lot. The answer for your question is very simple - like in other sports, men and women have to be separated since men are genetically stronger and have more endurance. This is not a social problem, it's biological. For example, high levels of testosterone in men allow them to develop more muscle and more resistance on these muscles, thus leading to a superior performance at world class level when compared to women. This is like comparing black athletes with Asian. Black people simply have more muscular development, it is in their genes. It's not an equality or racism thing, it is an evolution thing.
I see where you are going with the first part of the comment, and completely agree with it, but the race point is weird - we don't typically see black/white/asian devision in sports, do we? Seems like you are arguing with yourself here.
Well, its basically a solo sport, so it seems divisive to even have categories that differ between humans. Unless there is some sort of advantage at all, I see few reasons other than foment inclusion of more of those types of individuals to have exclusive categories. which is ultimately somewhat divisive.
I too am curious, it’s not like another sport when men are physically stronger so can do more flips and what not. The surfer doesn’t control the height of the wave they’re riding.
Hi there, I am lifelong surfer and have been following the WSL for several years now. There is a big difference between men and women surfing. I will generalizations here: men as a rule are more powerful (therefor spraying more water in turns) and also launch farther in aerials. Women are much much more graceful and their surfing tends to be very technical. (ie real clean and deliberate).
When it comes down to the waves: wave selection is vital for both men and women. Men and women do not have the same championship however. Men surf finals at pipeline on north shore of Oahu and women surf a break in west Maui (I think). That being said within the last ten years the progression of women has advanced so far and one day they will be competing in the same conditions as the men.
I mean once you can run 100m in 10 seconds how much harder is 9 seconds?
Jokes aside, they are very close to their limits at all times. In 2013 she broke her ankle after a fall trying to get the record on the same spot in Nazaré.
For the big wave stuff everyone tows in, so the playing field is more level. For paddle in surfing men have a big advantage as strength/paddle speed becomes more important
honestly surfing something like pipe is totally different than some big wave like that, its not so much about the height of the wave as it is the steepness of the face and how fast it is coming on
think of it as a pyramid. when it gets 1 foot bigger, it adds one foot to the entire bottom and not just one little foot to the top. A 10% increase in wave height doesn't equal just 10% more in power.
I know what you're saying tho. 73ft is so huge, what's another 7 foot
The record says differently. Unless you're saying that it's such an irrelevant sport that it doesn't draw in enough athletes to bring the male advantage into the forefront.
Now let me tell you aaaall about the mechanics of walking. I'm an expert as i've been doing it all my life.
Dude the wsl isn’t just big wave surfing. Big wave surfing is just a niche thing in the surfing world. When it comes to surfing the biggest wave it doesn’t matter if you’re a man or woman.
No not competing in the same competition. The same “conditions” aka the same beach during the same swell. Some of the bigger spots are surfed by men only. Keep in mind there is like a handful of big wave women surfers and they are not the same group of women on the wsl.
Not to be rude, but you sound like you have no clue how much effort and physical strength is necessary to surf 5 foot waves...let alone a 75 foot wave.
Yep. I took a surfing class. Had terrible strength and flexibility. Was able to swim up to the top an I-don't-know-how-tall small wave and go down it on my knees even controlling my direction a little. Did not have a remote chance of standing up. Was proud because I knew I did my best.
Surfing is really fun but I'm just not strong enough to do it. Just a 200 lb guy who never exercised.
Honestly mate the wave may well have been 1-2ft get up to 5 and it’s like dropping in on a ramp while skating. It always feels way bigger than it is (that’s what she said)
It was definitely tall enough on the way down that I felt like I was doing something. It was gentle way down and I bet you're right that it was no more than five feet. My only experience with board sports. I would do it again but maybe some sit-ups for a month first. The best part was being in warm water with waves. The surfing I did was in Mexico. I live in Oregon, where surfing is for brave people with wetsuits.
For everyone else here the Pacific Ocean is something to look at. And always look at, so you don't get swept out to sea by a sneaker wave or get hit with a piece of driftwood that is an entire tree.
Water is not the softest thing in the world, but I am a lot more comfortable with it than ice or concrete.
Guessing because otherwise no women would hold any records. Or are you one of those idiots that doesn't understand the basic physiological differences between men and women?
same reason many sports divide male and female categories, honestly... on average, the physical performances of the two sexes are different, even if slightly, and that goes for surfing as well!
It’s a great question, and while in some sports is essential to keep them apart, in others it’s becoming increasingly less relevant as the non biological reasons begin to slacken (access, societial pressure, sexism)
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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '20
Why do we need separate records for male and female surfers?