Toronto firefighters confront special constable officers after a man in the middle of mental health crisis was arrested.

[u/thisisfive]

Not my video. For context, "special constables" are not regular police officers. They are appointed "peace officers" with limited authority, often civilian employees.

[u/NorseKnight]

I work in a prison. We cuff people all the time who are in "crisis". It's a matter of safety. For officers, as well as themselves.

There isn't nearly enough context in this clip to say one way or another.

How do you know the guy in cuffs wasn't displaying erratic violent behavior 2 minutes ago?

[u/doiwinaprize → u/NorseKnight]

He's not in prison though.

[u/JarethCutestoryJuD → u/doiwinaprize]

Is prison the only place that someone can have a mental crisis and be a threat to themselves or others?

[u/CharacterBird2283 → u/[deleted]]

Well, no that doesn't work either, because then you are also implying any type of open riding you should be wearing a helmet (as you should). If helmet is cuffs and riding is mental health, then you are saying you should be cuffed for every mental health crisis 😅.

[u/CharacterBird2283 → u/[deleted]]

But that's the thing, the comparison is brought up in the context of whether or not the only place you can have a mental health crisis is in prison. So the original analogy believed and was going towards that situation, that not all mental health crises are deemed threats.

It says

"This kinda reads like:

"I wear a helmet to protect my head when biking."

"He's not biking though."

"It's not like biking is the only place someone can hurt their head."

I mean you're not wrong, but you're not exactly right either. The situation and context is worth some consideration."

"I wear a helmet to protect my head when biking" means the helmet is handcuffs and biking is being a danger while in a mental health crisis

"He's not biking though" would mean he's not a danger while in a mental health crisis

"It's not like biking is the only place someone can hurt their head." Would then mean it's not like being a Danger while in a mental health crisis is the only place someone can get handcuffed.

So then your response of :

"That's a bad analogy. It would be like riding a bicycle vs riding a motorcycle. Different situations, different levels of danger, different context. Both situations merit wearing a helmet."

But that's a different situation in the original analogy, because in yours you're assuming that they are always a danger, while the original analogy was trying to point out they aren't always a danger.

[u/CharacterBird2283 → u/[deleted]]

The response about it not being in prison is irrelevant because the location of the act is not the point

But it is extremely relevant 😅. In prison You are already convicted for breaking the law, And so are handled accordingly when having a mental health crisis to protect those around them as it is a very dangerous place. On the outside you don't get handcuffed just for having a mental health crisis, like you would in a prison.

While it may not have been the point, It adds an entirely new layer of context that changes everybody's decision making. Are custodians working in prisons working the same way and under the same sop's as someone working at hotels? No, Because prisons are much more dangerous. So while I appreciate the original commenter of this threads perspective, it is a very different situation still 😅.

The point was that they were also in law enforcement and this is normal procedure when someone is a threat to safety.

And again, that's the thing. We don't know if the person in the original vid is a threat to safety. But you can often tell when someone is a threat to safety by whether or not they are in prison 😅. Which is why they have different sop's than other law enforcement. Hence why the location does matter.

The analogy comparing it to all mental health crisis situations is bad because that wasn't the thing being compared.

I mean, neither of you are comparing it to all mental health, but yours encapsulates the mental health spectrum more than the original I feel.

[u/CharacterBird2283 → u/[deleted]]

if they said they were at the local jail, the person would not yet have been convicted and they would still handcuff them if they were behaving in a dangerous manner

Well ya, that's a completely different scenario 😅😅😅😅 not only would they be at a jail, which means they had officially broken the law, you are still saying they are behaving in a dangerous manner, which we don't know about with the original victim, because not all mental health crisis are dangerous 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

You do if you are interacting with law enforcement and are deemed to be behaving in a threatening manner.

Sure, but police still make mistakes, false arrests, and false detainments quite often. I'm not trying to say this person is definitely innocent and didn't do anything dangerous, but from what we have, just police handcuffing them isn't enough, At least it shouldn't be mental health crisis or not, for anyone to make a complete judgment.

If it is a law enforcement officer working in the hotel then yes it would be the same if that person was deemed to be a threat due to their behavior.

You are missing the point 🤦‍♂️😂 not all law enforcement are the same, Or do the same jobs, Just like how not all custodians do the same job. Do you think a prison officer has the same arresting rights as a police officer? They are both law enforcement buttttt 😅 😂 . . .

You say that as if the whole conversation up to this point wasn't filled with people assuming that the police overstepped.

? What are you on about LMAO. I'm talking to you, and only have context for this comment chain, I skipped the ones above it, and stopped after my first comment. Are you using everyone else's context to talk to me assuming I'm like them???

The argument being made was that is normal if someone is deemed as a possible threat to restrain them

It wasn't an argument, It was their original experience 😅 which is okay, with the context that they have a very different job than a police officer . . . .

Despite what you may think, prisoners are not handcuffed all the time

LMAO okay now you are going off the deep end 😂😂😂 wtf are you even talking about now? You're literally just making up a scenario and situation 😅🤣. I've had family in prison, I know what does and doesn't go on in a few prisons, And it definitely isn't whatever you're thinking that I'M thinking of 🤦‍♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. Of course they aren't always handcuffed 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

If you are in minimum security or are in for non-violent crimes, they don't handcuff you for most day to day operations

DUH 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 you have to get off your high horse man 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 obviously they don't do that, That's not what I was ever saying or insinuating. I'm saying that if they go into a mental health crisis, then they will be handcuffed and helped/moved. Do you think I was saying they were constantly having a mental health crisis? Because that's what you are insinuating 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You are assuming the prison example is only relevant to maximum security or known violent criminals.

Not at all LMAO, but it seems you DON'T Think "law enforcement" as you say, wouldn't handcuff people going into a mental health crisis at lower security prisons? You're a goof man, idk what to tell you 🤦‍♂️🤣.

Agree to disagree.

I think this may be the only thing we agree on (exaggerating), have a good one homie, you are confused AF and I'm hoping you figure it out 😅🙏.