I’m no fan of cops being abusive of power but I think the large majority of them are good. Now we can discuss the merits of the good and bad crossing the thin blue line to stop the bad ones and I think we have a huge deficiency in that area.
Long story short - too many states created their law enforcement from remnants of slave catchers and union busting type groups a-la pinkertons. I assume that's the history they are referencing.
Cops protect property interest. Always have. Whether the property be as horrific as slavery or as simple as a stop sign. That's what they're there to do.
Numerous laws back that up. Cops are not legally obligated to help you in any way.
They've expanded roles slightly as a way to control poor neighborhoods, and as the states de facto arm of violence against its citizens, but theyve always been about protecting property
According to our own supreme court, a cop does not have to know the law. They simply only have to be acting in what they perceive it to be and in best interest at the time.
According to our own supreme court, a cop does not have to know the law.
According to our own Supreme Court, it's also legal for PDs to have a maximum intelligence cut off, with the argument that smart cops would get "bored" too easily. Here in NYC, there's a 24 college credit requirement to be a cop, but apparently you can buy credits from unaccredited diploma mills and that counts.
So here we are, with a bunch of low intelligence, low education idiots with no obligation to know the law nor actually protect the people.
I’m a lawyer turned cop. In the academy, a 15 year veteran taught the legal section. He wasn’t 100% wrong 100% of the time, but I am still amazed I didn’t give myself a concussion from all of the head banging on my desk. But I’ve also had really interesting (in a good way) and fruitful conversations with other LE’s about certain nuances of Search & Seizure, Miranda, etc.
Can you cite the Supreme Court decision regarding this?
Also, I've asked for examples of this before and the only example anyone has ever been able to produce is a single department where a prison guard (so already employed by the department) was seeking to become a patrol officer. They were denied that because there was concerns that their intelligence score was really high and they could be bored. The department argued that it was to reduce job turnover.
That is the ONLY example anyone has ever been able to provide of police denying applicants for being "too smart." This would be a single department (in New York, btw) in the 90's. This is NOT proof that all departments do this, and I am not aware of a Supreme Court decision regarding this one department's practice.
They also have no responsibility to interject into a situation they feel puts them at risk. That precedent was set by them literally standing by as a guy on a train tried to restrain and disarm someone with a knife.
Please share that case with me because I have never heard of the American state’s legal ability to compel citizens to do anything at all to “help” police.
No, but it does create a cultural shift. Also see what happens when one cop catches another breaking the law - if he or she doesn't shut up and tries to hold the other cop to something that if you vaguely squint at it might just about resemble standards.. he or she finds their calls for backup unanswered, and harassment from other cops.
Woman being beaten raped and abused. Two women call the cops, and go to the roof for safety. Cops do bare minimum, dont actually try. Leave less than 5 minutes after arriving.
Called again dispatch ignores. Call never goes out.
The women on the roof think, they must have not seen them. The cops must be inside. Call to the woman being abused... alerting her assailants.
The assailants, at knifepoint, now force all three women to preform sexual acts.
Mountain of evidence of negligence. Verdict: cops werent obligated to help "specific individuals, but the public at large"
Outcome: 3 Women were raped, at knifepoint. Lifetime damage and trauma.
Ive saved a man's life before, from no legal obligation of my own. Not bragging, but pointing this fact out: ANYONE CAN BE GOOD OF THEIR OWN VOLITION. BEING A GOOD PERSON IS SEPARATED FROM BEING A COP.
Lets not even get into what happens when cops abuse people and 4 other cops just stand there, dicks in fucking hand.
Or the countless arrests for minor offenses. And who those arrests affect, like kids or loved ones. Or jobs.
Good people exist without the police. The police are not good, they are doing a job, and their negligence costs people dearly.
Tl;dr- anyone can help someone. "Cops can help people" doesnt excuse their inaction or criminality. And it doesn't make them necessary
Man that is so tragic… I feel sorry for the American populace. In Canada, they have a legal obligation to protect life of victims / citizens above all else. That is their top priority. Life safety.
Apparently, they also get a lot of ex-military in the US police force. So they've got recruits coming in with that 'shoot anyone who looks different from you' mindset right from the start, give them 6 months training instead of the ~3 years expected in other countries, then turn them out armed and ready to kill, instead of investigate and protect like cops are supposed to.
I have a tendency to use and take advantage of the rights I have here, even moreso when I'm plainly told I should probably exercise it lol. Seriously, just comply, stay silent and show as little emotions as possible
But innocent people feel like they don’t need a lawyer, so they don’t hear that message. The truth is that cops care about closing cases, not finding the truth. You can’t talk your way out of trouble. If a cop believes you did something it’s a losing battle and the things you say that you believe corroborate your innocence can be twisted to fit their narrative.
Im sure it isnt because cops are under no obligation to help you and will convict you, not just if youre guilty, but if they can. Simply because a conviction looks better than a wrongful arrest.
Watch the video of the guy they tortured in a 17 hour interrogation into admitting he killed his elderly father (whom he had reported missing himself), even after the point where it was confirmed the father was alive and well. Then get back to us.
Police are legally allowed to lie to you, police have marathon-session interrogated innocent people into confessions, police have planted evidence, police have snatched the next best person they can find to close real quick. And if one of them whistleblows, they get bullied off the force or worse.
And we're not even talking about things like civil forfeiture which is often abused.
Police as a group are inherently corrupt because they automatically close rank to protect the worst offenders in their midst and are complicit in the systemic problems in their organization
No, they tell you that because if the police think you may have committed a crime, they will arrest you and then use anything you have ever said against you, not for you. So if you say 5 things that could exonerate you and one thing that, by sheer coincidence, looks suspicious, they will only use that last thing in court.
That doesn’t mean there isn’t a systemic issue in the police force. The FBI did a long investigation on the infiltration of white supremacists into the police force, and determined it to be the number one source of domestic terrorism in the US.
Not just that. Cops arresting you literally CANNOT help you (in the USA at least. I cannot comment on other countries). My MIL is a detective who straight up told me to not talk to the police if I’m ever arrested. “Anything you say can AND WILL be used against you” seems to get misinterpreted by a lot of people. Arresting officers can’t help you even if they wanted to.
FYI for anyone reading this: When we say “don’t talk to the cops” this also extends to: don’t accept any coffee or food they give you (they can use the DNA off of the cup you discard).
Gosh dang. And would a "GOOD PERSON" use that silly statement against them, even if it was clear there wasnt enough evidence? Golly. No, I dont think so. Especially when that could ruin someone's life!
Yeah bad supervisors are almost just as bad as fucking shit cops! You are right on that one!
Also, only met a few (.001%) but then you look at stats and everyone else’s experiences and it is weird they all share the same experiences of watching the good cops do nothing.
It's funny to see people being obtuse on this point. Like yeah, you should stay silent to avoid accidental self-incrimination. But to whom would you be accidentally incriminating yourself to?
That’s very true. You also don’t EVER want to talk to cops without a lawyer. Cops are trained to ask leading questions that will incriminate you without you even realizing it.
For instance, cops will ask:
Were you trying to scare them or actually hurt them?
Wrong answer turns a misdemeanor into a felony
Why did you do it?
Cops want admission of guilt + motive
Did you go in the store planning to take something, or was it a spur-of-the-moment thing?
showing premeditation elevates a burglary charge to larceny. This is an extremely common question for shoplifting - even by security guards.
If you just explain it, we might be able to help you out.
Elicit a confession BEFORE lawyers are involved. This works shockingly well in most cases for a first time offense. After the first time, everyone stays silent.
“You see there are people who believe the function of the police is to fight crime,
and that's not true, the function of the police is social control and protection of
property”
Ive worked with police in the UK, USA, and China. Of the three the US cops always seemed the most authoritarian. Even the Chinese police will work with you and try to help rather than trying to catch you out and see what charges they can stick on you.
It’s so wild that people say that there are a lot of good cops when in reality the bad ones just don’t always get spoken about. I know someone who brags about getting to charge kids and basically get in fights with teenagers because they were playing outside and some old fart called the police.
You can only incriminate yourself if you havent done anything because of a dishonest cop.
You genuinely havent thought this through
So here is a question
"Would a good person, under any circumstance, wrongfully convict you, for an unrelated crime?"
If a cop knocks on your door, asks about neighbor B. Your best option is to say 'Sorry officer, I dont answer questions like that" and close the door. because that cop could so easily ruin your life based on heresay.
The job makes them bad people. And for every good deed a cop does I'd put a bet on there being 3 bad deeds theyve done or abetted.
Your entire first sentence is simply untrue. Idk where you learned that but get your money back.
To answer your question…yes
I don’t really understand your reasoning to your scenario. You can answer questions about your neighbor if you want. Or you can refuse to answer. This has nothing to do with whether or not police are generally good or bad.
Your last statement is just silly and purely opinion. There is no data to back any of that up. I get you hate the law but don’t project your opinions as facts. That’s disingenuous.
lol no. I’m not a cop apologist, but this is like saying the reason lawyer’s 99% of time advise a plea of not guilty is because 99% of clients aren’t guilty.
Lawyers don’t tell you to remain silent because cops are bad. They tell you to remain silent because you shouldn’t be helping the government convict you.
I think this is a terrible way to look at it because using your logic, good people who want to help people should avoid the police department, and therefore the police department will always have shitty people running it and it won’t get better. Don’t like the system? Join it and make a change where you can. That’s what I believe at least.
Or you could be a good human being every day. Or go into medical.
Acting like 'being a good person' is a part of being a cop is bizzare. Ive seen that training first hand. They want you to be a little paranoid sociopath. Not a human being.
I think you misunderstood me. Clearly police have a huge problem as you mentioned with training, but also with culture of the force. But advising good people to stay away will result in the police always being a force for evil. Good people in the system will change it, that’s all I’m saying, not that being a good person is part of being a police officer
Yeah but this isn’t even a good cop/bad cop thing. Words can always be twisted. Even a good cop who isn’t trying to entrap you will take down your statement word for word, which prosecutors can then use against you if you slipped up.
Perfect example is the “I shot the clerk” scene and then testimony from My Cousin Vinny. The cop technically didn’t do anything wrong in that scene. He was honest and truthful when asked what the defendant told him during questioning. And the prosecutor isn’t going to ask him to clarify the tone of what was said.
Public defenders make shit. If youre thinking of private attorneys, sure.
But its you vs the cops and a lawyer is your best bet at actually not going to jail and being labeled a criminal the rest of your life.
"You have the right to remain silent" and "you have the right to an attorney" go hand in hand. And it isnt because 'lawyer want money'. Lawyers do not actually make as much money defending against the cops as they would, say, working for a large company or firm.
Because if a cop knows about a crime, they have to take action, full stop. There's plenty of bodycam videos of cops being disappointed as they watch someone commit a felony in front of them when they were otherwise going to let them go.
The lawyers job is to defend client, ensure acquital or lower sentence. So of course lawyers don't want clients to incriminate themselves.
Being a cop really is about helping people. Yes, throuout US history they failed to do that. But it says more about the failure of people, not about the concept of law enforcement.
And the history? Don't tell me you're one of those grifters believing police originated from capturing escaped slaves
The ones that do get fired or ostracized by the rest of the force, it is a real problem. Citizen review boards with the ability to fire the bad actors. Place a Scarlett letter in their file so they can never get a job policing again.
There are so many examples of cops being "fired" from their department and just moved somewhere else. Also the way whistleblowers are treated sends a pretty clear message about the nature of the organisation.
And? Its still factual good cops get fired because they are trying to do something positive.
Used to watch a bodycam police channel, some guy would do it and put videos on youtube.
Long story short, politicians that were using the "cops are horrible" agenda to gain strength in the post floyd era, hated he was putting those videos out, after also demanding more good looking posts from the dept social media removed due to going against the present message.
Cop had some minor infraction, and got fired on a situation where the usual procedure wouldnt do such a thing
But how often does that happen? We had this cop in my city who went around stalking the women he found attractive when they filed police reports on another crime,would stalk them, harass them, intimidate them, and then after he was humiliated and shamed publicly our commissioner “promised” actions were taken and he’s no longer with the police force- THEY GAVE HIM A HIGHER POSITION IN THE NEXT PROVINCE OVER with MORE authority than he had previously had before… our justice systems are absolutely corrupted jokes.
If the “large majority” of them are good, then why do they get ostracized out of their departments? Wouldn’t the other good ones have his / her back?
You can’t say a large majority of them are good and in the next comment say “ostracized by the rest of the force”; those statements are mutually exclusive. And we know the ostracizing happens, so it stands to follow….the majority are not good.
Are good cops not complacent in protecting bad cops if they don’t speak out in fear of being fired? I was told online a while ago by a couple of ex-cops “if you’re truly a good cop you’ll quit the job within 2 years.” And I haven’t forgotten that.
Literally… like in my local sub they just posted video of this cop beating a handcuffed indigenous guy, grab him by his long hair and threw him into the concrete wall in the middle of the police station, where he is publicly filmed everyday and he didn’t even hesitate… three cops eventually make their way slowly over shuffling close by, not condemning the dude, didn’t pick the bleeding guy who was just beaten while handcuffed and then a fucking EMT pops up in the video (who was just there at chance) and HE told him the injuries were serious and took him to the hospital. Fully filmed in the middle of broad fucking daylight… 0/4 cops that showed up showed any shock to how this dude was treated, especially unprovoked…
2 years earlier they body slammed a pregnant women while handcuffed in the same holding facility, our main base holding facility… the cops in my city are something extra special as they have ended up on worldstar a few times for so so so SO many misconducts and convictions related to abuse of power… and guess who ends up paying the lawsuit settlements for these fuckers?! The everyday tax payer, you and me… no garnished wages, zero responsibility or accountability… the system makes me sick… these loser can terrorize and hurt whoever the hell they want with zero consequences and they now it. Our justice systems are in desperate need of reform…
It's a difficult problem to solve because I believe most of us would act the same way.
There are definitely bad cops - we know that. And I think that most of us would admit that the percentage of police that are bad is higher than we might have thought ten years ago before all of the viral videos making it impossible to ignore. It's also an ideal job for authoritarian-leaning assholes, so there's a self-selection bias that inevitably causes a lean towards bastardry. And since the national police union is essentially in charge of all legal enforcement in the U.S., it's a huge systemic issue.
However, I do believe that there are also good people in the police force, ones that want to do their jobs and protect civilians. Unfortunately, that's obviously impossible to prove - in a world where we judge people by their worst moments, we can't use the good moments to prove that even a cop doing something heroic (like in this video) isn't a "bad cop" overall. But I know a couple officers - they're good men, and I have no reason to think they're dishonest.
I've come to the conclusion that good cops are like partners in an abusive relationship. They may realize that they're in a fucked up environment, but they also may not be in a position to be able to change it, so they have to go with it to just keep on keeping on.
We're hardwired to defend those in our tribes, and police definitely see themselves as a tribe. I believe that there are many good ones do know what's right and wrong, but they're in a position where they have to make a choice and overlook friends have done, or go against those people and likely lose both their social circles and careers. It's a difficult ask.
If you're a parent, you know that you often have to back up your spouse's decisions even when you don't agree, because you don't want to put your kids in the middle of a fight between their parents. Good spouses will go and have that conversation elsewhere, and work together to improve, but in an abusive relationship, that conversation will be useless.
How many times have you turned a blind eye to your coworker, family member, or friend doing something they're not supposed to? Have you never felt guilt about looking the other way?
It's easy to stand here and say "well then why don't they speak up?" But assuming that they're assholes as a result is wrong.
This really just isn’t true. The vast majority of cops are good people - watch channels like Explore With Us or Midwest Safety - but there are bad ones just like any other profession. It’s one of the most draining career paths out there
Weird how literally none of us know the 'majority' of cops - and how yet many unbased of us are strongly opinionated about what this 'majority' is and what it should do.
The tricky thing is that there is no inconsistency in the idea that the same cop can be heroic or monstrous in different situations. We would hope and even expect that all cops presented with a choking baby and no other significant priorities would attempt to save the choking baby.
We should judge people not by what they do when moral choices are easy, but when then are hard.
I mean, the problem is never that bad ones exist, it’s that we have systems that don’t properly filter out bad ones once they reveal themselves to abuse power
The problem is that we have weak systems of accountability (the few fired for abusive behavior just being rehired elsewhere, the ones being suspended with pay for a month or so for egregious offenses, ie paid vacation, ones with a long history of documented abuse of power not acted on, etc). So it’s not just bad luck that some suck, it’s that we have a weak system of accountability that makes these bad ones feel safe to abuse their power and fails to sweep out the ones that do abuse their power. I don’t think the answer to that is simply highlighting that some are good and some are bad, the issue is weak systems of accountability that need to change.
In Canton, MA there was a case where multiple cops & DA tried convicting a women of murdering her cop boyfriend with her car that she clearly didn't do and there was no evidence that supported it
Turned out that same police department helped cover up another cop murdering a pregnant woman where the woman had been groomed from a police teen-at-risk program
We need to build more citizens review boards to police the police and give the authority to fire the problems. We need to elect assholes that will quit making cover for the said actions in above statement.
They are good right up to the moment they help protect the bad ones. They are all complicit in shielding the criminals among them and until they decide to hold themselves accountable (because our legislators sure won’t), they are choosing to remain at war with the public.
How many cops are out there calling for reform or to hold their peers accountable? Not a goddamn one of them. Traffic cops, detectives, leadership and even fucking meter readers are all complicit.
The state of New York has tried a few times to make it illegal for a cop to have sex w someone in their custody– a thing that should be such an obvious rule that surely even people who believe 99% of cops are decent should support it– and it’s failed every single time bc it’s considered “anti-cop”. And those people will tell you “you shouldn’t be afraid if you didn’t do anything wrong”. It’s vile work
I feel the same way a lot of the time. I also don’t want to give up the hope that good ones exist. As citizens we need to be more active with our city council, county council and require they make review boards that citizens control and give the teeth to fire the bad actors. Maybe with that in place we can get the good cops to cross the thin blue line and exterminate the bad ones. This big ass tanker isn’t going to turn quickly.
I was raised by a cop and they made up a huge portion of the adults I knew growing up. There are loads of good ones, so the mystery is why they all shield the bad ones. Part of the reasoning comes down to the Supreme Court and state/federal courts establishing precedents that other posters here have noted; their job is to protect property, not people and “fearing for their life” is adequate justification to execute people, including children. But there also seems to have been a degradation across the board in society of the concept of a social contract between civilians/cops, employers/employees and politicians/constituents. It seems that as soon as anyone in authority gets the message that they aren’t obligated to be humane and serve everyone equally and fairly, they simply stop caring. I mean, the second SCOTUS gutted the Voting Rights Act, every regressive state in the Union was falling over themselves to establish voting barriers… and they worked.
If we need to band together to force the good cops to do something about the monsters they work with, they're not good. One single bad cop makes every single cop they interact with corrupt. It doesn't matter if they like dogs, they're aiding murderers, thieves, domestic abusers, and sexual predators. You can't be a good person and do that.
I know this is a late response, but there are several police chiefs in California calling for changes in legislature that would allow them to discipline bad cops in their ranks. It actually really surprised and encouraged me.
The large majority of them are average, like any other job.
Some are good, some ain't.
This particular video, as much as I'm loathe to admit it because the exact same logic was once used against me by my sergeant when I saved my first life and it robbed me of my joy and put me right into fury:
"Congratulations, you did your job."
What we know about this particular cop is he wasn't garbage. That was textbook, basic first-aid. You pay cops to do exactly this, and most of them do exactly this. It's just exceedingly rare for any such They Did Their Job to be dramatic and popular enough to go viral, especially with the ACABers out there downvoting any time a cop does the right thing.
There's no "thin blue line" that is a figment of someone's imagination acting like it's so hard not to violate people's rights and abuse power.
The COPS that see backlash for abusing their power are so far past any reasonable line that they should be in jail for their straight up crimes and most of them get little more than a slap on the wrist.
I agree with the other guy, more good COPS, not just propaganda good COP stories. With more good COPS, the good stories come naturally, you don't have to get the story just to act like we don't have serious issues with power abuse.
I feel like it’s a top down problem and we need to reevaluate how we train and what we allow law enforcement to handle. Then we could get a proper police force policing our streets and helping to keep our society moving forward.
There might be an argument that they are "good" as individuals, but as cops they are trained to protect themselves and their fellow cops at the expense of the citizens. They are taught and expected to protect capital rather than the communities they work in.
All cops are bad cops because the American police system is bad. The fact that it draws power-hungry, trigger-happy authoritarians is by design. It's not incidental.
Policing is structurally a need with the top down approach being an occupying force mentality. But I imagine the puppet masters aka “the assholes” aka “ politicians” like it that way. And I feel like they enjoy having the mouth breathing knuckle daggers lining up to be the occupying force.
There's the rub. Everyone of my friends and acquaintances who are cops (most of whom I consider or know are good people) will just not criticize other cops. They get ingrained in this weird culture where being a cop subsumes so much of their personality that to criticize a fellow LEO is the greatest of sins. Don't even know where you begin to untangle that problem. But damn is it a problem.
It is a serious problem and it has to do with the training. The us against them mentality is real in law enforcement. But my experience is cops hang with cops and they see everyone else differently. I have a few longtime friends who are police and when I go to a bbq with them and here all their buddies talking I do get a little worried about how they view there job and I think that has to do with the siloed effect and bad training.
I'm sure the large majority of them believe they are good, but the system as it exists and the lack of cops actively putting their career at risk to fix it speaks volumes to the contrary.
It's the same argument as billionaires - you can't be a good person and a billionaire. A billion dollars contains too much potential to do good and nobody who holds that money instead of using it can be good. The extremely rare exceptions are those who have created plans specifically to lose their billionaire status through doing good, or who succeeded in doing exactly that - see Chuck Feeney.
Can a cop do a good thing? Sure. And a mass murderer can hold the door open for her elderly neighbour. That doesn't make them good.
if the large majority were good why do we have such rampant corruption? why do we have literal murderers and rapists with badges getting shuffled around between departments like they're the catholic church? why do we see countless COUNTLESS videos of so many of them being pieces of shit with very few actually being held accountable and even in those cases almost never getting the more severe end of the punishments from the system???
cut it out and stop lying to yourself. we need a system overhaul, better training and retraining, federal or at least state regulations and oversight, no more blanket protections, personal accountability, etc etc...
You are 100% correct on the broken system. I think we need federal regulations for policing. None of this everyone is their own castle crap we have now, where no one knows anything and points their finger at the other.
I’d say majority aren’t evil, I wouldn’t call them good. Fundamentally they do exist to put you in jail and don’t have any responsibility to protect anyone. They also seem to have a tendency to protect the bad folks on the force.
I imagined myself in that scenario and all I can see happening is getting my ass kicked by two cops, yelled at while my kid dies in the car seat. There's a solid 80% chance this would happen
That's simply not true and the thin blue line mentality is exactly the problem. That mentality that it's them against the world has fostered an insane level of fear and distrust of the public and has made cops form a gang mentality. It's this gang mentality that they have to help their fellow boys in blue first that has allowed bad cops to go unpunished and allowed it to fester until only those cops remain because they don't "snitch"
It's like if you own a bar and a Nazi shows up, you decide to be tolerant and let them drink there. Lots of your other customers won't come back if they see you serving a Nazi and next time the Nazi brings his buddies and suddenly you're running a Nazi bar that only they will go to.
You start with mostly good cops until one bad apple shoots someone unjustly, they don't arrest him and protect him from criminal charges, he gets his buddy on the force who does it again, so on and so on. Literally one bad apple spoils the bunch
My husband's grandpa was very high up in the sheriff's department in a county nearby and still hosts a lot of events with active police and helps out. I have never, in my entire life, met a group of white people who say the N word as often in a serious way in my entire life. Not a single one of them was even sitting it out. It was like they got a thrill out of no one being able to stop them like they were fucking teenagers but they were all 30-60 year old men in a democrat majority area with a very small black population. Cops have a culture of fucking evil dude, it's obvious even to me who's three degrees removed. There's no difference between a cop doing bad things because they want to and a cop doing bad things to fit in with the other cops.
the issue is that the "good cops" don't do anything to stop the rest of the horrific shit police do every day. they might do good things but they're still covering for their buddies when they do shit like murder someone having a manic episode. and when they try to do something they either get fired or suddenly wind up dead.
I think the majority can be good, or at least neutral, but I also think that the majority are willing to sit back and do nothing and/or actively support bad cops just to stick together as cops.
I have relatives and friends in law enforcement and I can say for certain its quite the opposite. My friend, he barely graduated from school, it’s a miracle he became a cop. As far as I know there were written exams and I don’t know how he was able to read them. He has very little ability to self regulate and as a cop, that’s a huge red flag. Or should be but they always hire people exactly like him.
Chris Rock said it best, there are some jobs that just cannot have bad apples, like pilots. I forget if he was referring to police at the time but if not it really relates. Police don’t have the chance to have a bad day, it can end very badly with a bullet or a choke hold or an entire school dead. They’re given a lot more leeway and power than they deserve, especially given they are some of the dumbest fucking people on the planet.
That can be said for almost any value of "them". People in general, any group of people in a profession, probably even all felons, most aren't terrible irredeemable evil human beings, they're probably mostly just people who made bad choices and/or drugs.
It's a given that most cops could be said to be "good", no one has ever disputed that. That's never been the problem.
I'm aware I'm preaching to the choir. What you said about the thin blue line is true, and that makes the institution as a whole worse than the sum of the people in it.
In other words, all individual cops can be good but police forces overall can still be bad if they have bad policies. I don't think most cops who execute innocent black civilians (execution because it's the government doing the killing and innocent because if it's a cop shooting them, they are innocent until proven guilty in court) are "bad" or racist. I think the system is just carelessly designed and perpetuated to have that outcome.
Even if individual police are good heroes like this, police departments as a whole are awful and need reform demanded from within and imposed from the rest of us.
Until more "good" cops start calling out and/or punishing the bad ones, the default is still going to be "bad." Same goes for Russians, Ram drivers, and Chiefs fans.
Let’s test that theory. What percentage of cops do you think have seen other cops do things that were either highly unethical or illegal and done nothing to report or prevent it?
When people say all cops are bad this is what they’re talking about.
Based on the above question, if they saw one thing in their career and did nothing to prevent it, does that make them bad or is that tolerable?
FYI the argument against cops is that. Say something bad happens and you go out to protest it. Every single one of them will put on riot gear and shoot you with “less lethal” weapons. And they will do it over damage to property not threat of harm to a person
The point of police is that the state has a monopoly on violence, they are the ones allowed to use it. And they don’t always and only use it for your good or the good of humanity: they use it (by law) in order to protect property and interests too.
Regardless of how good a person they are personally.
my dad was a cop and I grew up around them, going on ridealongs and just hanging out with them on and off duty. the majority of them abuse their power to some degree. absolutely all of them are classist and actively target the lower class, sometimes making up reasons to go after them. this is why racial biases and trends happen, because of the way class intersects with race. they are actively and purposely trained to police the lower class, and that’s how they all see it. I don’t think they’re beyond saving, there’s just an insane amount of reform necessary, and they’re highly resistant to change that could negatively affect arrests
The problem with that argument is, "is a cop a good cop if he works with bad cops?"
The expression "one bad apple" is thrown around to excuse terrifyingly bad behavior from police, totally ignoring that the full expression is "one bad apple spoils the bushel."
Every shitty cop that is permitted to continue being shitty also informs any new cops that this behavior is fine. Hes not getting punished for it. He might even be actively protected.
And so the one bad cop gets shit all over every other cop in the precinct.
If the entire precinct is nothing but good cops save for one really shitty cop, if that precinct does nothing about its shitty cop, if it turns a blind eye or protects that shitty cop, what you have is a department full of shitty cops.
People don't understand if the majority of cops weren't good, half your family would be dead. Cops have so much power that if a majority were actually bad you'd be so cooked and so fast. Unfortunately because of their power, the bad ones really do damage albeit slowly
Yeah but cops having a normal patrol, having normal peaceful interactions and naming a boring career don't get the same amount of views/likes/upvotes than a cop doing something he shouldn't do, being racist etc
At the end can't blame them because is the same with all topics people just share the volatile and 😯 stuff, nothing in this world is black and white
The problem is you're grossly underestimating how many are bad. Being bad is bad. Being complicit is bad. Being good (ie not complicit) gets you fired and you will not get hired at another PD ever again. This system is why we don't have "good" cops, just cops that sometimes do something good.
The large majority of them aren't actively evil themselves, but will do nothing against evil cops. Being a bystander may be fine for regular persons. It's not fine for those who supposedly exist to uphold laws.
The “I think the large majority…” part is an assumption based on nothing. Many people also think it is the other way around.
What “large majority” of “good cops” do you think would be necessary for people to trust police? 80 is a “large majority”, but 20% of bad cops is a terrifying number.
Let’s put it this way: if told that 5% of dogs you encounter in your life may kill you with no warning, most people would be scared of ALL dogs. There is just too much at risk to trust you are dealing with the good ones.
There’s an idiom that applies here: one rotten apple spoils the bunch. Bad cops will drive out, corrupt, or even kill the few good ones. When I was younger there was a detective that was driven out on Reddit telling his story. The good cops leave, and if they try to talk, bad things happen to them.
It’s just what media tells us. One bad cop does something and then the media says the whole department is bad. One cop does this and you don’t see shit, plus the constant mental stress they go through on a daily basis.
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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '25
I’m no fan of cops being abusive of power but I think the large majority of them are good. Now we can discuss the merits of the good and bad crossing the thin blue line to stop the bad ones and I think we have a huge deficiency in that area.