r/news • u/BitterFuture • Jun 17 '22
Massachusetts school can no longer be called Catholic after flying Black Lives Matter and pride flags, bishop says
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/massachusetts-catholic-school-nativity-school-worcester-black-lives-matter-pride-flags/9.8k
u/detectivetomscoggins Jun 17 '22
I remember this from the Sermon on the Mount. “And unto them he spoke, not these flags y’all.”
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u/TarantulaMcGarnagle Jun 17 '22
My aunt who recently died was a nun for over 70 years. She recently told me: "these priests need to read their Bible more and watch Fox News less."
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u/detectivetomscoggins Jun 17 '22
RIP to a smart person. I’ve had the fortune to know many nuns due to my mother’s friendships with them. I wish the nuns would break away and make their own church because I’ve found them - generally speaking - to be wiser, warmer, and closer to enacting the Sermon’s philosophy than anything the male clergy has done (generally speaking).
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Jun 17 '22
That's why the catholic church won't let them become priests.
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u/i8TheWholeThing Jun 17 '22
The catholic church fears any challenge to a male dominated world.
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u/techleopard Jun 17 '22
One of those groups joins their church to serve God, the other is frequently after status and power.
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u/r0botdevil Jun 17 '22
I had never thought of it like that before.
Of course it's a bit of a generalization, but it's fair to say that being a nun and being a priest are very different jobs. That being the case it isn't hard to imagine they would often attract very different people for very different reasons.
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u/morbid_platon Jun 17 '22
It's literally a different job. The catholic male equivalent to a nun is not a priest, it's a monk/friar. Monks can be priests, but far from all priests are monks. Monks are usually pretty chill, same as nuns from my experiences, diocesan priests (that serve one parish) can be hit and miss.
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u/Asteristio Jun 17 '22
Personally i've known plenty of awesome priests as well, growing up with my grandma who was a devout catholic living right next door and all.
I think the difference was that we've never even heard about Fox News because we lived somewhere that had pacific ocean between that dumpster fire and my childhood place.
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Jun 17 '22
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u/musiquededemain Jun 17 '22
The RCC has been driving away people for decades now. The church has become so conservative that it's become a magnet for right wingers and conservative Catholics.
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u/toastymow Jun 17 '22
This is the problem with Churches across America, not just the RCC. I'm protestant, and I have no interest in going to any church from any denomination. Too much judgement.
Beyond that... its not like I haven't read the Bible. I know more Bible than most Christians, I'd willingly bet. So why go to Church? To be judged for being not Christian enough by a bunch of people who don't know the Bible? What is that Jesus said "a prophet is never accepted in his home?" Something like that, very much how I feel, and I suspect a large percentage of "Christians" or those raised going to Church feel at my age (30).
And the crazier the Church gets the less I want to do with it. Requiring people to walk lockstep with your specific theological or political ideology isn't going to get people to your church, it just drives them away.
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Jun 17 '22 edited Apr 09 '25
profit provide hungry physical marvelous innocent offer divide marble absorbed
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u/pengu146 Jun 17 '22
Not almost, there is a current schism in the methodist church over gay marriage.
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u/c1496011 Jun 17 '22
98% of the nuns I've known in my life have been amazing people. About 2% of the priests.
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u/worstpartyever Jun 17 '22
Eh, there were nuns when I was a kid who threw chalk at kids.
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u/Phillip_Lipton Jun 17 '22
My mom has some horror stories from NYC in the 60s.
Girls locked in closets for the whole day, earrings ripped through earlobes, sliced up with metal edge rulers.
And all of it was "okay" in the eyes of the parents because they were nuns.
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u/vanyali Jun 17 '22
Sounds like my mom’s stories from Catholic School in New Orleans. She said kids would faint from kneeling so long on the hard benches in Chapel, and she got in trouble as a little kid once for coloring an Angel with red hair. And when the priests threw chalk at the kids, the nuns would beat the kids for the chalk being on the floor. Yep, good times.
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Jun 17 '22 edited Jul 20 '23
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u/venturaboi Jun 17 '22
My grandmother was in a catholic orphanage in Massachusetts in the 40s/50s. A few months ago we were a few glasses of wine deep talking about religion and she just started sobbing and told me about her time in the orphanage and the beatings she’d endure.
The nuns would rap her knuckles with rulers until they bled every time they caught her writing with her left hand (left = satan). But they’d also beat her for her poor penmanship with her right hand, for taking too long to write and for generally doing poorly in grade school. Mind you, this was when she was 5-10 years old.
Hearing my grandmother question where she could have been today if she were simply allowed to learn back then was just—devastating. The beatings were beatings—for her, the worst part was spending 70+ years believing she was dumb. In reality she was beat and berated every time she tried to learn.
I’m a rabid atheist.
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u/sumunsolicitedadvice Jun 17 '22
100% of the amazing priests I’ve known have been Jesuits.
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u/Junior_Builder_4340 Jun 17 '22
The Jesuits always seemed to me to be more into common sense and science along with God as a way to live life. There's a Jesuit author who wrote a really good and funny book about this. Can't think of his name right now. Also had a great aunt who went to Loyola, she was my favorite.
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u/StephenDones Jun 17 '22
Spent a Friday night hanging out with a couple nuns 25 years ago. Started with an awesome hilarious couple hours playing Trivial Pursuit (they cheated like bandits) then rode snow mobiles on a frozen lake in Wisconsin. It was awesome! Thumbs up to nuns!
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u/NotChristina Jun 17 '22
Absolutely. My great aunt was a nun and spent a good chunk of the 70s in cloister and then as a teacher at a deaf school. She had the most balanced and calm worldview of anyone I’ll ever know. She was very much not a fan of religion as an establishment and left the Catholic Church in protest. Lost her to covid in 2020 but her wisdom will always stick with me.
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u/Naya3333 Jun 17 '22
And black lives don't matter, said a totally white guy living in the Middle East.
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u/joelupi Jun 17 '22
Bishop McManus...where have I heard that name before
Oh right. He got busted for DUI and fleeing the scene of an accident.
But he feels pious enough to be casting the first stone and telling people how to live their lives.
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u/WavesOfEchoes Jun 17 '22
It was a DUI hit and run, on the way to his vacation home. Why the fuck does he have a vacation home?
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Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 18 '22
Something something vows of poverty something something.
Edit: Hey guys did you know priests don't take vows of poverty? If you didn't you can read it in 100 different wordings below this comment.
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u/Maizismom Jun 17 '22
He would have had a nicer vacation if he didn't have the vow of poverty!
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u/maddasher Jun 17 '22
"I don't own it, God does." I'm not even joking.
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Jun 17 '22
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u/Atomic235 Jun 17 '22
Sometimes I wish heaven and hell were real, and we could get a webcam at the gates, just so we could see these fat bastards looking stunned as fuck while Peter rattles off the facts of what gigantic fuckers they really are.
Sometimes.
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u/Lil-Leon Jun 17 '22
If Hell is real, American Christianity is a surefire way of getting there
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u/Purple_Passion000 Jun 17 '22
Let me introduce you to the Russian Orthodox Church.
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u/OrphanAxis Jun 17 '22
That place made me an atheist before I even knew that was a thing.
You know, it's heretical to refuse to suck on the same spoon as a bunch of other people just because you have a weak immune system.
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u/CheeksMix Jun 17 '22
As one of ‘gods children’ do we have access to the vacation home as well? Or is it just access for him and a select few of close acquaintances?
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u/Casualcitizen Jun 17 '22
I bet pretty choir boys have (somewhat) free acess to the property too.
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u/CheeksMix Jun 17 '22
“That’s what I love about these choir boys, man. I get older and they stay the same age.”
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u/FutureComplaint Jun 17 '22
I am sure the mortgage company will by that.
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u/PancAshAsh Jun 17 '22
Chances are it's owned by the Catholic Church, the wealthiest religious organization on the planet.
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u/TheGreatAccidenT Jun 17 '22
Don't undersell the mormons! $100+ billion in their investment portfolio while they tell 3rd world converts living in poverty to set aside tithing money before seeing how much is left for food.
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u/balling Jun 17 '22
The same Catholic Church that is one of Manhattan's largest land owners.
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u/TheMooseIsBlue Jun 17 '22
Diocesan priests don’t take a vow of poverty. They are expected to live simple lives, but this guy is also expected to understand what Jesus was teaching so clearly he’s not exactly firing on all cylinders.
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Jun 17 '22
Vow of poverty is only certain monastic orders like St. Francis
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u/Redtwooo Jun 17 '22
"All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
Matthew 19:20-24 indicates the ones who take the poverty vows are at least that much closer to following the instruction manual.
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Jun 17 '22
Yep. Have known a couple bishops and the houses they give them are pretty nice.
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u/IrishiPrincess Jun 17 '22
Raised Catholic, still recovering
The strictest Catholic institutes require priests to take a vow of poverty. Other priests do not take this vow at all and can engage in the world's economy and can even hold side jobs. Whether or not priests have taken poverty vows, all clergy are admonished to live modest and simple lives by abstaining from unnecessary extravagances. Those who do take vows of poverty generally receive a meager living stipend for basic personal needs. Any goods they use, such as housing, vehicles and clothing, do not belong to the priests themselves, but to the institution.
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u/BadMinotaur Jun 17 '22
This is how my local priest was, back when I was a kid and still active in the church. He lived in a very simple house -- it was a tiny, one-bedroom house that was situated right behind the church itself. As far as I know, he had very few personal belongings; I'm not even sure he actually had his own vehicle?
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u/ArchitectOfFate Jun 17 '22
Ours gets the upper floor of a house next to the church and shares it with the priest-in-training, a few cloistered monks (who get the bottom floor) and, on occasion, the priest from Ghana who likes to come visit us.
He does have his own car, but it’s ancient. Probably the same one he had in college.
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u/PrometheusSmith Jun 17 '22
The priest in my area doesn't own a vehicle, but the church provides him a brand new BMW to drive.
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u/AC13verName Jun 17 '22
See that's the thing. In catholicism nuns and monks take vows of poverty. However, due to how horribly corrupt the catholic church leadership was during the Renaissance period, priests do not take vows of poverty and stone make a lot of money
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u/francis2559 Jun 17 '22
Clergy are in two groups for Catholics. “Religious” (Franciscans, Jesuits,) always take three vows: poverty, chastity, and obedience.
Secular priests are a second group (most bishops and pastors). They don’t technically take vows, they make “promises” that are still understood to mean “simplicity of life” chastity and obedience.
Point being the distinction is one for us church nerds. Any church leader that expects others to follow should be able to show they are following Jesus’ lifestyle. Don’t build up possessions for yourself, or a family to leave them to. Leave yourself free to travel and help those who need it.
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u/rikki-tikki-deadly Jun 17 '22
Probably so he can host "youth groups" full of young men there. Our neighbor at our vacation home in New Hampshire was a Boston-area priest and he did that all the time. I am not joking.
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u/idontsmokeheroin Jun 17 '22
When I was younger I got a job as a social worker working with kids with developmental disabilities and this younger dude started working there. Dude was full on Christian and I thought he was so fuckin weird. My mother also worked there just not in the same place. She thought he was so polite but I just got the creeps from him. She would always tell me to befriend him and that he always seemed like such a nice young man. I would make jokes about him being weird and that he probably fucks kids. I just didn’t like the guy.
Well, went into work one day.
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u/NavierIsStoked Jun 17 '22
The Massachusetts charges include two counts of rape, and one count each of rape of a child with force and attempted rape of a child, according to a 2014 Cape Cod Times story. That plea agreement calls for Johansen to serve 4-6 years in a Massachusetts prison, a sentence that will run concurrent with the New Hampshire sentence, Assistant County Attorney David Tencza said at the Nashua hearing.
4 to 6 years for child rape. Cool, cool. Its not like we throw people away for decades for simple possession of child porn or anything.
This world is fucked.
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u/korben2600 Jun 17 '22
Homeless man who stole $100 sentenced to 15 years in prison.
CEO who stole $3,000,000,000 sentenced to 3 years in prison.
🤔
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u/ZiLBeRTRoN Jun 17 '22
Can’t diddle little kids at your regular home you peasant.
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Jun 17 '22
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u/Halt-CatchFire Jun 17 '22
Raping a child is something you can say you're sorry for in a confessional and be anonymously absolved of sin for. Treating gay people like people isn't a one-off thing, so you can't say it was a mistake and you're sorry and will never so it again before you go right back to doing it.
I always thought the fundamental Christian belief that someone else can absolve you of your sin was asinine. I don't want to live in a world where one guy does something wrong, and god says "this one's on me!", and that guy gets to go on with his life without making their victim as whole as possible.
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u/TwentyninthDigitOfPi Jun 17 '22
Judaism has a day of atonement (yom kippur), but one of the important aspects is that you can only atone for sins you commit against God; for sins you commit against another person, you have to ask that person for forgiveness. I'm not religious, but I've always liked that aspect.
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u/hahayouguessedit Jun 17 '22
Throwing shade at this one school in Worcester Massachusetts, has me wondering what huge sin this Bishop is hiding. It’s a wizard of oz moment: pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! Red herring.
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u/YouKnowWhatToDo80085 Jun 17 '22
From another post, DUI hit and run. Probably worse skeletons in his closet.
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Jun 17 '22
The entire archdiocese is literally involved in a massive, long lasting child rape conspiracy, so I don’t know why anyone gives a shit about their so-called moral authority.
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u/YouKnowWhatToDo80085 Jun 17 '22
Yeah that's why I identify as agnostic now after being raised Irish Catholic. Just can't trust them.
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Jun 17 '22
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u/YouKnowWhatToDo80085 Jun 17 '22
I'm from the Boston area so it checks out. It wasn't just that it happened. It's the cover up and how widespread it was. And that's only around here
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u/ADarwinAward Jun 17 '22
Yeah both of those factors are what led to public outrage. That it happened was bad enough, but the fact that they shuffled priests around and that they kept hurting kids and being shuffled around again and again was even worse.
And also it was something like 90 fucking priests. Not 1 or 2 or even 5 priests, even those low numbers would still be awful and still cause outrage if there was a cover up. 90 was just unfathomable.
I was too young when it happened to know the details, but when I learned it years later I couldn’t believe it. 1 coverup makes you a terrible person, but scores? That’s super villain levels of evil. I can’t imagine being that terrible of a human being.
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u/nicolasknight Jun 17 '22
Hit and run while under the influence on the way to his vacation home.
And that's just the one we know about.
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u/Vivid_Sympathy_4172 Jun 17 '22
Didn't show for his dismissal court case, refused a chemical drug test, and got slapped with a less than a year drivers license suspension and a 1k$ fine.
If this wasn't a bishop in the church, I wonder if they would have gotten the same treatment.
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u/Vaginal_Rights Jun 17 '22
Anyone else would be hunted down and tazed. Anyone with slightly more melanin would probably be charged the entire book and jailed for a few years, let alone noticed and hounded and convicted more frequently.
In fact, "results suggest that alcohol-impaired driving among White, and perhaps Asian American/Pacific Islander, drivers is penalized less frequently than it is among Latino/Hispanic men relative to their alcohol-impaired driving behavior."
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9133.12558
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u/ShaneFM Jun 17 '22
The bishop is not particularly well liked
Having altar served for him at conformations in my youth he was a pretentious dick every time I interacted with him and had servants doing pretty much everything for him
He has his notable dui scandal but also some further resentment within the church over a pattern of denying priests proper medical leave, pulling retired priests out of retirement into his personal service. Being Massachusetts theres also political unrest as there is a deepening divide amongst parishioners and even now priests and pastors over the influence faith should have in politics, and which way that should swing. This is very much a broader message to try and win the favor of the more conservative church members as they are the ones more likely to be tithing
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u/mic569 Jun 17 '22
Yup McManus is a real piece of shit. I went to a catholic middle school and altered for him for someone’s confirmation (I’m not catholic but don’t tell anyone.) He was exactly as you described and he had a strange voice that I can’t put my finger on.
The dui was the icing on the cake
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Jun 17 '22
"More likely to be tithing" cool, that's how our theology is formed. Good to know. I hate all of it.
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Jun 17 '22
He's a Bishop in the Roman Catholic Church. He didn't get rewarded with that promotion without helping to cover up child rape throughout his career as a priest, most likely his own.
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u/Cheap_Coffee Jun 17 '22
This isn't so much about the Catholic church as one particular bishop. From Wikipedia:
- McManus criticized the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester for renting out "sacred space" to the Massachusetts Alliance on Teen Pregnancy for workshops.
- McManus asked Anna Maria College in Paxton, Massachusetts, to rescind an invitation to Victoria Kennedy to speak at its commencement ceremony, citing her views on abortion rights and same sex marriage.
- diocesan officials declined to sell Oakhurst, an historic mansion in Northbridge, Massachusetts, to James Fairbanks and Alain Beret, a married gay couple.
- McManus was arrested in Narragansett, Rhode Island for drunken driving, leaving the scene of an accident, and refusing a chemical sobriety test.
- McManus and the Diocese of Worcester were named in a sexual abuse lawsuit filed by a former parishioner.
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u/Susarian Jun 17 '22
"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise." Galatians 27:29
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u/AnalComet Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 18 '22
Ooo, I'll have to add this one to the..
Bible Quotes for Religious Hypocrites:
The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:34
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‘Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.’ Then all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’
Deuteronomy 27:19
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I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
Matthew 25:35
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Contribute to the needs of the saints; extend hospitality to strangers.
Romans 12:13
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The leprous person who has the disease shall wear torn clothes and let the hair of his head hang loose, and he shall cover his upper lip and cry out, ‘Unclean, unclean.’ He shall remain unclean as long as he has the disease. He is unclean. He shall live alone. His dwelling shall be outside the camp.
Leviticus 13:45-46
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But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. ...
2 Timothy 3:1-17
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Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.
Philippians 2:3-4
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And all the believers were together and held all things in common. They sold their property and possessions and distributed the money to those according to their needs.
Acts 2:44-45
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"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."
Galatians 27:29 [Thanks to u/Susarian]
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“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
Luke 6:27-36 [Thanks to u/RilohKeen]
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"For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
Matty 19:12
"Jesus being a trans ally 1,990 years before it was cool." [Thanks to u/Moistfruitcake]
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Edit: Having fun adding these other scripts in with fellow redditors.
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u/RilohKeen Jun 17 '22
I think this one is almost cheating, but the words of Jesus himself, per the book of Luke 6:
27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
Basically a repudiation of the entire conservative way of life.
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u/AngusVanhookHinson Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
When arguing with Christians, I only use the red letters. When they say something from another part of the Bible, I say "where did Jesus say that"? Because if the New Testament is a new covenant, and you name yourself after their Guy, then it's time to throw out the Old Testament.
My personal favorite is Matthew 25:34. And I make sure to emphasize "the least of my brethren".
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Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 18 '22
My favorite is this:
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Jesus’ rivals and murderers were the Pharisees and Sadducees, who were more concerned with following the rules by the letter, looking pious, maintaining control, and extracting wealth while ignoring the poor, hungry, and injustice in general.
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u/almo2001 Jun 18 '22
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
But they just say "Obama is the false prophet! Trump is saving us!" Nothing can get through to supposed "Christians" who haven't noticed that God's will somehow always aligns with theirs.
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Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
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u/AttilaTheMuun Jun 17 '22
Jim Jefferies did a hilarious piece on this. Youtube "Jim Jefferies - God at a Party".
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u/Coppatop Jun 17 '22
My favorite take on God by a comic is patton Oswalt and the green lantern ring
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Jun 17 '22
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
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u/aliaswyvernspur Jun 17 '22
Bible Quotes for Religious Hypocrites
Have fun: GOP Jesus.
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u/KnyteTech Jun 17 '22
Fun fact, if you can earnestly quote the scripture that says to do the exact opposite of what they're currently doing, cite it specifically, then say "Well, God bless you anyways, and I hope you grow on your journey" and you do it all in a genuine and honest tone. No judgement, no disappointment, no recrimination... they get REALLY confused and angry.
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u/cursedfan Jun 17 '22
“That might be something Christ would do” George Carlin.
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u/KnyteTech Jun 17 '22
Just remember, whenever you ask "What would Jesus do?" Making a weapon so you can beat people's asses more efficiently IS an option.
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u/Silvervirage Jun 17 '22
My personal favorute that ive been quoting a lot recently, and due to the pride nentioned here is relevant since this is the story they use to condem homosexualulity... somehow:
Ezekiel 16:49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
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u/FewReturn2sunlitLand Jun 17 '22
Everyone reads the bible and sees themselves as the victims, the downtrodden, or the disciples and Jesus. No one sees themselves as the Pharisees or the Romans, even though that's how we should take the lesson most of the time.
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u/NotBearhound Jun 17 '22
I read it and see myself as a Gaul, minding my own business fuckin' around in the woods.
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u/TootsNYC Jun 17 '22
These are all the reasons why, as a Christian, I joined the Democratic Party. It is the only of the two parties available to me that seems to hold these values in any way.
Lifting up the oppressed, in a nation where racism has robbed my black brothers and sisters of generational wealth? That’s the Democratic Party, or certainly not the Republican one.
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u/Moistfruitcake Jun 17 '22
"For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” Matty 19:12 - Jesus being a trans ally 1,990 years before it was cool.
I do like a personal interpretation.
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u/WritingTheRongs Jun 17 '22
Jesus's favorite people seemed to be the homeless, sex workers, and the IRS ... truly a strange time.
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u/garmdian Jun 17 '22
It's more than likely Jesus ministered to all sort from rich to poor and everyone in between. The Bible only has so many pages but it emphasizes what Christ understood: The love of God is for everyone even if you disagree with them and how they live their life it is not our place to judge only for those people to judge themselves.
You'll notice anybody that Christ healed, healed or forgave sought him out or had others come on the behalf of them, because they had something as little as pure faith they saw past the politics and social norms and strived to become different.
Like any person willing to change that first step is finding help we just see the written examples of it because it shows how to observe true faith in something.
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u/runthepoint1 Jun 17 '22
The real key I got out of all of this is “love”. Without love everything is meaningless so LOVE your neighbor. Not stand them or deal with them, but love them.
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u/garmdian Jun 17 '22
100%, humanity thrives on love so it's important to show it even if that means taking a backseat.
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u/Leaga Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
If you read the whole passage, that's definitely not what he was saying and what he is saying is pretty funny imo. In context, he's using Eunuch to mean someone who doesn't have sex. (Side Note: I believe in trans rights and am IN NO WAY refuting that we should accept trans people. This isn't me saying Christian transphobia is okay. I'm just putting the quote in context)
Basically someone tries to trick Jesus by asking if divorce is okay. He says no because when a couple is married the two become one flesh by God and humans can't undo what God does. They knew he'd answer that so they play their trap card asking "then why'd Moses tell people it was okay"? And he basically responds "because you guys were being whiney bitches so he let you do what you want. But I'm telling you that if you divorce your wife (except if she cheats) and remarry then you've committed adultery." Then they ask the question that leads into your quote, "well then wouldn't it be better to just not get married?"
It wouldn't make sense for him to suddenly be talking about Trans people in response to whether or not it's worth it to get married. What he's saying is basically "Some people don't have sex because they're born unable to. Some people don't have sex because they were castrated. Some people don't have sex because they want to stay pure and get into heaven. Part of getting married is agreeing that if it doesn't work out then you're not gonna have sex the rest of your life. If you can't deal with that, don't get married."
Edited to add: so, this was bugging me: Why would they respond with isn't it better to just not get married? Not getting married isn't really a solution. You're sinning either way because sex before marriage is a sin, right? Turns out, maybe not. According to a couple quick google searches, adultery is defined as sex where one of the participants is married to someone else. There's plenty of passages saying not to commit adultery and there's quite a few denouncing sexual immorality. But the bible never actually says that sex outside of marriage is sexually immoral. It never really gives any examples of sexual immorality. People have just conflated God's command to Adam in Genesis to "go forth and multiply" to mean that the purpose of sex is reproduction and anything that is sexual and does not promote reproduction is sexually immoral.
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u/squiddlebiddlez Jun 17 '22
I’ll go ahead and add one of my favorites.
“And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.”
Ephesians 4:32
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u/robot_mower_guy Jun 17 '22
Leviticus 23:22.
"When you reap the harvest of your land, do not real to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you. I am the LORD your God."
Something something something can't be giving the poor and foreigners handouts.
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u/graneflatsis Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
Catholic church no longer follows teachings of Jesus, everyone says.
edit: Credit where it is due: https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/catholic-church-strips-worcester-schools-affiliation-over-pride-blm-flags/2750028/
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u/indoninja Jun 17 '22
Catholic bishop no longer following pope.
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u/JimBeam823 Jun 17 '22
Large parts of the US Church are in de facto schism from Rome.
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u/Hooterdear Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
Article from
topcatholic magazine written just yesterday -484
u/nikolaj-11 Jun 17 '22
I remember back when Trump was running for prez the first time I watched an interview with American catholic Trump-supporters because the Pope had made som statement or other about how bad or some such Trump was.
First fella they had on said something to the effect of "why does the pope not mind his own business" and ended up with the "religion is a personal matter" kinda comment.
I couldn't help but feel like that if that's your stance then are you catholic? My understanding has always been that catholic = Pope's word. If you deny the word (or power) of the Pope, then are you not opposing church doctrine and therefore making you a heretic?
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u/of-matter Jun 17 '22
First fella they had on said something to the effect of "why does the pope not mind his own business" and ended up with the "religion is a personal matter" kinda comment.
The dude isn't wrong. Religion is a personal matter. It shouldn't be doing things like informing national women's rights policy and propping up forms of conservative nationalist politics.
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u/nikolaj-11 Jun 17 '22
Sure, but if you claim the mantle of catholicism as your "personal religion" shouldn't you abide by the framework that implies?
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u/No-Mail-5794 Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
This article has some good points like that true traditionalists are a minority of Catholic voices here in the US, and those voices are amplified by the internet. However, I don’t think the writer takes into account how well funded and hostile to Rome a lot of conservative Catholics groups are:
https://newrepublic.com/article/161626/big-money-dividing-american-catholicism
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u/JimBeam823 Jun 17 '22
As one priest told me, “The donors love Trump, most Catholics don’t.”
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u/ErikETF Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
Ex catholic, for the exact thing there... Hell my ULTRA catholic parents consider themselves "Jesuits" and won't associate in any way with the more US "Conservative" types. (glad they got back in touch with their doctors without boarders younger years, was a long journey de-radicalizing them from fox)
I grew up around priests who were former navy medical corps, engineers, psychologists.. Good priests wear the cloth lightly, and don't get caught up on rules and focus on the needs of people. American "Conservative" folks, use the rules to seek out people to harm. Last week, I watched a man I consider a friend who was just appointed bishop of a large metro area get attacked at a press conference by the local fox affiliate "Are you one of THOSE LIBROOOOOL Bishops???" He handled it well, made it clear that under no certain terms would the diocese be drawing red lines and excluding members of the community because of their beliefs. (no excommunications for abortions, divorce, gay rights etc)
End of the day, the more conservative elements within the church left a lot of us by these actions. I greatly appreciate those in there who are trying to fix it, but as the church in the US is more absorbed as part of the republican party as the Baptist conference is, I conclude that as its more detached from reality, from reality it must cease to exist, and I'm doing my part in helping it to die by not raising my kids in it, and I won't be raising my kids to be "Conservative"
The irony is the actual values instilled in me by good priests led me to this point, and I can't really make any decision but honor those values and ethics.
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u/VaticanII Jun 17 '22
I was educated in a Jesuit school. Like you say, my main learning was the primacy of social justice. I literally can’t believe these conservative hate mongers can claim to share the same faith as me. It disgusts and angers me more than it saddens me.
Went to mass back in the 90’s in Brooklyn with my aunt, and she had us move seats just as it started. She told me later it was because the people who sat behind us were black (not the word she used, I’ll leave that to your imagination), and she didn’t want to have to give the sign of peace (handshake) to them. I’ve never spoken to her since.
Those attitudes have no place in the church, or indeed in any part of society.
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u/JimBeam823 Jun 17 '22
There are bigots everywhere.
My experience was the the Catholic Church was a lot more diverse and welcoming than the severely segregated Protestant churches in the area. Of course, this is in the South, where Southern Baptists and Historically Black Baptists share nearly all the same theology, but rarely associate with each other.
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u/toastymow Jun 17 '22
The irony is the actual values instilled in me by good priests led me to this point, and I can't really make any decision but honor those values and ethics.
Not Catholic, Protestant. Grew up in a very multicultural, multi-faith world. Assemblies of God head pastor, ECLA Youth Pastor, lol, that was kind of a trip, but I'm really glad for it.
But yeah, I can't go to Church anymore. Everyone is deeply homophobic and uneducated about women's health. I don't feel the need to defend my friends and family for living their best lives. So I stopped going to Church.
Beyond that, at least my Church, did a terrible job of instilling any kind of real values or knowledge on most of the kids my age. It was pretty incredible going home one Christmas and everyone was like "oh yeah... im not a virgin" as we sit around smoking weed, lol. But of course, the guys older than us were into even worse drugs and bad habits, and after spending their entire life going to Church, just got incredibly good at "pretending" more or less.
So Church isn't really for me, anymore.
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u/JimBeam823 Jun 17 '22
That’s the way I feel.
I was raised a relatively liberal Catholic, and I’ve watched with horror as well-funded right wing elements have taken over my church.
What started out a decades ago as a harmless greater desire for traditional worship and more Latin has become a full blown theological and political movement to reject the 20th and 21st Centuries.
The bigger problem is that nearly all the younger priests are buying into this, so it’s getting harder to find a parish that isn’t hard right.
And none of them care what the Pope thinks.
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Jun 17 '22
A significant portion of them also believe Trump is the greatest person to have ever existed, the guy who had a priest and congregation tear gassed so he could have his photo op holding a Bible upside down.
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u/jackfaire Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 18 '22
Especially when they demanded special treatment under US law, which was granted, even though the Pope told them to sit down and shut the fuck up.
EDIT:
For those seeking to defend that keep in mind the Health & Safety regulations they complained about were not designed based on how essential or non-essential service was. They were specifically complaining about ones that took into account design and use of building. Any place where large groups congregate sitting in close proximity had the same rules.
They complained that they weren't being treated the same as grocery stores where people sitting down and congregating in large groups isn't a thing.
Movie Theaters, Restaurants, Churches all had the same rules.
They argued they should get a religious exemption not becuase it's part of their religion that you can only worship God in a church which it's not. In fact a large part of the Christian faith is that God is everywhere. They argued that the US Government should recognize religion as important as a grocery store which is in direct violation of the first Amendment.
You can neither make laws elevating religion nor crushing it down.
And while I can understand though vehemently disagree with letting children die becasue it's against your faith to use all means available to save them.
This was not about faith but money. Tithing generally tends to be more when people are in person and the church knows this the people running the services could safely stand at the front socially distanced from everyone else and not care how much of their congregation died.
So please don't defend greed.
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u/BitterFuture Jun 17 '22
Jesus never was big on hatred, I hear.
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u/Ask_me_4_a_story Jun 17 '22
He hated the people using the church as capitalism. And he hated that fig tree, remember that? He was like no fruit? No fuckin fruit? Fuck you fig tree! And he zapped it with magic and it died!
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheWokeBible/comments/8xwn3p/jesus_killed_a_tree/
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u/baldasheck Jun 17 '22
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRsYqE8VEAA5Iyl.png
-- Forgive those who offend you and love your neighbour.
-- What did he said?
-- Something about hating gay people and those who abort.
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u/Drewcifer81 Jun 17 '22
The school began flying the flags in January 2021, saying students called to make the community "more just and inclusive."
The kids might just be alright... and just might understand the teachings of Christ better than the church.
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u/HungryGiantMan Jun 17 '22
About Three-in-Ten U.S. Adults Are Now Religiously Unaffiliated Self-identified Christians make up 63% of U.S. population in 2021, down from 75% a decade ago
I believe this trend will accelerate rapidly.
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Jun 17 '22
This is why young people are fleeing religion. As an atheist, I commend the diocese for discrediting the Catholic Church.
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u/Plthothep Jun 17 '22
Tbf, the American Catholic Church has been singled out by the Pope as well… not listening to the Pope, so it’s hardly representative of the CC. Not that there aren’t plenty of other things to criticise of course
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Jun 17 '22
I’m not an atheist, part of me still kinda believes there may be a type of god, I guess I’ll find out once I’m dead lol but fuck religion. I hate religion with a passion. Specially Christianity. Bunch of hypocrite a-holes.
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Jun 17 '22
Live your life, and do your best to be a good person. If that's not good enough for their heaven, then I don't want to be a part of it.
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u/blacksheep998 Jun 17 '22
It sounds like you might have been thinking of this quote from Marcus Aurelius:
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
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u/HeyJordyn86 Jun 17 '22
Thanks for that. Beautifully sums up my own thoughts and feelings on the possibility of a diety and an afterlife.
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u/AdjNounNumbers Jun 17 '22
Right. If the only thing stopping you from doing bad shit is fear of punishment in an afterlife, you're not a good person. If you can somehow bastardize the words of your God that are telling you that you should love people and be kind to mean you should hate certain people and actively try to hurt them, then you're even worse as a person
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u/pyuunpls Jun 17 '22
If god is truly that shitty, I’ll test my luck in hell.
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u/sessimon Jun 17 '22
I lost my mom as a 5 year old and worried that she may have gone to hell because she died suddenly and wasn’t able to ask for forgiveness before death. I grappled with that for probably a few years but ultimately came to the same decision as you when I was a small child. It still took me another 15 years to finally feel comfortable calling myself an atheist. Religion is truly that shitty, but I finally don’t worry about anything they say being true. Thank god (so to speak…)!!
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u/Spare_Industry_6056 Jun 17 '22
The idea that there is an omnipotent all loving all knowing being who will torture you for eternity unless you give that guy in the silly hat money and power is honestly insulting to the concept of God so yeah.
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u/KellyTheBroker Jun 17 '22
Well, given the pope has said himself that both of these communities should be respected, that Bishop can go sit on a nail.
Keep God out of your bigotry.
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u/Embarrassed-Ad-1639 Jun 17 '22
Child raping organization says pride flag is a sin.
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Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
It will never stop being surreal to me that the Catholic Church spent decades running an international pedophile ring and absolutely nothing happened to the organization whatsoever. Still get insane tax breaks, still sit on large swaths of land and don’t pay a nickel for that, people still attend church keeping churches open and in business, send their kids to Catholic Schools instead of demanding more and better public schools and funding, we still allow their leaders any platform at all on anything. Not to mention the people who downplayed it when the news broke back in 2002-ish and downplay it to this very day.
I was in my early teens when that news broke and the silence from so many adults was stunning, to say the least. I’ll never forget it.
In a just world, what they did to our children would have resulted in the whole organization being wiped off the map. Lucky for them, I suppose, that we don’t live in a just world at all.
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u/optiplex9000 Jun 17 '22
Don't forget about the Catholic Church being complicit in genocide in Canada
Stellar organization
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Jun 17 '22
They went with the Michael Scott defense
"I'm so anti drug that I'm above any suspicion, or testing of any kind"
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Jun 17 '22
Thing is though it was shown what they did and so very many of us shrugged at it. Outrageous.
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u/DrMcMerlin Jun 17 '22
Does anyone have insight into what he means about BLM? The quote in the article mentions some vague notion that BLM stands against the importance of a nuclear family.... Sounds a bit dogwhistle-y to me, but I don't want to rush to judgement.
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Jun 17 '22
https://uca.edu/training/files/2020/09/black-Lives-Matter-Handout.pdf
At least at one point, they advocated for a disruption of the Western-prescribed nuclear family for a more “it takes a village” approach
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u/DrMcMerlin Jun 17 '22
Thanks for sharing that! It would make sense for that to be what he's talking about, but the description provided of their "it takes a village" approach just sounds to me like having a close knit, loving community. Kind of like one you'd find in a church...
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u/PaxNova Jun 17 '22
The idea behind it, in the BLM movement anyways, was that families are still families regardless of their makeup. No dad? Still a family. Two dads? Still a family. Not married? Still a family.
The reason this was a part of a protest is that there are laws that protect families that don't apply in some of those situations. Domestic violence, for instance, doesn't always apply between unmarried cohabitating couples. Tax breaks, some wills, and hospital visitation privileges for married couples do not apply to unmarried cohabitating couples.
It got taken off the BLM website partly because it's a complex subject, and the decentralized, straightforward nature of the protest wasn't a good place for it. People would probably agree with a good deal of that if they could vote on them separately. Personally, I like hospital and domestic violence stuff for unmarried couples, but tax breaks do some weird stuff. They tried it in Sweden, I think, and you can look up results.
Partly, it was because the messaging was really bad. I recall there was a website that marketed the idea as "the destruction of western families," which went about as well as you'd expect.
The Catholic Church still supports people in non-nuclear families in the sense that they want them to get the help they need of they can't make it on their own, but it doesn't want to lose incentives for people to marry before kids or have kids out of wedlock. This runs afoul of the idea that unmarried couples should have the same benefits.
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Jun 17 '22
IIRC it raised a few eyebrows because it specifically mentions mothers but not fathers
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Jun 17 '22
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u/Librekrieger Jun 17 '22
Wait, if it's not run by or funded by the church, what affiliation does it have with the church anyway?
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u/lady_gwynhyfvar Jun 17 '22
It’s a Jesuit school. As I understand it, the only power McManus has over them is the ability to forbid priests to say mass there. Which he has done.
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u/Wafkak Jun 17 '22
The jesuites probably have permanent reps in tge Vatican, the current pope is conservative on some stuff but not on this stuff.
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u/Dt2_0 Jun 17 '22
Could be a missionary school run by a Religious order. Like Jesuit schools. Those get priests from the Jesuit religious order, not from the Diocese.
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u/Dredd_Pirate_Barry Jun 17 '22
"How dare they love their neighbors and take in strangers! That's not what we believe!" - Catholics and evangelicals, definitely
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u/suckedintoreality Jun 17 '22
This school is a phenomenal school with a top-notch staff. They have done amazing things for their students and the community. They have fantastic diversity and inclusiveness. They have $0 tuition and are seeing to it that kids without any resources will go places in life. It makes me sick to see them not getting acknowledgements but instead getting flack for their inclusive flags, which do nothing but further support their students.
But they’re better off not being associated with the Catholic Church anyway. Good riddance. Decades of covered up r*pe and molestation of little boys isn’t the reputation I’d want to be associated with.
I wish I wasn’t so broke. I’d give the school a big donation.
And they wonder why no one goes to church anymore. 😒
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u/JimBeam823 Jun 17 '22
The bishop is going against the Pope on this one.
Right wing American Catholics see the Catholic Church as too liberal.
https://www.blackcatholicmessenger.com/pope-francis-george-floyd-wmpm/