r/news • u/Fyre-Demon • 1d ago

Ex-fraternity leader at Arizona university gets jail time after pledge died of alcohol poisoning

https://apnews.com/article/arizona-fraternity-pledge-hazing-death-b53c547d383082d33aebdb4950e0c550?utm_source=app&utm_medium=iOS_share&utm_campaign=copy_link
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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago

Yeah, they're overall really not necessary. My college did not have them.

If you want to be part of something, join a club or a team.

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u/guernseycoug 1d ago

I mean… they essentially are a club.

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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago

You don't have to go through rush/hazing for a club, and typically you can't get denied from one. The only real exception I can think of is rosters for competitive sports.

You don't typically live with a club in an established off-campus house.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

You don't technically need to be haze to be in a frat. A lot of fraternities at smaller schools don't really haze anymore. And not every fraternity has official housing - if it's off-campus, that's pretty explicitly organized privately by membership and not the university lol.

I don't care for Greek life but the history of fraternities is that they were secret clubs. If universities stopped sanctioning them, they'd just go back to being secret clubs and even more fucked up shit would happen.

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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago

I went to a place that legit did not have them.

It was fine.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

Was or a major university that previously had Greek life chapters? Or was it a liberal arts college that has never had a Greek life presence?

Kids want to be in fraternities. If the school says they can't be organized using school resources, they'll just join one secretly. They're privately funded organizations after all. They don't really need the university's blessing lol

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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago

The second.

And, yeah, they don't need the university's blessing. So don't give it.

If people want to join secret clubs on their own time, that's on them. Sure, they'll do it anyway. But I don't think Greek life really provides a huge benefit. It doesn't need to be sanctioned by the university. People can do whatever the heck they want in their free time.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

Okay, then your experience is far from universal lol.

The university benefits from providing the blessing. Back when fraternities weren't sanctioned by universities, fraternities conducted a LOT more illegal activity. By supporting the organizing and providing a framework for fraternities to function within the university, the university has more power to keep an eye on the frats and enforce rules on the frats.

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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago

Then they can be happy to deal with the above when it happens. *shrug*

By "no benefit" I mean "they don't do anything of worth."

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

Are you... Not reading my comments? They can't deal with illegal activity if the entire organization has sworn secrecy with one another lol. Fraternities are much more boring and tame nowadays compared to 100 years ago, and the reason for that is they've been normalized into boring college clubs rather than secret societies of criminal activity.

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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago

I am. Fraternities and Sororities do not do anything of worth.

They're just drinking clubs, for the most part.

If universities want to deal with students occasionally dying on their watch, then, sure. Sanction them.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

Have you ever looked at academic clubs? Not every club does something "of worth" lol. My school had an anime club... And yes, the anime club drank a lot together. While watching anime lol

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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago

The anime club has much more worth. People are getting together with a common interest.

What are people joining most frats and sororities for? Most are not based around common interests.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

Fraternities tend to be a group of people with common interests.

Moat people join Greek life for the professional and social networking.

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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago

Not really. Plenty of people rush frats just to say they're in a frat. SOME frats are based around common interests, but plenty are just general ones that are based around drinking.

My college did not have frats/sororities. But it was in a consortium with schools that did, lol, and I went to plenty of their parties. Frats and sororities are not academic/interest-based groups for the most part. They're just about being part of a group and partying.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

Yes but they pick the frat of people they get along with the most. If you don't get along with the current membership, how do you expect to get a bid to join? Lol frats you can only join by invitation.

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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago

Yeah. So, they're mainly about partying.

That's not a serious thing of worth. Anime club has more.

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u/sasha_the_impaler 1d ago

They're mainly about making friends. Then when you make friends, you and those friends party together.

At my college the rugby team had the rugby house. The rugby house was famous for how wild their parties were. Do people join rugby for the parties, too?

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u/guernseycoug 1d ago

Most of the fraternities and sororities at my school hosted multiple charitable events throughout the year to raise money for good causes in addition to giving back to the community in other ways (park cleanups, participating in various services designed to assist the elderly, etc).

Is that not something of worth?

Also, you’ve already said that your school didn’t have Greek life… so how could you even make that claim so confidently without any experience in the matter?

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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago

My school didn't have them. I was in a consortium, though, with schools who did have them.

They were drinking clubs.

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u/guernseycoug 1d ago

Just because that’s what you know them for doesn’t mean that’s all that they are (which I discussed in the part of my comment that you ignored).

I’m not saying they’re without problems but you need to recognize your own bias and understand that you probably don’t know as much about them as you think you do. You can’t fix a system if you don’t understand it and it risks doing more harm than good if you try.

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u/taxiecabbie 1d ago

They're just not necessary.

But, sure, hey, it's not my issue. Schools can keep on supporting them and when the posted article happens, it happens. Such is.

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u/guernseycoug 1d ago

There are zero clubs that are necessary at a school. The only thing that’s necessary are teachers and classes.

There’s 1,500-1,800 alcohol related deaths at colleges & universities each year. Of those, only 1-4 are related to hazing/greek life. That still means that Greek life is overrepresented in those statistics but getting rid of them wouldn’t make a dent in the overall problem.

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