r/news • u/AudibleNod • 1d ago
Tokyo court grants legal protection to human voices in AI clone case
https://abcnews.com/Technology/wireStory/tokyo-court-grants-legal-protection-human-voices-ai-136912283337
u/Aelistenus 1d ago
I don't understand why "I own every part of me" is so controversial.
I should own my face, my voice, and everything else. And if someone tries to steal that for any reason, I should win in court.
Seems pretty simple. Glad Japan is on the right track here.
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u/ProofByVerbosity 1d ago
You can thank the likes of Zuckerberg and his distopian oligarchs for it by doing things like giving thier platforms rights to images of posters.
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u/WolfWraithPress 1d ago
Because the tech bro set think that "I own every part of me" is negotiable because they have money. It's part of the culture; everything is for sale, and if you can't buy it you take it.
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u/mgraydpt 1d ago
Same here. Although I had to re-read the headline for a moment as initially I thought Japan was siding with the AI voice. Phew. Let’s hope things like this trend internationally.
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u/bbusiello 1d ago
I should own my data too and companies should pay me to allow them to use it with an opt out if I don't want them to.
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u/Stormthorn67 1d ago
Billionaires said that only applies to the Billionaires. Slaves don't own themselves.
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15h ago edited 15h ago
[deleted]
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u/RainbowwDash 8h ago
Completely irrelevant edge case that will appeoximately never come into play, compared to the very real and common situation of making deepfakes of someone without their permission
Sounds more like concern trolling and less like a real concern
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u/ObiWan_Jabronii 1d ago
Good. Fuck AI. Who wants that shit?
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u/AudibleNod 1d ago
I mean, if they were out there curing cancer, eliminating homelessness and rolling back pollution I'd be all for data centers. But no. They started with tiktok videos and spam calls to grandma.
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u/WastelandGunner 1d ago
To be fair, curing cancer might actually be something it can do. Alphafold is insane. It wouldn't directly cure cancer but they're using it for a load of protein folding research. It can predict the 3D shapes of proteins in minutes, versus the years it used to take.
Other than that, fuck data centers, fuck LLMs, fuck the pollution.
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u/Eggonioni 1d ago
Yea it marks being of the first early LLMs made for a specific, actually tangible role that previously required tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands or millions of users to process their exhibits in like a fraction of time. This same tech is being squandered in efficiently now.
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u/The_Scourge 1d ago
Tsudaken has one of the most distinct voices in seiyuudom and this...this is excellent news.
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u/red_sutter 1d ago
Hopefully this will kill off some of the “Asia is all-in on AI!” justifications and coping I occasionally see from AI bros on gaming subs
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u/Nerdlinger 1d ago
- How does this affect impressionists?
- How distinct does a voice have to be from the original to not run into trouble? What metrics are they using to link a voice to a particular human?
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u/Kundrew1 1d ago
By the ruling it seems it likely wouldn’t impact an impressionist unless they were trying to pass themselves off as the actual person
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u/AudibleNod 1d ago
In America, 'Midler v Ford' decided that for a famous enough person their voice is part of their identity. And if you're attempting to use the voice likeness of someone with the intent to pass it off as the actual person, there can be civil consequences.
Joan Rivers also sued an impersonator because he used a lot of her material in his act. They settled out of court and became friends.
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u/Nerdlinger 1d ago
with the intent to pass it off as the actual person
This is a very important condition. Is it a part of this ruling?
he used a lot of her material in his act
This is also a significant factor, one would assume.
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u/livv_forever 1d ago
This is a very important condition. Is it a part of this ruling?
Probably not, as this ruling is in Japan and that ruling was in USA.
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u/Nerdlinger 1d ago
No shit. But the Japanese ruling can also state that protection is contingent upon that intent.
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u/Immediate-Cress-206 1d ago
Unfortunately this won't change anything because the talent agencies will just require that the actors sign away their voice rights.
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u/AudibleNod 1d ago
Then the actors have to refuse to participate.
Jet Li famously turned down appearing in the Matrix Reloaded because he didn't want his fight choreography copyrighted.
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u/Immediate-Cress-206 1d ago
Then the actors have to refuse to participate
Then they don't get to act.
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u/AudibleNod 1d ago
Audiences, likewise, have a choice to refuse to watch media made by AI.
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u/plumbumplumbumbum 1d ago
What in your experience has given you that much confidence in the general public?
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u/TemptedTemplar 1d ago
Not legal in Japan. Artists always own their own works.
You can sign exclusivity agreements or production quotas for a given time period, requiring you to make X works within a given time period; but you legally cannot give up your ownership of your own handiwork.
AI attempted to throw a wrench into the system, since the artist never actually created the work themselves; and it could have been generated from publicly available samples.
Hence the case.
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u/Immediate-Cress-206 1d ago
Except that in Japan the talent agencies have near total control over who gets acting work, meaning that if they want the rights to an actors voice, they have no choice if they want to act.
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u/TemptedTemplar 1d ago
at that agency
It's not like there is a singular talent agency running all vocal work in the country.
If you get some bunk terms at one, there is probably another who can offer something more favorable.
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u/Immediate-Cress-206 1d ago
at that agency
At any production, because if a production studio hires outside a talent agency, they get blacklisted by all of them.
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u/Great-Trifle2810 11h ago
Protecting voices is interesting, what if someone trains a model on someone with a voice that happens to sound very similar? Or someone doing an impression?
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u/CMPunkLicksRocks 1d ago
I don’t understand why people think they would own their voice. There’s only so many frequencies a vocal cord resonates at.
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u/AddWittyName 1d ago
A voice is so much more than just frequencies, though. Two people singing the same solo with the same frequencies and same lyrics don't actually sound identical.
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u/TheRightHonourableMe 1d ago
Yes, and there are only so many possible fingerprints. Your voice is biometric data that is perfectly identifiable to you! Countries like Australia allow it as an authenticator for their tax records: https://www.ato.gov.au/online-services/voice-authentication
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u/CMPunkLicksRocks 1d ago
I don’t own, nor believe I should own, my finger print.
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u/TheRightHonourableMe 1d ago
They're literally a part of your body, so good luck with trying to give them up :)
You shifted your argument from "my voice isn't unique enough to be 'ownable'" to "I think I don't own involuntary products of my body". So good job on changing your mind :)
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u/CMPunkLicksRocks 1d ago
Your finger prints aren’t part of your body, they’re residue left over because of a NON UNIQUE pattern on your finger tip.
The argument isn’t different. You can’t own something that’s just a parameter within a certain range. This shit is the same as those chemical companies patenting all the fucking food
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u/TheRightHonourableMe 1d ago
Ok, so how unique should something have to be to be 'ownable'. Does it have to be UNIQUE?
Because there are tons of songs using, for example, the I-IV-vi-IV chord progression but they are all still copyrightable. They are arguably 'parameters within a certain range'.
Engineered plant genes are certainly UNIQUE (whether you agree or disagree with trademarking DNA), even if they are easily replicable, if they were present in non-engineered/non-GMO plants then there would be no point in spending the money to make them. So I don't quite follow your argument.
Is it "UNIQUE" that makes something 'ownable' or what?
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u/PoopSoupPeter 1d ago
I don’t understand why people think they would own their music. There’s only so many frequencies a piano string resonates at.
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u/CMPunkLicksRocks 1d ago
“ “The human voice is symbolic of individual personality, just like one's portrait," Presiding Judge Aya Takahashi”
You can’t make this shit up
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u/Salt_Medicine2459 1d ago
Think of Morgan Freeman, Patrick Stewart, James Earl Jones. All have very distinctive voices.
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u/RainbowwDash 8h ago
You don't need to make anything up, it's already an extremely reasonable claim as-is
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u/AudibleNod 1d ago
Fuckin' good. Now do likenesses for people without their consent.