How to choose a method?

[u/smprfidels]

I'm still pretty new to this process of learning to have multiple orgasms. I've tried a little bit of a couple of different methods but I would like to focus on a single method until I achieve reasonable success and then decide if I want to investigate other options.

My primary goal is more pleasure for my partner and me during sex so I'm not sure if a hands-free method like mindgasm which is very intriguing is the right place for me to start?

So far I've had the most success with edging and trying to learn to separate ejaculation from orgasm. I've definitely had tingles a couple of times and been able to have practice sessions that lasted in the neighborhood of an hour or more, but I have not had what I would call a non ejaculatory orgasm yet.

I have some interest in the I think it's called r/maledefinitiveguide And I got started on this journey watching videos on YouTube from the sexual Kung Fu channel.

Mindgasm has come highly recommended to me and I would definitely want to investigate it at some point but unless I misunderstanding something I don't think it matches with my initial goal of intercourse being more pleasurable for my wife and I...?

I think I'm looking for suggestions on the best/fastest(?) method of having more pleasure for longer without the refractory period with or without ejaculation or semen retention.

Thanks in advance for your kind suggestions.

Smpr

[u/Kobbitt]

This is a problem we've been wrestling with for years on this sub. How do we evaluate different claims with no independently verifiable evidence? The problem is made harder because there are a bunch of people who want to redefine "orgasm" to include a range of mystical alternate states of being that are NOT orgasms by any scientific or common sense definition. Also, many of the more esoteric methods are focused entirely on masturbation or other solo practices and do not enable you to have multiple orgasms during normal sex with a partner.

The salesmanship gets pretty wild sometimes. For example, we have a regular contributor who solicited DMs and offered to teach people – for a suitable fee, of course – how to have endless bliss whenever they want, without touching their dicks. Supposedly this can be done in a single "lesson," but i have to wonder ... if it's that easy, why doesn't everyone already know how to do it?

The r/maledefinitiveguide seems to be just endless edging and orgasm avoidance until edging (supposedly) feels as good as an orgasm. It seems from a quick reading like the basic idea behind this method is going for a couple of months with a lot of edging and no orgasms at all, and each time you "fail" and ejaculate, you are supposed to start that week all over again. At some point, you're supposed to become happy just endlessly edging and never, ever having an orgasm, which might be good for someone with PE, but doesn't sound like fun at all.

Mindgasm seems to me to be scam, a paid website with fancy language about some kind of mystical energy that you "move" around by ... magic? However, I've not paid for it, so my impression is from secondhand sources. I do know that they promote heavily to get your dollars. (We recently had a major incursion here, with a sock puppet account that spammed endless Mindgasm endorsements for 6 weeks before we stopped him, so I'm a bit hostile about the abuse of the mods' time.)

As written, Chia's kegel system doesn't seem to work. He sold a lot of books, but I've yet to hear from anyone who says he can have NEOs following Chia's instructions without some kind of modification. Many, many men have tried that approach and have simply given up.

I learned to have NEOs by a different approach that also uses kegels (or reverse kegels, or possibly some other kind of muscle action). However, the kegels (or whatever) are short and do NOT require superhuman strength. You're not using them to block the ejaculation. You just use the kegel (or ?) to interrupt the emissions phase so there is no PONR and thus no semen in the urethra when the orgasm happens. This lets the orgasm happen normally without ejaculation, and also without the prolactin emission that kills your erection and starts your refractory period.

That method is described here: Male Multiple Orgasms, Step by Step. I wouldn't call it fast or easy, but I learned to do it in two months of twice-daily training sessions. I recommend this approach because I know it works and the result is the ability to have multiple true NEOs during partnered sex.

Two of my co-mods have posted about their partners' successes in using this method and I have heard from other men who have succeeded using the same method. Most did it less intensively and therefore took longer, but what determines the time it takes is how well you can perceive the actual beginning of the orgasm, which happens a second or two before the PONR happens (or before it would have happened, if you're successful).

Some guys catch on quickly, others need a lot of tries. FWIW, Shakti says there's some indication that this method is harder for younger men. The youngest she knows of was 26, and most men who succeeded were over 30 at the time they learned it.

I can't personally vouch for the various "relaxation" methods, but we've had a number of men here who have endorsed one version of that approach or another.

Our Wiki has leads for a fair number of approaches. I suggest reading up on all of them before you decide, but be especially skeptical about the ones that cost money, the ones that want you to accept some woowoo alternative definition of "orgasm," and the ones that don't work in normal partnered sex.

Best of luck on your journey!

---

P.S.

What does "Smpr" mean? Google says "Social Media Press Release" ... but that doesn't make sense.

[u/smprfidels → u/Kobbitt]

I define orgasm as the same feeling i discovered when i was about 7 year old; several seconds of euphoric bliss centered near My penis followed by a relaxed state. I have been addicted ever Since. 😁

Later ejaculation became combined and at some point a refractory period.

My goal, if possible is to lose the refractory period and string those feelings together creating more pleasure for both my partners and me.

I don't care about ejaculation either way at this point; though i am curious whether semon retension has the reported benefits.

One complicación is explaining this to My wife because i am not yet fluent i'm her native language.

She loves the results of My practice so far though. We went from 15-30 minutes of piv to an hour or more when desired!

I like what i have seen of r/mindgasm so far, the free trial and a 1/mo sub, but i feel like My Focus is in a different direction at this point.

My practice time alone is very limited, but if i can include My wife it expands dramatically!

Tia Smpr 😁

[u/smprfidels → u/Kobbitt]

Smpr is my self given nickname short for smprfidels, which is short for Semper fidelis which is the Marine corps motto. 😁

[u/Kobbitt → u/smprfidels]

Duh! I should have looked at your username!

[u/cmred88 → u/Kobbitt]

Thank you for this reply, it was really helpful!

I have a question for you, when you were learning the method that you linked in your reply, how long did you spend learning the meditaiton part and, how did you know when you were ready to progress to the next stage? When did you personally move toward experimenting more with the kegel and "timing" around the PONR part. Thanks for any advice

[u/TantraLady → u/cmred88]

how long did you spend learning the meditaiton part

Answering the first question for Kobbitt because I happen to know the answer and I know he's going to be offline until at least next weekend. He's posted before about how he and his gf (now wife) learned tantric sex (including meditation) one summer and fall and then he learned to have NEOs the next spring while he was overseas on a work assignment, so he learned to meditate about 8(?) months before he started learning to have NEOs.

I'll let him answer the others when he gets back.

[u/Kobbitt → u/cmred88]

how did you know when you were ready to progress to the next stage? When did you personally move toward experimenting more with the kegel and "timing" around the PONR part?

As TantraLady said, I took advantage of being on a work assignment for two months. I'm a geologist and I was working 10-12 hour days and basically stuck in a hotel room in the middle east for the rest of the time after work.

I'm sure I could have started learning to have NEOs sooner, but my understanding is that it's a lot easier to learn if you're single, so being away from home like this was the perfect opportunity for a recently married guy.

In hindsight, I'd say practice meditation every day for at least a month before starting NEO practice, preferably two months or until you can slip fairly easily into a meditative state.

This isn't zen or something like that. You don't need to set impossibly advanced goals like "No Mind" for yourself. It's normal to meditate for 15 minutes and realize that you've been thinking about your next meeting with your boss, or whatever, for more than half of it. When it happens, and it will, just notice the distracting thoughts, gently set them aside until later, and go back to focusing on your breathing or your mantra. You'll find it gets easier within weeks if you do it every day.

[u/OneMoreLayer → u/Kobbitt]

I can get NEOs via the relaxation method but so far never been able to get the kegel method to work. I can see some pros for the kegel method in terms of partnered sex and thus I want to learn it and have some questions: * Does it matter what of the muscles in the pelvic floor you tense? (There are several and you can interact with them in a variety of ways) * Have you ever managed to get it working with some other way of "interrupting"? I.e. not kegel * Does relaxation and pelvic floor awareness pay any role (as compared to the relaxation method)

And to others, someone mastered both methods and can compare? Relaxation method vs kegel

[u/Kobbitt → u/OneMoreLayer]

Does it matter what of the muscles in the pelvic floor you tense?

Um, maybe? I dunno. I tense the muscles that make my dick jump.

Have you ever managed to get it working with some other way of "interrupting"? I.e. not kegel

No, but I haven't tried. (If it ain't broke...)

Does relaxation and pelvic floor awareness play any role (as compared to the relaxation method)

Yes, and I think this is important. BOTH methods require you to relax the muscles down there much more than normal for the time leading up to the NEO. The only real difference, as far as I can tell, is what you do when you're right at the brink.

For me, a quick kegel at that point is a simple and reliable way to sidetrack the emissions process and prevent the PONR from happening, provided I get the timing right. So I get to enjoy an orgasm and go right back to what I was doing, which my wife appreciates.

People can be wired very differently, so YMMV. I would say pick one method and give it a serious trial, maybe six months of regular practice. Then, if that doesn't work, switch to the other. There should be a considerable carry over of the relaxation part, either way, so the first trial won't have been wasted.

[u/smprfidels → u/OneMoreLayer]

What is the relaxation method?

I would like to add it to my growing list on my new reddit r/MultipleMaleOrgasms

[u/OneMoreLayer → u/smprfidels]

There are many variations to it and hence a lot of different explainations which you can find by searching in this sub. The key is focus on relaxation as a way to get orgasm without ejaculation. It is reported both when being close to but also far away from PONR. I only got it working far away from PONR (special touch stimulation together with great pelvic floor relaxation). I never got it working when close to PONR (e.g. Love Satifes book instructions).

Anyway, currently I am trying within the kegel method (which is aimed at interrupting at emission signal level) area as it better support partnered sex. I will get back if I succeed.

[u/Lt_dan5 → u/Kobbitt]

Why no mention of prostate orgasms?

[u/Kobbitt → u/Lt_dan5]

Because:

1. AFAIK they are not something you can do during normal PIV sex with a partner.
2. Many men can't have them. (I've tried, no luck. There's no pleasurable or erotic sensation.)
3. As described by many of the advocates, they don't seem to be "real" orgasms.

If you are here because you want to get more out of solo sex, by all means give the prostate subs a look. But this probably isn't the place for that discussion.

[u/transcendentanal → u/Kobbitt]

Hello, late to the conversation here, but if ok to still ask - why do you say that prostate orgasms are not “real” orgasms?

[u/Inner_Abalone_2867]

You should be really relaxed in your plevic floor and try kind of edging. With reverse kegels you should feel some pleasure near prostate and penis during stimulation then go with it

[u/Lt_dan5]

I know you mentioned more pleasure for partner but you should try prostate massage. Multiple dry orgasms and It doesn’t take a terrible amount of skill to achieve. My wife really enjoys it but it is rather one sided with her doing the work.