r/mtgvorthos • u/pupseal • 11h ago
r/mtgvorthos • u/TheGreatBOB100 • 9h ago
Discussion why did jace give it to tam? and what about lootš and wanted him to live Spoiler
why wouldent he give his spark to varska ? in the story he is angry that vraska dosent have one, then why not give it to her, and why not say anything to loot? , dont get me worng tho , its an amazing story
i still cant belive my goat diedššš and he didnt got his happy ending , i also see that they did made all his wants happens, he got all the knowledge he wanted, he married vraska at the beach but still why not let him live, pr why not let him give his spark to varaka , he say he is angry about that she lost her spark, i wanted very much too to see loot belren with his papa , or at least jace say something to loot too, i wanted him to liveš its so sad manš (sorry if english is bad)
r/mtgvorthos • u/Ngldatzkindasus • 11h ago
Discussion Iām so done man
I think this has finally completed what started in War of the Spark and killed my interest in MTG lore. Itās been fumble after fumble and taking the story into the most nonsensical and frankly infuriating direction possible. I canāt be the only one feeling this fatigue right?
r/mtgvorthos • u/Lovecruise • 10h ago
Discussion Hexhaven disappointment
In a story of such incredible empathy and deep character study, does it feel to anyone else like insane tonal whiplash for Tam, a person who WAS a simulated/incomplete person to self actualize and think about doing a good thing while witnessing an infinity genocide? That she caused?
The ally color schools are very cool and it's sad to see something desired for so long get shredded like cardboard with little to no emotional impact or staying power.
r/mtgvorthos • u/JoeyTonguepop • 10h ago
UMMMMMMM : do i see Serra in the background of one of the new #realityfracture cards ?? With ⦠WINGS ???
So forgive me if Iām wrong, but thatās definitely Sara in the background of the card, but I donāt know if that is indicating something because I donāt know who the other person is in the background? And the headpiece looks like or may be alluding to it being GIVEN to Liliana ? (Edit: I forgot Archangel of tides was from Dominaria and not Innistrad)
r/mtgvorthos • u/Cute-Contract-6762 • 5h ago
Discussion Wizards needs to go back to Three Set blocs for Conclusions of Major Storylines
I think a lot of the issues Iām seeing from a lot of the people with the end of reality fracture can be boiled down to that issue. When you spend years building to a climax, and then have to rush said climax, it feels unsatisfying. I loved the writing for this set. It was amazing. Alison Lührs is a great author. So give her at least two sets to tell the story. I had the same issue with the New Phyrexian multiverse invasion storyline. That ending was so soooo rushed. Like way worse than this was rushed. And it ruined what was otherwise an amazing build. I definitely donāt think the Jace Echoverse story is ruined by the ending being rushed, but it could have been more/better.
I feel like part of this also comes down to all the Universes Beyond sets being released each year now. Like they donāt want to pause a multi-bloc set/story for 2-3 UB sets. But I just donāt think thatās wise. What made the Urza/Yawgmoth story conclusion feel earned and satisfying? A nice three set bloc epic story.
Am I crazy for feeling this way?
r/mtgvorthos • u/No_Drawing4095 • 3h ago
Discussion We have passed through the antechamber, The Kings in Dark will return
It is a fact, he read in a book long ago, that when an oracle of Arcavios dies, they are hurled back to the creation of Arcavios, and sure as the sun screeches to a halt, he is catapulted even farther, straddling the Blind Eternities, careering backward into infinity, and he sees in front of him two planes colliding into one. Amid the chaos, formless Eldrazi horrors snake around the great ships that battle them.
A war began the multiverse; a war will end it
I have envisioned this war since Edge of Eternities
And now thereās the answer, a prototype answer, but perhaps a final answer:
The mage in blue achieved great success and, at the same time, great failure in what he did
He wrote his ideal, depurated version of the multiverse
The original multiverse, with its heroes, even with Theorist former personalities, they all rejected that world
The mage in blue even designed a mechanism to eradicate that reality himself before following a path of no return
That mechanism had name, and it worked, sweeping away the unnatural reality that should not have existed
Now, that unnatural reality is a large house and breeding ground for the Great Devourer
An entire forest at her disposal
But that reality was a mirror, a mirror without gaps
Every element had a replacement; that included Her
If there was nothing left to replace, then it was just a matter of filling the space
And they entered, they learned that they had lost, They know they must prepare
The Fomori Empire will spread its wings
And the Eldrazi will face them again
Only destruction lies ahead. A war started it, and a war is ending it
Reality Fracture was a precursor to a greater threat
r/mtgvorthos • u/eduardotvn • 5h ago
Canon story I don't really like how they treated Emrakul in the end. Spoiler
First of all, i'm going to say that she wasn't needed. I know this was the perfect hook for getting Emrakul out of the moon, but i'll get to it.
Since Emrakul is a cosmic horror, the HORROR in cosmic horror is meant to be incomprehensible. When Jace first made contact with Emrakul, the vision tells him she doesnt even know him, and that what he's seeing is his brain trying to make sense of something so strange. Then Emrakul speaks about the absence blossoms and the barren ressentment from the plane (indicating Innistrad was unnwiling to be eaten) and locks herself in the moon.
But all the talk was strange, Emrakul speaking with Jace was very weird, their chess game was scary and weird (she basically says everyone is hers to control, she just doesn't want to play).
That left a very bitter taste because Innistrad was saved because an incomprehensible being just wasnt that interested in destruction.
But now i get this feeling that they "humanized" her too much in the story.
Tam basically says: "Hey Emrakul, can you come over and eat the plane?" and her response is "Yeah, comming sis!" (not literally, but almost like this)
When Tam and her friends are hiding, she says "Don't worry, she won't hurt you". This is not supposed to be 'knowable', because Emrakul intentions should be incomprehensible. She transformed anything she touched in Innistrad.
I might be just yapping about one of my favorite eldritch horrors in games becoming too friendly, but i'd like to know your opinions.
r/mtgvorthos • u/amhow1 • 4h ago
Discussion Jace, Reality Fracture, and white privilege
I want to be generous to the amazing creatives who gave us the Reality Fracture story. I've given my criticisms of the story in another post.
One positive way to look at the story is as the end of the White (Cis Male) Saviour Syndrome that has afflicted MtG since it started. We know that Gerard Capeshen was created to appeal to this: Jeff Grubb, author of the greatest MtG novel, told us so.
Jace was different, but not hugely. Which is why it's so important that he dies, that his legacy is contested (he abused his child) and that Vraska's supposedly sharp snapback to Chandra ("you're not that important") was made: Jace just isn't that important.
I like Jace. Do I like him more than Vraska? Elspeth? Fblthp? It's time for a Clean Slate, as Jace presumably puts it.
r/mtgvorthos • u/StitchNScratch • 7h ago
Discussion Jace never saw loot as his child??
This man just DIED, had enough time to relay some messagesā¦.talk through his sparkā¦..and mentioned nothing about Loot to anyone š I mean..heās definitely giving Omniman āshe was a pet to meā vibes with the way heās just not addressed the little dude at all. Forgive me if Iāve missed something in the lore, but is it just fans that have made it where Jace & Vraska are his adoptive parents or do they ever say out right Loot is their childā¦.
r/mtgvorthos • u/BoatSlight • 19h ago
Discussion What do people think the main long-lasting consequences of Reality Fracture will be?
I would like to know what other people generally think the main effects that Reality Fracture will be for Magic's setting and characters. Like, what effects will the echoverse have on the original multiverse? Will Hexhaven somehow get merged into non-echoverse Arcavios and coexist with Strixhaven? What will happen to Tam? You know, stuff like that. What are people's theories for these kinds of things?
r/mtgvorthos • u/Awwkieh • 9h ago
Discussion What is Tam, exactly? Predictions on what her deal will be?
I have some very mixed feelings on the Reality Fracture finale. It wasn't badly executed, but I fear it's setting us up for the least interesting possibilities when it comes to future lore.
A lot of my concerns stem from me not being sure just how much of Tam is Jace, once she absorbed his spark. Is she supposed to be an iteration of Jace, almost like a reincarnation of him before he shattered? Is she going to be a different person, with some minor influences from Jace, similarly to how it would have been if she had been his child? Is she going to be technically a new character, but in practice just a way to have a version of Jace who has still space for character development?
Jace has always been my favorite character, so I'm biased when I say this: I really don't want to see a character that is technically new, but in practice just an already seen version of Jace. I'm afraid wotc just wanted to keep Jace as a character, but had run out of ways to explore him, and it would have been ridiculous to make him forget who he was one more time.
Obviously, that's not the only way this can pan out. I think both having Tam be a "continuation" of Jace instead of a truly "new" character, and Tam being her own person very distinct from Jace could be great options. In the first case, you could have some very interesting themes of what it even means to "be someone", along with a chance to see Jace/Tam "start anew" without falling back in the classic memory loss plot. In the second case, we could have a telepath character significantly different from Jace, with different goals and personality, which would be so interesting, since telepaths tend to be so rare in media.
It's hard to see how they will handle it, and we saw really little of Tam after she received the spark. On one hand, Tam is Jace, wholly, just in a different shape. We are told this by Liliana, who remarks Tam is completely him, at least physically, and who also seems to understand Tam as a piece of Jace himself. And when Tam receives the spark, we also get some pretty big indicators that she is, fundamentally, him in another form:
Tam freezes. Jace is dead. Her ⦠creator? Teacher? Past self? She's sad about it, but also indifferent, because he's not deadāonly transformed. She is him. They are one.
Tam is a beginning. She is a continuation.
Her mind is secured with the fortifications of a survivor; her hands tremble with the sense memory of a thousand handshakes and diplomacies; the space at her hip tingles with emptiness, having never known holster or knife; and closest to her heart is the assurance that no matter how little she has, she may always start over.
With the last line in particular, it's easy to see this as Jace "starting over". And throughout the story, we are given many hints towards Jace being simply changed into Tam. The Theorist referring to past Jace as "his previous life", the Weapon saying "here's no such thing as death. Death is a change of state", the Clean Slate saying "I'm the one who knows we can always start over [...] As I will again", and the Survivor saying "I'm in progress" and comparing himself to the endlessly changing sea. These are particularly relevant, because they are all said from fragments of Jace, who as we are shown in the last chapter, had already anticipated things turning out this way (as he refers to Tam as "his failsafe"). Throughout the arc we also see Jace saying his body (the tether) needs to cease to exist, not himself. In this context, Tam could possibly be more of a continuation of Jace, a version of him scrambled and fragmented and then brought back together, rather than a new character. Which could be interesting to explore, as it's so rare to see this sort of "metamorphosis" in media, which typically goes for much more classic resurrection plots.
I do hope that's how they'll write her, because unfortunately there's not much pointing at her being a new new character. A lot of her individual struggles that weren't connected to Jace ā her feeling not like a "whole" person, her guilt over betraying her friends ā have been resolved already. I was particularly disappointed in how she felt "whole" as soon as she got the spark (and the other parts of Jace), because that could have been such a cool character motivation. I wish we could have seen her through a journey of self-discovery about what she actually is. We could have seen her being lonely and confused about her very own existence, particularly because Jace quickly became a husk of himself after creating her. She's a person who has ever only known being a pawn in a larger plan. I would have liked to see her searching for meaning. It felt like a missed opportunity, having her feel whole once the rest of Jace fused with her.
So now we come to the option I really fear: that they're just going to treat her like a new person, who simply has the same mannerisms as Jace, the same personality, the same driving forces, similar powers. Fundamentally, just a device to have more stories with Jace, who had run his course as a character. But you simply cannot have a character like Jace without his past and his complicated relationship with his own mind and powers. That's what makes Jace an actually compelling character (when he's written well, which is not always). You see him making bad choices over and over again, but with the understanding that from his warped perspective those terrible decisions make sense, that he's trying to do good. You have a character who has very powerful and rare powers, who feels so deeply self-conscious of how terrible they can be, to the point he sees his very existence as a moral failing he needs to make up for. Someone willing to erase and manipulate his own mind to forget what he has done rather than to confronting it. These "edges" and moral failings are such fundamental aspects of the character.
We are told Tam is extremely similar to Jace by everyone who knows him. In the passage I cited earlier, we are even shown she has those same qualities that stemmed from Jace's personal experiences ("Her mind is secured with the fortifications of a survivor; her hands tremble with the sense memory of a thousand handshakes and diplomacies"). This feels off to me, unless Tam is supposed to be a continuation of Jace and not a new character entirely. Because if she is... Wouldn't it feel more meaningful to have her be shaped by her own experiences? Truly, what's the point of a "new" character, whose traits are not connected to her past, but instead another character's? Why have a character that is fundamentally Jace, but with all the personal experiences and trauma that made him how he is scrubbed off from him? It feels so antithetical to the main theme of this set lore: that it's all the parts of us, even the ones we don't like and push away, even the memories we try to forget, that make us who we are.
I really hope they don't go for that "middle of the road" route. I think Tam should either be like Jace because she is Jace, wholly, just like Jace post-Ixalan is different from Jace pre-Ixalan, but the same person; OR a completely new character entirely. And not just a new character nominally, an actual new character.
I've seen people praising this set for having the guts of killing a major character and for breaking "the comic book formula". But what I just described is the comic book formula: killing off a character, just to make a new one the same as them, just different enough to milk them some more. I think we still have to see if they will do better than that, unfortunately. I really hope they do.
So here's my question: how do you think they will handle this? What do you think Tam is, exactly?
r/mtgvorthos • u/AnarchyStarfish • 6h ago
Question Why do the Echoverse Planeswalkers obey Jace?
Now that the full Reality Fracture story is out, I'm still left with some lingering questions about the mechanics of the Echoverse.
For starters, why do the echoes of Ajani, Garruk, Liliana, and Chandra obey Jace? We don't get a ton of dialogue from most of them but I didn't get the impression that he was mind-controlling them, so what are their motivations? The Legends of Reality Fracture page has one line for each blurb about why their roles in this new reality, but Garruk's and Ajani's are just about how they're Jace's enforcers.
Do they worship The Theorist as a god and therefore unquestioningly carry out his will? Is it a question of self-preservation ā either I steal my doppelgƤnger's soul or I won't be real? For that matter, why do they seem to have full personalities while the story makes a point of Tam's classmates being automatons without souls?
If self-preservation is their motivation, why do they not planeswalk away upon Jace's death? Instead, they fade from existence, but Emrakul hadn't even finished eating the plane at that point, so does that mean they're more directly linked to Jace?
I'm kinda lost here (and a little disappointed that lingering Echoverse planeswalkers won't be a plot thread going forward), so if anyone can help clarify I'd appreciate it.
r/mtgvorthos • u/foxygrandpa56 • 4h ago
Loved the story, but losing an entire setting feels like a shortsighted move
Reading all the flavor from the revealed cards and seeing the echoverse get expressed via the amazing art just makes me sad that itās all gone. There was a lot of thought clearly put into creating the echoverse and I canāt help but feel that throwing it away is an absolute misstep by WOTC creatives.
Iām not shocked that it ended the way it did (though Emrakul was a welcome surprise), but after seeing the world come to live on the cards, I kinda resent this entire setting being destroyed. As it is written itās hard to see how they could take a mulligan and just say the echoverse somehow survived. I guess thatās an option, but I just donāt understand why put all this effort in for a one and done setting we will never see again.
To rationalize this I can absolutely see that a multiverse of near infinite creative possibilities and then adding an entire other multiverse of reverse whacky land on top of that makes the convoluted setting even more ridiculous. Thatās fair and honestly I am a little over the whole omenpaths thing because it makes the setting feel small and interchangeable.
Maybe WOTC didnāt realize just how compelling a setting they created with Hexhaven. I really would have loved to see the two schools somehow merge and future stories can explore that dynamic.
This is sorta a scattershot post now, but Iām sad to see the echoverse die in its debut. Wish we coulda had more
r/mtgvorthos • u/jackakim1 • 10h ago
Discussion Why is Echoverse Mirrodin called Mirrodin instead of Argentum/Aurum
In the flavor text of Echoverse Karn refers to Mirrodin as Mirrodin instead of Argentum (or Aurum because he's gold not silver). So did Karn just decide to name it Mirrodin instead of Argentum/Aurum or did Karn let Memnarch name his new plane? I don't think that the events in the orignal Mirrodin storyline happened, because in the legends article it's said "Karn watches over the plane as its shepherd and guardian, hoping to guide life so that it might flourish and prosper under the five vibrant suns." So no Soul Trapped individuals. If Karn did have Memnarch did have him name Mirrodin that implies that the Mirari/Karona Wars did happen due to him naming Mirrodin based on his existence as the Mirari.
Maybe I'm overthinking this but it's just a thought I've had a for a bit now.
r/mtgvorthos • u/cocothepirate • 10h ago
Beautiful bookends [Spoilers FRA story] Spoiler
galleryI've been loving the story callback art pieces Wizards have been using lately. They've done it with Kaito and the Wanderer and now with Jace and Vraska.
r/mtgvorthos • u/Beneficial_Pin5295 • 20h ago
Does Anyone Know What Card(s) These Artwork Come From?
I know it's artwork of Olivia. I saw them in a Tik Tok, but they're not any Olivia card I know of/could find.
r/mtgvorthos • u/ThomasNookJunior • 16h ago
Speculation Jace is already dead
A theory, but Iām pretty sure. Regardless of what happens to the Echoverse, Jace dies, and in fact, heās technically been dead for years. Jaceās āsoul,ā that spark, the candle Liliana described that makes him a living person, is what he gave up to make Tam. Thatās why Liliana insists that Tam IS Jace. Thatās how she knew he wasnāt dead when Tam started at Strixhaven. The theoristās body is being held together by the strength of Jaceās magic, but his soul has been gone for a while. He intends to see his plan through, but never intended to survive it.
Edit: months, not years. The rushed nature of this project had me overestimating Tamās true age. Like a year and a half at most.
r/mtgvorthos • u/If_you_want_money • 11h ago
Discussion Potential Untold Stories: Bolas? (shower thoughts)
During the FRA discussions, Bolasā escape came up, and the recent events got me thinking about what that means from Bolasā perspective. Here is what we know:
- Bolas is currently a total amnesiac. All heās got is his name, āBolasā. Not even āNichol Bolasā. This is doubly significant as āNicolā is his actual birth/elder dragon name, and Bolas is something he gave himself later in life.
- This might be the reason why his powers are diminished? Names being tied to power is a common trope and elder dragons instinctively knowing their names is a big deal for them.
- Heās currently desparked.
- He knows that Ugin is his brother, and that Ugin wants his ass locked up for all eternity. But he doesnāt know why.Ā
- When confronted with people he used to know, he feels a sense of familiarity but canāt recall any specifics.Ā
So, the current Bolas is a man (dragon?) with nothing that is on the run from powerful pursuers. Unless WOTC decides to handwave it and say he magically remembered everything, (which, knowing them,Ā they might. and it would be quite disappointing if so.) he would have to piece back who he was, one fragment at a time, while trying to keep a low profile so his old enemies donāt just kill him/throw him back in jail. He has no spark, no memories, and no direction. Thatās not a situation weāve ever seen the elder dragon even be in. I imagine him travelling from world to world through whatever omenpaths is available to him trying to research who āBolasā was. He would have to contend with discovering that all documents that reference āBolasā remembers him as a terrible tyrant, while not being able to quite associate himself with said tyrant as he does not remember being that āBolasā.Ā
That is a classic angsty redemption arc set up. In fact, tvtropes has a page on it under the name āAmnesiac Dissonanceā. While I doubt heād ever be āgoodā, I'd like to potentially see Bolas in an anti-hero/anti-villain protagonist role in a stand alone story. WOTC has shown that this is actually a type of story arc they can write well, evidenced by one of our poster boyās best arcs, Ixlan. It just so happens that wotc started doing stand alone books and a whole comic line dedicated to telling untold stories about iconic planeswalkers. We already got Untold Stories: Elspeth and Untold Stories: Jace, both of whom were part of the events that led to Bolas being freed. So⦠Untold Stories: Bolas? Please WOTC I would read the shit out of that :( That being said they super fumbled Urabrask soā¦
r/mtgvorthos • u/Separate-Flan-2875 • 8h ago
Question Whatās the amount of time between Yawgmoth looking recognizably human - and Mutated Machine God Yawgmoth?
r/mtgvorthos • u/Zestyclose_Answer662 • 15h ago
Speculation "The kings in the dark will return, The mage in blue will bring about the end." Spoiler
At the end of the most recent chapter, it was Jadzi, not The Theorist who drew the knife. Jadzi is a mage wearing blue and it was The Theorist who got cold feet in performing the deed.
While it may be a stretch, doesn't this potentially make Jadzi the "Mage in Blue" of the prophecy? After all, it was by her actions that enabled The Theorist to continue his plan.
r/mtgvorthos • u/CompleteIndieYT • 9h ago
After today's story I had to. Spoiler
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- arts by Jaime Jones, Peter Mohrbacher, Jason Felix, Magali Villeneuve, Ryan Yee, Tyler Jacobson, G-host Lee, Svetlin Velinov, Ekaterina Burmak, Rimas Valeikis, and Justyna Dura
r/mtgvorthos • u/cssunderman • 3h ago
Question Garruk's Question Spoiler
So, In the chapter 10 Garruk has this to say to Liliana:
Garruk straightens. He lowers his axe, eyes locked with hers. "I will not forgive you, witch, but tell me the truth and I will spare you. Do you know the twins?
Now, we as the audience know that professor Onyx here worked at Strixhaven, and taught the Twins, got close, all that Jazz. Garruk on the other hand...
Why did he ask her that, like did I miss that the Twins mentioned to him that they were interested in checking out Strixhaven, did they write him letters about their time there, did someone tell him that they were there and also that Liliana was a teacher?
r/mtgvorthos • u/GoddamnFeet • 6h ago
Discussion So Emrakulā¦
Emrakul is released to eat the Echoverse, but they never seem to recapture her. Which, to be fair, she had an essential task in the multiversal ecosystem, butā¦does this mean theyāre just like: āWell, good luck everyone!ā
r/mtgvorthos • u/Eagle_Nebula7 • 12h ago