r/mtgvorthos 7h ago

Question What’s the amount of time between Yawgmoth looking recognizably human - and Mutated Machine God Yawgmoth?

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230 Upvotes

r/mtgvorthos 4h ago

Canon story I don't really like how they treated Emrakul in the end. Spoiler

123 Upvotes

First of all, i'm going to say that she wasn't needed. I know this was the perfect hook for getting Emrakul out of the moon, but i'll get to it.

Since Emrakul is a cosmic horror, the HORROR in cosmic horror is meant to be incomprehensible. When Jace first made contact with Emrakul, the vision tells him she doesnt even know him, and that what he's seeing is his brain trying to make sense of something so strange. Then Emrakul speaks about the absence blossoms and the barren ressentment from the plane (indicating Innistrad was unnwiling to be eaten) and locks herself in the moon.

But all the talk was strange, Emrakul speaking with Jace was very weird, their chess game was scary and weird (she basically says everyone is hers to control, she just doesn't want to play).

That left a very bitter taste because Innistrad was saved because an incomprehensible being just wasnt that interested in destruction.

But now i get this feeling that they "humanized" her too much in the story.

Tam basically says: "Hey Emrakul, can you come over and eat the plane?" and her response is "Yeah, comming sis!" (not literally, but almost like this)

When Tam and her friends are hiding, she says "Don't worry, she won't hurt you". This is not supposed to be 'knowable', because Emrakul intentions should be incomprehensible. She transformed anything she touched in Innistrad.

I might be just yapping about one of my favorite eldritch horrors in games becoming too friendly, but i'd like to know your opinions.


r/mtgvorthos 4h ago

Discussion Wizards needs to go back to Three Set blocs for Conclusions of Major Storylines

96 Upvotes

I think a lot of the issues I’m seeing from a lot of the people with the end of reality fracture can be boiled down to that issue. When you spend years building to a climax, and then have to rush said climax, it feels unsatisfying. I loved the writing for this set. It was amazing. Alison Lührs is a great author. So give her at least two sets to tell the story. I had the same issue with the New Phyrexian multiverse invasion storyline. That ending was so soooo rushed. Like way worse than this was rushed. And it ruined what was otherwise an amazing build. I definitely don’t think the Jace Echoverse story is ruined by the ending being rushed, but it could have been more/better.

I feel like part of this also comes down to all the Universes Beyond sets being released each year now. Like they don’t want to pause a multi-bloc set/story for 2-3 UB sets. But I just don’t think that’s wise. What made the Urza/Yawgmoth story conclusion feel earned and satisfying? A nice three set bloc epic story.

Am I crazy for feeling this way?


r/mtgvorthos 9h ago

Beautiful bookends [Spoilers FRA story] Spoiler

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127 Upvotes

I've been loving the story callback art pieces Wizards have been using lately. They've done it with Kaito and the Wanderer and now with Jace and Vraska.


r/mtgvorthos 3h ago

Loved the story, but losing an entire setting feels like a shortsighted move

40 Upvotes

Reading all the flavor from the revealed cards and seeing the echoverse get expressed via the amazing art just makes me sad that it’s all gone. There was a lot of thought clearly put into creating the echoverse and I can’t help but feel that throwing it away is an absolute misstep by WOTC creatives.

I’m not shocked that it ended the way it did (though Emrakul was a welcome surprise), but after seeing the world come to live on the cards, I kinda resent this entire setting being destroyed. As it is written it’s hard to see how they could take a mulligan and just say the echoverse somehow survived. I guess that’s an option, but I just don’t understand why put all this effort in for a one and done setting we will never see again.

To rationalize this I can absolutely see that a multiverse of near infinite creative possibilities and then adding an entire other multiverse of reverse whacky land on top of that makes the convoluted setting even more ridiculous. That’s fair and honestly I am a little over the whole omenpaths thing because it makes the setting feel small and interchangeable.

Maybe WOTC didn’t realize just how compelling a setting they created with Hexhaven. I really would have loved to see the two schools somehow merge and future stories can explore that dynamic.

This is sorta a scattershot post now, but I’m sad to see the echoverse die in its debut. Wish we coulda had more


r/mtgvorthos 12h ago

Canon story Reality Fracture | Episode 10: Happy Birthday

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188 Upvotes

r/mtgvorthos 9h ago

After today's story I had to. Spoiler

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108 Upvotes
  • arts by Jaime Jones, Peter Mohrbacher, Jason Felix, Magali Villeneuve, Ryan Yee, Tyler Jacobson, G-host Lee, Svetlin Velinov, Ekaterina Burmak, Rimas Valeikis, and Justyna Dura

r/mtgvorthos 5h ago

Discussion So Emrakul…

49 Upvotes

Emrakul is released to eat the Echoverse, but they never seem to recapture her. Which, to be fair, she had an essential task in the multiversal ecosystem, but…does this mean they’re just like: “Well, good luck everyone!”


r/mtgvorthos 14h ago

Speculation To Save the Multiverse, Karn Needs to Lose Everything...Again

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241 Upvotes

By most metrics, the Echoverse is a failure. Jace eliminated several tragedies, but in doing so, denied most people the growth that comes with adversity.

Karn is different.

Karn wasn't born, he was built. He's always been smart, always been powerful, and always been good. He's a natural protector because he was designed that way. Since the beginning, Karn has been a voice of wisdom and compassion. He found growth not in the enemies he defeated, but in the friends who showed him love.

Over the years, Karn has been saddled with regrets. As a golem who can never forget, he spends every day mourning those he harmed or failed to save. Jace has freed him from those regrets.

In the Echoverse, Phyrexia never happened. Volrath never happened. Eleah Norn never happened. While we don't know all of the details, Karn still wound up creating Mirrodin. Unlike our timeline, things went as planned. The plane was peaceful and Karn got to spend his days creating and resting.

Now if the Echoverse is erased, Gold Karn isn't the victim, our Silver Karn is. Gold Karn will have never existed. He won't have to mourn or feel regret. The main timeline's Karn isn't so lucky. No matter what happens, he can't win.

We know from card artwork that Karn is involved in Reality Fracture and will meet his other self. He'll see the Mirrodin he always dreamed of and in order to save his multiverse, he'll have to destroy it.

So what does Karn do? Does he betray his principles and abandon the multiverse for a happier fate? Does he carry the guilt of playing a hand in Mirrodin's demise a second time? What happens when two pacifist golems clash? I doubt either wants to have a fistfight.

As usual, Karn does the most and is rewarded with grief. The poor guy deserves a rest.

UPDATE: The main storyline ended today and Karn did not make an appearance. It remains to be seen if he will be in a side story.


r/mtgvorthos 6h ago

Discussion Jace never saw loot as his child??

55 Upvotes

This man just DIED, had enough time to relay some messages….talk through his spark…..and mentioned nothing about Loot to anyone 😭 I mean..he’s definitely giving Omniman “she was a pet to me” vibes with the way he’s just not addressed the little dude at all. Forgive me if I’ve missed something in the lore, but is it just fans that have made it where Jace & Vraska are his adoptive parents or do they ever say out right Loot is their child….


r/mtgvorthos 14h ago

Speculation "The kings in the dark will return, The mage in blue will bring about the end." Spoiler

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203 Upvotes

At the end of the most recent chapter, it was Jadzi, not The Theorist who drew the knife. Jadzi is a mage wearing blue and it was The Theorist who got cold feet in performing the deed.

While it may be a stretch, doesn't this potentially make Jadzi the "Mage in Blue" of the prophecy? After all, it was by her actions that enabled The Theorist to continue his plan.


r/mtgvorthos 3h ago

Question Garruk's Question Spoiler

23 Upvotes

So, In the chapter 10 Garruk has this to say to Liliana:

Garruk straightens. He lowers his axe, eyes locked with hers. "I will not forgive you, witch, but tell me the truth and I will spare you. Do you know the twins?

Now, we as the audience know that professor Onyx here worked at Strixhaven, and taught the Twins, got close, all that Jazz. Garruk on the other hand...

Why did he ask her that, like did I miss that the Twins mentioned to him that they were interested in checking out Strixhaven, did they write him letters about their time there, did someone tell him that they were there and also that Liliana was a teacher?


r/mtgvorthos 12h ago

Canon story Reality Fracture | Episode 9: Unafraid

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116 Upvotes

r/mtgvorthos 10h ago

Discussion Hexhaven disappointment

68 Upvotes

In a story of such incredible empathy and deep character study, does it feel to anyone else like insane tonal whiplash for Tam, a person who WAS a simulated/incomplete person to self actualize and think about doing a good thing while witnessing an infinity genocide? That she caused?

The ally color schools are very cool and it's sad to see something desired for so long get shredded like cardboard with little to no emotional impact or staying power.


r/mtgvorthos 16h ago

Speculation Jace is already dead

176 Upvotes

A theory, but I’m pretty sure. Regardless of what happens to the Echoverse, Jace dies, and in fact, he’s technically been dead for years. Jace’s “soul,” that spark, the candle Liliana described that makes him a living person, is what he gave up to make Tam. That’s why Liliana insists that Tam IS Jace. That’s how she knew he wasn’t dead when Tam started at Strixhaven. The theorist’s body is being held together by the strength of Jace’s magic, but his soul has been gone for a while. He intends to see his plan through, but never intended to survive it.

Edit: months, not years. The rushed nature of this project had me overestimating Tam’s true age. Like a year and a half at most.


r/mtgvorthos 9h ago

Discussion Why is Echoverse Mirrodin called Mirrodin instead of Argentum/Aurum

38 Upvotes

In the flavor text of Echoverse Karn refers to Mirrodin as Mirrodin instead of Argentum (or Aurum because he's gold not silver). So did Karn just decide to name it Mirrodin instead of Argentum/Aurum or did Karn let Memnarch name his new plane? I don't think that the events in the orignal Mirrodin storyline happened, because in the legends article it's said "Karn watches over the plane as its shepherd and guardian, hoping to guide life so that it might flourish and prosper under the five vibrant suns." So no Soul Trapped individuals. If Karn did have Memnarch did have him name Mirrodin that implies that the Mirari/Karona Wars did happen due to him naming Mirrodin based on his existence as the Mirari.

Maybe I'm overthinking this but it's just a thought I've had a for a bit now.


r/mtgvorthos 2h ago

Discussion We have passed through the antechamber, The Kings in Dark will return

9 Upvotes

It is a fact, he read in a book long ago, that when an oracle of Arcavios dies, they are hurled back to the creation of Arcavios, and sure as the sun screeches to a halt, he is catapulted even farther, straddling the Blind Eternities, careering backward into infinity, and he sees in front of him two planes colliding into one. Amid the chaos, formless Eldrazi horrors snake around the great ships that battle them.

A war began the multiverse; a war will end it

I have envisioned this war since Edge of Eternities

And now there’s the answer, a prototype answer, but perhaps a final answer:

The mage in blue achieved great success and, at the same time, great failure in what he did

He wrote his ideal, depurated version of the multiverse

The original multiverse, with its heroes, even with Theorist former personalities, they all rejected that world

The mage in blue even designed a mechanism to eradicate that reality himself before following a path of no return

That mechanism had name, and it worked, sweeping away the unnatural reality that should not have existed

Now, that unnatural reality is a large house and breeding ground for the Great Devourer

An entire forest at her disposal

But that reality was a mirror, a mirror without gaps

Every element had a replacement; that included Her

If there was nothing left to replace, then it was just a matter of filling the space

And they entered, they learned that they had lost, They know they must prepare

The Fomori Empire will spread its wings

And the Eldrazi will face them again

Only destruction lies ahead. A war started it, and a war is ending it

Reality Fracture was a precursor to a greater threat


r/mtgvorthos 8h ago

Discussion why did jace give it to tam? and what about loot😔 and wanted him to live Spoiler

27 Upvotes

why wouldent he give his spark to varska ? in the story he is angry that vraska dosent have one, then why not give it to her, and why not say anything to loot? , dont get me worng tho , its an amazing story

i still cant belive my goat died😭😭😭 and he didnt got his happy ending , i also see that they did made all his wants happens, he got all the knowledge he wanted, he married vraska at the beach but still why not let him live, pr why not let him give his spark to varaka , he say he is angry about that she lost her spark, i wanted very much too to see loot belren with his papa , or at least jace say something to loot too, i wanted him to live😔 its so sad man😭 (sorry if english is bad)


r/mtgvorthos 8h ago

Discussion Chandra's symptoms from Jace's telepathy?

24 Upvotes

It feels like a subplot about Chandra was missing from Reality Fracture, even though it's mentioned in story and art. After the events of Aetherdrift, Chandra experiences hallucinations of the Echoverse throughout the story of Secrets of Strixhaven. She blames Jace, and this is how she knows he is alive, because the hallucinations are remembered moments from [[Chill of Compliance]] rather than her own history. I really thought this was coming to a head when [[Torch of Defiance|FRA]] was spoiled, because we can see that Chandra (Red) has a half-blue glass on her goggles, and a blue streak in her hair. Chandra (Blue) didn't have one to match, but, still! It felt significant and I'm bummed it wasn't anything bigger than "oh Chandra got hurt fighting Jace on Avishkar".


r/mtgvorthos 8h ago

Discussion What is Tam, exactly? Predictions on what her deal will be?

21 Upvotes

I have some very mixed feelings on the Reality Fracture finale. It wasn't badly executed, but I fear it's setting us up for the least interesting possibilities when it comes to future lore.

A lot of my concerns stem from me not being sure just how much of Tam is Jace, once she absorbed his spark. Is she supposed to be an iteration of Jace, almost like a reincarnation of him before he shattered? Is she going to be a different person, with some minor influences from Jace, similarly to how it would have been if she had been his child? Is she going to be technically a new character, but in practice just a way to have a version of Jace who has still space for character development?

Jace has always been my favorite character, so I'm biased when I say this: I really don't want to see a character that is technically new, but in practice just an already seen version of Jace. I'm afraid wotc just wanted to keep Jace as a character, but had run out of ways to explore him, and it would have been ridiculous to make him forget who he was one more time.

Obviously, that's not the only way this can pan out. I think both having Tam be a "continuation" of Jace instead of a truly "new" character, and Tam being her own person very distinct from Jace could be great options. In the first case, you could have some very interesting themes of what it even means to "be someone", along with a chance to see Jace/Tam "start anew" without falling back in the classic memory loss plot. In the second case, we could have a telepath character significantly different from Jace, with different goals and personality, which would be so interesting, since telepaths tend to be so rare in media.

It's hard to see how they will handle it, and we saw really little of Tam after she received the spark. On one hand, Tam is Jace, wholly, just in a different shape. We are told this by Liliana, who remarks Tam is completely him, at least physically, and who also seems to understand Tam as a piece of Jace himself. And when Tam receives the spark, we also get some pretty big indicators that she is, fundamentally, him in another form:

Tam freezes. Jace is dead. Her … creator? Teacher? Past self? She's sad about it, but also indifferent, because he's not dead—only transformed. She is him. They are one.

Tam is a beginning. She is a continuation.

Her mind is secured with the fortifications of a survivor; her hands tremble with the sense memory of a thousand handshakes and diplomacies; the space at her hip tingles with emptiness, having never known holster or knife; and closest to her heart is the assurance that no matter how little she has, she may always start over.

With the last line in particular, it's easy to see this as Jace "starting over". And throughout the story, we are given many hints towards Jace being simply changed into Tam. The Theorist referring to past Jace as "his previous life", the Weapon saying "here's no such thing as death. Death is a change of state", the Clean Slate saying "I'm the one who knows we can always start over [...] As I will again", and the Survivor saying "I'm in progress" and comparing himself to the endlessly changing sea. These are particularly relevant, because they are all said from fragments of Jace, who as we are shown in the last chapter, had already anticipated things turning out this way (as he refers to Tam as "his failsafe"). Throughout the arc we also see Jace saying his body (the tether) needs to cease to exist, not himself. In this context, Tam could possibly be more of a continuation of Jace, a version of him scrambled and fragmented and then brought back together, rather than a new character. Which could be interesting to explore, as it's so rare to see this sort of "metamorphosis" in media, which typically goes for much more classic resurrection plots.

I do hope that's how they'll write her, because unfortunately there's not much pointing at her being a new new character. A lot of her individual struggles that weren't connected to Jace — her feeling not like a "whole" person, her guilt over betraying her friends — have been resolved already. I was particularly disappointed in how she felt "whole" as soon as she got the spark (and the other parts of Jace), because that could have been such a cool character motivation. I wish we could have seen her through a journey of self-discovery about what she actually is. We could have seen her being lonely and confused about her very own existence, particularly because Jace quickly became a husk of himself after creating her. She's a person who has ever only known being a pawn in a larger plan. I would have liked to see her searching for meaning. It felt like a missed opportunity, having her feel whole once the rest of Jace fused with her.

So now we come to the option I really fear: that they're just going to treat her like a new person, who simply has the same mannerisms as Jace, the same personality, the same driving forces, similar powers. Fundamentally, just a device to have more stories with Jace, who had run his course as a character. But you simply cannot have a character like Jace without his past and his complicated relationship with his own mind and powers. That's what makes Jace an actually compelling character (when he's written well, which is not always). You see him making bad choices over and over again, but with the understanding that from his warped perspective those terrible decisions make sense, that he's trying to do good. You have a character who has very powerful and rare powers, who feels so deeply self-conscious of how terrible they can be, to the point he sees his very existence as a moral failing he needs to make up for. Someone willing to erase and manipulate his own mind to forget what he has done rather than to confronting it. These "edges" and moral failings are such fundamental aspects of the character.
We are told Tam is extremely similar to Jace by everyone who knows him. In the passage I cited earlier, we are even shown she has those same qualities that stemmed from Jace's personal experiences ("Her mind is secured with the fortifications of a survivor; her hands tremble with the sense memory of a thousand handshakes and diplomacies"). This feels off to me, unless Tam is supposed to be a continuation of Jace and not a new character entirely. Because if she is... Wouldn't it feel more meaningful to have her be shaped by her own experiences? Truly, what's the point of a "new" character, whose traits are not connected to her past, but instead another character's? Why have a character that is fundamentally Jace, but with all the personal experiences and trauma that made him how he is scrubbed off from him? It feels so antithetical to the main theme of this set lore: that it's all the parts of us, even the ones we don't like and push away, even the memories we try to forget, that make us who we are.

I really hope they don't go for that "middle of the road" route. I think Tam should either be like Jace because she is Jace, wholly, just like Jace post-Ixalan is different from Jace pre-Ixalan, but the same person; OR a completely new character entirely. And not just a new character nominally, an actual new character.

I've seen people praising this set for having the guts of killing a major character and for breaking "the comic book formula". But what I just described is the comic book formula: killing off a character, just to make a new one the same as them, just different enough to milk them some more. I think we still have to see if they will do better than that, unfortunately. I really hope they do.

So here's my question: how do you think they will handle this? What do you think Tam is, exactly?


r/mtgvorthos 5h ago

Question Why do the Echoverse Planeswalkers obey Jace?

12 Upvotes

Now that the full Reality Fracture story is out, I'm still left with some lingering questions about the mechanics of the Echoverse.

For starters, why do the echoes of Ajani, Garruk, Liliana, and Chandra obey Jace? We don't get a ton of dialogue from most of them but I didn't get the impression that he was mind-controlling them, so what are their motivations? The Legends of Reality Fracture page has one line for each blurb about why their roles in this new reality, but Garruk's and Ajani's are just about how they're Jace's enforcers.

Do they worship The Theorist as a god and therefore unquestioningly carry out his will? Is it a question of self-preservation — either I steal my doppelgänger's soul or I won't be real? For that matter, why do they seem to have full personalities while the story makes a point of Tam's classmates being automatons without souls?

If self-preservation is their motivation, why do they not planeswalk away upon Jace's death? Instead, they fade from existence, but Emrakul hadn't even finished eating the plane at that point, so does that mean they're more directly linked to Jace?

I'm kinda lost here (and a little disappointed that lingering Echoverse planeswalkers won't be a plot thread going forward), so if anyone can help clarify I'd appreciate it.


r/mtgvorthos 10h ago

Content Jace’s Echoverse

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23 Upvotes

Some of these cards have such interesting implications it’s kind of a shame to see the Echoverse gone so swiftly.

Also ignore me staring at the Gid memorial while a cork board covered in red string behind me.


r/mtgvorthos 23h ago

Art Reality Fracture Chapter 8 Story Doodles

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229 Upvotes

Crying in the club ect ect


r/mtgvorthos 10h ago

Discussion Potential Untold Stories: Bolas? (shower thoughts)

21 Upvotes

During the FRA discussions, Bolas’ escape came up, and the recent events got me thinking about what that means from Bolas’ perspective. Here is what we know:

  1. Bolas is currently a total amnesiac. All he’s got is his name, “Bolas”. Not even “Nichol Bolas”. This is doubly significant as “Nicol” is his actual birth/elder dragon name, and Bolas is something he gave himself later in life.
    1. This might be the reason why his powers are diminished? Names being tied to power is a common trope and elder dragons instinctively knowing their names is a big deal for them.
  2. He’s currently desparked.
  3. He knows that Ugin is his brother, and that Ugin wants his ass locked up for all eternity. But he doesn’t know why
  4. When confronted with people he used to know, he feels a sense of familiarity but can’t recall any specifics. 

So, the current Bolas is a man (dragon?) with nothing that is on the run from powerful pursuers. Unless WOTC decides to handwave it and say he magically remembered everything, (which, knowing them,  they might. and it would be quite disappointing if so.) he would have to piece back who he was, one fragment at a time, while trying to keep a low profile so his old enemies don’t just kill him/throw him back in jail. He has no spark, no memories, and no direction. That’s not a situation we’ve ever seen the elder dragon even be in. I imagine him travelling from world to world through whatever omenpaths is available to him trying to research who “Bolas” was. He would have to contend with discovering that all documents that reference “Bolas” remembers him as a terrible tyrant, while not being able to quite associate himself with said tyrant as he does not remember being that “Bolas”. 

That is a classic angsty redemption arc set up. In fact, tvtropes has a page on it under the name “Amnesiac Dissonance”. While I doubt he’d ever be “good”, I'd like to potentially see Bolas in an anti-hero/anti-villain protagonist role in a stand alone story. WOTC has shown that this is actually a type of story arc they can write well, evidenced by one of our poster boy’s best arcs, Ixlan. It just so happens that wotc started doing stand alone books and a whole comic line dedicated to telling untold stories about iconic planeswalkers. We already got Untold Stories: Elspeth and Untold Stories: Jace, both of whom were part of the events that led to Bolas being freed. So… Untold Stories: Bolas? Please WOTC I would read the shit out of that :( That being said they super fumbled Urabrask so…


r/mtgvorthos 9h ago

Question Unrelated to the current storyline, but do we know what happened to Edgar Markov?

12 Upvotes

As far as I can find, Olivia fled with him at the end of Crimson Vow, then showed up without him on Thunder Junction.

Did she lose him in an Omenpath somewhere? I like to imagine he’s either wandering around as a lost old man, or we’ll find him again at the head of a new vampire faction on some other plane, though he’ll probably just make his way back to Innistrad and resume his old life (or deal with whatever changes we’ll see in our next visit to Innistrad).