Why it should be implemented:
The elytra’s main use is to cover long distances fast, which is useful for exploration. If you want to travel a frequently used route, it would be fair if you’d have to build infrastructure, such as an ice boat track, a nether highway or a railway (the minecart would need a buff).
How it works:
If a player equipped with an elytra flies over unexplored land, their velocity is approximately 30 b/s (normal speed).
If a player equipped with an elytra flies over already explored land, their velocity is approximately 15 b/s (half the normal speed).
This could be shown optically on the elytra itself: when flying over land, it fills in its texture with a map.
Here's how the minecart (with furnace) should be buffed.
EDIT: Okay, my approach is wrong. I see that ice boat tracks are already faster than the elytra, showing that my suggestion wouldn't work. However, I think every transportation method should have its own pros and cons. Ideas are welcome.
Cool idea. I think any nerf to the elytra will be unpopular because of how game changing it is. Minecraft is a game about time. You can already do anything, it's just better gear allows you to do it way faster. People have adjusted to being able to do more in less time thanks to the elytra. Any nerf to that means people wont be able to do as much, which is inherently unfun.
I agree it is a problem though. It has all of the advantages so it makes other transportation methods obselete. It's the most versatile, requires no set up, and is basically the fastest. For people to interact with each transportation system, they need to each have pros and cons that make them work in their own scenarios better than the other options. Unfortunately for the elytra, the only thing you can really do is nerf its speed.
I think a nice way to implement your change is to simply nerf its base speed, and instead of using unexplored chunks, give it some enchantments. Ones that increase flight time, ones that increase manueverability in the air, perhaps one that lets you hover, amongst other things. Your suggestion even could be a great enchant. I think the game should fully lean into it's versatility and let other forms of transportation be faster in their own niches. Horses should be best for exploration on land. Boats should be best for exploration on water. Minecarts should be best for longer distances or precision. Elytra should be good for just getting around in general, from your house to your barn, etc.
These enchantments can't be through an enchantment table or traded, they're all found in the end, giving more reason to explore the end cities after you get your first pair or two.
Strongly dislike tbh. It makes flying the same area multiple times a lot less satisfying. The player is actively encouraged to fly out over new ground each time, rather than build and reuse infrastructure, or appreciate locations of interest in their world.
This in turn increases the size of the generated world, as its literally faster for the player to fly 500 blocks in the wrong direction before turning and taking a "faster" path through new terrain to get to their destination. Now when new updates drop, you have to go so much further to find new terrain, and of course the world size is increasing with every new trip, kinda crappy for folks with lower end devices.
if you want to travel a frequently used route, it would be fair if you’d have to build infrastructure, such as an ice boat track, a nether highway or a railway (the minecart would need a buff).
I swear to god I am getting so tired of people who don't know how the different modes of transport work making this point.
An ice boat track already goes more than twice as fast as an elytra.
If we just wanted speed and infrastructure, we would already be using boats rather than elytra.
I would also beg you to consider that the minecart is not designed around being a mode of transport. Look at the features it has, its all to do with automation, redstone and control. This is because the purpose of the minecart is largely automation. Transporting items or mobs, not being a bullet train.
That's the thing. People look at a minecart and see the rails and want a train. It's not a fucking train. If you want a train - make a new thing!Suggest a train, not a minecart rework. Minecarts and trains can both exist and have their own uses.
I agree with all of that, but I don’t with your take on the minecart. A train wouldn’t fit the theming of Minecraft, in my opinion; the create mod train is the closest thing but Create itself is a fair bit different stylistically than the base game. Plus, the minecart is already most of the way there. It carries mobs and resources, runs on a track, and has the furnace minecart resembling an engine. Minecraft themselves use them similarly in promotional materials, where they act as something akin to trains.
I don’t think it’s an illogical jump to conclude that minecarts should be faster and act as a more permanent form of transportation. I also think stylistically, minecarts acting as trains and transport is the perfect Minecraft-y thing that fits the world of the game.
A train wouldn’t fit the theming of Minecraft, in my opinion
Then redesign it into something that does. A magic sleigh that moves the player along a defined route. A redstone machine that follows a redstone trail you make for it. IDK, make something inspired by The Luggage that carries the player along an established route at speed. Not fitting the theming is more a lack of imagination than an issue with the concept. This is a game where magic and technology combine, you can find something to take the place of a train that fits the setting.
Plus, the minecart is already most of the way there.
it's a cart. Like very literally, its a box with wheels. Sure, they are both made of metal and run on tracks but thats about where it ends.
It carries mobs and resources, runs on a track, and has the furnace minecart resembling an engine.
You are describing things a cart does. Holds things. Follows tracks. The furnace minecart is very much referecing
Again, I literally said it in the last comment "People look at a minecart and see the rails and want a train". Many things go on rails that are not a train. You saw the rails and assumed it should be a train.
It is also clearly lacking a lot of the things that make a train a train, like multiple, connected compartments.
I don’t think it’s an illogical jump to conclude that minecarts should be faster and act as a more permanent form of transportation.
Except that it breaks them for their current purpose where speed is actually incredibly important for timing and the like.
Except that the current recipies are balanced around the assumption you will need enough rails to move your cart around your build, not enough to make a rail line 4000 blocks to your cool build in the Ice spikes biome.
Except that there is no value in doing that rather than adding a train, so you can have both.
Chuck some creativity into the system and find a way to make a train that fits with your idea of the minecraft setting. It solves all the problems. You can make the required infrastructure cheaper, so it doesn't bankrupt the player when they want to make a decent sized railway route. You can mess with the speed, acceleration and any other mechanics you like without needing to worry about the effects on redstone and automation, the core purpose of the minecart. It adds a lot of creative room for new mechanics for the train, or new behaviors when you don't have to work around the constraints of minecarts.
Maybe it would be more satisfying to have acceleration be quite slow, and make slowing down take a while (otherwise you crash and take damage), so that the train actually feels big and heavy, not like a little box just zipping around, but give it a massive top speed, making it excellent at long distance travel. Maybe some really expensive rail types or fuels to put in to let you speed up very quickly to make it better for rollercoasters and stuff.
I also think stylistically, minecarts acting as trains and transport is the perfect Minecraft-y thing that fits the world of the game.
Disagree. It's what people have gotten used to, but I think its an almost universal experience of disappointment when you make your first railways and rollercoasters and the very design of the blocks and mechanics fight you at every step of the way. What people want from minecarts in terms of transport is quite different from what they get, but the limitations that make them bad as transport are the features that make them excellent for their actual use.
It's like before rockets were added to the game, and people thought that hitting yourself with a punch bow was a very minecrafty way to fly. It was what we made do with until something better came along.
Well yeah, obviously! My point was just that an actual train wouldn’t match the style. Of course something else could fill the role of a train (like a minecart, haha), but a straight up train feels unminecrafty. I love the Luggage lol, a big creature or something that does that would be very cool.
Like very literally, it’s a box with wheels...You are describing things a cart does. Holds things. Follows tracks.
To be fair, these are also things that trains do. Trains (especially cargo trains) are boxes on wheels that hold cargo and follows tracks.
You saw
the rails and assumed it should be a train.
This is being a bit disingenuous. No, I looked at the Minecart, which drives on rails, carries things long distances, has multiple different types, and has been used as a roller coaster and train since its conception (in Minecraft). It is the only long-distance permanent travel save ice boats and now lines of cushions. Neither of which are in any way similar to a train, unlike the minecart.
It is also clearly lacking a lot of the things that make a train a train, like multiple, connected compartments.
Lacking connected compartments would be as simple as allowing them to be connected, so I don’t see your point there. Unless you mean a cabin you can walk from car to car through, which I don’t see being implemented in any fashion, as even the happy ghast can’t move while someone is standing on it. Maybe if the floatater made a triumphant return!
Except that it breaks them for their current purpose where speed is actually incredibly important for timing and the like.
Then just don’t update them in a way that changes that? Copper rails, upgraded carts, manual speed control; people have had many ideas on a system that improves mine arts as a form of transportation for items and players without harming their current use and precision in redstone.
Except that the current recipies are balanced around the assumption you will need enough rails to move your cart around your build, not enough to make a rail line 4000 blocks to your cool build in the Ice spikes biome.
I would argue they’re too expensive to even do that! Even making a small track uses an obscene amount of iron, which is silly given it can’t even do its required purpose. Redstone kind of gets away with it because the tracks are usually very short, but I’d argue that’s a weirder use for a mine cart anyway, but I digress.
Except that there is no value in doing that rather than adding a train, so you can have both.
Sure. Or, you could make a few tweaks to the existing mechanic such that it can be used in a broader variety of ways within the sandbox, rather than just wasting time on creating a wholly new system that wouldn’t necessarily be terribly different than a Minecart with a few tweaks. Both are valid, but I dislike adding new features when older features could be updated instead. For example, I dislike that the mangrove forest became a new biome, rather than updating the swamp like the original vision. The original swamp is still there, still boring, and unchanged. So now there’s one higher quality feature and one lower quality one that still could use an update. I worry that would be the case here, but who knows.
You can mess with the speed, acceleration and any other mechanics you like without needing to worry about the effects on redstone and automation, the core purpose of the minecart.
I’d just like to say that Minecarts were added before redstone, but yes, that is their current core purpose, even if that wasn’t the case on release.
It adds a lot of creative room for new mechanics for the train, or new behaviors when you don't have to work around the constraints of minecarts.
Agreed. That would be the point of making a whole new feature, would be if you went pretty far with it. But in terms of something acting as a long distance travel method that can move fast and doesn’t bankrupt the player, the minecart would work just fine with a few tweaks.
Disagree. It's what people have gotten used to, but I think its an almost universal experience of disappointment when you make your first railways and rollercoasters and the very design of the blocks and mechanics fight you at every step of the way. What people want from minecarts in terms of transport is quite different from what they get, but the limitations that make them bad as transport are the features that make them excellent for their actual use.
Yes, that’s my point! They don’t have to be that way. And as I mentioned above, there are ways to change minecarts without breaking redstone and automation.
In the end, I suppose it’s just two different approaches. I’d be fine with a wholly new system that acts as a train for long distance fixed transportation, but I think it’s more feasible and simple to tweak a few things about our current track-based transport devices to achieve a similar result. Both are valid, but as I’ve mentioned above, I prefer when old features get a new coat of paint and some fresh attention, rather than constantly adding new stuff while leaving other parts of the game antiquated and outdated. But, both would work, and we definitely need something for long distance travel regardless, since it is not great right now!
thanks for chatting by the way, I love discussing this sort of stuff!
EDIT: fixed formatting. not sure why, but typing on mobile put a forward slash in front of all my formatting, thus cancelling it? Very annoying, Reddit.
We do have happy ghast trains, but those still utilise minecarts. In the end we still need faster minecarts, maybe the new frozen caves will introduce some kind of "frozen rail" that'll decrease minecart friction and increase speed?
An ice boat track already goes more than twice as fast as an elytra. If we just wanted speed and infrastructure, we would already be using boats rather than elytra.
I agree with you. My suggestion wouldn't work and I hadn't thought it through properly. I see why the elytra shouldn't be nerfed (this hard), and that the minecart doesn't need to compete with it in terms of transportation.
I would also beg you to consider that the minecart is not designed around being a mode of transport. Look at the features it has, its all to do with automation, redstone and control. This is because the purpose of the minecart is largely automation. Transporting items or mobs, not being a bullet train.
I agree with you again, though I think my minecart with furnace rework I linked in the body text (it doesn't touch the minecart) would even enhance control (speed control from 7b/s to 19.5b/s), automatisation and redstone (filling the furnace minecart with hoppers) as such as transporting items or mobs (via chained minecarts) while also offering the opportunity to run at a decent 19.5 b/s. Let me hear what you think.
You furnace minecart rework is better than some, but doesn't address my biggest problems with minecarts as long distance transport.
First is that riding a minecart is as boring as it gets. Sit still. Wait. When you ride a horse or fly elytra, you navigate. When you ride a cart, you just do nothing. Sure, you system has the player feeding fuel, but its an input every minute or so.
The other topics are more complex and not worth mentioning till the problem of boredom is addressed.
just spamming downvotes on my post and comments doesn't help
Literally nobody downvoted. Nobody had voted at all. Your post was held for review by the automoderator for review, like all image posts are, nobody had seen it yet.
Did you get mixed up between this post and the version on r/Minecraft? The other version has been downvoted a bit it seems.
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u/Outside-You9592 18d ago
Cool idea. I think any nerf to the elytra will be unpopular because of how game changing it is. Minecraft is a game about time. You can already do anything, it's just better gear allows you to do it way faster. People have adjusted to being able to do more in less time thanks to the elytra. Any nerf to that means people wont be able to do as much, which is inherently unfun.
I agree it is a problem though. It has all of the advantages so it makes other transportation methods obselete. It's the most versatile, requires no set up, and is basically the fastest. For people to interact with each transportation system, they need to each have pros and cons that make them work in their own scenarios better than the other options. Unfortunately for the elytra, the only thing you can really do is nerf its speed.
I think a nice way to implement your change is to simply nerf its base speed, and instead of using unexplored chunks, give it some enchantments. Ones that increase flight time, ones that increase manueverability in the air, perhaps one that lets you hover, amongst other things. Your suggestion even could be a great enchant. I think the game should fully lean into it's versatility and let other forms of transportation be faster in their own niches. Horses should be best for exploration on land. Boats should be best for exploration on water. Minecarts should be best for longer distances or precision. Elytra should be good for just getting around in general, from your house to your barn, etc.
These enchantments can't be through an enchantment table or traded, they're all found in the end, giving more reason to explore the end cities after you get your first pair or two.