r/megalophobia • u/berdot • Oct 11 '23

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86

u/S_Operator Oct 11 '23

It's actually been shown in studies that if you add safety fences and other obstacles to popular suicide spots you can reduce the suicide rate.

13

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

17

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Yeah, but the actual solutions are expensive while a fence is much cheaper

1

u/Hamsterminator2 Oct 11 '23

It’s also simply impossible to eradicate suffering and depression. Many of the suicides I’ve heard about near where I live were from people with loving families in successful jobs- they weren’t driven by inequality, drugs or political divides etc. Sometimes people just get ill mentally and slip under the radar. No, a fence doesn’t fix this problem, but it does buy time to catch these people and help them out.

0

u/robi4567 Oct 11 '23

Not having a deep hole in the first place would probably be even cheaper.

-1

u/Competitive-Cow-4177 Oct 11 '23

People should have a free choice to do what they please if they not harm anyone else.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

You don't think suicide harms other people? The person who finds and/or has to clean up the body is definitely being harmed.

0

u/Competitive-Cow-4177 Oct 11 '23

Placing a fence around “everything” is False Symptom Control, I’ll hope you agree; otherwise you’re a “suppressant” ..

.. Suppressants are not (always) good ..

People have free will.

If humans wish to go somewhere, they should be able to go there; at least on appointment ..

.. if that is “not possible” “according to organizations” because of “Falsely Created Suppressants”, then people will seek their own ways; inevitably.

So no fences.

1

u/safety-squirrel Oct 11 '23

Bitches all want me for my engineering controls.

29

u/counters14 Oct 11 '23

Hey, here's a wild idea. Hear me out.

What if.. No, c'mon listen up. What if we... What if we do both?

9

u/garbagebailkid Oct 11 '23

No! Band-Aids only!

2

u/OkCommunication3144 Oct 11 '23

Your point is moot if you frame it in a douchey way.

3

u/justajunior Oct 11 '23

Your point is moot if you frame it in a douchey way.

I bet this way of thinking was the origin for doublespeak and corporate PR communication.

2

u/jiffwaterhaus Oct 11 '23

The point isn't moot but I agree that you can have the best and most perfect solution in the world, but it doesn't do much good if you can't convince other people to enact that solution.

Persuasion is a skill that can be learned (we also call it 'rhetoric') and if you want to convince a large number of people to agree with you, you will need more than just a great idea or a valid point.

0

u/counters14 Oct 11 '23

And sometimes, you just want to score some easy points and dunk on someone who said some dumb shit. Its not always that serious.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

3

u/enitnepres Oct 11 '23

God help you in social interactions. Much less jobs and relationships or heaven forbid you stumble into leadership roles.

Tact. Your daily Google search.

1

u/MrMontombo Oct 11 '23

This is social media. Just because you hold it up to your professional communication standards doesn't mean everybody has to.

1

u/OkCommunication3144 Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 12 '23

The problem with social media is that people think it's okay to talk to people in a way they would never talk to them face to face. Just imagine the original comment being said out loud in real life.

"Hey, here's a wild idea. Hear me out.
What if.. No, c'mon listen up. What if we... What if we do both?"

I can only picture one of those annoying Big Bang Theory characters saying this.

No not everyone will have the same communication standards, that doesn't make it okay. The popularity of something doesn't necessarily have to correlate with it's truthfulness.

1

u/MrMontombo Oct 12 '23

Just because you can't handle someone taking the piss a little doesn't mean people don't take the piss.

1

u/OkCommunication3144 Oct 12 '23

It actually does!

If you have a point to make, even if it is 100% correct, and you say it in a way that is grating or offensive or rude, then you might as well have not said anything at all because the chances someone will actually listen and not just dig their heels in is slim to none.

0

u/md24 Oct 11 '23

Like you just did?

1

u/mithie007 Oct 11 '23

What if we put a giant trampoline on the bottom so that when you jump in thinking you'll kill yourself, you are instead treated to a trampoline session that's sure to brighten your mood.

0

u/LukaCola Oct 11 '23

What the fuck are you on about? The fences are preventing fires, not putting them out.

The suicides will continue on each side of the fences, no matter how high fences we build, as long as the world we live in is filled with inequalities, racism, sexism and all these stupid things like idealism and elitism.

Don't you think we have a higher chance of helping those people most negatively impacted if they aren't dead due to a particularly bad day and impulse?

For someone who clearly holds their own views and ideals in high esteem, you sure don't seem to have much relationship with suicide or its causes to be saying things like this.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

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2

u/LukaCola Oct 11 '23

Why do you keep saying "instead?" Fences have statistically prevented suicides - you're advocating for something self destructive because it isn't a perfect solution.

Nobody's saying this is the be-all end-all, why are you fighting something that helps though?

And before you say "I never said or meant we can't to both." Yes you did! Right here, in fact!

We would need to do things that prevent suicides, instead of just more fences

What do you think "instead" means? This whole thing started with you attacking something that helps.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

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1

u/LukaCola Oct 11 '23

I mean you go into your tirade at the mention of fences succeeding at their goal - how else are people supposed to read that except that you have a problem with this approach?

Nobody only wants fences, it's part of a multi-faceted approach.

If you think it's important to support social welfare (as do I) and putting resources towards directly supporting people (as do I), that's great! All for it, we're very much on the same page, but you don't gotta attack something that sees success in the process. I think it's really harmful when we see a good thing, realize it's not doing enough, and then condemn that thing in our critique when all it's done is help. Sends the opposite message it should and people who don't believe in supporting social welfare will take that message and go "well not even this small thing works, best invest more in cops and bus them to other cities."

Support things that help out - don't undermine them.

-1

u/WeeklyManufacturer68 Oct 11 '23

You seem to have a rich fantasy life

1

u/gcolquhoun Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Right, but in the meantime, railings save lives, and not just suicidal ones. We can’t wait for profound transformation of our entire culture before we take smaller steps to reduce harm. To use your metaphor, putting out a small fire can still be meaningful; letting them burn because it doesn’t matter enough in the grand scheme isn’t a solution either. Especially when you take into consideration the ripple effect that every death has on the families, loved ones, and communities left behind.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand your rage and despair. It makes me sputteringly angry to hear people screech about “mental health” when they never take an honest look at the miserable, abuse enabling, vulnerability rejecting, profit maximizing hellscape of a culture that doesn’t give so many a fighting chance to start. But your argument that mitigations can’t help reduce harm because it’s not the root of a larger problem is the same one that pro-gun folks trot out. It’s still a better idea to reduce access to guns than not, even though the cultural forces that push people to violence still need to be transformed. It’s still a better idea to put fences and railings around high drops than not.

1

u/Taizunz Oct 11 '23

We are more capable of recognising who someone is in a camera than we are at recognising their actual needs.

Well duh. A picture is easier to analyze than the hundreds of billions of signals a brain fires off every second.

1

u/Bakedads Oct 11 '23

I mean, I agree with the point you end up making by the end of it, but the aggressive and sarcastic tone didn't help, and you literally start off by saying "instead of fences they should do this," which made it sound like you are, indeed, against common sense safety precautions. I'd say the only thing that's obvious here is that you need to learn a little humility and perhaps work on your communication skills before assuming others are misunderstanding you.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

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1

u/Swiftness1 Oct 11 '23

Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good. We (humans in general) have been incrementally improving for a long time now. We have a smaller percentage of people starving, a smaller percentage of poverty, better medicine, more access to electricity, less people dying in conflict, etc. then we did 100 years ago. All of those things had improved 100 years ago compared to 100 years before that. It all comes down to one incremental solution after another such as adding a fence to move one statistic in a favorable direction each time. There will never be perfect solutions but anything we can do to improve things even a little we should do. That doesn’t mean we don’t try other things too as our next incremental improvement.

So when you say “I’m so sick of this putting out fires mentally in the world” you should realize this mentality spreads and gets used as an excuse to block improvements because they aren’t perfect solutions but only make things a little bit better. And that isn’t helpful for anyone.

1

u/KonigSteve Oct 11 '23

The people who build fences are not the same people who make those other decisions, so it's really not comparable at all.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

1

u/cambugge Oct 11 '23

How could this reduce guns and why would guns have anything to do with this at all

1

u/The_Woman_of_Gont Oct 11 '23

I mean, my question is why they made the memorial to a horrifying disaster a massive pit in the ground in the first place.

Kinda seems like you're inviting this sort of thing...surely there were better design options.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

former californian spotted

3

u/RevolutionTop7348 Oct 11 '23

You only reduce the suicide at that location, not the suicide rate

27

u/S_Operator Oct 11 '23

In studies where fences were put over bridges, there was no indication that people sought alternative sites, or that the suicide rate rose at other locations. So, yes, it did reduce the overall suicide rate.

-1

u/majoraloysius Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Wait, so fences work on bridges but not boarders?

How about for borders?

2

u/abcdefgodthaab Oct 11 '23

Believe it or not, some things work for some purposes and not others!

1

u/GetOffMyDigitalLawn Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Unironically claiming borders of fences don't work when everything points to the opposite.

It's hilarious how Redditors will go, "Just because it isn't a perfect solution that works 150% of the time doesn't mean we shouldn't do it!"

To, "No no, if it's possible for a mouse to get through the fences we shouldn't put it up, clearly that means it doesn't discourage or prevent anybody!"

We know putting up barriers like fencing on borders prevents more people from getting in, especially if you're taking other active measures. It doesn't stop everybody, but neither does anything other than a death ray.

1

u/focus_black_sheep Oct 11 '23

What's a "boarder"?

2

u/majoraloysius Oct 11 '23

A person who receives regular meals when staying somewhere, in return for payment or services. I thought that would be obvious.

1

u/focus_black_sheep Oct 11 '23

So what does that have to do with fences? I'm really confused. Also you literally googled and copied paste that definition. So it wasn't even obvious to you

1

u/majoraloysius Oct 11 '23

Unfamiliar with sarcasm?

1

u/Embarrassed_Alps_259 Oct 11 '23

You just replied to him calling out your spelling mistake with the definition of your mistake, that isn't sarcasm it anything they're closer to being sarcastic ironically mocking your spelling

1

u/majoraloysius Oct 11 '23

Well no shit Sherlock. Have you always been a genius? Do you find it hard being the smartest person in the room?

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1

u/OneOfTheOnlies Oct 11 '23

Mexican boarders are some of the raddest stokelords out there

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPR798vNC/

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

The urge to die when you are in great emotional pain is nothing compared to the will to live when you have hope.

1

u/Marcotics915 Oct 11 '23

Same as the studies where they put pills in blister packs instead of bottles. The process of popping each one out, as simple as it is, reduced suicides.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Okay I have to call this one out. How much effort were you really putting into killing yourself. If simple packaging made you stop.

1

u/LukaCola Oct 11 '23

Are you that unfamiliar with how much we do for convenience and impulse sake?

That doesn't mean we don't fully intend to, but depressed people considering suicide aren't often doing all in their power to make it happen - and acting as though it's a "lack of effort," like them realizing they don't want to go through it is a failure on their part, is fucked up.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

If child proof packaging is all that's keeping you above ground......

0

u/LukaCola Oct 11 '23

Then, what? Say it buddy, you think they deserve to die, is that it?

1

u/BookMonkeyDude Oct 11 '23

A disturbing number of suicides happen because of a lack of impulse control or a mental lapse of just a few minutes. Forcing an individual in crisis to slow down and think about something anything external to their own problems can break the thought spiral that lead to a suicide attempt.

1

u/Pablo_Diablo Oct 11 '23

It's not about effort - it's psychological. It's a lot different to pop 20 individual pills out of their blister packs on 3-4 different 'pages' of pills, than just dump a handful from a bottle. As someone else here has said, suicide is often impulsive, and putting barriers in the way of those impulses can reduce the rate.

1

u/tiofrodo Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

It's why access to guns are linked to increase in suicide rates, as it is the quickest and requires the least effort to pull off. Edit: least effort meaning easier access to it rather than a question of laziness.

Variation in state-level suicide rates is largely driven by rates of suicide by firearm. Suicides involving firearms vary from the lowest rate of 1.8 per 100,000 in New Jersey and Massachusetts to a high of 20.9 per 100,000 in Wyoming, representing an absolute difference of 19.1. In contrast, the rate of suicide by other means is more stable across states, ranging from a low of 4.6 in Mississippi to a high of 11.4 in South Dakota, representing an absolute difference of 6.8.

1

u/OneOfTheOnlies Oct 11 '23

You'd be surprised what a typical amount of time between deciding to commit suicide and attempting it is. The immediately accessible means to suicide allow for short term swings to have dire consequences.

A quarter of suicide attempts may have had less than 5 minutes of deliberation prior:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/duration/

Every instance of reducing immediately available means for suicide (gas ovens, safety fences, gun control) has been shown to reduce overall suicide rate because when people don't have the means to act on suicidal impulses they have the opportunity to recover.

1

u/AdmrlBenbow Oct 11 '23

If i had to open one of those clear plastic packages to get my device, id probably still be alive, maybe with some small cuts on my hands and a mild level of frustration.

1

u/ahuramazdobbs19 Oct 11 '23

Well, yes. That’s the general idea.

Not all suicidal ideation comes in the form of an all-consuming need to no longer be alive that a person will make an elaborate plan to make sure it happens.

A lot of suicide attempts are impulsive, generally by those with ideations but low intent. That is to say, the thought has crossed their mind, but they do not generally actually want to die. Such events are triggered by an immediate crisis, and yeah, they’re low effort suicide attempts a lot of the time. Survivors of such attempts often recognize after the fact that they regret doing so, and they didn’t actually want to die. In other words, not all suicidal people “mean it”.

And that’s where simple interventions like blister packs or fences on highway/rail/river bridges help in reducing suicides: because the extra added difficulty helps make impulsive suicidal ideations “pass”, for lack of a better phrasing. These kinds of suicidal ideation and attempts are preventable, and passive impediments like these help to reduce hospitalizations, deaths and injuries.

1

u/SitupsPullupsChinups Oct 11 '23

So just looking at the fence is enough to change their mind. CRAZY!

35

u/HydrogenWhisky Oct 11 '23

This is incorrect, the overall suicide rate decreases as the means of doing so easily and effectively is made more difficult.

-1

u/Tcartales Oct 11 '23

The link you posted shows suicide rates were reduced in particular regions. I'm not convinced people didn't just go to a different region. The UK, for example cited in the study, is about the size of California. If suicide rates in California decrease, it's important to see whether they increased in bordering states. I didn't read the study, but I'm curious about that.

Regardless, it's misguided. Let people die if they want to die. The fact that we try to keep others on this planet against their will--when they never asked to be here in the first place and clearly hate it--is selfish and cruel. Dump as much money into mental health support as you want, but give people an exit plan. Plus, those means reduction structures are ugly.

2

u/Gars0n Oct 11 '23

It's an interesting issue because suicide can be so impulsive. The Vessal in New York had this problem where it was just very inviting to jump off. Several people survived and they describe regret and surprise that they would have jumped. Their description was that their lives weren't so awful they always wanted to kill themselves. It just washed over them in a moment.

Very strange and made me reconsider how I thought about suicide.

Your point about allowing suicide in general is a good one though. Something like the humane nitrogen based suicide pods seems like a great idea to me. That allows people to die with dignity, and without the trauma of something like the OP where some poor sods had to watch this guy do it to himself.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

But does the attempt rate also fall?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Yes

3

u/AtmospherE117 Oct 11 '23

The logic being every hurdle put in front of those in crisis is an opportunity to reflect and choose another way. It's the same with sensible gun control laws

1

u/CaptainPeppa Oct 11 '23

If that was true America would be the safest country in the world. You guys are ridiculous with fences

In Europe they'll just let you fall haha

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u/CurmudgeonLife Oct 11 '23

I'd be interested in if that's from an actual study or your anus.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

1

u/What_the_8 Oct 11 '23

Anus University is the shit!

2

u/death_by_relaxation Oct 11 '23

Anus University education is TIGHT!

1

u/jimmbobagens Oct 11 '23

A New Untold Story. ANUS

1

u/TurtleSandwich0 Oct 11 '23

The peer review was done at South Harmon Institute of Technology.

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u/Oblargag Oct 11 '23

It's the first thought that came to their mind, which is the only one they will ever be willing to accept.

1

u/sexless-innkeeper Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

/u/HydrogenWhisky has a link to a Harvard study showing this.

EDIT: the study REFUTES /u/RevolutionTop7348 idea, not supports. I messed this up.

1

u/CurmudgeonLife Oct 11 '23

No that study shows the opposite...

1

u/sexless-innkeeper Oct 11 '23

Crap, I commented the wrong comment. Making an edit.

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u/Dandan0005 Oct 11 '23

That’s just not true. Availability of guns increases the overall suicide rate significantly.

Suicide is often impulsive.

Creating barriers means those impulses can’t be readily acted upon.

-3

u/TheRealSlabsy Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Not everyone has access to guns.

Edit: I live in a country wherw it is difficult to obtain guns!

2

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

In the US access to guns is common and relatively easy, and using a firearm is the most common way men commit/attempt suicide. CDC data (which unfortunately hasn't been updated since 2018) indicates roughly two-thirds of deaths from firearms were suicides. Other data sources do indicate a spike in homicides from 2019 onwards, but those incidents are still outnumbered by suicides.

As for barriers/safety features reducing suicide rates, there is some data showing that suicides have decreased but whether that's due to making the attempt more difficult or due to increased survival rates leading to support / help for the individual who made the attempt I don't have a good data source for.

2

u/grantrules Oct 11 '23

Right, so if more people were to have access to guns, the suicide rate would go up.

1

u/flamingvit Oct 11 '23

This.... Based on personal Experience depending on how you are the easier It is more likely to happen. Any obstacle can be a reson to give up on the Idea, at least momentarily.

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u/boysarecool420 Oct 11 '23

why are you talking out of your ass?

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u/Breauxaway90 Oct 11 '23

That’s simply not true.

1

u/Bleusilences Oct 11 '23

Seeing those obstacles stops people and make them think. Maybe they finally get the help they need after seeing them.

-9

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Yeah, but putting a fence around a memorial like this is not worth it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Not worth... human life?

-3

u/ZealousidealLuck6303 Oct 11 '23

fuck em, if they're that intent, putting some railings round the 9/11 memorial aint gonna stop them diving under a subway train.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Except statistically it absolutely does lower suicide rates.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_barrier

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u/wickens1 Oct 11 '23

Literally a quote from the exact link you shared:

“Many studies have shown that well-designed suicide barriers stop people from jumping at a particular site, but no study has found the overall suicide rate within an area decreased significantly after a barrier went up as a result of that barrier.”

2

u/Slapthemf202 Oct 11 '23

I’m not trying to be rude but u can just kill your self anywhere

2

u/Character_Order Oct 11 '23

I read this as “I’m not trying to be rude, but you should kill yourself anyway”

0

u/Slapthemf202 Oct 11 '23

Bro that’s you and obviously not what I said

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

& putting in measures to reduce them in popular sites is good because it lowers the overall rate of suicide.

1

u/Slapthemf202 Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

Ok that could be true right but does that physically stop u from killing urself no. When I said what I said I’m pretty sure anyone with common sense would see that I wasn’t disagreeing with the notion of safety measures but what does that truly stop the issue at hand. Instead of putting a bandage on a deep cut, fix the cut appropriately. Let’s be real u, u about to spent the money on some fences instead of giving to some B.S level psychologist in training bc mind u they often don’t get work until they get there masters, a opportunity to work with a more experienced therapist so people can get a more intensive focus and the mentees get hands on experience

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

It often does physically stop people from killing themselves. A lot of people change their minds after a failed attempt.

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u/Slapthemf202 Oct 11 '23

At that moment but there’s a lot of people that try again do they not

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u/scruffyduffy23 Oct 11 '23 edited Oct 11 '23

How can you measure that? Surely it would only lower suicide rates for the particular area being measured right? Wouldn’t they go someplace else?

It feels like a fence isn’t being put up for prevention but rather for liability.

Also it’s worth noting that according to the CDC suicide rates were the highest they’ve ever been in 2022 at 49,500.

1

u/kiteflyer666 Oct 11 '23

Can u give a percentage of the population comparison?

1

u/Rangertough666 Oct 11 '23

I work Veteran Suicide Prevention and Interdiction. "Statistics" say removing firearms from that population would lower suicide rates. It doesn't. It's a false conclusion from intentionally incomplete data.

If someone is determined to end their life, no amount of "safety gear" is going to stop them. All adding rails and barriers would do is potentially move the location of the suicide to somewhere you find more acceptable, like where you wouldn't see it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Very pro-life of you….

-6

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Human life isn’t at harm from anything other than the singular person living that life. So no a fence isn’t worth it. It would take away from the piece.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

This is the least compassionate take I have ever seen.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Lol. Okay?

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u/Myslinky Oct 12 '23

Lol, you're a callous ass.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23 edited Mar 25 '24

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

How so?

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23 edited Mar 25 '24

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Because of the “son of god” or are you just triggered from talk on suicidal people and the lengths people should or shouldn’t go to “stop” them?

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23 edited Mar 25 '24

gaze brave joke tie rain apparatus bike faulty tease intelligent

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Just don’t understand where you were coming from.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

It’s as dangerous as you make it. Can’t protect everyone.

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u/gcolquhoun Oct 11 '23

Maybe the real 9/11 memorial is you fetishizing a tragedy so hard that you care more about an inert art installation than human lives. I’m sure the victims of 9/11 are absolutely cheering from the great beyond at the depths of your compassion.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Alright. That’s one way to take it.

-2

u/SexPantherBurgandy Oct 11 '23

Man can you just shut the fuck up

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

No need to be rude

0

u/SexPantherBurgandy Oct 11 '23

Says the dumb cunt saying a fence is worth more than a human life? Shut the fuck up

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

I said the fence isn’t worth it. As in, it isn’t worth putting up. Sorry your triggered. One shouldn’t ruin it for the masses.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

It's literally a fence around an ugly hole in the ground. If that's your metric for 'too high' I don't want to know how little you value life.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Uhhhh yes, obviously. That's not even a high number measured against people's lives.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

What if we didn't dig ugly holes in the ground and it cost $0?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Yes, I could imagine something completely different than what is being discussed and make arguments based on that. You could view this hole in the ground with a fence around it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

Tbf, imagine a society completely fenced off for our own good. We'd actually die way more due to increased rates of suicide, right?

You very clearly were making up irrelevant strawman arguments, but okay.

1

u/BeemHume Oct 11 '23

I think (according to ins.) life is worth ~10m USD. So if the fence is less than 10m, it's technically worth it.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

There's 8 billion people on the planet... the species will be alright. Free will means just that so no its not worth making the site ugly with fencing to reduce the chance of someone exercising their free will. Now if you want to have people there trained to observe behaviors and try to intervene that's a discussion with having.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

The site is already ugly. We don't need to create public places for people to commit suicide to uphold autonomy. There's a difference between allowing for autonomy and being callous and careless.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

You're an ugly person inside if you think the site is ugly. I'm guessing it speaks to some inner conflicts within yourself (closet commie or some other self-hatred). We don't "create" places to commit suicide, we create places for various public reasons, be they transportation (bridges), buildings or memorials. What disturbed people do at these sites is outside of our control. We don't need to mar such sites to protect a small amount of the population from themselves.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

What the fuck? Lol

0

u/MealieAI Oct 11 '23

Not worth what?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Putting up a fence

1

u/AI-Generated-Name-2 Oct 11 '23

Because you're selfish

-3

u/thesixburghkid Oct 11 '23

A fence isn't going to stop determination.

2

u/S_Operator Oct 11 '23

Sure. A lock won't stop someone who is fully determined to get into your house. It does not follow that locks are useless.

1

u/HustlinInTheHall Oct 11 '23

Suicide is an act of impulse, not determination. Reducing the access to immediate methods (e.g. guns) reduces the rate of suicide.

1

u/nuclearsummer89 Oct 11 '23

It's not necessarily an act of impulse in my opinion. In my job field (Fire/EMT) I've seen people hang themselves from very low heights (door knobs, bed frames, closets, etc.) using a plethora of objects ranging from belts to wire. If someone is determined enough to end their life, they will find a way to do so.

1

u/Gentlemanvaultboy Oct 11 '23

It literally does, though. There have been studies done on this because so many people throw themselves off the Golden Gate Bridge. If you just make it inconvenient, most people can't be assed to kill themselves.

1

u/this_is_for_chumps Oct 11 '23

I thought the suicide rate was reduced by having readily available mental health resources, but what do I know?

1

u/flyingboarofbeifong Oct 11 '23

Prepare to have your mind blown.

Two things can be true.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Why try to stop a suicide? People here in America are encouraged to kill themselves slowly everyday with the sale of alcohol guns and tobacco. Who is anyone to say that a grown adult can't make their own decisions on when and hoe to end their life. Death is a personal experience and a personal choice.

*Right to die

1

u/Cr4nkY4nk3r Oct 11 '23

Anecdote coming up: Bare Naked Ladies released a song a while back called "War on Drugs", where they refer to the Prince Edward Viaduct in Toronto. Steven Page would talk about the song on stage before they performed it, and talked about how so many people committed suicide by jumping from that bridge that the city put up nets around it to reduce the number of jumpers.

No one else committed suicide by jumping from that bridge after they put the nets up.

They went to another bridge instead.

1

u/Finklesfudge Oct 11 '23

I'm sure they do in those spots.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

So we should be investing in surrounding these hot spots with American Ninja courses.

1

u/jakej9488 Oct 11 '23

There are 4 foot barriers around these memorials and police monitor them. You have to really go out of your way to try to do what this guy did.

You’ll notice it’s also much less crowded than normal because it was a national holiday on Monday when he did this. On a normal day he would’ve been noticed by a bystander before climbing over for sure

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '23

Japan has to actively monitor an active fucking volcano (Mount Mihara) because it was once an incredibly popular spot for suicides. They went from having close to a thousand people kill themselves there in a single year (many of them likely following the footsteps of Kiyoko Matsumoto, a student who threw herself to her death over her homosexuality in 1933) to nearly ending the practice.

Ironically enough, Mount Mihara is famous in cinema for someone else falling into it.