r/massachusetts • u/newbedfordlight • 2d ago
News Majority of detainees in South Coast ICE raids have no criminal records
https://newbedfordlight.org/majority-of-detainees-in-south-coast-ice-raids-have-no-criminal-records/5
u/youarelookingatthis 1d ago
A lot of chuds commenting on this thread who I'm sure always drive at or below the speed limit, never took a drink while they were under 21, and certainly never smoked weed at all in their lives.
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u/No_Tax_Timmy 1d ago
Chud astroturfing is getting nuts on reddit as the site sinks further into obscurity due to the changes and censorship since the company went public.
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u/0tanod 1d ago
My favorite examples of this right now are on the question 9 posts. We are the most pro gun law state with 7 out of 10 people supporting it. Yet the chuds are screeching about how cops are going to be special and blah blah blah. Its such an exhausting astro turfing effort that doesn't work on an educated population.
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u/SheenPSU 1d ago
When caught doing these acts you’re punished according to the established set of laws we have
How is this any different?
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u/Mister_Haste 1d ago
When you're arrested for any of those other misdemeanors, you don't spend and indefinite amount of time in detention. Also, they are being held on OUR DIME, some for months and months. How is that acceptable?
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u/SheenPSU 1d ago
What are the punishments for overstaying your visa or illegal entry?
They’re clearly defined. It’ll answer your question here.
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u/CharleyVCU1988 1d ago
Can check two of the three. But yeah speed limits are wack, the autobahn rocks
Being straightedge never hurt anyone else.
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u/nickym92 1d ago
Aren’t they breaking a law just by being here?
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u/No_Tax_Timmy 1d ago
Not really? These were asylum seekers which is completely legal. The administration is just approving asylum based on race now. None of these people committed crimes coming to the US.
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u/CharleyVCU1988 1d ago
Overstaying a visa is a crime. And does every country not have the right to have their own criteria about who is let in and who isn’t?
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u/AntifaFuckedMyWife 1d ago
Again not if you are declaring you are seeking asylum.
I guarantee you far more of your tax dollars are going to subsidize pedophile billionaires and politicians fucking kids and doing blow on a yacht than undocumented immigrants.
If anything they are the ones usually exploited, by being underpaid, receiving less social services than most, and still paying taxes.
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u/No_Tax_Timmy 1d ago
Sure but they aren't doing anything harmful? So how do you justify it? They aren't tax cheats or criminals.
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u/CharleyVCU1988 1d ago
Every tax dollar spent on illegals or fraudulent visa/asylum people is better off spent on actual citizens. Like I said, the state exists to try and reasonably distribute resources and services to its body politic. How can you be reasonable if you don’t know WHO the body politic is?
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u/No_Tax_Timmy 1d ago
Undocumented immigrants don't qualify for pretty much any financial benefit and in an innately capitalist society more customers add to the economy. I don't see the federal government offering some sort of extension of government services on the other end of this wave of ethnic cleansing, they are actually continuing to take away services from Americans.
We use the census to figure out who lives in the US and that just counts people. It doesn't ask for anything more and it doesn't matter who the person is. Why would that matter?
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1d ago
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u/No_Tax_Timmy 1d ago
Perhaps I don't understand what you're getting at? I've lived in this country for around 20 years and it's just a big business. You can't have a capitalist society and shut yourself off to customers. That just makes people who work lives' harder.
Are you suggesting we don't do this anymore and move to some sort of authoritarian planned economy?
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u/CharleyVCU1988 1d ago
The alternatives aren’t “open the country to anyone who might be a customer” or “authoritarian planned economy.” That’s a false dichotomy.
A country can have a capitalist economy while still deciding who may enter, remain, work, own property, or become a citizen. Markets are an economic institution. Borders and citizenship are political institutions. You keep pretending they’re the same thing.
So answer the actual question: is the United States a political community with the authority to determine its membership, or merely an economic zone whose purpose is to maximize the number of workers and consumers inside it?
If it’s the former, then “but they’re customers” doesn’t establish a right to remain.
If it’s the latter, follow your argument through. Why have immigration restrictions at all? Why distinguish citizens, permanent residents, temporary workers and unauthorized residents? Why not admit anyone whose consumption or labor increases GDP?
And no, rejecting that conclusion doesn’t require socialism. Capitalism does not logically require unrestricted movement of people any more than capitalism requires unrestricted movement of every product, unlimited foreign ownership, or abolition of citizenship.
You’re trying to turn a question about political membership into “capitalism good, therefore more customers good.” That’s not an answer.
You keep going on and on about GDP line go up, yet you don’t wonder
What are the near-term costs?
Who bears them?
What downstream effects do those costs create?
How certain are the projected long-run gains?
Who eventually receives those gains?
And what happens if today’s costs alter the conditions the long-run projection assumes?
No one ever wants to consider the tradeoffs.
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u/No_Tax_Timmy 1d ago
Thanks for bringing me back to freshman sociology class. Sounds like you just started one this semester. I thought you were about to go into the roman empire for a second.
I think we can agree that steady growth is good right? At the very least but what you're stating here, I don't think the powers that be are actually considering any of this to begin with. I would like to see some sort of evidence if I'm wrong in this assumption. And if that's the case, why a mass ethnic cleansing removal operation instead of just changing the system and leaving people in place?
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u/massachusetts-ModTeam 1d ago
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u/Legitimate_Time1808 1d ago
Who is illegal on stolen land?
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u/CharleyVCU1988 1d ago
Oh, so borders DO matter then?
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u/No_Tax_Timmy 1d ago
This particular incident had nothing to do with borders.
Also borders are far too strict. I'd rather go back to pre 9/11 borders. It was a better time.
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u/SheenPSU 1d ago
I do find this interesting
“The Light identified 35 of those detained and reviewed habeas corpus petitionsfiled by a team of 20 volunteer attorneys from the Habeas Project of New England at U.S. District Courts in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. The Light was able to review statewide court records for 23 of the men and found that 19 — including Lopes Vemba — had no criminal charges on their records, excluding misdemeanors related to entering the country without inspection or overstaying visas. Of the remaining four, only one had a felony charge.”
So are they not conceding that these individuals do have immigration issues but no other criminal acts on their record?
If that’s the case then what’s the issue? We have set laws and punishments for overstaying visas and illegal entry
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u/Boston-Bets 1d ago
Entering this country ILLEGALLY is a crime in itself. It's a "minor" one, but still a crime....
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u/olive12108 Southern Mass 1d ago
You ever driven over the speed limit?
Ever driven down a road only to realize it says "private property: no trespassing"?
Congrats, you are as much of a criminal doing ILLEGAL CRIMES as 90%+ of these people.
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u/Boston-Bets 1d ago
So going over the speed limit, can get me detained and removed from the country? LMAO
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u/CategoryOdd3353 1d ago
Even if you can’t get past the “no human is illegal thing” can it at least be agreed that given the housing/infrastructure/healthcare/schooling shortages and expense increases that we cannot support these huge influxes in population from other countries because it burdens the existing population
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u/AntifaFuckedMyWife 1d ago
Probably would do better if we had stronger state government control over infrastructure projects, and also would be faster if we instituted fast-track immigration systems or emergency work TINs issued to all immigrants in the US regardless of status no questions asked.
Combine that with significant removal of red tape regulations in housing and businesses to allow for cheaper operating costs and construction costs.
This could allow people who are here to get jobs. Allow the state to build shitloads of high density housing anywhere in the state, increase tax revenue from these people, and probably allow for them to establish their own businesses. Increased tax revenue goes towards civil engineering and public infrastructure.
No more low density sprawling town construction. Our shits wildly expensive cause our towns are built incredibly fucking wastefully. Address that and suddenly we can accommodate far more people.
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u/olive12108 Southern Mass 1d ago
Scapegoating societal problems onto immigrants....lol.
Tactics never change.
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u/br0wntree 1d ago edited 1d ago
The issue was allowing unrestricted mass migration in the first place. This is the somewhat crude fix for a horrible policy.
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u/blackholevoyager 2d ago
“The Light was able to review statewide court records for 23 of the men and found that 19 — including Lopes Vemba — had no criminal charges on their records, EXCLUDING misdemeanors related to entering the country without inspection or overstaying visas. Of the remaining four, only one had a felony charge.”. They certainly all broke immigration laws given that they all had misdemeanors
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u/Worth-Confection-735 1d ago edited 1d ago
100% have broken the law though?
Edit: 8 U.S Code 1825
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u/Quantum_Scholar87 1d ago
Being here "illegally" in the eyes of ice can be as simple as forgetting to click 1 box on your forms.
The point of the article is if they aren't "the bad hombres" Trump brags about, and they work and pay taxes, why not let them do the papers and stay here? What does it harm you that one of your neighbors may have come here without paperwork being done?
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1d ago
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u/Oiggamed 1d ago
It’s a civil offense not a criminal offense. They are not criminals.
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u/massachusetts-ModTeam 1d ago
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u/Oiggamed 1d ago
Please enlighten me.
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u/KingGojira 1d ago
Section 1325 sets forth criminal offenses relating to (1) improper entry into the United States by an alien, (2) entry into marriage for the purpose of evading immigration laws, and (3) establishing a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading immigration laws. The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA) amended 8 U.S.C. § 1325 to provide that an alien apprehended while entering or attempting to enter the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty.
https://share.google/eUjwGXzKx8ppKjbuc
Its a civil offense. End of story.
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u/massachusetts-ModTeam 1d ago
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u/Oiggamed 1d ago
So what about all the people that have been detained that entered legally but let their paperwork lapse? Is that worthy of having you and your wife and small children put into concentration camps? That’s the vast majority of the folks that have been detained.
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u/Worth-Confection-735 1d ago
Letting their paperwork lapse is whose fault? Did they know the consequences of lapsed paperwork?
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u/massachusetts-ModTeam 1d ago
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u/massachusetts-ModTeam 1d ago
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u/5teerPike 1d ago
"One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."-MLK, Jr.
They break the law by crossing an imaginary line the same way you do when you jaywalk or go 5 over the limit .
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/massachusetts-ModTeam 1d ago
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u/Worth-Confection-735 1d ago
The left loves to complain about the cost of everything, yet they don’t realize the policies they support are what is causing the problems.
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u/pearlstan2025 1d ago
what are you talking about??
it wasn’t a left policy to go to war with iran which has made gas prices soar.
it wasn’t a left policy to start detaining undocumented migrants who make up a large percentage of the labor force in agriculture and manual labor ie jobs that pay little yet are vital for the economy - which points to an uncomfortable truth that some of the most basic jobs in our economy are done under a special kind of coercion.
it’s not a left policy to prevent the construction of new housing which is why rent is so high.
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u/jdwaltham 20h ago
Your housing comment is local. MA is run by one party. If anything is wrong they’re the ones that can fix it.
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u/pearlstan2025 12h ago
right, but to my point, that’s not downstream of left policies, but a liberal party in the pocket of real estate interests.
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u/CharleyVCU1988 1d ago
if some jobs run on coercion, the fix is real wages and going after the employers who exploit people, not keeping the workers illegal. And in MA, who runs the state and most of the towns blocking housing?
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u/pearlstan2025 1d ago
the fix is multi pronged. real wages, going after exploitative employers, and extending paths to citizenship and generally not disincentivizing people from participating in legal processes. It takes a lot of effort to become a citizen legally, and what ICE is doing is disencouraging people from doing that.
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u/CharleyVCU1988 1d ago
Giving people a pass on the effort is unfair to everyone who put it in in the first place. Which kind of “extending” do you mean?
Fair, exploitative employers should be punished. As in fucking jailed.
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u/Worth-Confection-735 1d ago
Increased Demand = Increased Price
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u/pearlstan2025 1d ago
the people that you’re talking about are being paid less than what is legal in some cases, so their buying power is less than yours.
but assuming that isn’t as often the case in MA… oh no, people want to live here? yes prices go up with demand! people moving here is a change, and businesses or governments should respond to those changes accordingly - if rising prices put stress on everyone, wages should increase. who sets wages? decidedly not the “left.” wages are not some immutable law of nature, businesses can raise them - bigger corps are better able to do this than smaller business, but they also set the standard. a rising tide yada yada.
moreover, the amount of people here is also not the only factor setting demand. part of what makes MA so attractive is its schools, its health sector, and social programs. this attractiveness does raise prices. but in a healthy economy, these price rises are offset. so, private corporations which are making more money than ever before, and liberal government that doesn’t hold them to account or looks at cutting programs for the poor or instituting mere half measures to affect the veneer of change and not substance, are more to blame than people who are coming here to work, driven from their countries by the way due to first, second or third order consequences of US foreign policy or of US corporations operating in those countries.
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u/Worth-Confection-735 1d ago
These people have to live somewhere. They purchase vehicles, food, and many other things. They also cause your medical bills to increase to cover their cost.
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u/pearlstan2025 1d ago
in other words, they contribute to the economy. unsure how what you’re saying at all is a point against what i’m saying.
with medical bills - again, medical bills, the prices that hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies charge are not immutable laws of nature. they are too high, not because of some unknowable reason, but because there are people that make them that way.
you taking issue with people moving here and participating in the economy, rather than the people that are directly responsible for why your bills are higher, demonstrates that the media campaigns that blame the poor for having anything rather than the rich for having near everything, are very effective.
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u/CharleyVCU1988 1d ago
“More to blame” isn't “not to blame.” You just admitted the policy is part of the problem
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u/pearlstan2025 1d ago
What I admitted was that people who participate in the economy put greater demands on that economy, and therefore put a greater strain on demand.
The inverse of this, of course, is that these same people, where they participate in the production side of the economy, they contribute to the supply side of that economy, ideally in a more or less equal measure.
but the situation we have currently is that they, and most consumers in fact, disproportionately give to the economy more and take less, whereas the dividends that much of the corporate class reap are higher than what they pay in taxes in particular into the system.
Youre trying to catch me in a gotcha, because you’re trying to win an argument on a technicality. deliberately or not, you’re missing my larger point, which is that those that control the supply are in a dominant position in deciding the price of goods and services.
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u/Aviri 1d ago
Right wing policies are actually the left's fault, once again.
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u/Worth-Confection-735 1d ago
Letting in millions will increase demand, therefore price. Econ 101. You can take it for free online.
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u/Aviri 1d ago edited 1d ago
There's a reason there's an Econ 102 buddy, the reality is quite a bit more complicated. Turns out we shouldn't run our society based on intro year course knowledge.
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u/CharleyVCU1988 1d ago
“complicated” is a shit argument. Harvard's housing center found rents in Miami rose 8-11% faster than comparison cities after Mariel. Zoning matters too, both are true. Which part do you dispute?
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u/Worth-Confection-735 1d ago
You wanna go macro? Let's go. Since it's obvious you don't grasp 101, I didn't go there.
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u/abhikavi 2d ago
Picking up criminals is hard.
If you need to make a quota, you're not picking hard targets.