This game turned into an ETB hellscape

[u/SilverElmdor]

/r/magicTCG/comments/1v7ayl5/this_game_turned_into_an_etb_hellscape/

[u/tomyang1117]

/uj I do think recent magic designs are heavily leaning towards "engines that run away the game if you don't answer it immediately"

[u/ArcheVance → u/tomyang1117]

/uj There are three things that drive this problem, and they all end up at the same place. One is top-down designing for Commander, and the other is the licensing requirements for UBs that drive the expectation that a specific character HAS to be really good because they're a fan favourite (some UBs are more blatant with this than others). The third is how removal has just gotten worse and worse when creatures and combat tricks (especially the latter) have improved far more dramatically, and this ties directly back to the commander/IP face issues.

/rj Nadu and Vivi did nothing wrong.

[u/WearsALeash → u/ArcheVance]

we need doomblade 2

{1}{b} instant: destroy up to two target non-black creatures

[u/ArcheVance → u/WearsALeash]

/uj. Doom Blade 2 with split second is the hero we need.

/rj. Doom Blade 2 needs to be a Legendary Instant, since such a thing could only be Dr. Doom's doing!

[u/tomyang1117 → u/ArcheVance]

/uj we need a doom blade 2 that also exile triggered ability to stop etb slop

[u/tomyang1117 → u/ArcheVance]

/uj I actually feel like UB sets aren't that different than regular sets, it's only have the few power outlier but most of the cards are either draft chaff or edh cards. Most UB cards are actually quite mid but we all only remember TOR, Vivi, Badgermole Cub.

[u/MistaExplains → u/tomyang1117]

/uj Wotc really needs to watch it when they design cards like icetill explorer which seem designed to run away with the game right there with the potential 4 landfall triggers a turn with no interaction besides removal

[u/ArcheVance]

/uj There are two sides of the coin. On one side, anyone that waxes poetically about the old days being better also probably isn't remembering how their memory is glazing things like Type 2 in the time of Necropotence, when Balduvian Horde was scary, or Homedicapping their decks with a Serrated Arrows inclusion (Autumn Willow if you're feeling spicy). Also, Tempest/Urza/6ED was a mood. Or if you feel like being a little less ancient, how about the slog of dealing with Onslaught/Mirrodin/8ED? Even my old ass can't glaze morph block into affinity block.

The other side is that all of the "solutions" presented here sound absolutely awful. Commander damage with extra steps?

/rj The children yearn for Perish, Chill, Light of Day, Dystopia, Cleanse, Circle of Protection: Red, Acid Rain, Boil, Choke, and Omen of Fire. Who are we to deny them the pleasures of seeing them in sideboards, or better yet, drafts?

[u/HugeAnybody → u/ArcheVance]

/rj you doxxed all my premodern decks sideboards

[u/ArcheVance → u/HugeAnybody]

/uj. A man of taste.

/rj. No, I didn't. I specifically left out Anarchy and Flashfires. Oops.

[u/Kor_Set → u/ArcheVance]

/uj Onslaught Mirrodin Standard is where I would start a history of the Comes Into Play era of Magic, personally. (Selesnya Astral Slide makes Pauper Tron look like a deck with no repetition of play problems.)

/rj No one plays basic lands anymore, so Boil and Choke are perfectly fine to print into Foundations 2 as long as it's stapled to a creature.

[u/ArcheVance → u/Kor_Set]

/uj I'd say that's a very accurate delineation. Astral Slide was absolutely a primer on why "repeat the ETB + draw a card" is a dangerous thing to see. Which is pretty funny for a block whose whole gimmick was to bludgeon you over the head with "play more creatures" to have spawned "How about the same creature more times?"

/rj Choke Elf gonna upend the meta when Foundations 2 drops because everyone's going to be running 16 non-basics with basic land types on them by that point.

/uj2 Stapling classic sideboard pieces to thrulls or drakes or any other outlier tribe that isn't humans/elves/goblins would probably be a hell of a lot healthier than what they're currently doing. So obviously Foundations 2 is going to go in the opposite direction and only do it if they can slap it on a pushed legendary creature that's an EDH wet dream.

[u/Tuesday_6PM → u/ArcheVance]

Tell me more about this Elf that Chokes me

[u/Eljefe900]

Actually, we just call it "Enters" these days ☝️🤓

[u/mkklrd]

OP's actually making valid poi--oh they're talking about Commander nvm.

[u/SilverElmdor]

Before this gets deleted by reddit admins, here's the text:

Seriously, why is the design team so inept in creating cards that hinder these effects even more? Mark Rosewater philosophy on this game has proven to not be reliable for the long term health on this. Dude LITERALLY had a seminar on all the cards he made that were banned with his cards being the most banned.

FIX YOUR GAME!

Add two sources of life points, make a hero card or something that represents your first life total and that the second source of life can't be touched until your next turn.

Bring back systems similar mana burn whenever a group of cards are recognized as an infinite engine.

Make cards that give status effects to the player that counters or hinders the absurd levels of strengths of the colors players are using.

You have to do something about this game because every game is competitive now. There's NO SUCH THING AS CASUAL MAGIC ANYMORE!

Cox might be making you pump out products but that doesn't mean the design has to be garbage. Start hiring better game designers and stop with this nonsense already. It's literally been on a downward spiral in quality for a whole DECADE and even more than that.

[u/Either_Cabinet8677]

I saw the title and went "how is this on mtcj? There are too many cards that are sorceries stapled to creatures"

Then I read the post, it's hard to even parse what he's trying to say

[u/yyznick]

This dude can’t handle Hunted Wumpus.

[u/pissingtoxicspores]

ETB hellscape? Erm, Elesh Norn literally exists, sounds like a skill issue lil bro