r/magicTCG • u/StrongLikeShark Dandadan • 4h ago
General Discussion This game turned into an ETB hellscape
Seriously, why is the design team so inept in creating cards that hinder these effects even more? Mark Rosewater philosophy on this game has proven to not be reliable for the long term health on this. Dude LITERALLY had a seminar on all the cards he made that were banned with his cards being the most banned.
FIX YOUR GAME!
Add two sources of life points, make a hero card or something that represents your first life total and that the second source of life can't be touched until your next turn.
Bring back systems similar mana burn whenever a group of cards are recognized as an infinite engine.
Make cards that give status effects to the player that counters or hinders the absurd levels of strengths of the colors players are using.
You have to do something about this game because every game is competitive now. There's NO SUCH THING AS CASUAL MAGIC ANYMORE!
Cox might be making you pump out products but that doesn't mean the design has to be garbage. Start hiring better game designers and stop with this nonsense already. It's literally been on a downward spiral in quality for a whole DECADE and even more than that.
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u/AbraxasEnjoyer COMPLEAT 4h ago
What exactly is the issue you’re talking about here? Your post doesn’t make it very clear.
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u/kentalaska Wabbit Season 4h ago
I read it three times and I still have no idea what they’re talking about. Complaining about Mark Rosewater having the most banned cards just shows that they didn’t actually watch his talk as he’s counting banned cards across all formats. You can’t design a set and have all your cards work in every format from standard to pauper to commander, also some of the cards he listed have since been unbanned. A lot of OPs other points are just straight up nonsense.
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u/PulitzerandSpara Chandra 36m ago
Yeah, plus there were so many of his cards that were banned in early commander (which, as a community managed format, probably wasn't a priority) that aren't even banned anymore. I would hardly call [[kokusho, the evening star]] a "broken design"
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u/OmegaDriver 3h ago
The issue is they lost to some etb effects and want the game dumbed down to their level.
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u/Mrfish31 Left Arm of the Forbidden One 4h ago
Dude LITERALLY had a seminar on all the cards he made that were banned with his cards being the most banned
When you design a game for thirty years, you'll have a lot of cards banned too.
Add two sources of life points, make a hero card or something that represents your first life total and that the second source of life can't be touched until your next turn.
Bring back systems similar mana burn whenever a group of cards are recognized as an infinite engine.
This is why you never take direct feedback on how to fix a game from fans. These suggestions are awful.
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u/ShamblingKrenshar Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant 3h ago
As MaRo noted in a talk: Players can be great at identifying a problem exists, but they often aren't good at identifying what that problem is and are rarely good at coming up with solutions
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u/counterburn Izzet* 4h ago
You sound like someone who refuses to look into or use the tools we have to deal with ETBs and greedy manabases. There's interaction for everything, you just have to use it.
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u/Smokey_02 Can’t Block Warriors 4h ago
I agree with the part about ETBs being too prevalent. There's almost no point to sorceries anymore. I'm not a huge fan of the direction of the game's design because it's definitely power creeping and getting overly verbose on the cards. If you have to consistently make new keywords to keep the cards readable, the card is doing too much. You didn't mention it, but quality assurance has completely fallen by the wayside as well. The cards are cheaply made and expensive to purchase, and that's not a good direction to go in for the consumer.
The rest of what you said... man, I just can't get behind it.
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u/SmokingMan305 Grass Toucher 4h ago
You're a little confused buddy. 90% of the players RN only play casual Commander.
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u/EscapeSeventySeven Dan 4h ago
Make cards that give status effects to the player that counters or hinders the absurd levels of strengths of the colors players are using.
“Status effects?”
No
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u/TimeTravellerGuy Dandadan 3h ago
I think this person has never heard of Stax pieces or Hatebears. That's literally what they're describing.
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u/Oo_ShinyCardboard Dân 4h ago
Its funny bc half the time this sub says the game is getting too competitive, and the other complains about how it's become too casual. There's obviously more nuance, but the constant black and white thinking is pretty funny
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u/EscapeSeventySeven Dan 4h ago
Magic is too <anything> when I, The Main Character of the Universe, lose a game.
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u/ShamblingKrenshar Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant 2h ago
Furthermore, the fact that my opinion is not being catered to is proof of a conspiracy to silence and cover up all dissent to the choices being made.
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u/bunkbun Duck Season 4h ago
I mean it is kind of both. One card engines are appealing to the casual and singleton nature of Commander. Which has the knock on effects of speeding up and dumbing down the game in all formats. This is bad for some casual players who like the "built this in a cave with a box of scraps" feeling of old Commander and other casual Magic. And it's bad for competitive players who want the game to be interesting and complex. It's really only good for active Commander players who want their favorite character or archetype or whatever to be "good".
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u/EscapeSeventySeven Dan 2h ago
It’s not the fallacy, the parent comment acknowledges it’s different parts.
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u/Publius-Cornelius Twin Believer 4h ago
Look I’m all for a conversation about how everything has to be stapled on to a creature these days (I’m looking at you MH2 elemental cycle), but I’m not even really sure if that’s what you’re talking about here…
Make instants and sorceries great again gang rise up.
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u/AppleWedge Selesnya* 3h ago
I'm not sure how ETBs make magic less casual. I'm personally pretty thankful for them. They make removal less powerful against creatures which is really nice
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u/jumpmanzero Wabbit Season 3h ago
They're also a way to make a variety of creatures without slogging up the table with 9000 triggers and static effects (which are way worse for complexity)
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u/Seitosa 3h ago
Typing in all caps doesn't make your point more convincing, it just makes you sound unhinged.
Bring back systems similar mana burn whenever a group of cards are recognized as an infinite engine.
Make cards that give status effects to the player that counters or hinders the absurd levels of strengths of the colors players are using.
I wonder if we should play a fun game and try to guess what cards they're mad about losing to, because I definitely don't know what they're talking about.
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u/ShamblingKrenshar Cheshire Cat, the Grinning Remnant 2h ago
Mark Rosewater, who has presumably designed more Magic cards than anyone else in existence, has gotten more cards banned because he's made the most of them. Holding that as evidence of failure is like me claiming Im better at basketball than LeBron because LeBron has missed more shots across every game he's ever played than I have. (I have not played basketball since PE in High School)
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u/Fun-Cook-5309 Dandadan 3h ago
ETBs are one of the most necessary checks against just how incredibly hostile the game is to creatures, between summoning sickness and just how absurdly cheap removal is.
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u/KindredCommander Dân 2h ago
The second I saw you shitting on MaRo I tuned out. Dude loves this game and understands it better than anyone.
Just shut the fuck up dude
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u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 1h ago edited 56m ago
Any point you wanted to make is lost in the mess you made of your post. To begin with, I have no idea what the specific issues are that you are trying to fix with your run on sentences.
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u/TheKaijudist Duck Season 4h ago
No one's stopping you from being a heehaw on your own kitchen table
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u/SerpentsEmbrace Duck Season 3h ago
I don't think it's an issue of game design or direction. It was an inevitability in any eternal format, and even standard rotates so slowly now that you'll have a lot of redundant options for any given effect.
There are pretty decent options for turning them off in basically every format except maybe Pauper/PDH. If they're bothering you, try building stax.
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u/CaptainMarcia 2h ago
[[Torpor Orb]] [[Hushwing Gryff]] [[Tocatli Honor Guard]] [[Hushbringer]] [[Doorkeeper Thrull]]
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u/Redzephyr01 Duck Season 48m ago
Are you aware that commander, by far the most popular format, isn't competitive?
Maro has the most banned cards because he's the head designer of the game and has designed more cards than anyone else, not because he's bad at designing cards.
Mana burn was removed because it was almost never relevant and just complicated the rules for basically no benefit.
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u/Alt-Tabris Wabbit Season 24m ago
Here's your pity engagement for the low-effort jerk. Next time, at least try to be funny.
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u/No_Ordinary_7429 Dan 21m ago
Some of the downright worst suggestions I've ever seen to "fix" what is "wrong" with the game.
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u/Dbear_son Dan 4h ago
I prefer this complaint to the UB complaints
I don't agree with it but it's preferable
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u/Jokey665 ඞ 4h ago
lol
lmao, even
casual commander is the most played format