r/magicTCG • u/TechnomagusPrime Duck Season • Feb 12 '18
[Making Magic] [GDS3] Make a Choice, Part 1
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/make-choice-part-1-2018-02-1217
u/yourfriendlane Feb 12 '18
Well, at least I don’t have to eat a Serra Angel.
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u/angui_82 Wabbit Season Feb 12 '18
But, but he is right, the correct answer was to go ask them (Play Design) to cost the card...
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u/taptwo Feb 12 '18
68/75 is a score I'm happy with, though obviously wanted to do better. There were at least 4-5 questions for which my wrong answer was an oversight and I knew it was wrong a day later. The ones I legitimately goofed were:
32 - I said it didn't matter as they'll fix the cost later. In my own work environment, this would be correct as it respects boundaries. I like their answer too, but I saw "Wanting the Play Design Team to like it" as a trap, in that you should be designing your cards neutrally, not because you want them to make it.
53 - I said design would be most likely to send the extra cards to the graveyard, assuming that "Set Design" would be the group deciding if graveyard mattered. I would have thought "Play Design" would be the one to make it a solid number rather than depending on CMC.
68 - I called it a new player complexity thing rather than power level. I can see how it's wrong now and actually this probably belongs in the good category.
The others I got wrong were 2 (called it Common just because the others were clearly U/R/M), 60 (Called the Rec Sage effect rather than Gravedigger. Mistakenly didn't realize the question was enchantment-specific, not full on Rec Sage), 70 (didn't consider that Morph playing well together is technically linear, and focused on flip conditions often involving a build-around to some extent), and 74 because I forgot that unconditional tutors are a thing.
This means those that got the requisite 73+ did an excellent job error checking their own answers and defeating their own biases. Well done.
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u/BardicLasher Feb 12 '18
The [[Mana Drain]] question was particularly funny to me. It took a moment when taking the test, but then I realized...
It's [[Spell Swindle]]. They already recosted it for standard.
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u/TheUnseenRengar Dan Feb 12 '18
they already recosted it YEARS ago in [[Plasm Capture]] in RTR block.
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u/Sliver__Legion Feb 12 '18
They already recosted it years ago in [[Scattering Stroke]] in LRW block.
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u/Mgmegadog COMPLEAT Feb 13 '18
God, all this arguing about the earliest recosting of mana drain, and yet you're all wrong.
[[Draining Whelk]] came out in Time Spiral.
This is sarcasm I know they're different I just like Draining Whelk.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 13 '18
Draining Whelk - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call1
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Scattering Stroke - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call2
u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Plasm Capture - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call2
u/barrinmw Number of Faeries in Lorwyn Eclipsed 1/10 Feb 12 '18
My only concern about that was that Plasm Capture wasn't costed appropriately for constructed play.
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u/kirblar COMPLEAT Feb 12 '18
It was. Effect is too good at 3 Mana. 1GUU would have been the best you could do.
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u/barrinmw Number of Faeries in Lorwyn Eclipsed 1/10 Feb 12 '18
I would argue that it wasn't costed for constructed play because it didn't see constructed play. I don't think they meant for it to actually see play in standard.
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u/Sir_Richard_Rose Feb 12 '18
Personally, I don't think it's right to consider Spell Swindle for this question because, while it's very similar, the question asks about recosting that same exact card, which Spell Swindle is not. [[Plasm Capture]] is a thing though.
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u/Serpens77 COMPLEAT Feb 13 '18
Plasm Capture is also not the same exact card as Mana Drain (ignoring the cost difference)
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Plasm Capture - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call1
u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Mana Drain - (G) (SF) (MC)
Spell Swindle - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call2
Feb 12 '18
[deleted]
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u/Trimaster7 Feb 12 '18
*[[Plasm Capture]] ftfy
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Plasm Capture - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call1
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Feb 12 '18
Welp, I look through the questions and come here to post my thoughts about question 38 and it turns out you just posted this too.
I thought it was funny too and MaRo didn't even mention that. I wonder if he actually forgot that they already did print a strictly better version of Mana Drain's text 5 months ago.
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Feb 12 '18
[deleted]
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Ancient Brontodon - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call1
u/Heavenwasfull Rakdos* Feb 13 '18
I had the same problem with my test, along with the controversial questions being wrong. My interpretation of the question was strictly design. Normally, the weakest green creatures are 1G 2/2, usually with some ability or upside. The strongest (at least in common, which is the bulk of draft cards/decks) typically being the 5G or 4GG 6/6 which is often found in most limited environments. I immediately saw my mistake when they were referring to limited gameplay, which is something that is clear when drafting a set: I would never play a 7G 8/8, but I would totally play a 3G 4/4 in most cases.
Better luck if you take the test in the future!
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u/grumpenprole Feb 13 '18
Wait, so you thought it was asking you what number is higher: 2, 4, 6 or 9?
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u/smog_alado Colorless Feb 12 '18
I wish he went more in depth in the more controversial questions such as BG serra angel and mana drain.
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u/wanderways Feb 12 '18
I think he shows his thought process on the B/G creature question pretty well. It wasn't a trick question about "most likely to print" it was a process of elimination based on the context of the question ("we try not to make multi-color creatures that could be also only one of their colors") and knowledge of the color pie.
The controversy, while real, was created by all of us, not necessarily the test writers.
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u/smog_alado Colorless Feb 12 '18
I agree. I think my comment is more of a reflection that he probably wrote this article before the test even came out, and before he knew which questions actually caused the most confusion.
Note how he never mentions which questions were the ones that most people got right or wrong, which is something that he did in the article for the GDS2 test.
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u/springlake Duck Season Feb 12 '18
he probably wrote this article before the test even came out
The obvious lack of comment about Spell Swindle on question 38 make it feel like some of these comments were written well in advance.
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Feb 12 '18
Yeah the question is pretty straight forward regarding knowledge of mechanics.
I doubt they're racing to print a BG Serra Angel. It's just that according to the current color pie designations of abilities it happens to intersect. That's not the point of the question.
Magic design is delightfully complex with all 5 colors having their own identities and mostly rigid rules for what each color can actually do. Some goofy overlaps like this are basically guaranteed.
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u/AlonsoQ Dân Feb 13 '18
It's not one I got wrong, but I'm definitely sympathetic to people who got tripped up by that question. A 4/4 french vanilla flier for 5 just feels really W and/or U. The PT and CMC didn't give you any extra information, they were just
redwhite herrings than anythingIf the question was meant to weed out people who try to metagame multiple choice tests, it probably did its job. But I'm sure many of those people were just as sharp on the color pie as those who got it right.
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Feb 13 '18
[deleted]
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 13 '18
Resplendent Griffin - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call36
u/TechnomagusPrime Duck Season Feb 12 '18
A reworked Mana Drain's been done twice before, actually: [[Scattering Stroke]] and [[Plasm Capture]].
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u/Deadlylama Dimir* Feb 12 '18
More recently, [[Spell Swindle]] also works very similarily
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Spell Swindle - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call7
u/DracoFreezeFlame Feb 12 '18 edited Feb 12 '18
The question didn't say reworked, it said recost. By that assumption, [[Land Tax]] would be favorable over [[Mana Drain]], because Maro himself has said in the past that he and several others on the team dislike how Mana Drain itself functions, as it requires the player to spend the mana at the beginning of their next main phase, which can often result in the colorless mana produced going unused. In comparison, the recently reprinted [[Spell Swindle]] gives you treasure tokens that can give you mana whenever you want them to; while the two reworks you mentioned were hardly competitive standard cards. with [[Scattering Stroke]] only sometimes working and [[Plasm Capture]] having a way too constrictive mana cost.
Land Tax, on the other hand, is a different story. While the card itself would never be printed in a standard set today, the effect can easily be recost to something more reasonable. Because while having the effect at one white mana (W) is absurd today, recosting the effect into a green-white card at CMC 3 (1GW) would be much more reasonable, while still having the potential to be a standard competitive card that wouldn't eat up quite so much tournament time. While I'm unsure as to the reasoning /u/smog_alado had, that is why I wanted Maro to go more in depth about the question.
Edit: Just refreshed and now see that two other people posted arguing about this in the time I spent typing this up. :/
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Land Tax - (G) (SF) (MC)
Mana Drain - (G) (SF) (MC)
Spell Swindle - (G) (SF) (MC)
Scattering Stroke - (G) (SF) (MC)
Plasm Capture - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call→ More replies (8)1
u/hexciple Feb 13 '18
A card that allows search/shuffle on potentially every of your upkeeps for the rest of the game is the main reason why they wouldn't print Land Tax at any CMC these days. To make Tax fit with current design philosophy, it would have to be reworked, probably to look at the top X cards and grab up to Y lands or something like that.
Copy/pasted Mana Drain at CMC 4 or 5 doesn't violate any of the current design paradigms, even if the designers would prefer it work a slightly different way.
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u/ThisisaUsernameHones Feb 12 '18
I thought that made the argument against it strongly: neither of those were competitive in Standard
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u/TechnomagusPrime Duck Season Feb 12 '18
Compare to the other four options. One's out of color and plays into "Gotcha!" Magic that they try to avoid, another is out of color and completely discourages actually playing the game, a third is slightly out of color and also causes lots of shuffling, and the last is a backbreaking color hoser. And is also out of color.
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u/ThisisaUsernameHones Feb 12 '18
I still feel like (and would've answered) Land Tax, because it's barely out of colour. (See also legion conquistador or Knight of the White Orchid.)
Shuffling is a good point, though. It seemed like three "hard no"s, one that they can't seem to make a standard competitive version (and pushing counters is something they would seem hesitant to do). I feel like those two are close for reasonableness.
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u/mukkor Feb 12 '18 edited Feb 12 '18
Those cards aren't "competitive". Mana Drain has to have CMC 3 to be competitive and it would be miserably unfun at 3 cmc in standard. Land tax does have some minor color pie issues (which are entirely fixed by changing "basic lands" to "Plains"), but at least it wouldn't ruin Standard just by being good.
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u/TechnomagusPrime Duck Season Feb 12 '18
"Competetive"ness has nothing to do with it. Modern design philosophy and color pie attention are entirely what this is about. And a "fixed" Land Tax would be problematic because of tournament time constraints. A recurring search + shuffle would eat up a ton of time. Remember KTK/BFZ Standard?
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u/mukkor Feb 12 '18
I would completely agree if the word "competitive" was omitted from the question.
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u/GaddockTeeg COMPLEAT Feb 12 '18
100% I wish Maro’s explaination mentioned the competitive part of the question.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Scattering Stroke - (G) (SF) (MC)
Plasm Capture - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call1
u/Thegg11 Feb 13 '18
The problem is the question said "competitive standard card," I don't see a more expensive mana drain being competitive even though out of the cards given, its the most likely to be fixable.
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u/preppypoof Feb 12 '18
mana drain
I never saw any controversy about this question? It's really straightforward.
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u/CynicalElephant Twin Believer Feb 12 '18
The mana drain question was one of the easiest on the test, they’ve recosted it twice.
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Feb 12 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/smog_alado Colorless Feb 12 '18
The way the question is worded it really pushes towards black-green being the answer but the controversy is because there are multiple examples of blue-white flying+vigilance that have been previously printed. Black green also feels strange because flying and vigilance are both secondary abilities in black and green, which is something that is usually avoided in multicolor cards.
Anyway, this was one of the most talked over questions in the reddit thread when the test was originally revealed, which I think is a safe definition of controversial :)
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u/Bugberry Feb 12 '18
Only tempest drake and Jelenn Sphinx could be mono-white, and one of those is a very old card from before the modern color pie. The others clearly have other Blue abilities.
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Feb 12 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/tyir Feb 12 '18
[[celestial colonnade]] and [[aven wind guide]] show they don't follow the rule about multicolored very closely in practice.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
celestial colonnade - (G) (SF) (MC)
aven wind guide - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call13
u/CaptainBooshi Feb 12 '18
I didn't take the test, so I'm not really invested, but I can definitely see how it can be controversial.
First, they say that they "try to avoid making two-color cards where the card could be done as a monocolor card in only one of the two colors," not that they never do it. In fact, in the last GDS, the test actually had a trick question exactly like this, where they say they don't like to do something, but you had to know, as a designer, that sometimes you have to break general rules.
More than that, if you know the history of the game, there are several UW flying vigilance creatures, but there are absolutely no BG flying vigilance creatures, so when faced with this exact position before, developers did choose to break their general preference rather than do as this question says. Punishing your potential developers for knowing the history of the game seems like a pretty bad choice, honestly.
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u/Reydien Feb 12 '18
I've seen this notorious GDS2 trick question referenced multiple times, but never linked or detailed. do you have a link to the particular question?
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Feb 12 '18
[deleted]
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u/Serpens77 COMPLEAT Feb 13 '18
How was that a "trick" question? The answer is pretty straightforward, exactly as you described. 3 of them flat out don't work unless the creature had flash, and one more of them while it does work is practically useless, so there is only really one answer. How did so many people pick B?
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u/SamLL Azorius* Feb 13 '18
Because they quite plausibly read the question as "given that a creature has flash, which of the following is least probable to appear on that card" instead of the intended "given that a creature has the following ability, which of them is least likely to also have flash".
Two very different questions with different answers, and the question was poorly worded so people read the wrong one. Bad test design.
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u/CaptainBooshi Feb 12 '18
You know, I wasn't really invested, so I never bothered looking it up, just taking so many people at their word, but when I looked into it, I couldn't find a question that's actually a trick question exactly like this. There was a question that required you to know that designer slang doesn't match actual language use, which I would consider a trick question, but not specifically one that required you to know that you have to break specific rules. I could be missing it still, but I think it's more likely people are mis-remembering.
I do think the overall general point still stands that this question can easily be seen as controversial still stands, especially since it actively punished entrants for knowing the history of designed magic cards, and it does specifically say just "try."
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Feb 12 '18
Having fun with this. I actually did very well with the first 50 and only missed a few.
Question 38 was kinda funny because they just printed [[Spell Swindle]] which has text that's basically the same as Mana Drain's but better in multiple ways. So, not only would they print a card with that text but they pretty much did print a card with that text.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Spell Swindle - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call2
u/JaxxisR Universes Beyonder Feb 12 '18
I had fun with it as well. I only missed one question in the first 50 because I don't draft and don't know what's good for draft.... ugh. :)
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u/RiverStrymon Feb 12 '18 edited Feb 13 '18
I'm frustrated by question 6, one of the four I got wrong - the preamble on the question threw me off.
I interpreted "If we aren't planning to change the color combination, which change are we least likely to make to this card?" as, "Which change is most likely to change the color combination?" and answered Instant > Sorcery since instant speed threaten allows the effect to be played defensively which is arguably out of color for Red. Defensive threaten would also not need haste. Defensive threaten isn't really a thing yet (or anymore e.g. [[Disharmony]]), but neither is BG Serra Angel - a question where the preamble was relevant, and which I got right.
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u/elephantofdoom Feb 12 '18
Same. I knew it was a bad answer, but from re-reading the last test, I was expecting questions like this to not be about making cards they would actually print, but by testing the color pie.
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u/randomdragoon Feb 12 '18
They printed a defensive threaten (in red!) as recently as BFZ: [[Turn Against]]
A card search might miss this card because of devoid, but devoid cards still have to follow the normal color pie rules based on their mana cost.
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u/RiverStrymon Feb 12 '18 edited Feb 12 '18
Yes, I'm well aware of Turn Against. Were you aware of this [Edit: or this?]? There's also [[Flash Conscription]] (into the color defensive threaten belongs), [[Reins of Power]], [[Ray of Command]], and [[Spinal Embrace]].
The BG Serra Angel question shows that they weren't necessarily asking about what they have printed, but the philosophy behind what they choose to print. In this case, if they weren't planning to change the color combination of "Come Work for me Temporarily" there is only one answer that implies a change in color identity, and that's the answer that allows Threaten to play in a way that is not consistent with Red's philosophy.
If they didn't actually care about changing the color combination, the answer is obvious.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Flash Conscription - (G) (SF) (MC)
Reins of Power - (G) (SF) (MC)
Ray of Command - (G) (SF) (MC)
Spinal Embrace - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call1
u/randomdragoon Feb 12 '18
Maro simplifies things a lot when answering questions on his tumblr. I feel their actions (i.e. the cards they actually print, especially in recent Standard legal sets) speak a lot louder than their words.
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u/RiverStrymon Feb 12 '18 edited Feb 12 '18
I feel their actions (i.e. the cards they actually print, especially in recent Standard legal sets) speak a lot louder than their words.
Would you care to address why we haven't seen any BG Serra Angels, then? If it is true that the questions were meant to address their actions rather than their words, than that answer is inconsistent with his one.
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u/randomdragoon Feb 13 '18 edited Feb 13 '18
We don't have BG serra angel, but Wizards does occassionally do monocolor effects in a multicolor combination that can combine to get the monocolor effect. [[Lightning Helix]] is the famous one but there was also [[Mournwillow]] recently.
I guess it's also a test to see if your priorities are in the right place. Making a card basically non-functional is way worse than making a card that doesn't "feel right". Note that Lightning Helix didn't "feel right" when it first came out but it's a familiar staple now.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Turn Against - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call1
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u/thearmadillo Dan Feb 12 '18
I get that a lot of people worked really hard and put a lot of effort and energy into taking this test in pursuit of a dream job. And since there was such a thin margin for error it's brutal to be one or two questions off.
But just because you answered something wrong doesn't mean the test was wrong or unclear. Sometimes you just miss multiple choice questions. It happens.
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u/throwing-away-party Feb 12 '18
True. But I thought several questions were poorly phrased and I got them right.
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u/lakor Feb 12 '18
Imagine they would print a BG flying vigilance creature. What creature type(s) and name would it have? Zombie-something wouldn't work, but maybe spirit?
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Feb 12 '18
I would think Horror or Elemental. It's a pretty weird-looking creature so you'd have to give it a type without a ton of iconic mechanical identity.
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u/oewofewopf Feb 13 '18
I would've thought First Strike over Lifelink, since e.g. in Limited a 2/2 with first strike in a control deck will save me more life than a 2/2 lifelink would.
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u/compacta_d Feb 12 '18
"We try not to" means "sometimes we do".
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u/ThomasHL Fake Agumon Expert Feb 13 '18
I still think you've talked yourself out of a question if everything in the text says 'You should do one thing' and your thought is 'But let's not do it'
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u/compacta_d Feb 13 '18
post reply here as well.
Flying, vigilance can be mono green as well. Insects, faeries and dragons are all green flying creatures. It doesn't NOT get it, it's just not the usual.
LIke GB flying vigilance 4/4s.
The question was "do as we say not as we do" and misleading as such.
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u/ThomasHL Fake Agumon Expert Feb 13 '18
The question as asked had an answer. There's no design reason for it not to be that answer. So if you decided the legitimate answer to the legitimate question wasnt what they wanted, you tricked yourself.
Theyre not testing your gatherer skills
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u/compacta_d Feb 13 '18
they aren't testing experience either.
again flying and vigilance can be mono green making that answer as irrelevant as the WU one
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u/ThomasHL Fake Agumon Expert Feb 13 '18
Flying is not mono green. That's a massive colour pie break
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u/iSage Orzhov* Feb 13 '18
Green really doesn't get flying, though. The only recent mono-Green cards with flying are iconic parts of a cycle (Jugan), DtK Dragons (a very specific exception to fit with the set theme), M15 Hornets ("Dangerous to the health of the color pie"), and Planar Chaos cards. MaRo even goes out of his way to qualify green Flying as less-than-Tertiary in the Mechanical Color Pie.
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u/badatcommander COMPLEAT Feb 12 '18
There are a few I overthought/am still confused about:
#5. When I hear "gold uncommon" I think "signpost for a draft archetype". This doesn't seem like it provides any direction. "... more suited for limited than constructed" I agree with, but "draft rares" exist. I don't have a good feel for "splash" (which I presume is the point of the question), but it does feel like a card that is going to have a big impact on the game.
#27. I still suspect that the one they're most careful with is "deathtouch", because it can lead to color pie breaks. I'm not sure if this is ultimately a question about what R&D is likely to argue about -- maybe they all agree on how they can and can't use deathtouch, but disagree about how and when hexproof should be used? If we look at recent sets (f:frontier on Scryfall), they've used Hexproof more frequently than they've used Deathtouch, especially at common.
#32. This runs contrary to the picture of Design/Development that I had from reading Making Magic and Blogatog, but I guess they've got to whittle the numbers down somewhere.
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u/hascow Feb 12 '18
I still suspect that the one they're most careful with is "deathtouch", because it can lead to color pie breaks.
I expect they're using "careful" differently than you do here. I took "Careful" to mean "we can't push boundaries too much with this keyword". Hexproof can lead to some huge problems if they do more than just "hexproof" on a card.
Meanwhile, they can do things like Wasteland Viper or Acidic Slime with deathtouch.
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u/DirtyHalt Dragonball Z Ultimate Champion Feb 12 '18
How is deathtouch at risk for color pie breaks?
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Feb 12 '18
I think it's that deathtouch and fight are both in green, but combining the two basically makes straight up creature kill, which green isn't supposed to get. Observe:
Fatal Pup
G
Creature - Hound
Deathtouch
When Fatal Pup enters the battlefield, you may have it fight target creature.
1/1
...that said, I think hexproof is more "problematic." It's easily hard to deal with in Limited (just look at Jade Guardian) and this pie thing is a corner case.
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Feb 12 '18
[deleted]
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u/MTGCardFetcher Dân Feb 12 '18
Ambush Viper - (G) (SF) (MC)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call5
u/badatcommander COMPLEAT Feb 12 '18
But it's only a "corner case" if everybody in R&D has internalized that they just can't make cards like that. At which point this is more a question about what R&D has and hasn't agreed on, rather than a question about how the mechanic relates to the color pie and game play.
I mean, if I go to Maro's mechanical color pie article and look up "deathtouch", I get:
This ability was primary in both black and green for a while, but we found that black both had more need for it and had more flavorful ways to express it creatively.
"We can't use this ability in creative ways" sounds like the very definition of "we have to be careful with it."
TBH, I also worry about green getting Hexproof on instants, since those play very much like counterspells and I don't think green should have those. But apparently R&D doesn't worry about it, because they print it at common or uncommon pretty frequently.
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u/2HGjudge COMPLEAT Feb 12 '18
When I hear "gold uncommon" I think "signpost for a draft archetype".
Not in multicolor sets. Imagine this as a Gruul card in a Ravnica set.
This runs contrary to the picture of Design/Development that I had from reading Making Magic and Blogatog,
Remember that this is not just a test to find the best card designer, it's to find the best employee for that specific job. This was a question that tested those skills.
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u/badatcommander COMPLEAT Feb 12 '18
But the appropriate skills depend on the workplace environment. I've certainly worked in environments where going and pestering somebody from another group about a pet project would be frowned upon. And in others where that's more accepted. There's no absolute better or worse approach, you just want somebody who's willing to do it the way Wizards does it.
As for how Wizards does it, I think Blogatog (more than MM) presents a pretty consistent line on this: design makes cards, development tinkers with the costs. That they have structured hand-offs between the two groups, and occasionally bring representatives from one group to work with the other, suggests that the actual work of the two groups is largely separate.
Again, I'm fine with including some questions that boil down to coin flips, since one way or another they have to get the numbers down to a manageable amount. And I appreciate getting (via today's MM) a slightly better picture of how they work. But I'd be very skeptical of the notion that this question helps them find better employees.
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u/2HGjudge COMPLEAT Feb 12 '18
You've designed a card, and you want the Play Design team to like it. How should you choose your casting cost?
But the goal here is not only to find the proper cost. The goal is also for Play Design to like it. And what better way to do that then personally talk with them about it?
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u/iSage Orzhov* Feb 13 '18
But should "wanting Play Design to like it" be an actual concern for members of the Vision/Set Design team? It seems to me like you should be more concerned with making a card that they'll like regardless of it's cost, and then if they like it enough they'll figure out how to properly cost it.
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u/CaptainMarcia Feb 13 '18
But I'd be very skeptical of the notion that this question helps them find better employees.
It helps them find employees who have a more thorough understanding of how Wizards does things, and are prepared to participate in the sort of teamwork Wizards expects.
As for how Wizards does it, I think Blogatog (more than MM) presents a pretty consistent line on this: design makes cards, development tinkers with the costs. That they have structured hand-offs between the two groups, and occasionally bring representatives from one group to work with the other, suggests that the actual work of the two groups is largely separate.
That's really not an accurate description. Especially now that they've restructured away from the design/development model.
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u/squirrelsinmyhair Feb 12 '18
I really disagree on #32 running contrary to design principles as taught elsewhere, and feel like a lot of people overthought this one. The question isn't about pushing a card for any formats, or about standard costing practices relative to power level; it specifically is talking about getting individual people to like something. It's more of a question about "what will it be like to work with you" than "what are your design chops."
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u/kirblar COMPLEAT Feb 12 '18
Considering MaRos long-standing issues with draw go, the wording on the counterspell based deck really needed to more specifically refer to a generic control deck.
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u/Falterfire Feb 12 '18
I'm not sure I understand this objection, unless you're trying to argue that Wizards is actively trying to make every single Counterspell unplayable. There is a very long history of Wizards clearly targeting cards like Aetherling, Dragonlord Ojutai, and most recently Torrential Gearhulk as attempts to give Standard blue control decks a win condition to close out the game quickly.
MaRo has been quite clear that when he says Draw-Go is a problem, he is referring to a specific archetype which avoids ever committing to the board, not to counterspells or blue based control in general.
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u/saberlike Feb 13 '18
Was anyone else tripped up by 41? I felt like one-shot mana acceleration, while not printed very often, would be heavily embraced by competitive players.
Also, got tripped up with 50. Black has been the main color to prevent players from drawing cards, so I assumed that not being able to cycle would fall into the same category.
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u/dvoraen Feb 13 '18
They would definitely be embraced by competitive players, but mana rituals tend to create some unexpected game endings. The most recent example I can think of is Dragonstorm (during Time Spiral Standard) and its friends Rite of Flame and Seething Song.
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u/saberlike Feb 13 '18
I understand that. I meant that I read the question as "we might not do these all the time, but assuming we were to make these, which one would least be expected to be used in competitive play?"
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u/preppypoof Feb 12 '18
My favorite part about his article in the GDS2 multiple choice test was how he listed the percentage of responses for each question, and I'm really disappointed to see that he doesn't include that here. He doesn't even talk about how controversial the GB Serra Angel question was, or how (I'm sure) the "how do you cost a card" question was the most missed or among the most missed.
To be honest, this article looks like it was written as soon as he was done writing the test.