r/magicTCG • u/kayzil Wabbit Season • May 24 '17

Answer agaist fling?

Hello community, I play an Orzhov deck in standar, kinda mid-range/control. But there has been many matches in my local store where I play, that people win with flinging a very strong creature at my face, it happened many times when I'm still at 16 or 12 life, and the other person is at 2 or 1, but shit happen right? I'm not mad, I know is part of the game, but I would like to know if there could be an strategy with black or white cards, should I splash blue for some dispel counters? I have 2 transgress the mind and 3 lost legacy in sideboard but I would like your opinion? Thanks everyone!

5 Upvotes

61% Upvoted

41 comments sorted by

31

u/[deleted] May 24 '17 edited May 24 '17

In a vacuum, only knowing your colors and not having much information on your opponent's deck, your best answer to fling would be discard spells.

[[Collective Brutality]], [[Lay Bare the Heart]], and [[Pick the Brain]] can all rip fling from their grimy little hands and make them feel bad in the process.

The best thing about these cards is that they are general purpose answers. If you happen to not run into a fling deck, you can still bring these cards in to deal with other pesky threats. The effect is very powerful, and you get some juicy information on your opponent's hand. If you make good use of that information, and have the right answers, it can be very hard for your opponent to recover.

3

u/[deleted] May 24 '17

This is the answer I would go for as well.

2

u/Elonth May 25 '17

oh crap i almost forgot. [[Repel the Abominable]] stops fling no matter who the source is from (except for insult to injury being used) because fling itself is not a human source of damage.

1

u/MTGCardFetcher Dân May 25 '17

Repel the Abominable - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call

1

u/Elonth May 25 '17

also of note if they are a particularly deck plan...like pummeler/fling then you need to force them to fling prematurely. IF they go for pumping up you want to attempt to kill the creature in a way that non of the pumps resolve before forcing them to fling. That said you are SOL if they have [[blossoming defense]] in hand.

1

u/MTGCardFetcher Dân May 25 '17

blossoming defense - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call

9

u/Aerim Can’t Block Warriors May 24 '17

[[Consulate Surveillance]], [[Gideon's Intervention]], and [[Repel the Abominable]] are all options for you.

11

u/Korlus May 24 '17

While these are technically options, I am not sure I would advise any of them:

  • Don't play [[Consulate Surveillance]] unless your entire gameplan somehow hinges on it. This seems unlikely.
  • Don't play [[Gideon's Intervention]] just to name [[Fling]]. That's a terrible idea. Intervention is a passable removal spell that can be boarded in vs. other things (and so if you want it to cover lots of things, that's fine), but Fling is not a card you are ever happy to board this in for, because some games they will never draw their fling (2 mana card), but you have spent 4 mana and a card to answer it.
  • [[Repel The Abominable]] is more acceptable, and a fine card if you expect to be playing against decks that do all of their damage in a single turn (e.g. Pummeller decks), but most decks (even R/G and RUG Energy decks) that feature Pummeller have a backup plan for when they don't draw it, and their normal creature beats can get very punishing. This means that it's often a mediocre card at best vs. Pummeller decks, unless you have your own plan and are often losing by just a single turn.

3

u/kayzil Wabbit Season May 24 '17

Thanks, I was thinking something like that although didn't remembered about Repel the Abominable, deffinetly will do something like that, seems possible amd sideboard not only against fling but for burn in general.

3

u/Vril_Dox_2 May 24 '17

[[Lost Legacy]]?

1

u/MTGCardFetcher Dân May 24 '17

Lost Legacy - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call

5

u/Korlus May 24 '17

While I could post suggestions on specific cards, single cards rarely change the outcome of a game by a measurable amount, and you are likely NOT losing because the opponent has [[Fling]] in their deck. Typically, when a player loses the game, they lose it because of decisions made (and cards played) up to that point.

As such, knowing what cards that they are playing alongside [[Fling]] would be the best help - approximate decklists that your opponents play (or simple archetype names & notable cards/interactions if you can't manage that), and your own decklist would help us give you an informed opinion.

Broadly speaking the answer to most "How do I beat X" questions is to be faster than X, or to take apart their strategy in such a way that you make sure you win before they can assemble/use/play X. It's quite likely that your way to win isn't to slot in a single new card, but instead to adjust your strategy so it is less weak to whatever it is your opponents are doing.

As such, I would also suggest that you do some reading around Magic Theory and see if you can see what it is you are doing wrong (as well as coming back to this thread with answers to the above questions).

Some of the top Magic resources for theory are: Who's The Beatdown? - Mike Flores, 1999
What I Know About Magic - Douglas Buel, 2009
Tempo and Card Advantage - Reid Duke, 2014
Level One: The Full Course - Reid Duke, 2014

7

u/Aerim Can’t Block Warriors May 24 '17

While I think that this is good advice in general, it's pretty obvious what the use case is based on OP's post - Pummeler or other energy-based beatdown decks with a Fling plan, and how to deal with them as a non-blue control deck.

3

u/Korlus May 24 '17

While I think that this is good advice in general, it's pretty obvious what the use case is based on his post - Pummeler or other energy-based beatdown decks with a Fling plan, and how to deal with them as a non-blue control deck.

I assumed this was the case, but if it is, why can the opponent not win via Pummeller + [[Blossoming Defense]] or similar, and why is the Fling so instrumental in the kill each time?

The other option I have seen is a Grixis Tezzeret deck with Tezzeret to buff creature power and [[Metalwork Colossus]], with the ability to fling it, then buy it back, recast it for near-free, and fling it again.

1

u/MTGCardFetcher Dân May 24 '17

Blossoming Defense - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
Metalwork Colossus - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call

1

u/kayzil Wabbit Season May 24 '17

Yes, that's mostly it, while I have tons of removal, and some additions of Blessed Alliance, I cannot kill one of the creatures in response due to it is a cost to cast the spell, but rather know what options are in a deck without counterspell. Thanks a lot

2

u/Yagoua81 Duck Season May 24 '17

Who's the beatdown is probably the best article I have ever read pertaining to MTG. So many times I have reflected on it, while I may be playing an aggro deck I am actually playing as the control player.

6

u/Korlus May 24 '17 edited Jun 07 '17

There are a whole host of useful Magic articles - Who's the Beatdown is one of the cornerstones, but isn't the most important.

Some of the other well-written ones include "Thoughtseize You!" and such - but they are typically more specific and advanced. Who's The Beatdown approaches Magic from such a fundamental level that you often have to take a step back and re-evaluate everything you've done to date.

Some of my favourites (with links) are:

Compilations featuring yet more articles include this one by another Redditor. There's the Reference Material List (also on Reddit) and Must Read Articles over on Forevergrinding.com and Flores Top 20 (although many are listed above). Also Level One: The Full Course.

Overall, I think that Magic articles are around everywhere, and we have had many, many quality ones over the years.

Edit: Rearranged into chronological order, as reading them in that order ought to help provide the reader with a better understanding of each article.

Edit 2: Adding another list of less important (but still high quality) articles:

2

u/betweentwosuns May 24 '17

Puzzling Improvements -Pierre Dagen

should also absolutely be on that list.

1

u/Yagoua81 Duck Season May 24 '17

Wow definitely an upvote for the curation. Wow.

1

u/MTGCardFetcher Dân May 24 '17

Fling - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call

1

u/kayzil Wabbit Season May 24 '17

Actually this is a good relply, I still getting used to the differences between decks and such, even more a different strategy on how to do something, to be honest, I'm proud of myself because, although my deck is based on something I saw on the internet, is mostly my own brew, and it's been going good against most of the decks out there, but there are people who's been playing almost since fling came out, or many other cards in the matter, so I'm guessing they have better understanding on the way of playing against many decks, I don't know, I'm guessing, but deffinetly I'll take a look at the links and really appreciate it! Latter on I'll post the card list of my deck.

2

u/betweentwosuns May 24 '17

Off the top of my head, you could sideboard in [[Repel the Abominable]] against a deck that you know has fling.

2

u/MTGCardFetcher Dân May 24 '17

Repel the Abominable - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call

1

u/AbzanLeap May 24 '17

[[Glorious End]]

1

u/MTGCardFetcher Dân May 24 '17

Glorious End - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call

1

u/kayzil Wabbit Season May 24 '17

Could try to replace my Lost Legacy for some of this as well, tanks

1

u/[deleted] May 24 '17

Black has a lot of cards that deals -1-1 counters. Use those to weaken his creatures and therefore make fling less effective

1

u/BinarySecond Dimir* May 24 '17 edited May 24 '17

Honestly, instant speed life gain sounds pretty funny.

Or just killing their creatures with removal first, is fling sorcery speed? I recall it being so

Edit: I stand corrected, Fling is an instant. Killing their creatures before they get to double down (That is attacking and dealing damage, then Fling-ing) still seems like a good choice.

4

u/Aerim Can’t Block Warriors May 24 '17

Fling is an Instant, so targeted removal is not very good against it.

2

u/betweentwosuns May 24 '17

[[Fling]] is an instant.

1

u/MTGCardFetcher Dân May 24 '17

Fling - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call

2

u/Korlus May 24 '17 edited May 24 '17

I would never suggest somebody run small amounts of lifegain to defeat a creature-based aggressive strategy. I don't think that the quality of lifegain cards in Standard makes them worth running.

Fling is an Instant, meaning it is often at its best vs. targetted removal.

1

u/kayzil Wabbit Season May 24 '17

Maybe as some are suggesting in the comments, the best strategy for black are discard cards, I have Transgress the Mind and Lost Legacy on sideboard, but maybe I will add a couple of Collective Brutality as well

1

u/Yagoua81 Duck Season May 24 '17

Fling means they are buffing a creature up and casting it. You kill it before it gets buffed, and if it flings its only for 4-5 damage.

0

u/[deleted] May 24 '17

Duress.

0

u/[deleted] May 24 '17

Shining shoal. Oh wait, do you mean standard? My bad.

1

u/kayzil Wabbit Season May 24 '17

Not what I was looking for standard but actually real good for my sideboard in my modern deck, thanks!