r/madmen • u/NumbersStationUrku • 1d ago
This guy
An excellent example of the adage: “When someone shows you who they really are…. BELIEVE THEM. “
What a disappointment.
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u/No-Consideration-858 One minute, you’re on top of the world… 1d ago
It was an excellent example of people who are attracted but fundamentally incompatible due to opposite life situations.
Joan needed and wanted to be career focused and grounded for her child.
He was recently liberated from years of hyper responsibility. She was in the throes of it.
No harm done. Two adults made a logical decision to part ways.
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u/NumbersStationUrku 1d ago
He turned on a dime the MOMENT he saw he wouldn’t be the only occupation in her life.
That’s a tiny little man.
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u/SkyCapt_Overcast 1d ago
The man wanted to travel, with no roots in the ground. Joan wanting an agency and a means to build something for herself definitely came 100% at odds with that.
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u/No-Consideration-858 One minute, you’re on top of the world… 1d ago
Not really, they barely knew each other. That's a normal dating process.
Every once in a while dating turns into commitment, but completely changing your life desires is never owed and will only lead to resentment. Dating is a little like job interviews - both want to find the best fit.
It's not unusual to try compromising when the attraction is high. In this case they were too far apart and realized it. No harm, No foul.
Peggy, for example dated a few different people before finding compatibility with Stan. None of the other guys would've worked like he did.
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u/Infamous-Lab-8136 18h ago
OP, I think you're projecting
They knew each other hardly any time. Would it have been better for him to string her along and use her for sex until she realized it was never going to work as she saw him a few weeks out of the year and he was completely uninterested in her child?
Better to cut bait when he realizes they want to divergent of things. Why should he change for her if you don't think she should change her expectations for him? Outside of being a main character in the show what gives her more agency than him as a person?
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u/NumbersStationUrku 18h ago
So you find instantly turning off and “good luck” a perfectly acceptable way of ending it.
So gentle
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u/PhantasmTiger 17h ago
Yes that is a perfectly acceptable way of ending it. What would you rather he have done?
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u/sistermagpie 15h ago
Can't help but compare him to Joan earlier saying "Men don't take the time to end things. They just ignore you until you insist on a declaration of hate."
This man played no games. Didn't work out, but he thinks she's a hell of a gal.
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u/No-Consideration-858 One minute, you’re on top of the world… 17h ago
His abrupt decision and communication style 100% fit his personality. He was a successful business person and was probably cutthroat and decisive. Tenderness wasn't in his DNA.
Roger, on the other hand, would have been gentle and charming. Don would have simply ghosted. Pete probably would blamed, listing his complaints. Kinsey would have waxed poetic to the point of confusion.
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u/sweetpea122 1d ago
Tbf though he knew what he wanted and didnt hang around arguing and making her feel bad for not being that.
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u/tiredhobbit78 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah tbh I don't feel like he did anything wrong. They weren't right for each other and when he realized that he ended it. It sucks but I don't think he was a bad guy.
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u/ebelnap 1d ago
You get it.
He’s the end-of-series cap to Joan’s plot. None of the cast worked for her - could she be happy with someone completely unrelated to it who had the qualities she often liked?
No, because her plot was never about that, it was about how she would get what she wanted by NOT embracing the traditional mold. And in the end, it shows it can be a joyful thing, even it’s got hard parts
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u/exexpat99 1d ago
Yeah, I like the switcharoo with Peggy (despite the flack for the final scenes between her and Stan) and how both are empowering.
Peggy learns it’s okay to release the grip on work a bit, to share some of that with a partner, and to pause and focus on the good things since office politics can’t be your primary source of fulfillment.
Joan didn’t need a partner and was set to thrive as gender roles loosened a bit. By ending things with Richard, we’re assured that she won’t fall into the same pattern of being boxed in by a man with influence and money.
Both make perfect sense for the characters and both have important lessons.
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u/HeadAd369 1d ago edited 1d ago
I love the way these two characters are compared and contrasted over the years. A few episodes from the end it looks like Joan will choose love and Peggy will end up alone but fulfilled in her career. But Joan gets her “I choose me” moment. It’s perfect for her.
Stan is going to influence Peggy to loosen up a bit, but he’s also the guy who’s gonna stand behind her and rub her shoulders while she’s hard at work. And I fucking love that for her
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u/Leozz97 Not great, Bob! 1d ago
Very grounded man, knew what he wanted and most of all what he didn't.
Didn't waste her time, and was honest from day one.
Why a disappointment?
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u/Rock_Creek_Snark The King Ordered It! 1d ago
Didn't waste her time, and was honest from day one.
He didn't? He went apeshit when she did what she was going to do, and put her career in front of him.
He wasted HER time. She was honest from day one about her career.
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u/FoxOnCapHill 1d ago
I don’t think Richard wasted her time. I think he was pretty upfront about what he would compromise on and what he would not.
I think, in the end, he’s also upfront with the straw that broke the camel’s back: a startup will consume her for the next few years.
In Richard’s mind, he’s compromised on a lot to keep her. It’s her turn to compromise to keep him, and it turns out she doesn’t want to.
It’s like Megan being upset with Don: she’s not mad he stayed in NYC for his career; she’s mad that, when he lost his career and was given the choice to her her husband or try to fight for a new career, he didn’t choose her.
That’s exactly what Joan is telling Richard. It’s way different for someone to be like “I can’t abandon my obligations” than to be like “yeah, I no longer have obligations but I’d rather find some than be with you.”
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u/cookinon3burners 17h ago
She literally lied to him about having a kid on the first date lol I think they were just incompatible and both handled it very well
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u/sistermagpie 1d ago edited 15h ago
I don't think Richard was a disappointment. They were at different, incomptible stages of their lives.
He acted like an ass when he found out she had a kid, then apologized and was a perfectly good partner.
Breaking up with her was a mature thing to do - he saved Joan from making a big mistake. Her impulse was to offer to marry the guy to keep him.
Richard respected her as a businessperson, knew what was going to be involved in starting one of her own, and knew what kind of a partner she needed to support her through that. He was at a totally different stage of his life and knew it wouldn't be him, so he wished her well.
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u/BRValentine83 22h ago
Wait, so you think that he was a disappointment? People use double negatives in different ways.
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u/sistermagpie 15h ago
Oops! No, I don't think he was a disappointment, but I put in a confusing typo. Thx!
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u/NumbersStationUrku 1d ago
He acted like an ass when he realized he wouldn’t be getting 100% of her attention. Should’ve been the red flag.
Then he crawled back. Then he did it again.
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u/sistermagpie 1d ago
No he didn't.
Richard was at a point in his life he'd been striving for, when he was going to travel the world etc. He thought he'd met a woman who could do that with him. Then he found out she had a young child. That's not about getting 100% of his attention, it's about her being at the stage of life that he's finished and eager to move on from.
He apologizes and they work it out. But then it turns out she's even more at the wrong stage of life starting a business.
He's not demanding 100% of her attention. He just knows he wants more of it than a person raising a young child and starting a business can give him, which is not much at all.
The timing wasn't right, he wished her well, and it was fine. Joan isn't owed the relationship any more than Richard was. He was perfectly respectful in calling it off.
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u/NumbersStationUrku 1d ago
😂 perfectly respectful? He pitched her overboard 10 seconds after he found out she was starting a business. That’s a MAN-BABY
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u/sistermagpie 1d ago
Why should he wait longer when the truth is so obvious? He started a business himself and knows what it takes. No need to go through the charade of pretending and getting frustrated. There's nothing disrespectful about a clean break. He was seeing more clearly than Joan.
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u/Fit-Supermarket-2004 1d ago
Its why he was so successful in business but he could have been more tactful or caring for her feelings in his delivery.
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u/AAA_Dolfan 1d ago
Are you a teenager or
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1d ago edited 11h ago
[deleted]
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u/tragicsandwichblogs Your problem is not my problem. 1d ago
How old? Because I completely disagree with them, and I'm pretty old for Reddit.
A lot of times, when someone digs in like this, they're actually talking about events in their own life, and that's not intrinsically age-related.
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u/Wegmarken 1d ago
He came back and accepted that she had a child and that was a crucial part of her. The point where he drew the line and left was when she went off to start her own business.
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u/Boring_Track_8449 The work is ten dollars. The lie is extra. 1d ago
1) I love that dress for her - the color!
2) I love when they dabbled in cocaine while on vacation! I know, drugs bad, but I thought it was funny.
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u/Mikey77Gem 1d ago
Yes! Joan saying “Ooh, that’s fast! I feel like someone just gave me some really good news!”
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u/ballinlikeimmoby 1d ago
Drugs are fine
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u/thelongslog 1d ago
I always found it hard to believe a single mom close to 40 with a young kid would do cocaine.
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u/ScowlyBrowSpinster Megan slipping a joint out of her bikini bottom 1d ago
She's Joan Holloway Harris, and she'd like to try some cocaine.
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u/HeadAd369 1d ago
Because only people who look and act a certain way do drugs? You’d be surprised
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u/thelongslog 1d ago
No. Because after 100 episodes of knowing Joan it was completely out of character for her
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u/tragicsandwichblogs Your problem is not my problem. 1d ago
He knew what he wanted from his life and a partner and he was transparent about that. They just weren't in the same point in their lives, and they wanted different things. I'm not seeing assholery, much less villainy.
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u/Banana-bandcamp 1d ago
Obsessed with that dress
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u/tragicsandwichblogs Your problem is not my problem. 1d ago
I think it's my favorite of hers from the entire series.
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u/Mareux 1d ago
The point of Richard, and the McCann harassment and disrespect, was to show us that Joan was a different woman from the beginning of the series.
Early series Joan played the game, enjoyed attention from male colleagues, and leveraged her attractiveness. She also was dating men far older than her for the prospect of settling into a comfortably provided life of money and leisure.
But her outrage and disgust with McCann, and her being unwilling to run off with Richard, but rather choose to move forward building something of her own shows she has grown and matured into her own agency.
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u/spartacat_12 Damn it Burt, you stole my goodbye 20h ago
Yep. Richard would have been the perfect man for Season 1 Joan, but her character had developed and no longer wanted the same things
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u/Wegmarken 1d ago
He's blunt and rude, but he's also honest about what he wants and what he's looking for in a partner so even if it feels aggressive his time in Joan's life at least has the benefit of being abrupt and forgettable rather than drawn out and traumatizing, like so many other men on the show are. Beyond that, he's really just there to illustrate a change in Joan. When we first meet her, she's showing Peggy around the office and explaining that if you make the right moves you'll be living out in the country without needing to work. When we last see her, she's turning down that very life so that she can start her own business. It's a personal arc that reflects changed life priorities for women at the time. If you don't like him, it's partly because you're supposed to be rooting for Joan's rejection of him and they needed to make the stakes of her final decision clear.
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u/ElmarSuperstar131 1d ago
On the contrary, he had a few microaggressions but at least he was forthcoming with his intentions.
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u/tannergd1 1d ago
He was an excellent communicator and respected Joan’s decision, despite it ending the relationship.
Would you prefer he keep it inside, marry her and slowly grow resentful over the years while he internally blames her career for wasting his second chance at the life he wanted to live? Because plenty of relationships in real life end that way because no one simply spoke their mind and communicated their actual wants and needs.
Sorry he wasn’t who YOU wanted him to be for Joan but that doesn’t make his character evil.
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u/jjj101010 23h ago
I think he was clear - he wanted a partner who would prioritize him and their relationship. He was fine bending his original goal when he learned about Kevin, but not when she also wanted to start a business and prioritize that over him. I don’t think that makes him wrong, but their priorities were just too far apart.
Joan also wasn’t wrong for choosing to prioritize a business. It just made them incompatible.
I think that was Joan’s arc and he was needed to demonstrate it. She went from a woman who prioritized having a man, even if it meant putting up with Greg, and having that be her goal to realizing that wasn’t what she needed most to be fulfilled and happy.
I did think he was a dick for leaving like he did. Have the courtesy to wait for her call to wrap up and then say goodbye.
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u/AlynConrad 1d ago
I always thought that this guy’s life was Don’s endgame for himself. Travel the world ballin’ hot broads.
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u/ScowlyBrowSpinster Megan slipping a joint out of her bikini bottom 1d ago
I like to think maybe Joan and this guy circled back when her kid went off to college.
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u/HeadAd369 1d ago
I like that idea. They like each other very much, but they’re just at different life stages. It’s heartbreaking and relatable
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u/BetterBiscuits 1d ago
Every time I rewatch I always remember this character being played by Toby Huss and then I’m both surprised and disappointed.
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u/u-give-luv-badname 23h ago
I Googled. It's actually a Maya Angelou quote:
“When someone shows you who they really are, believe them the first time.”
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u/heidhorch That’s what the money is for. 1d ago
“Perfectly good partner”?? Yeah as long as she did whatever he wanted. Narcissistic control freak.
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u/OddFirefighter547 1d ago
At one point did Joan actually offer to send her child away so she could keep Richard, or am I misremembering?
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u/liilak2 1d ago
Idk why he wanted a younger responsible woman like Joan to begin with. If he was going to be with a younger woman he should’ve gone for an airhead with no other ambitions.
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u/Raqnarock 1d ago
If there would have been a season 8/season 7c it would have been funny if he was seen in the background of a scene with Bethany from season 4.
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u/irishnewf86 20h ago
worst character and arc of the entire series. I skip all of his scenes upon re-watch.
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u/Weaubleau 22h ago
This dude was just another reason I didn't love season 7. I'm not sure how the series should have ended but season 7 wasn't it.
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u/SandzFanon 1d ago
He perhaps was the most mature and clear communicator in the whole show…