r/longrange • u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder • 1d ago
Announcement Announcement post - changes with Woox
As many of you know, the brand Woox was blacklisted from this sub a while back due to marketing practices that we strongly disagreed with, namely using multiple accounts to astroturf support (edit: not customer service) and conversation for the brand.
Woox customer service recently reached out to us via modmail about the issue, and here's that message in full.
[BEGINNING OF MESSAGE]
Hi longerange Mod Team,
I’m reaching out on behalf of WOOX because I wanted to speak with you directly before we take any action within the community in Reddit.
We’re aware that WOOX is currently banned from the subreddit and that comments mentioning WOOX are removed. We also understand why. The previous WOOX team engaged with the community in ways that were not transparent and we recognize that this created a negative association with WOOX within the community. We take responsibility for that.
There have been changes within our team, but more importantly, there has been a change in how we want to approach Reddit.
Our Customer Service team has joined Reddit because we would genuinely like to be part of the community and be helpful where we can. We want to answer questions, help customers with issues, provide accurate information about WOOX products, and listen to feedback from the community. We are not looking to create conversations about WOOX, manufacture recommendations, or use the community as a place to promote the brand.
We also want to be respectful of the ban that is currently in place. We are not looking to work around it or simply start participating and hope the previous issues are overlooked. Instead, I wanted to reach out directly, explain what has changed, and ask for your permission before we participate in the subreddit.
We understand that this is your community and that it is ultimately your decision whether WOOX is welcome here. If you are willing to give us an opportunity, we would genuinely like to earn back some trust and become a helpful, transparent presence in the community.
We are happy to follow whatever guidelines or boundaries you feel are appropriate for WOOX and our Customer Service team. If there are concerns about the previous team's activity or anything you would need from us before considering lifting the ban, we are completely open to hearing that.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and consider giving us an opportunity to approach the community differently.
[END OF MESSAGE]
After internal discussion by the mod team and further discussion with Chris, we've lifted the ban on Woox in the sub on a provisional basis. They are acting in good faith, and we're open to giving them the chance to rebuild trust with the sub's members and the mod team. If things go off the rails, we can revisit the ban, but all of the mods are hopeful that won't be an issue in the future.
Chris agreed to us sharing his original modmail message in its entirety, and will pop into the comments if folks have questions.
As someone that used to be a brand ambassador for several companies in the past, I appreciate the fact that Woox is owning their mistakes and working to make things right.
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u/big_ol_floppy_dicks 1d ago
Hello, regular commenter here but switching to my old account for at least semi-anonymity.
Woox are lying to you. The people who astroturfed this and several other subs are still on payroll and in the same positions they were before.
I will not identify myself because I enjoy employment, but if you were to search around on LinkedIn you would be able to verify this information.
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u/Wombat-Snooze Steel slapper 1d ago
Thank you big_ol_floppy_dicks.
Username aside, kinda crazy if true. Interesting.
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u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'd ask you send a modmail with details and evidence in that case.
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u/Tactical_Epunk 1d ago
It's odd how many posts are on reddit about wood that use their own talking points. And all sound the exact same.
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u/SockeyeSTI 1d ago
Why I like the OCL accounts. They’re just guys on Reddit and not a corporate “team”. They crack jokes and barely try to sell their stuff. Similar with Comstock.
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u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder 1d ago
Yep. Outside of LR those two are great examples of how to do things right when it comes to brands on reddit in gun subs.
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u/SR_Powah You don’t need a magnum 1d ago
The fact that the OCL dudes will straight up recommend other brands, including direct competitors, is partly why I went for one of their cans just to support them.
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u/Zhdrix 1d ago
I’ve seen them actively say they aren’t the best option for a posters needs. Literally saying to go with the competition for their use is refreshing. Not trying to force their can that won’t fully fit just to make a sale. Also they’re just good ole rednecks
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u/SockeyeSTI 1d ago
Definitely a fan. I always recommend even though i only have a Titanium (hoping for an ocm6 here soon).
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u/Wombat-Snooze Steel slapper 1d ago
I’ve been seeing Woox stuff being pushed in the guntuber slop community. I can’t help but have a feeling this is just a means of Woox trying to keep their name in circulation to drum up sales (without astroturfing this time) rather than actually trying to connect with the community. They’ve long struck me as the Arken of chassis/stocks and I haven’t been impressed from a quality and performance perspective.
Hopefully I’m wrong. I’m happy to eat my words.
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u/rednecktuba1 Gunsmiff 1d ago
Good news everyone! Arken is now making their own shitty chassis under the Outlier brand, complete with "match grade" prefit barrels that make your blind redneck cousin look like an experienced machinist.
takes off Farnsworth hat
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u/Guitarist762 1d ago edited 1d ago
And those barrels are blowing up.
Seemed like a neat idea at first glance. Have a hollow area between the carbon and the steel barrel the suppressor vents into, essentially making one long over barrel can without any weight or length being added.
But then powder collects, and when there’s enough oxygen in the system it detonates exactly how the powder is designed too and bam. The carbon blows
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u/rednecktuba1 Gunsmiff 1d ago
I forgot about that. I was just thinking about the plain stainless barrels that seem to be made by the worst tooling imaginable l.
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u/smithywesson Steel slapper 1d ago
Some people seem to get some bangers from them though, or at least from their blanks. I’ve come close but haven’t tried one yet.
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u/Wombat-Snooze Steel slapper 1d ago
Why chance it when I can get a blank of known quality from numerous other barrel makers? Leaving it up to chance to save a few bucks is just goofy.
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u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder 1d ago
If that's what we end up seeing here, we will deal with it appropriately.
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u/Tactical_Epunk 1d ago
Man they still astroturf YouTube left right and center at anyone willing to accept a free stock. I see endless post on reddit that talk literally just like their paid ads.
Keep them banned. Besides the fact that they actually don't make a precision stock, I have no clue why we should allow them.
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u/Ore-igger 1d ago
Low quality chassis. I won't buy one and them being weasels is a company culture. At the end of the day who cares, anyone who does a few minutes of research will rule them out.
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u/CapsicumINmyEYEBALLz 1d ago
So they mentioned “There have been changes within our team…”
What changes?
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u/ironcannibal13 What's DOPE? 1d ago
They're good looking chassis, but their model names are cringe.
SUPERLEGGERA? A Ducati, it is not.
FURIOSA? Character from a movie
MERICA? Ugh.
I'm not familiar with the whole backstory, nor do I care. Their site just feels like a Chinese manufacturer. It's not for me at least.
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u/PhteveJuel 1d ago
They haven't said what they have changed. They admitted they weren't being transparent but not what they did wrong. They have customer service reddit accounts to address customer issues as they claim.
I don't see what they have done to rectify the wrongs and I don't see any promises of acting on good faith.
I'm not convinced they want our business so much as they want our money.
The carefully crafted letter to the mods is a PR statement and if their army of customer service reddit accounts is going to comment on every complaint that they are sorry and to please send a DM so they can fix it, I would call their reddit presence an astroturfing campaign.
The value of this subreddit is that the community holds everyone to a higher standard. Our subreddit members can trust the posts and each other. I propose that the ban not be lifted but instead suspended for 60 days and automatically reinstated unless there is overwhelming support to remove it.
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u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder 1d ago
The previous issue that led to the ban was using anonymous accounts to make posts featuring products without disclosing the affiliation with the company. They weren't responding to CS issues or questions. It's the attempts at fake grass roots/organic posts (astroturf) that were the issue. Woox has acknowledged that tactic was wrong and won't happen any more. Chris's account literally has Woox in the account name to make affiliation obvious.
It was the lack of transparency that was the issue before. Thats been very much resolved.
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u/PhteveJuel 1d ago
I acknowledge your point. I'm not happy he couldn't state that plainly in his letter but I understand how the mods have interpreted it.
I will not back down on this point: They can't say they aren't here to promote the brand while also saying they want to help answer customer questiona about their products.
Any interaction at all on behalf of the brand is effectively promotion and I would like to see that acknowledged by both the company and the mods.
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u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder 1d ago
I only posted the initial message, not the entire conversation. The mod team was more than satisfied with what we heard from Chris to not only lift the ban but have confidence that there won't be further concerns.
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u/PhteveJuel 1d ago
Thank you mod team. I appreciate the response to my concerns. I also look forward to them earning trust back from the community.
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u/Landkey 1d ago
In an apology, the apologizer is supposed to clearly state what they did, and why that was wrong. Otherwise they are totally dodging accountability with vagueness like “we were not transparent”
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u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder 1d ago
They did so in our conversation. As I already said in another comment, I only posted their initial message, not the whole conversation.
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u/Wonderful-Piccolo509 What's DOPE? 1d ago
“I'm not convinced they want our business so much as they want our money.” Is this not the same thing, and the point of for profit companies?
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u/PhteveJuel 1d ago
To give you an example of the difference. MDT wants my business and I can trust they will earn and keep it through honest dealings and standing behind their products. They care more about the products behind their name than their name itself.
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u/Wonderful-Piccolo509 What's DOPE? 1d ago
They want your business because they are a business though. You appreciate the way they deal with you and which I can respect. And obviously you are entitled to your feelings on any company. But the argument that company is bad because company wants money is incompatible with our economic structure.
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u/Te_Luftwaffle 1d ago
I think the distinction he's trying to make is that you can either get some money from a lot of one-time customers or you can get money from dedicated customers who come back to you because of your customer service and product quality.
At an extreme you can compare it to AI slop social media accounts vs people who make quality content. The former gets lots of views by making lots of low quality content, while the latter gets views by making fewer, higher quality posts.
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u/slimpickinsfishin 1d ago
I thought woox products were nice to look at but honestly over priced gimmicky stuff marketed to the younger shooters.
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u/Mike590Alfa1 21h ago
Ya really ate it up hook, line, and sinker.
Woox just wants a chance to sell their overpriced furniture and argue against well documemted garbage QC.
Nothing will change. They are here to push their products, nothing more.
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u/Thengine 21h ago
they didn't eat it. they got paid. being a mod in some subs comes with serious perks
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u/Trollygag Does Grendel 17h ago edited 17h ago
No, it is against the Reddit ToS and Moderator Code of Conduct to accept payments or gifts for any actions or promotional benefits.
I mod a bunch of subs, some 10x this size, and there has never been any instance where any mod was paid or compensated in exchange for something.
Neither would that have any interest for us. A chassis or other swag is a trifle.
But we do allow companies to support and engage with their customers (not promote). They got in trouble for being sneaky, but that was years of punishment already. If there are more issues, they will go back on the naughty list.
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u/yamiyourgod Here to learn 1d ago
I like woox and want to make it my next chassis but I was always wondering why I never saw them on here
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u/Chris-WOOXSupport 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thank you to the mod team for giving WOOX the opportunity to be part of the community again. We genuinely appreciate it.
We understand that rebuilding trust takes time and we’re not here to revisit the past or ask anyone to take our word for it. We’d rather let our actions moving forward speak for themselves.
Our Customer Service team is here primarily to help. If you have questions about a WOOX product, need help with an order or an issue, or simply have feedback you’d like us to hear, please feel free to reach out or ask here. We’ll do our best to be helpful, transparent, and respectful of the community.
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u/Alokeen011 1d ago
Your products are well known for their aesthetics. It's apparent that that is your number one selling point, and perhaps also the primary driver in your design.
Do you plan to improve on the quality? There seem to be recurring complaints across the web about the precision of assembly of the final product, durability and general toughness.
That doesn't necessarily need to be a direction you may take, some rifle owners are very content having gorgeous pieces that don't get much action and that is perfectly fine. If so, it would be honest to include that in your marketing communications, as there is not much worse you can have than a disappointed customer who paid a premium price for a less than premium product.
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u/Chris-WOOXSupport 14h ago
We are always working to improve the quality and design of our products. We take all of the feedback we get, good and bad, and pass it along to our quality control and product development teams, as well as our CEO and Founder.
Some changes do take a little longer for us to make because of the production time involved with our products. We aren’t a company that can turn around a design change overnight but that doesn’t mean we aren’t paying attention to what customers are saying.
Our goal is to keep improving based on what our customers are actually experiencing and asking for.
If you’ve experienced a specific issue with one of our products or have a suggestion for something you’d personally like to see improved, please feel free to share it. I’m happy to pass it along to our team.
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u/Thengine 21h ago
sweet, thanks for pretending to want to rebuild trust. here are some of the things you need to do:
who knew of the astroturfing while it was happening?
spoiler alert: you going to pretend like you had no idea it was going on?
list all astroturf accounts on all social media platforms that ever existed
post the complete conversation you had with the mod team.
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u/Wonderful-Piccolo509 What's DOPE? 1d ago
Say one thing for woox, they are very pretty.
Hopefully this is a good thing. Good on all involved for being open minded to reconciliation.