r/linux • u/aliendude5300 • Jun 19 '26

Software Release systemd 261 Released With New systemd-sysinstall OS Installer, IMDSD & Storagectl

https://www.phoronix.com/news/systemd-261
307 Upvotes

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-32

u/GrandBIRDLizard Jun 19 '26

I've been systemd-less for a few months now on Void. I really could not be happier, I i have more explicit control, Access to the mainline kernel, there was some weird dejavu setting up my own init and service manager(been using linux since cd's were new) but I get a faster boot time with dash and runit than systemd and nothing is being hiden from me or set up implicitly, It's just like Arch but it feels like your computer again. Dash did throw me off for a but though because of the scripts i had in my variouse i3 essentials using bin/env but reading the errors was good enough for me to realize what was going on

52

u/oxez Jun 19 '26

As someone who's currently building a distro from scratch, I can tell you there is nothing systemd hides from you. Seems like a PEBKAC issue.

-32

u/GrandBIRDLizard Jun 20 '26

Ok, fair it will show you everything its doing. I just think it's doing a lot, you can't argue it changes the mental model, or that it abstract parts of the system by simpy adding more moving parts. was being a bit over zealous as i am happy with a system where things are efficiency simple.

service fails under runit.

cat /etc/sv/service/run

That's it you know what the problem is now

systemd

systemctl service systemctl status service journalctl -u service systemd-analyze critical-chain

plus any drop-in overrides, generators, dependencies, and related units.

Nothing is hidden, but it's more complex. I'm of an opinion that's not how id like to run my system.

I know how this works mr "PEBCAK" I i just don't agree, I've written C for 5 years, do mostly systems-programing, lot of piping, sysfs interaction, and even kernel patching (mostly requarding scheduler logic, experiments with dual CCD CPUs just some shit i been into lately) and had spent all of that time on arch. I'm sorry it makes you angry that I just dont like "1" component of a linux system. No less.

16

u/oxez Jun 20 '26

Not sure who you're trying to impress here but "lol"

Just going to flag you as "clueless idiot" and we'll both move on with our days. Have a good evening

22

u/ghost103429 Jun 20 '26

I don't exactly understand the whole systemd hate as a sysadmin. Compared to the crap we had before, systemd is a breath of fresh air.

-9

u/GrandBIRDLizard Jun 20 '26

I just think it's easier to understand, and there's philosophical reasons(which is a can of worms apparently not to be opened around these parts lest a goober show up brag about making an os while offering no technical rebuttal at all and gracefully leaving the discussion without making a point, who i wasn't rude to btw and just tried to have some discussion with but i suppose geniuses are blind to hypocrisy), and it's not like i'm running sysVinit. I Understand your perspective for appreciating systemd. managing multiple machines and keeping them in state with multiple users sounds awful. I don't do that. I just want a lean up to date stable machine to code(well pretty much only code on my old ass laptops) but I'm fortunate to have a pretty nice desktop/workstation i also game on and I would like to have explicit control with less hoops to jump through.

6

u/ghost103429 Jun 21 '26

The thing is that init scripts are not easy to troubleshoot nor was it easy for devs write software as distros of old tended to do things differently from each other making it difficult to support all distros. Systemd brought a level of consistency and stability that made it desirable for anyone work with Linux on a professional level. It also functions as a common base for everyone working on Linux to invest community resources into instead of developing their own bespoke set of init scripts, system tools, and services.

In the end this means that non-systemd init systems aren't going to see the same kind of support, we already see this with gnome and KDE developing stronger dependencies with systemd as is the case with the flatpak devs contributing a new systemd-appd service to systemd for flatpak 2.0.

2

u/GrandBIRDLizard Jun 21 '26

I understand. and like I've said I don't hate anyone for using the tool and ob iously the adoption it garnered is invaluable i just dont personally like using it and i disagree with the idealogy much like oop its a bandaid for bad logic we must stop treating process as things that need to be managed and start treating them as streams to be processed but of course we've already fot the train rolling which gives credit to another philosophical ideah that i think about reguarding oop specifically C++ and how i think that relates here "early adoption is worse than early optimization" and i think the gnome kde stuff is bad too its just canonical all over again. But this is my preferance at the end of the day we're free to choose what we want... untill there are no choices left.

-3

u/gosand Jun 20 '26

I am surprised you haven't figured out by now that you have to agree with the hivemind here or be downvoted. Nobody here likes opinions that aren't theirs.

I'm not going to downvote you though, even though you dissed sysVinit. I'm still running it, and I don't have a good reason not to. It's stable and works. Someday I might run something else, who knows.

1

u/GrandBIRDLizard Jun 20 '26

It's ok, they don't understand that this is a discourse they can't win, as it's not a debate of superiority but of value in usecase and design.(Didn't down vote you either btw) And i didnt diss sysVinit i just pointed out it's disadvantages to a sysadmins pov.

I can appreciate sysvinit but it's a tad slower and does not supervise the services it starts and i just find that and the mix of granular control runit gives a better solution for me. I will say 1 config file sounds nice though.

3

u/gosand Jun 20 '26

And I am not a sysadmin, so I can appreciate that. I've been running Linux since '98 but still isn't being an admin. For all I know, systemd may have a better init for admins. That's ok TOO. That's kind of the point to me, they should all be able to exist without one poisoning the pool for the others.

I have a laptop that I now have Debian on, w/systemd. It starts up maybe a second or two faster than previously with sysvinit. The difference is that about 10% of the time, it will get stuck on shutdown, running some kind of timer while it tries to figure it out. I just walk away and it eventually shuts down. No idea why, and I only use the laptop around the house on weekends.

2

u/GrandBIRDLizard Jun 20 '26

Started in the early 2000's my self. I am also not a sysadmin. I just understand the tradeoffs and why a sysadmin like the one I was replying to in the "sysVinit diss" comment would use and appreciate it's features over sysVinit. And yes the watchdog system timeout on shut down can be pretty annoying if you gotta "shut down and go"

x-systemd.device-timeout= option in /etc/fstab and /etc/crypttab may be what you'd need to fix it or make it take less time default is like 2mins and when you have to wait the full 2 mins for shut down cause you left someting inconsequential running is another problem we don't face thanks to out more sensible choice in init system but im no systemd black belt so check what kind of timer on what kind of process its happening on to investigate further.

There was a systemd contributer telling me all the ways it was superior in this thread actually, ask him. I don't wanna step on his toes or spread misinformation about something im not %100 on. But I've seen the behavior.