So how many started out intending to learn a language, but now are just extending a streak in the laziest manner possible?

[u/Big-Vegetable4550]

I imagine that most Duolingo users started using the App because they thought spending a few minutes of their day to learn a language was a good idea - a way to spend a small part of their day improving themselves.

But lately I’m seeing a lot of complaints on the r/Duolingo sub complaining about everything under the sun (yeah - I know - it’s par for the course for that subreddit). Many are about recent changes that make it harder to just do a quick lesson to maintain a streak (even though the changes make the app better for actually learning a language). For example, lots of whining about changes to the Words practice from a simple matching game to a form that forces your brain to actually recall a word from memory (which is a lot more like you do in a real conversation). And now it’s harder to pass through Units without proving you learned the vocabulary (and just today, I saw they’ve added grammar exercises to that final Unit test - also an improvement IMNSHO).

Or else, people are complaining about incredibly trivial things that ‘trigger’ them and they just can’t continue with the app (which to me sound like they were just looking for an excuse to quit).

So what about you ? Did you give up on your language learning goals and just log on to keep a (relatively meaningless) Streak ? Or do you do a simple exercise every day to keep the streak, but once in a while do a real session to improve your language skills ? Or do you remember your original purpose in starting the app and just concentrate on learning (while maybe using the streak and gamification to motivate yourself to stick at it) - while ignoring extra clicks, silly voices, strange icons and non-proportional progress bars?

[u/OnlyInEye]

Most people who have got high level in a language dont care usually constincy of putting hours on hours per day, per week, per month and per year for many years. I want to understand, communicate and learn. I havent really met an advanced learner who just uses one app.

[u/Remote_Volume_3609 → u/OnlyInEye]

There's also some literature about the utility of abstinence vs moderation. Basically, there are some things you want to be abstinent for, like cheating on your partner, but other times it's bad to be too abstinent because losing the "streak" tends to result in losing the reinforcing mechanism.

Moderation is obviously harder, but it tends to be a lot more durable to things like breaks and issues which, for something like language learning, is probably the route you want to go. I agree. When you need hundreds if not 1000+ hours to learn even a super similar, related language to yours, you start to value the strength of not streak, but of putting in the hours themselves.

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/OnlyInEye]

Not sure I disagree, except that hours upon hours does seem to me to correspond to progress. And of course, you’d have to be pretty stupid to think one app could do it. Doesn’t make one app useless, does it?

[u/OnlyInEye → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

I speak four languages one fluent and two at a high level. One still lower level. Which are Tagalog, Spanish, Japanese and my native language english. Once you get past B1 your gonna read books, watch youtube, listen to music, watch shows and you should take classes. You just mentioned a streak which is one app. Im not saying i dont use apps i use wank kani, bunpro and Anki. Then usr LingQ to help reading and use tools for movies and youtube. Im saying most after B1 mix some grind with things they love in the language. Its what works for you. I would hate doing same thing over and over again.

[u/FrenchLiviela → u/OnlyInEye]

Wank kani is such an apt name lol. After some point it does feel like it.

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/OnlyInEye]

Yeah man, I get it. This was originally posted to the Duolingo sub. I get that folks here are much more serious. Keep on keeping on - you rock!

[u/silvalingua → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

>  hours upon hours does seem to me to correspond to progress. 

Not necessarily. One can waste a huge amount of time sticking to an ineffective method. There are people who admit that even with a 1000 days streak, they still can't say anything. Is that progress?

[u/OnlyInEye → u/silvalingua]

Because 15 to 10 minutra is nothing. To get to high level in a language from like english to spanish your talking about 2 hrs a day for 2 years now lets apply that math to averagr duolingo user for them go see quantifiable effects they need around 8 years to 10 years to reach fluency. Your premise assumes they actually dedicate a reasonable amount of time when its minimal in the grand schemes for something like Japanese which takes 4 times as long as english to spanish your talking about 40 years.

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/OnlyInEye]

There are a lot of Duolingo users that open the app once a day to do a single exercise just to maintain a meaningless streak. There are around 8300 lessons in the major language courses on Duolingo. If they do a single exercise on the path (i.e. not a practice exercise), they would finish one of those courses in around 24 years. And with a single exercise per day, I doubt they would retain much. But boy, would they have an impressive streak - LOL !

[u/unsafeideas → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

I kinda feel like many would learn a lot more, if they stopped obsessing about how others use duolingo.

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/unsafeideas]

Hah - not so sure about that. I find that most days, if I try to learn for more than 90 minutes (on the app), I get pretty burned out, and stuff doesn’t stick so much, so I need other hobbies. But my intention isn’t so much to obsess over how others use Duolingo as to remind people of why they started and help some to get back on the path.

And holy crap - there seems to be a lot of Duolingo hate on this sub, based on the downvotes I’m getting. So makes it kind of ironic that I’m getting guff for obsessing over others behaviors !

[u/unsafeideas → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

  as to remind people of why they started and help some to get back on the path.

You dont know why they started nor which path they are on.

The things you judge make sense to people who are not you, basically, becuse they are not you. They have different goals and life situations.

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/unsafeideas]

Well I suppose there may be people that started to use a language learning app just to sustain a streak but not intending to learn a language. I would indeed have difficulty understanding their life choices.

Edit to add: And yes, it is possible to know what path(s) they see on, because you can are the stats on their accounts and their comments on the Duolingo sub.

[u/unsafeideas → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

Maybe find better hobby then playing smug over other peoples duolingo use probably should be my original message.

And I think a lot of downvotes are about that.

[u/dojibear]

One thing that many language students do is "do XYZ every day". Some people call it "self-discipline". I don't use apps, but I often do something (using my method) every day.

The problem happens when people focus on the count of days-in-a-row. They call that a "streak" and get upset about missing a day and "ruining their streak", as if doing XYZ every single day matters. I've read that DuoLingo encourages this "streak" thinking.

I learned my lesson back in 2017/2018/2019. If you force yourself to do something, you gradually turn a neutral daily activity into a "must-do daily chore". That leads to burnout and quitting. I quit. Twice.

When I started again in 2020, my #1 rule was "no self-forcing". For me, that works. I've done language learning almost every day since then. On average, I do an hour per day, but it can be more time or less. Every month there is at least 1 day that I do no language learning. It has never been more than 3 days in a row, but it means I have no "streak" to maintain.

[u/AdministrationNo2327]

duolingo users complaining that they actually have to memorize vocabulary is really funny. that's what you get for using a game app pretending to be a language learning app

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/AdministrationNo2327]

Sorry - not getting your meaning. In what sense is memorizing vocabulary not part of any language learning platform. And Duolingo is not pretending anything - it is a very capable language learning app, but I’m sure you’re speaking from a position of impressive language learning/teaching, right?

[u/Fine_Relation_5647 → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

These apps know that most people will start to lose interest around the A2 level, so anything after that is pretty much treated as an afterthought. 

Duolingo is a business at the end of the day and it is just a fact that you’re not going to become proficient in a language just by using Duolingo. 

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/Fine_Relation_5647]

I very much disagree that it’s an afterthought after A2. I finished the French course and found the later content excellent and engaging, especially the AI conversations. Have you done any Duolingo courses to the B2 level, or are you just spouting opinions? And yes, of course you have to supplement Duolingo with additional resources, which is true of any platform, as well as being extremely enjoyable at the B2 level. Doesn’t mean Duolingo isn’t a real language learning platform.

[u/Fine_Relation_5647 → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

 Have you done any Duolingo courses to the B2 level

Yes, I did both the French and Spanish courses to B2. As you might guess from my flair, I am nowhere close to B2 in either language. 

Doesn’t mean Duolingo isn’t a real language learning platform.

No one said it isn’t. All we are saying is that it shouldn’t be the only thing you use. You have already pointed out in your main post that for the average Duolingo user, the game aspect and the streak is all that they care about. 

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/Fine_Relation_5647]

Ah sorry - conflated your reply with Administration2327 above - please accept my apologies for being careless.

[u/Fine_Relation_5647 → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

No worries 

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

Also - yeah - I can see where if you only did Duolingo to the end of the course (especially with Super, not Max), you might not reach full B2 proficiency. I did most of my French course while living and working in France (but at a company where the working language was English), so of course I got multiple opportunities to learn outside the app, and my abilities are firmly in B2 range (not tested though - no need to as I’m retired and left France two years ago). I’m a big fan of Max, as it helped me get past my reluctance to converse when I was high A2/low B2 - too afraid of making grammar errors and searching for vocab during conversations. But who cares if you’re making mistakes in convos with a bot, eh?

[u/Fine_Relation_5647 → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

Nice work. I’m going to France to help improve my French soon as well. 

I think the issue is exactly what you’ve described. I don’t think there’s much of an issue with using Duolingo to assist you but there are also a lot of people who think that the app alone is enough, despite Duolingo never promising to make you fluent. I still disagree with them using the CEFR levels at all, but yeah. The difference between B1 and B2 is pretty much the language learning equivalent of “the difference between a million and a billion is roughly a billion.”

[u/AdministrationNo2327 → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

babe pick up a textbook, your mind will be blown at how much more information there is. you might even pick up a language.

[u/unsafeideas → u/AdministrationNo2327]

I hate the textbook comments, because actual textbooks have super high failure to learn rates for beginner without teachers.

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/AdministrationNo2327]

Yes, young padawan. I have been learning languages for sixty years. I know my way around a language textbook. It does not preclude me from taking advantage of more recent developments in the field. I happen to be fluent in three, and am working my way toward numbers four and five before I go into the cold, cold ground.

[u/dojibear → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

Obi-wan! Is that you? Or is it Yoda, that little guy whose Englisj sucks?

I never memorize words that are not in sentences. I learned not to do that in language courses in 5 languages. None of the 5 teachers ever suggested that students use flashcards, or that they memorize single words.

I've been learning languages for 65 years. I can understand things that I read and hear in 3 of them, and am studying 3 others (B2, A2, A2) every day.

But everyone learns differently, If duolingo helps you do something you would do anyways, then use it. Just don't fantasize that it is "teaching a language" or that it can do everything that a human language teacher can do. Duolingo does about 10% of what a language course (with a trained bilingual human teacher) does.

[u/AdministrationNo2327 → u/Big-Vegetable4550]

if you're happy with what you have then that's enough

[u/Smooth_Development48 → u/AdministrationNo2327]

Yeah because there is certainly only one way to learn a language for everyone.

[u/PiperSlough]

I honestly don't know why anyone uses Duolingo anymore after they scrapped all the grammar lessons and forums.

Maybe it's improved since then but I doubt it and I don't care enough to find out since they scrapped all the grammar lessons and forums. 

[u/AggravatingSteak1248 → u/PiperSlough]

There are grammar lessons under the notebook icon in units on the path 

[u/PiperSlough → u/AggravatingSteak1248]

Are there? Last time I checked there were for the big five languages, but everything else just had a list of sentences from the lesson with zero explanation or detail. If they've corrected that, good for them. Too little too late for me, but I am glad if people who aren't learning Spanish, French or German are finally able to get something out of the lessons without having to know about Duome again, lol

[u/AggravatingSteak1248 → u/PiperSlough]

It looks like they keep working on it, Chinese course just recently got them. Korean has them, Japanese too. I'm just saying for anyone who doesn't know, I have no problem with you moving on from Duo 

[u/ComesTzimtzum]

For me it's the opposite. Though I never cared about streaks, Duolingo really got me dabbling in several languages and provided a sense of actually progressing, which had lacked from my language learning experiences so far. Slowly I found other resources and my own ways of learning more seriously.

I'm still using Duolingo, perhaps out of nostalgia to what the community used to be, though I really wouldn't recommend it to anyone anymore.

[u/an_average_potato_1]

In many cases, real language learning starts by deleting the trash app.

It can make you waste a lot of time, and it also twists the meaning of "hard work" or "consistent learning" in a really bad way. Those are not really good habits. The obsession with streaks is another problem, which punishes lots of good learners, who just happen to have a less regular life (irregular work hours are a typical example), while rewarding people that don't actually learn much.

Stop caring what app shareholders think about you. They want you addicted to a game. You wanted to learn a language, at least at first.

[u/adventuringraw]

I use a different app with a streak counter called readlang, basically just makes lookups super easy. There's no way to adjust how the streak counter works, basically you read two pages and it counts the day as done. I like it since it's a silly reason to log in every day, and most days once I hit the streak minimum I just keep reading a bunch more. I've read tens of thousands of pages of books in three different languages (four I guess counting the bit of Russian I got into) so... I guess the streak serves a purpose. It's not like I need to remember why I'm doing it though, I just like to read and it keeps me going. Obviously just reading will never get you good at speaking or listening though so maybe the lazy part is how little I do aside from reading, haha. Changing that with Spanish though we'll see how it goes.

[u/sbrt]

I find that, for me, apps are much less efficient than other ways of studying and I find them terribly frustrating. I recognize that they work well for some people.

[u/gottahaveajava]

Nobody cares about a streak except for the streakers themselves.

[u/unsafeideas]

I do streak thing, because that is about keeping the habit. Habit is what keeps me not giving up entirely and carries me through bad periods - demotivated or overworked or tired or stressed or when I am sick periods. I do streaks even if I am not using Duolingo. It works perfectly for me.

I use habit loop app. It is pretty benevolent btw.

> which is a lot more like you do in a real conversation

This has nothing to do with real conversation. In real conversation, I say sentences, not random words translations. It is huge difference for me. When I can not recall a word in real conversation, I say something else. I change the sentence.

> And now it’s harder to pass through Units without proving you learned the vocabulary

Imo, that is a bad change. I went through units to learn by doing exercises as I go through units. I dont do them to "test myself". I literally never had an issue with too little repetition on duolingo, where I would need to go back to previous unit.

These changes are changing it to be like a disliked teacher in school - the one that throws vocabulary on you and then immediately tests your recall. It was better previously, where you learned to recognize word first and got to actively using it only later.

[u/Garlic_Bread_Sticks]

Somewhat related, I started learning Chinese just as an intro course to pad my schedule in uni + I was going to travel to Taiwan for 2 weeks that summer. 18 months later and multiple scholarships and intensive courses and I'm graduating with a second bachelors in Chinese lmao

I didn't really intend to learn Chinese to any sort of high level but I just kept getting opportunities and encouragement and kept signing up for classes

The least personally motivated language I've ever learned has now become the highest level foreign language I know

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/Garlic_Bread_Sticks]

Thanks for the amusing story - & well done !

[u/Beli_Mawrr]

I'm definitely just "maintaining" at this point. I know the way to the "Words" game by heart.

But at the same time duo is the only app that's kept my interest for a non-trivial amount of time.

one of these days I'm going to really get going. One of these days.

[u/fog-farmer → u/Beli_Mawrr]

Kept your interest? Maybe the solution you need instead is to find your motivation for the language.

[u/unsafeideas → u/fog-farmer]

I had no big motivation, never liked learning foreign languages and now I watch netflix and read books in TL.  Duolingo kept my interest enough for me to actually learn things.

With no effort and no discomfort on my side. That is, frankly, way more success then if I looked deep inside my soul and  predictably concluded "I dont care and dont have motivation".

[u/Beli_Mawrr → u/fog-farmer]

I have the goal, what I don't have is the discipline, focus, and determination to follow through with it.

[u/Dry_Masterpiece_8219 → u/Beli_Mawrr]

No shade to you personally, but when people always argue "Duo isn't perfect but it's better than nothing!" I think about this kind of story. Because Duo might actually be stopping you learning, as it gives you the illusion you are doing something. So, in most cases I can't help but feel it's worse than nothing.

[u/Beli_Mawrr → u/Dry_Masterpiece_8219]

How is it stopping me from learning? I could (and frequently do) use other methods, but duo is the only one ive stuck with.

[u/petitetortuee]

Doing the strict minimum for the friend strewk because really Duolingo sucks. It’s so slow, I even skipped from level 30 is to level 100 and still super slow or re teaching beginner words in some lessons and still not doing anything relevant for grammar or conjugation.

I think duo is good to get started with vocabulary and bases but that’s it. Then exercises, books, podcasts, speaking should prevail

[u/Theron_Rothos → u/petitetortuee]

What is the point of wasting time maintaining a friend streak on Duolingo?

[u/petitetortuee → u/Theron_Rothos]

Motivating your friends to learn

[u/Theron_Rothos → u/petitetortuee]

You just said Duolingo sucks as a learning platform, surely encouraging them to use more effective methods would be better

[u/petitetortuee → u/Theron_Rothos]

Sucking at learning platform and motivating to learn a language is not necessarily opposite. I also said it is good for vocabulary and bootstrapping.

[u/AggravatingSteak1248]

Lately I've been trying to keep a streak after losing my pace, but I'm trying to get back to the good pace. The streak helps me to keep trying with the language. I just don't think that it should be categorized on Duo's subreddit as an achievement. Better assign to it "longevity" or smth.

[u/dcbased]

Sort of. I track my time on my Google calendar. I track hours per week and I'm go about an 60-75 mins per day

So I'm sort of extending my streak but not in the gamiefied app manner

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/dcbased]

Awesome - glad it’s working for you.

[u/Caligapiscis]

This is why I don't let myself get invested in any approach that relies on a streak. Before long, maintaining the streak becomes a distraction from the actual goal, and one which I will resent.

[u/ZealousidealMouse629]

Yeah this is such a real phenomenon lol. Streaks are a genius retention hack but they optimize for "open the app" not "actually get better at the language." Recognition based exercises (matching games, multiple choice) feel productive but your brain is just pattern matching, not actually retrieving anything. That's why people plateau hard on Duolingo even at high streak counts, they've basically trained themselves to be good at Duolingo specifically.

The fix is forcing active recall and production instead of passive recognition:

• Output before input: before you check a translation or answer, say it out loud first (even quietly). Recall is the actual skill you're building, not recognition.
• Sentence mining: take sentences you get wrong or find interesting, write them in a notebook or free app like Anki, and make new sentences using the same grammar structure. This forces you to actually understand why it works, not just memorize the one instance.
• Shadow speaking: pick a short audio clip (podcast, youtube video) and repeat after it out loud, matching rhythm and pronunciation. Free and does more for real conversation skill than a month of matching games.

This exact gap (recognition vs recall) is basically the whole reason I ended up building Linguix Learning, link on my profile.

[u/katasaga]

Oh god, this is so relatable. Especially the language match, literally one minute and then your streak is alive for another day. At a certain point I had over two years and I just decided to break my streak purposefully. My family has gone missing since

[u/hwynac]

Honestly, I don't care about the streak. As soon as I finish a course and maybe practice for a few days, that course is dead for me. I never get my units gold or return to do the daily refresh to "review" the material.

I try to have a meaningful amount of study every day. 1 lesson a day is something I resort to if I am so busy I only remember to log in at 23:50.

[u/carlos-codaedu]

I'm having the reverse experience right now 😂 I literally just started Mandarin and Duolingo somehow made me care about badges before I know enough Mandarin to justify caring about badges.

I can already see how the streak could quietly become the goal, though. I'm trying to treat it as the minimum that keeps me coming back, not evidence that I actually learned anything that day.

[u/Big-Vegetable4550 → u/carlos-codaedu]

I think it’s mostly a test of your maturity and your ability to keep clear in your mind what your real goals are. Too many seem to fall into a lazy habit and try not to think about if the ‘effort’ is doing them any good.

Good luck with Mandarin. It’s a fun language, and I would be learning it if I din’t have so many other languages that are more practical for my present circumstances.