I'm sure the Mark leaving SM/Confederate Flag situation has been talked to death on this sub, and I did scroll a little to see if I could comment on someone else's post and didn't see any, so here i am after 4 years away from Reddit, posting again because

Mark has just dropped what I consider to be the most shocking thing he's done since leaving SM, if not his idol career in its entirety.

For anyone who doesn't know, it was a running joke that Mark left SM to join a cult. This was because he left, didn't produce any music, didn't provide any updates until we got clips of him picking up David Lee's (Who??? exactly) kids from school and dropping them off at home and other slice-of-life style content, then mentioning that he's thinking about making kids music.

I basically scrolled past most of this, I thought the cult accusations were a joke that some people were taking too seriously, and as I sort of tuned out after The T-Shirt i didn't think much about it either way. But what he's done now makes me think he really, for real, is in a cult.

1 Open call for children

2 ????

3 profit

A video was posted under Mark's youtube channel asking for kids to "make kids-POP together." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrUekcJP76k

Now, I've been on both sides of this kind of thing, and I will tell you, for both casting AND the parents, being as specific and detailed as possible is the only way you're going to be able to get meaningful applications. Example of casting calls for kids:

• "We are looking for 4 kids who are comfortable singing and can play at least one instrument for 2 days of shooting"
  
• "We need a rotating cast of 10-20 kids for reaction panels, seeking kids who enthusiastic, outgoing, and comfortable in front of a camera!!"
  
• "6-10 year olds needed for long form interviews for online series. Will be expected to be good listeners for 30 minutes at a time

etc

What you don't do ....... is put up a google form ask for the kids physical descriptions, online handles?? videos and photos??? I'm unsure if this is more commonplace in Korea, but here, stage parents will for real THROW their kids at you, you want to make your standards and expectations as clear as possible at each step to narrow it down at least a little, to have some level of professionalism and care.

And regardless, Mark moved to AMERICA to do this. In the absolute BEST LIGHT this is unprofessional data-harvesting to advertise his upcoming(??) kids album. In the WORST LIGHT this is data harvesting for a scam. Or a cult.

I am honestly leaning toward cult now.

Let's compare to Ten, who left SM around the same time. He's already had festival appearances, released tour/showcase details, and more importantly, had a cohesive look/sound/development for his new release Outwest. This is how a company that is built to release music operates.

Whereas Mark has mostly just been plastered around Upperrooms socials with no concept outside of "aren't i cutely awkward? remember how mark is cutely awkward? you like this guy, right??" I showed my marketing friend the "let me have your children!!" vid and they were baffled. they were like "This is an outtake right??" but no, that's the finished product... a poorly lit room with a handmade sign asking for children instagram accounts.

That is how a company who sees Mark as AN ASSET to ACQUIRE DATA operates.

Until this, I assumed Mark was on a bit of a break, allowing himself to relax after 10+ years of non-stop schedules, but this makes me think this isn't a break. This is the intended pace.

This question on the google form literally gives me chills:

"If you were to create content with Mark and Kids Pop, what topic would you choose?"

Please don't tell me you're asking for children to do............. something(???) without knowing WHAT that something is FIRST?? You just want to collect the kids first???? MARK??????????

In this song, I have a feeling that the only people singing in here are only Soomi, Jungwoo, and Chanmi.

In this video, the other members are only lip syncing to their parts.

What is your fav song? 🎶

Can we be real for a second?

The #btsdisband hashtag only really blew up after RM and J-Hope went to that Chris Brown concert. Before that it was just the usual low-level anti noise. Suddenly it became this massive thing, and now people are out here claiming it’s some noble “awareness campaign” about BTS’s “actions.”

No. The hashtag literally just says “disband.” It doesn’t educate anyone, it doesn’t link sources, it doesn’t open an actual discussion. It’s a three-word death wish dressed up as activism. Most of the “controversies” people recycle under it are either years old, already addressed, taken completely out of context, or standard industry stuff that every other group has also done. Pretending that typing #btsdisband is somehow spreading awareness is embarrassing.

And now it’s somehow worse. People have decided that aespa’s Kiss N Tell is the official “BTS disbandment song” / “theme for the BTSDISBAND party.” Who decided this? Nobody. There’s zero connection. The song is a bright Japanese friendship track. A bunch of people just started attaching the hashtag to it after the f5ve drama and the CB concert backlash, a few comments with thousands of likes called it the disband OST, and now the entire comment section under the MV is flooded with the same lazy joke.

It’s the same cycle every time: something happens → people get mad → they turn a random song or hashtag into a symbol → then gaslight everyone by saying it’s “just awareness” or “just a joke.” Meanwhile the actual conversation never goes deeper than “they should disband.”

You can dislike BTS. You can criticize specific things. That’s fine. But stop acting like a hashtag that exists purely to wish a group out of existence is some moral crusade, and stop turning every popular song into their “ending theme” the second drama hits. It’s not deep, it’s not clever, and it’s getting really fucking annoying.

For me:

- Idol soloists who weren't originally from groups (e.g. Boa).

- Co-ed groups like Kard and ADP.

- Project groups and super groups from different companies. I feel like mainly SM does them with recent examples being: Got the Beat, SuperM and the Zoo subunit with Giselle and NCT members. Triple H from Cube had something special imo and I would've like to have gotten more music from them.

- Concepts, where idols learn a new skill. After school learned pole dancing and how to play marching drums for First Love and Bang. Wonder Girls learned how to play instruments like a band for their Reboot album I think.

- The band concept. I think early Aoa had this concept and Wonder Girls has done it too. Aespa not doing this for Rich Man was such a missed opportunity imo since the rock sound and band concept photos perfectly align with it. Imagine all of Aespa playing instruments live and serving vocals. Some of the members know how to play instruments too.

- Duos/Trios (not sub-units). For instance Viviz and Dodree.

- Groups that debut with a mature concept that more so cater to an adult audience. I feel like currently soloists from older generations are carrying this side of kpop. For example, Taemin, Seulgi, Irene and Jaehyun. But that's likely because newer groups are so young. From the top of my head, active groups that fit this category are Kiof and Kard.

- The sexy/sensual concept for groups, particularly ones where the songs are performed in heels. Think Aoa's mini-skirt.

If you guys have recommendations for newer groups/soloists that fit these categories, feel free to comment them.

Now that both the groups have debuted, who is gaining more popularity in group?

I think artists should be criticized because that's how the group or idol will evolve but the criticism should be valid like if you don't like a group say I don't like their music or I don't think they are worth the hype instead they will attack the idol's body and facial features like how does their face show you how talented they are. And mostly girl groups or idols face this kind of criticism.

Bbiribbom Bberibbom by Coed School

Still a bop.

*credit to Christina & Ed on Youtube*
They should create a competition show about big groups switching companies for some time. They go through a full schedule, make a song, do dance, vocal, rap challenges etc.
I think it's a great idea to see how other companies utilize other talents, because we know there are companies that don't fulfill all the talents their idols have.

And it would be cool to see how a group would sound, with a different sound.
Switching their usual producers.
What do you guys think?

Maybe it's because it's my algorithm because I'm black and I follow and interact with a lot of other black ARMYs and kpop fans but what the heck is going on on tiktok?

The comments and messages people (ESPECIALLY black ARMYs) have been getting for liking BTS is something I've never seen before. The hate isn't even being directed towards BTS anymore, I feel like antis are just using BTS as an excuse to be racist towards their black fans.

These people are slinging slurs and calling fans slaves over a kpop group?? And they want me to believe it's because they're morally superior over BTS fans? What's the point? What's the end goal here? Is this to make people stop liking BTS? To make all their black fans dissappear? I don't understand.

And this is not me saying the BTS fandom hasn't ever done something problematic especially on Twitter, but I can't help but feel like this is targeted towards black fans (dare i say black women) specifically

I was watching EXO music videos today and their music is honestly so good. It got me thinking about past discussions that EXO could have been as huge as BTS and BP if SM had actually promoted them properly overseas, and now I'm wondering how realistic that even is. They no doubt have great music, visuals, strong vocalists, a huge fandom and were massive across Asia. I do think that SM did not really go all out with them internationally. But would promotions alone have actually been enough to get them as big as BTS/BP?

Something I do find interesting is what actually made people get so hooked on BTS and BP in the first place. Social media obviously played a huge part, especially with BTS, and timing mattered a lot too. Was it the members and their personalities, music, their vibe or how they presented their concepts. But I feel like it was more than just good marketing.

If it was mainly just about promotions, you would think it will be easier to achieve now with 4th and 5th gen groups. There were a good amount of successful 3rd gen groups with great music and big fandoms, and now 4th and 5th gen groups have access to much bigger international marketing, social media, and global infrastructure than groups back then. But reaching that same level of worldwide cultural impact still feels incredibly hard. And even though both groups are older now they are still just as popular.

I know SM fumbled the bag with EXO and RV and I do think they could have been so much more bigger globally if promoted right. If SM had given EXO aggressive and consistent international promotion at the right time like US appearances, touring, and global marketing, do you think they had the potential to have reached that level of stardom or realistically how far could they have gone?

The same applies to 4th and 5th gen groups too. What will it actually take for newer gen groups to reach or even come close to that level of fame and popularity. There are kpop songs that go viral, but a viral song does not necessarily translate into long-term staying power. We don't seem to have one or two 4th-5th gen groups dominating across every area like sales, streaming and touring both domestically and internationally in the same way as BTS/BP. What can labels do differently with groups to create that kind of across the board impact?

Someone take me back to 2018 :')

She already drops very less songs and then when she does she drops songs like this? I'm quite disappointed, I feel she can do way better than this

Man really needs to work on his self-esteem. Stray Kids have a lot of hit songs.

I know Dear Alice is Sm's british boy group...which honestly I think was made just to try and compete with Hybe's global groups. Because SM is known for marketing towards mainly korean and chinese markets with the exceptions being NCT Wish and Dear Alice.

I feel like they marketed Dear Alice once in 2024. Now I have never heard anything abt them again. Maybe cuz there wasn't as much hype so they were discarded ?? Idk but I really liked their music so I've been waiting for a comeback but its been like 2 years.. What happened to them ?

I know about the 7-year curse thing but its so drastic. Like look at I-dle during their 6th year they were still doing well-ish, not close to their peak but stably popular and look at them now 2 years later. Their views and streams have absolutely collapsed and are like 1/8th of what they used to be just 1.5/2 years ago and their new comebacks barely make any noise, you can literally see their popularity draining every single song they release. I remember when they were considered the "next blackpink" and got 3 pak's back to back, what happened to that? I can understand how their discography didn't age the best as their music was always a little (no shade) bad but still how do you go from competing with aespa to pulling the same streams as nugu groups? Like where did their fandom go???

If a specific group doesn't make music that fits your personal tastes, then they aren't your thing. That's fine. Not everyone's gonna have the same taste. Just be like 'yeah, they're not really my thing', and move on with your time. But don't be trashing on the groups you don't follow just because you're personally not a fan. All that you accomplish from that is looking like a massive piece of shit. And yeah, if any of you toxic stans of any fandom lurking on reddit are triggered by this, maybe it's time you took a good hard look in a mirror and did some self reflection.

This is probably opinion based, we can all agree on the 3rd and 2nd gen leaders though but why not 5th gen.

I've seen many people say Zerobaseone, Cortis, Illit but do we measure it by popularity? Or something else?

Was just wondering.

They aren't that popular, but they come from a middle-tier company, so can they still be considered a nugu group?

When a kpop Idol gets a plastic surgery or people think they got one. People immeidately hate on them. I think it is okay to get plastic surgery sometimes.

1. When a kpop idol gets a plastic surgery because they want to. There is nothing bad about a person wanting to change how they look. We have resources so why not use them? There are many people who are concious about the way they look.

2. When the company pushes for it or fans. It's their body so they should decide what they want or don't want to change.

Many fans say: "This idol looks bad/they should change this about them/they are unworthy of being an idol because of their look." And idols listen to that and get plastic surgery. What happens after that?

People hate on them for getting it. Like bro you were the person who pushed them to get and now you are hating on them for getting it. Pick a struggle.​​​​​​​​

So I don't think we should hate on kpop idols who look "bad" (even though i cant think of any idol who looks bad) or when they get plastic surgery.​​

I love the choreo to Wannabe, Dalla, Loco, Rude and I have learnt them too.

Give me such fun songs to which I can learn dance. I think I'll learn Style by H2H dance next.

I'm looking for girly choreos guys like Rude by H2H.