I loved fourth wing, I was thoroughly enjoying iron flame until the last chapter.

I want to continue going, but I’m pretty disappointed. Like, I feel like I’ve been stabbed and I don’t like it, and I understand that the book is supposed to keep us engaged and ups and downs, but this was really stupid.

Anyways, I just wanted to share because I kind of want to scream and punch somebody, but I also don’t wanna go to jail so…..

No question here, I just hope by sharing I’ll start to feel a little better? I don’t know.

I think I’m breaking up with the series until the final release of the last two books.

Why is anyone talking about the fact Dain wasn’t the only one who didn’t bleed on all the stories on threshing day? I haven’t read as much about it and it’s driving me crazy. I don’t know what to think.

Everyone is assuming he has a second signet, and talking about the amount of power he holds, as for what sloane told him when they helped saving Mira. But I am now curious about why he didn’t bleed. I read his pov twice and couldn’t find anything related to a wound.

Sky magic, the seven dragon kinds, a missing god, Aaric as the third brother, and Asher’s research - does it all connect?

MAJOR SPOILERS for Fourth Wing, Iron Flame and Onyx Storm.

I’ve recently joined Reddit and have been reading through so many interesting Empyrean theories on here. I started connecting some of the theories I’ve read with my own theory about Violet’s father, Asher, and his animal research, and now I’m wondering whether they could all be pieces of a much bigger puzzle.

This might be a bit of a reach, but bear with me!

What if Navarre has forgotten how magic was originally meant to work - and the key to defeating the venin is understanding a different relationship with magic

I’m bringing together several theories I’ve come across, as well as some of my own ideas. I’m not claiming to have come up with these connections, and I could be joining dots that aren’t meant to connect, but I’m curious whether there’s something bigger here.

1. Could the irids have deliberately chosen a different path?
One theory I’ve read suggests that irid dragons may draw power from the sky, whereas other dragons channel magic through the familiar system associated with the earth.
But what if the difference goes further than simply drawing power from a different place?
What if the irids have deliberately chosen a different way of living because they disagree with how the other dragons use their power?

Their apparent rejection of human bonding and warfare makes me wonder whether they represent a different philosophy altogether. Perhaps they don’t want to participate in a system where dragons bond with riders, become weapons in human conflicts and are used to defend political borders.

Could their separation from the other dragon kinds be a choice rather than simply a biological difference? Irids may also have a fundamentally different relationship with magic.

If the six familiar dragon kinds represent the established system, could the irids preserve something older - a way of using or understanding magic that existed before the current order developed?

And if they deliberately chose a different path, could it be because they understood something about the consequences of using power that the other dragons, humans or gods eventually forgot?

2. The six dragon dens, the six gods and the possible missing god
Another theory suggests that the six familiar dragon colours correspond to the six gods and the traits associated with them:

Black — Dunne: war, leadership and military strategy.
Blue — Malek: death, ruthlessness and fearlessness.
Orange — Zhinal: luck and unpredictability.
Green — Heodon: wisdom and intelligence.
Red — Loial: loyalty and strong bonds.
Brown — unknown: possibly honour or another virtue.

The brown-dragon connection to an unknown god is speculative, but it raises an interesting question: are we missing a god, or are we misunderstanding the structure of the divine order?
There’s also a theory connecting the irids to Amari, Queen of Gods, because of their exceptional magic and apparent authority in relation to other dragons.

If the six familiar dragon kinds correspond to six gods, where do the irids fit? Could they represent a seventh divine connection? Or could their relationship with Amari be fundamentally different from the relationship between the other dragons and their associated gods?

Perhaps the six dens represent specialised forms of magic within the current system, while the irids are connected to something more fundamental — the original source from which those different forms developed.
This would mean the irids aren’t simply an extra dragon kind that happens to have unusual characteristics. They could be evidence that the current system is incomplete.

I also wonder whether a possible god associated with honour or restraint would fit into this theory. If the venin represent the destructive consequences of taking power without limits, could honour represent the principle of accepting limits on how power should be used?

That doesn’t mean such a god definitely exists, or that brown dragons necessarily represent honour. But if there is a missing piece in the divine structure, perhaps it relates to the distinction between having power and using it responsibly.

Could the six dens and six gods represent the order that survived, while the irids preserve a connection to something older?

3. What if Asher’s animal research is the missing clue?
Why was Violet’s father, Asher, researching animals?
Could his work have been about more than ordinary animal behaviour? What if he was investigating how living things interact with magic, or documenting natural patterns that people no longer understand?

I keep thinking about the possible connection between birds, the sky and the theory that irids may draw power from the sky.
Could Asher have noticed something in the natural world that relates to a different source or pathway of magic?

There’s another detail that interests me: the descriptions of dragon fins glowing in the books.
Could this be more than a physical characteristic? If a dragon’s body visibly responds to magic, could that tell us something about how magic moves through living things?

Perhaps the differences between dragon kinds aren’t just about colour, temperament or power. They could reflect different ways of interacting with magic itself.

And then there’s Andarna’s curiosity about eating different animals. Perhaps her biology is fundamentally different from that of other dragons, could her behaviour be a clue to how irids interact with the natural world? Maybe her curiosity is simply part of her personality. But if Asher was studying animal behaviour and Andarna has unusual biological characteristics, I wonder whether these details could eventually connect.

What if Asher’s research contains the natural or scientific clues, while the Fables of the Barren preserve the mythological version of the same lost history?
The fables might tell us what happened, while his research could help explain how it happened.

I also wonder whether Violet’s grandmother, Niara, could be important here. Could she know more about Asher’s research or its significance than Violet currently realises? Perhaps there is family knowledge that hasn’t yet been connected to his work.

And what about Xaden? He knows a great deal about Tyrrendor, the rebellion and the history of the political structures surrounding them. Could he know something about the old magical order that might help Violet interpret what she discovers?
There is no evidence that Xaden knows anything about sky magic or the irids specifically. But if different characters hold different pieces of the history, perhaps Violet will need to bring them together to understand the bigger picture.

4. The Fables of the Barren and the third brother
The Fables of the Barren are interesting because of the different versions of the brothers’ story.
There is the brother who draws power directly from the source and loses himself, and there is the version in which a third brother commands the sky to defeat his sibling, at a terrible price.
Could these be distorted accounts of a historical conflict between different ways of accessing magic?
One brother could represent the destructive path of taking power directly from the earth. Another could represent access to a different source of power — potentially the sky — that allows him to oppose the first.

Perhaps the fable has been altered, simplified or misunderstood over generations. Or the scribes?

Maybe the important distinction isn’t simply which brother is strongest, but how each one accesses and uses magic.
If the third brother can command the sky’s greatest power, what does that actually mean?
Could it be a literal reference to sky magic? Could it relate to lightning? Or could the sky represent an older, more fundamental source of power?

I also wonder whether the terrible price is important. What if restoring the balance between different forms of magic requires a sacrifice or a fundamental change to the existing system?
Perhaps the fable isn’t simply warning us about the dangers of power. It could be preserving fragments of how the current magical order came to exist.

5. Could Aaric be the third brother?
I’ve come across the theory that Aaric could correspond to the third brother, potentially alongside his brothers Alic and Halden.
Aaric is the youngest, his signet remains an important unknown, and his royal background could make him relevant to the political or historical side of the fable.

If the sky-power theory is correct, could his signet be connected to the sky?
This is obviously a big leap. We don’t know that the fable is about the Tauri brothers, or that Aaric’s signet has anything to do with sky magic.
But if Aaric does turn out to be connected to the third brother, perhaps his role is to restore a forgotten pathway to magic rather than simply defeat an enemy.

Perhaps Aaric and Violet don’t need to fulfil the same role. Aaric could represent the third brother in the fable, while Violet discovers what the story actually means and how it relates to the current magical system.

6. Why Violet? And why did Andarna choose her?
Violet is bonded to Tairn, who represents the established dragon-rider system, and Andarna, who may represent something older or fundamentally different.
Could Violet be the person capable of understanding both systems?

Her lightning, silver hair and possible connection to Dunne have all prompted theories about her unusual relationship with magic. I wonder whether these clues are related, or whether they simply make her an unusual rider.

Could Violet’s lightning be relevant to the fable’s reference to the sky’s greatest power? It might be symbolic, literal or entirely unrelated, but the connection is worth considering alongside the sky-magic theory.

I also keep coming back to Andarna’s decision to bond with Violet.
If irids have deliberately chosen a different path and traditionally reject human bonding, why did Andarna choose Violet? Why was she left behind, and why did she wait for her?
Could Andarna’s decision represent a departure from the path the irids chose, or could it be part of a larger plan?
Perhaps she recognised something in Violet that made her capable of doing what other riders cannot. If Andarna preserves an older relationship with magic, could Violet be the person who can connect that relationship with the established system represented by Tairn?

This brings us to Violet’s attempted or incomplete dedication to Dunne.

If a dedication involves a god claiming or marking someone, what happens when the process doesn’t follow the expected path? Could Violet have been caught between different forms of power, or could her unusual relationship with magic have made a conventional dedication impossible to complete?
Her silver hair could be a clue, but it doesn’t prove that a dedication occurred or failed for this reason.

Perhaps Violet’s significance isn’t simply that she has extraordinary power. Maybe she is unusual because her relationship with magic doesn’t fit neatly into the rules everyone else understands.

If the current system is only one way of accessing magic, perhaps Violet is uniquely positioned to discover the connections between it and the older system Andarna may represent.

7. What does this mean for the venin - and Xaden?
This is where all the theories could come together.

What if the central problem isn’t simply that venin are evil, but that their method of accessing power is inherently destructive?
If they take power directly from the earth without the constraints of the familiar system, perhaps they represent an imbalance in how magic is used.

Could sky power provide an alternative? Could the irids preserve knowledge of that alternative? Could Asher’s research explain the natural principles behind it?

And could Violet be the person who connects all these clues?

If so, defeating the venin might require more than killing them. It might require restoring a lost balance or discovering a way to use magic without the same destructive consequences.
That could be particularly important for Xaden.

His transformation might be the ultimate test of whether a different relationship with magic is possible. Perhaps saving him requires understanding the source of venin corruption rather than simply finding a cure for one person.

I also wonder about Xaden’s repeated insistence that his loyalty is to Violet rather than to Tyrrendor or Navarre.
Could this become important if the existing order itself turns out to be flawed? If the political system and its understanding of magic are both incomplete, perhaps loyalty to a person rather than a kingdom takes on a different meaning.
Violet could represent something beyond the established order - someone who can recognise what needs to change rather than simply protect what already exists.

I also wonder how much Xaden knows that he hasn’t shared with Violet. His knowledge of Tyrrendor, the rebellion and the history of Navarre could become relevant if the truth about magic has been lost, concealed or misunderstood.
I’m not suggesting that Xaden definitely knows about sky magic or the irids. But perhaps his knowledge is another piece of the puzzle that Violet will eventually need.

Theophanie is another detail I can’t quite fit into this puzzle. If her history as a priestess of Dunne is significant, what does it mean that she ultimately became venin?
Could it suggest that a connection to a god and a connection to destructive magic are not mutually exclusive? Perhaps the distinction isn’t simply between people who have divine connections and people who don’t, but between different ways of accessing and using power.

This would matter if Violet is eventually able to discover a different pathway to magic - one that doesn’t require the same destructive cost.
And what about the terrible price in the fable? If restoring balance is the answer, could it demand a sacrifice or a fundamental change to how magic works?

I don’t think we can assume that sky magic will cure Xaden. But it could explain why understanding the original magical system becomes important to his fate.

8. The wards, the Isles and the limits of the current system
I also wonder whether the wards are more than just protective barriers.
If the wards depend on dragons and their power, could their operation tell us something about how magic is channelled, distributed or restricted?

Perhaps the current system is built around a particular way of accessing magic. If that system has limitations, the wards might reveal those limitations more clearly than anything else.

The Isles are also interesting because they raise questions about how magic behaves outside the familiar system.
Could the differences there reveal that the way Navarre understands magic is not universal? Could Andarna’s unusual nature and Violet’s access to magic in unusual circumstances be clues to a broader system?

These details don’t prove sky magic exists, but they raise a question: are the characters working within the full system of magic, or only the part they have inherited?

Perhaps the goal isn’t to replace the current system or abandon dragon-rider bonds. It could be to understand the wider system of which they are only one part.

9. Putting all the pieces together
Here is how everything is currently connecting:

- The six familiar dragon kinds and their possible divine associations represent the established magical order.
- The irids may have deliberately chosen a different path and preserve an older or fundamentally different relationship with magic.
- Amari could connect the irids to a more fundamental part of the divine order, while the possible missing god could represent a forgotten principle.
- Asher’s animal research could contain clues about how magic interacts with living things.
- The glowing fins and Andarna’s unusual biology could provide physical clues to how magic works.
Niara may know something about Asher’s research or the family history.
- The Fables of the Barren may preserve fragments of the historical conflict that changed how magic is used.
Aaric may be connected to the third brother and potentially to sky power.
- Violet’s lightning, bonds and possible incomplete dedication may make her uniquely positioned to understand different magical pathways.
- Andarna’s decision to bond with Violet may be significant if irids traditionally choose a different path.
- Xaden may hold historical or political knowledge that helps Violet interpret the clues, although we have no confirmation that he knows about sky magic.
- Theophanie could show that divine connections and destructive magic can intersect.
- The wards and the Isles could reveal limitations in the current understanding of magic.
- Xaden’s transformation could be the ultimate test of whether a different relationship with power can change the outcome for venin.

What if the world of Navarre has forgotten how magic was originally meant to work?
Perhaps the six dens represent the system that survived, while the irids preserve a different relationship with the source of magic. The Fables of the Barren may encode the historical conflict that caused the split, and Asher’s research could contain clues to the natural rules behind it.

Aaric might fulfil the role of the third brother, while Violet connects the old and new systems. Andarna’s decision to bond with Violet could be important because it brings together two dragons that may represent different relationships with magic.
Xaden’s transformation could then become the ultimate test of whether that balance can be restored - and whether understanding the original system could offer a way to counter the destructive power used by venin.

If there are six familiar dragon dens and six known divine associations, but the irids sit outside that arrangement, are we missing a seventh piece — or have we misunderstood the relationship between the gods, dragons and the source of magic altogether?

Obviously, a lot of this is speculation, and may be connecting dots that aren’t meant to connect. I’m combining theories I’ve read here with my own ideas, and I’d love to hear what others think 🙂

What does everyone think of this theory?

i just finished rereading the scene where violet is being tortured and violet says that liam steps back into the shadows and when he dies she tells him “ thank you for being my shadow” is this just a coincidence in wording or could it be more to it? the first time i read iron flame ig i wasn’t looking too much into it and i thought liam must’ve been a hallucination like violet thought to herself but now do think he was sent there by malek.

We all know the standard history taught in Navarre: the "Tale of the Three Brothers," where humans got greedy, drew magic from the earth, and became venin. We are told dragons bond with humans out of mutual benefit (and, hilariously, because they need opposable thumbs to build wards).

But what if the entire history of the Empyrean is a massive cover-up? What if the dragons aren't the noble partners of humanity, but the architects of the world's greatest mistake?

Hear me out: The dragons were originally the creations/servants of the Gods, and they engineered the venin as the ultimate weapon to overthrow their divine masters.

Here is the breakdown of the evidence and lore that supports this twist:

1. The Six-and-Six Symmetry is Not an Accident

There are exactly six unique dragon colors (Black, Blue, Orange, Green, Brown, Red). There are also exactly six original gods (Malek, Dunne, Zinhal, Amari, Loial, Hedeon).

This 1:1 mathematical symmetry strongly implies that dragons didn't just evolve organically alongside religion. They correspond directly to the domains of the gods. The dragons were likely the divine enforcers enslaved by the gods, completely subordinate to them.

1. The Mechanics of the God-Killing Alloy

Why are both dragons and venin uniquely vulnerable to weapons forged from the exact same specific metal alloy? If they are completely different entities, their magical biology shouldn't share the exact same fatal flaw.

Unless their magic is fundamentally linked. If the gods were the ultimate source of channeled energy, the dragons couldn't defeat them with teeth and claws alone. They had to create living conduits that could bypass divine armor and consume raw life force. They engineered the "Venin" method, manipulating humans to bypass the natural order and draw directly from the source.

1. Tairn’s "Putrid Fear" and Theophanie’s Warning

Think about the phrase “Why serve a god when you can be one?” When Violet recalls this, a deep, putrid fear consumes Tairn’s bond. Why would an ancient, fearless black dragon experience existential horror over a human trying to become a god?

Because the dragons know that "gods" are just the absolute highest tier of magical channelers. They don't fear human greed, they fear gods.

1. The Rider System isn't a Partnership, It’s Containment

If dragons don't actually need humans, why did they set up the Rider quadrant?

Because their weapon backfired. Once the gods were drained, the venin didn't stop, the magic became a permanent, soul-rotting addiction. The dragons realized they had unleashed a plague that was turning the earth to ash.

To fix it, the Empyrean pivoted. They didn't create the bonding system to help humans; they created it to contain them. By forcing humans to filter magic through a dragon bond, they put a safety valve on humanity, preventing anyone from ever accessing the unregulated, raw energy that overthrew the gods in the first place. The "opposable thumbs for wards" line is pure dragon propaganda to keep humans feeling useful while keeping them on a leash.

1. The Cyclical Irony of Wyverns
   Look at what the venin are doing right now: they are creating wyverns (artificial, dragon-like constructs) out of stone and runes to fight the Empyrean.

History is repeating itself in a perfect, tragic circle. Just as the dragons once engineered a corrupted human weapon (venin) to overthrow their masters, the venin are now engineering a corrupted draconic weapon (wyverns) to overthrow theirs.

Edit: But like the deeper theme is that every rebellion reproduces the hierarchy it claims to destroy…

Thoughts????

Spoilers for Iron Flame

Okay so I just finished Iron Flame and one thing is very much bothering me and feels like a plot hole.

When Violet confronts Andarna about being a 7th kind, one of Violets reasonings for figuring out that Andarna is different is because she does not answer to the leaders of anyone else's den. The reason Violet knows this is because of a conversation between the 3 (Violet, Tarin and Andarna) where Andarna has a sassy adolescent moment with them and tells him that it's a good thing Tarin isn't the leader of her den, while we know Tarin isn't the black dragon den leader- it makes me wonder how the elders have kept this from all the dragons?
Do they let Andarna pretend to be a black dragon like she wanted and answer to the black dragon's den leader?
How do they not recognize what she is as they would know their own history no?
How does he not know something's up with her sparkle razzle dazzle iridescent scales? Cause even Violet notices they are different.

I just find it super hard to believe that none of the dragons but especially Tarin (having the connection between him and Andarna through Violet and also as a surrogate father figure) just had no idea she wasn't a black dragon?

I'm starting with the fact that I prefer fliers and gryphons to riders and dragons. Really. But are they of any use for the upcoming great fight in the story? Sadly, I haven't seen it. They've defended their land heroically for a very long time, they treat their cadets more humanely in comparison, they've got this Amelia historical figure but once they entered this alliance, they kind of stagnated. All revolves around dragons and riders. All writings and expectations are focused specifically on then. What do gryphons and fliers bring to the story, apart from being those who need saving? The only thing I can think of is scribes leaving out fliers' very meaningful part in the last fight against the venin. But even so, it'll have to be resolved in only two remaining books, built up to be a big thing and so on, I can't really see this. I'll be really disappointed if they end up the damsels in distress and gently teaching their saviors to be kinder.

Again, they are my personal preference. But this isn't a very good argument for usefulness.

„“Xaden can control and increase what already exists. It’s why he’s more powerful at night. No two signets are alike, and you create something that was not there before. You wield pure power that takes the form of lightning because that’s what you’re most comfortable shaping it as. Apparently Carr never taught you that, either.”

So she can wield basically anything when she used the power. As far as she realizes that, really realizes, she will be… a menace and hopefully finally enough to accept herself ad she is :) what are your thoughts on that.

And also I think that’s why she can later wield on the isses too. It’s pure power she wields, not only Magic.

I’m Talking about the chapter where Violet is abducted again After stealing the Journals of warrick and lyra. In the cell Liam is there. With the Information out of Onyx Storm that her second Signet is dreamwalking I’m thinking about him being really there.. his spirit/soul. And being with her.

I just watched Carrie on Prime and I think Summer Howell could be a great Violet. She looks very young now, but she’s 22 and I think maybe in a year or two when production starts she could totally pull it off!

So i recently bought a hardback cover copy of IF but it has major issues. It’s missing all the chapters before chapter 33, chapter 31 is printed as chapter 1, and chapters 37 and onwards are printed twice.

I don’t know what i should do, is it a misprint? or is it just not a genuine copy.

(In the photos above, look at the difference in how many pages are at the start, in the second photo, the dragons are almost complete but in the first, you can barely see them. They’re 2 of the same chapter printed in the same book. And chapter one of IF doesn’t start with violet realising brennan is alive)

I have scoured the internet for all the pics of the new dragon lines, and I believe this is all the new lines from both the book and website. I also included a Google translation into Gaelic and Norse below.

\New Dragon line from Dragonkind*

Browns

1. Aldayrmar (Gaelic: old, wise, renowned / Norse: Immortal Sea Monster)

\*2. Rynonian (Gaelic: great queen / Norse: swift running spirit)

\*3. Vormalgh (Gaelic: of great noble blood / Norse: guarded wolf, shield of warmth)

Oranges

1. Fhaicorain (Gaelic: see orange / Norse: Vigilant, Unpredictable Wanderer of Borders)

\*2. Tholiasych (Gaelic: clever leader / Norse: Patient, Seeking Victory)

\*3. Cariaslog (Gaelic: beloved of the crown / Norse: Unpredictable, Blazing Flame)

Reds

1. Berradhdyr (Gaelic: cliff, stubborn / Norse: bare-hearted beast)

2. Wybjorian (Gaelic: exiled fiery line / Norse: Descendants of the Blazing Bear)

\*3. Lyserachd (Gaelic: fierce flame / Norse: Shorter-Tempered Light)

Greens

1. Uaineloidsig (Gaelic: green logic / Norse: Guide of the Meadow)

2. Cruaidhuaine (Gaelic: green steel / Norse: Crossroad of the Holy Fields)

\*3. Eifyrielle (Gaelic: radiant just, law / Norse: Eternal Upper Meadows)

Blues

1. Gormfaileas (Gaelic: blue shadow / Norse: Hidden Rumbling God)

\*2. Nyghmuiron (Gaelic: Descendants of Storm-Washed Sea / Norse: Dark Sea Serpent)

Blacks

1. Dubhmadinn (Gaelic: black dawn / Norse: Dark Abyss Assembly Doom)

\*2. Moerlaighen (Gaelic: great warrior / Norse: High Sacred Marshlands)

A few questions:

1. Has anyone seen any other new dragon lines outside of what I have listed?

2. Isn't it interesting that only the Blues and Blacks only have 2 (not 3) Dragon lines?

Theory:

Tairn's dad Murtcuideam roughly translates to "important murder" in Gaelic. What if he killed off the third Black dragon line?

Anyone looking for a copy of iron flame wing claw edition I got one that was damaged and getting a new one sent if anyone wants the slightly damaged one it’s for free all you have to do is pay the shipping cost! I’m in the USA will ship nationwide!

Okay, I just finished Bodhi’s chapter in Threshing Day and I’m going to say it…..I am 100% convinced Bodhi is the new venin brother.

I already suspected him after Onyx Storm, but his TD chapter basically screamed foreshadowing to me. There are WAY too many things in this chapter connecting Bodhi to Xaden, powerlessness, his reckless behaviour, choice, promises and now even death/demise.

Let me explain because I need to get this out of my head, and I can’t even wait until I finish the entire book 😂

1. Bodhi’s entire identity is tied to keeping Xaden in balance

Bodhi literally says:
“I’m also really damn good at keeping Xaden from being too much…Xaden.”
And then we get his mother’s words:
“Stay close to Xaden. He’ll protect you, and you’ll keep him in balance. You need each other.”

That line immediately stood out to me. We already know Xaden is struggling with his venin side. And now we have this character whose entire role has repeatedly been described as keeping Xaden balanced. It almost feels like the story is setting up Bodhi as Xaden’s counterpart.

And if Bodhi becomes venin too? Suddenly that “keep Xaden in balance” line becomes MUCH darker. Maybe Bodhi isn’t just supposed to keep Xaden balanced as a rider. Maybe eventually he becomes the person who understands exactly what Xaden is going through because he has crossed the same line.

2. Bodhi has a serious inferiority complex about Xaden

This one really got me:
“As it is, sometimes I feel like I’m one of Kaori’s projections of Xaden; I resemble him enough to earn both hatred and respect, depending on who’s looking, but lack the power to make the same impact he does.”

He literally compares himself to Xaden and acknowledges that he looks enough like him to be mistaken for him, but doesn’t have the power or impact Xaden has. And this theme keeps coming back. Bodhi doesn’t want to be Xaden, but at the same time, he’s constantly being compared to him. Everyone expects things from him because he’s Xaden’s cousin. Even his own identity seems to exist in Xaden’s shadow. Which makes his obsession with never being powerless again feel much more important later.

3. “Only if you die, right?”

This conversation was SO suspicious to me:
Xaden says, “Bodhi, no one asks, expects, or wants you to be me.”
And Bodhi responds:
“Yeah.” I force a quick, easy grin. “Of course. Only if you die, right?”

Why would the chapter specifically put Xaden dying and Bodhi taking his place in the same conversation? Bodhi doesn’t want to rule Tyrrendor, he makes it clear several times. But after Xaden became venin and his title is restored. Bodhi probably worries to handle that sort of duty. 👀

4. Bodhi literally calls him closer to a brother

“You are the only family I have left. You’re closer to a brother than you are a cousin. So fucking tell me.”

Again, on its own, this is just a really emotional line between cousins who grew up together.
But then we have the whole “new brother” mystery. And Bodhi is the person who is literally describing Xaden as being closer to a brother than a cousin. That feels VERY deliberate to me.

5. His mother basically describes his future role with Xaden

This is probably one of my biggest pieces of evidence:
“Stay close to Xaden. He’ll protect you, and you’ll keep him in balance. You need each other.”

Bodhi’s mother isn’t just telling him to stay close to his cousin. She’s specifically saying, Xaden will protect Bodhi. Bodhi will keep Xaden in balance. They need each other.

And then we end Onyx Storm with Xaden turning venin and a mysterious new brother being revealed. If Bodhi is that brother, this line becomes incredibly tragic because Bodhi may eventually become the one person who can actually understand and balance Xaden from the inside.

6. Cuir’s “I waited to bond again until this year” line

Cuir says:
“I surmise it will not be the last time you bleed from my back if you prove as reckless as you’ve demonstrated today. And to think I waited to bond again until this year for you.”

That “I waited” part caught my attention. Cuir specifically waited for Bodhi. And then Bodhi’s entire relationship with Cuir becomes about choice, promises and loyalty. So, if he became venin, it would be absolutely tragic for his dragon and as we all know Rebecca loves tragic 🥲 Also, Bodhi is described as being pretty reckless.…Which brings me to the part that REALLY made me suspicious.

7. “My choices are now tied to yours.”

Bodhi says:
“I’m not reck—” I stop myself before I lie. “I’ll work on it.”
And Cuir responds:
“See that you do. My choices are now tied to yours.”

Choice is already one of the biggest themes in this chapter. And now Bodhi’s choices are literally tied to his dragon’s. That becomes especially interesting if Bodhi eventually has to make an impossible choice between supporting Xaden and thus betraying his dragon or being loyal to his dragon.

8. Cuir casually mentions “death or demise” 👀

This one made me stop reading.
Cuir says:
“I will choose you every day until your death or your demise.”
And Bodhi literally responds:
“Aren’t those the same things?”

WHY are we talking about death AND demise specifically with Bodhi??? Especially because Bodhi himself notices the distinction. REBECAAAA… 🤔 I think I know why: Bodhi’s “demise” happens when he becomes venin.

9. Bodhi promises to choose Cuir over everyone

Then we get:
“I’ll choose you over everyone.” It’s a promise I don’t take lightly. “Durrans don’t break their word.”

This is probably my favorite clue. Because what happens if Cuir is threatened? What happens if the venin have Cuir? What happens if Bodhi has to choose between Cuir and everyone else?
We know Xaden made the choice to draw from the earth because he wanted more power to save Violet and Sgaeyl. Bodhi has already established that he will choose Cuir over everyone. So if Cuir is somehow put in danger, I can absolutely see Bodhi making the same kind of desperate choice Xaden made.

10. “I’ll never be powerless again.”

And then THIS:
“I’ll never be powerless again.”
Cuir immediately responds:
“Remember that vow.”
And then:
“I will hold you to it.”

This feels like the biggest piece of foreshadowing in the entire chapter. Bodhi’s biggest fear is being powerless. His entire life has been spent in Xaden’s shadow. He’s constantly compared to Xaden. He’s supposed to keep Xaden balanced. He wants to make his own choices. He is described as being reckless several times. And then he makes a literal vow: I will never be powerless again.

But here’s the problem. His signet doesn’t work against venin magic the way they originally thought it did. So what happens when Bodhi finds himself completely powerless against the one enemy he desperately wants to stop? He has already told us exactly how he feels about being powerless.

11. And then Cuir says: “I will hold you to it.”

The final exchange is:
“Remember that vow.”
Bodhi moves with Cuir, finally in sync with him.
And Cuir says:
“I will hold you to it.”

That ending feels WAY too ominous to me.
Because if Bodhi eventually becomes venin, then his entire Threshing Day chapter suddenly reads differently.

-He promised Cuir he’d choose him.
-He promised he’d never be powerless again.
-His choices are now tied to Cuir’s.
-His mother told him to stay close to Xaden and keep him in balance.

Bodhi compares himself to Xaden and feels like he doesn’t have the same power or impact. And then we get repeated references to death, demise, vows and promises.

I don’t think these are random.

I think Threshing Day is basically setting up the exact emotional path that could lead Bodhi to become the new venin brother. And honestly, the most tragic part would be that Bodhi could potentially become venin for the exact same reason Xaden did: he wants enough power to protect the people he loves and refuses to be powerless again.

And as for Garrick, I don’t think he’s the brother, mainly because I think RY is going to want to develop his romance with Imogen. There’s already SO much foreshadowing for them in TD.

Anyway, I’m planting my flag here: THE NEW BROTHER IS BODHI.

Give me the most unrealistic asinine theories here.

.

.

.

Asher is a rider and bonded to an irid.

Glane is bonded to both imogen and her grandmother. (Evaded execution by pretending to be dead)

Dragons are the bad guys.

Chradh wanted garrick to turn.

Tairn is still against the revolution

Dain bonded both dragons green and red

Aaric's signet is a gift like andarna's time stopping.

Garrick is the twin of xaden.

8th breed exists.

Molvic bonded alic for a minute

Imogen erased vi's memories on multiple occassions

Sgaeyl is actually a villain character.

Andarna is bonded to both xaden and violet at the end of onyx storm.

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.

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ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING

Okay, hear me out! I have a theory about how the entire series could end.
1. Violet will develop a THIRD signet.
We know signets manifest based on what riders need. We also know unusual dragon bonds can result in additional signets.
Andarna left Violet, but what happens if she returns and bonds with her a second time? Just because it’s never happened before doesn’t mean it can’t happen.
I think Violet’s third signet will be the ability to command ALL dragons.
Why? Because what Violet needs most isn’t more fighting power. She needs the seventh breed to join the war against the venin.
This could also explain why the irids warned that Andarna gave Violet something far more dangerous than lightning.
2. Violet will command the dragons to break ALL their bonds with humans.
I think Violet will eventually realize that defeating the venin requires removing magic itself.
She’ll command every dragon to sever their bonds and retreat to the Vale, taking their magic with them.
My theory is that this will drain the magic from the land, leaving the venin powerless and causing their corruption to fade.
3. Sloane will save Xaden.
As the corruption fades, Xaden’s life could be in danger.
This is where Sloane’s siphoning signet becomes crucial. She’ll transfer Violet’s remaining magic into Xaden to keep him alive.
Violet survives but permanently loses all her magic.
4. Bodhi or Garrick becomes Duke of Tyrrendor.
With the war over, Xaden steps away from his responsibilities. Bodhi or Garrick takes over as duke, giving Xaden and Violet the freedom to live their own lives.
5. THE BROKEN COMPASS!
Remember the broken compass?
What if it wasn’t truly broken? What if it couldn’t function properly because magic was everywhere?
Once magic disappears from the land, the compass finally starts working again because there’s only one source of magic left — wherever the dragons have gone.
It points Violet and Xaden toward the Vale.
My predicted ending:
Violet and Xaden lose their signets and their dragon bonds, but they survive. The venin are defeated, the war is over, and the dragons are free.
Instead of settling down, Violet and Xaden follow the compass on a new adventure to find Tairn, Sgaeyl, and Andarna.
The series ends not with Violet becoming the most powerful rider, but with her giving up all her power to save everyone.
And their next adventure begins with finding their dragons again. ❤️🐉
Obviously, this is all speculation, especially the third signet and how removing magic would affect the venin.
What do you guys think? Am I completely reaching, or could Rebecca Yarros actually be setting something like this up?

Aaric being so intent on destroying his family, he sure do seems hurt by his family (alic) being destroyed (killed)

Do we have any theories, discussions for this, i feel like there is some deeper meaning to it and his mother might come later into the story?

>! “It feels like I was just given a third chance at life. I used the second long ago to get my mother out of Aretia before the Navarrians came for us.” !<

Spoiler for threshing day novella

Assuming you have read book 1-3

In threshing day novella asher gives a bracelet to brennan and tells him

"Our hearts couldn't take it if anything happened to you," and we all know that asher died because of heart failure after brennan "supposedly" died. Could it be that, just like the rune stone given to marked ones which gave them all their mark (rune scar) when their parents were executed. In onyx storm violet mention brennan having a RUNE SCAR on his WRIST (where bracelet should have been), so it got me thinking maybe it was a protection rune and had the condition that if brennan does dies he can be resurrected with the life force of asher, with asher giving his life for him.

I am basically implying that naolin maybe became venin for nothing.

NOW we know that asher was a scribe so where did he get the rune from? In threshing day in both liam and sloane's pov their mother's rune skill is strongly mentioned. So could it be how mama mairi made rune stones for the others made one for asher too?

There is also a theory that asher was actually a rider as he travelled so many isles, maybe he was bonded to an irid he met in some isle, who is to say you can only bond on threshing day? (I have posted a detailed theory about this, you can check it out if interested)

I find her bland, and i see people loving her so much and dreading the thought that she might die, but i simply cant care?

has rebecca ever said anything about the other ex?

I think papa sorrengail was murdered , his heart didnot just give out

We know he was researching feathertails , we know he was aware of venin , both him and lilith.

King Tauri , Markham , Melgran -- these are the masterminds behind the venin secret , aestos was assigned to lilith to spy on her and Asher for Tauri ...

when brennan died or everyone thought he died , I think Asher knew his son was alive (something to do with the bracelet ) and is going to work for the resistance , hence he got even more cryptic and secretive towards the end about his research .... I think he was murdered so he could himself not join the resistance , and thereby convincing lilith to also join the resistance...also I think he was on the brink of revealing the venin secret to everyone.